[Free Podcast] So Many Insane Plays # 42: Dragons of Tarkir Set Review

[Smmenen]

http://www.eternalcentral.com/so-many-insane-plays-podcast-episode-42-life-the-universe-and-dragons-of-tarkir/

Kevin Cron and Steve Menendian discuss life, the Universe, and Dragons of Tarkir for Vintage.

Podcast (somanyinsaneplays): Download (Duration: 2:04:35 — 118.0MB)

0:00:00: Announcements
0:04:43: Vintage Super League
0:13:20: Fate Reforged Report Card
0:17:53: Dragons of Tarkir: Mechanics and Themes
0:23:32: Myth Realized
0:35:48: Stratus Dancer
0:38:48: Rending Volley
0:41:34: Dromoka’s Command
0:46:05: Narset Transcendent
0:56:58: Sarkhan, Unbroken
1:00:23: Living Lore
1:08:41: Display of Dominance
1:10:42: Kolaghan’s Command
1:18:15: Commune with Lava & Damnable Pact
1:22:10: Virulent Plague
1:33:36: Dragon Whisperer
1:35:28: Hedonist’s Trove
1:45:29: Life, the Universe, and Everything (Vintage)
Show Notes

[MaximumCDawg]

Good show, as always!

Hedonist's Trove

This episode of SMIP really sounded like you folks were using TheManaDrain's General Discussion forum as show notes!  Not that I mind -- your show gets the analysis out there to a wider audience.  However, I already answered your show question in the thread I had on the subject.  I agree with Kevin that at 3 mana Trove's effect is utterly busted.  At 4, it gets out of range of most decks for the early game and it's not good anymore.

In Vintage you will realistically share colors and strategies with your opponent a lot of the time.  If you drop this on turn 2 or 3 you are likely to get at least a few fetchlands you can use to develop your own manabase, cantrips, or perhaps even early game removal of countermagic.  This card then functions like a little mini Demonic Tutor + Howling Mine for you for some number of turns, and that's really good.  

Narset

I'm a little surprised to hear Steve so down on Narset after he was so positive on Kiora.  Narset seems vastly superior to Kiora in terms of raw power, return on your mana investment, and position in the Vintage metagame.  Nothing I would say about her that Kevin didn't already say in the podcast!

Myth Realized

While everything you said about this card is true, I think most of it is not relevant.  The real big question about Myth is this: Can vertical growth actually be good anymore?  If so, Myth is awesome.  If not, then it sucks.  Given that even Tarmogoyf sees no Vintage play at the moment, I suspect that we really are past the point of vertical growth being playable.  That's very strange, but it might be true.  

[CHA1N5]

Thanks for the feedback!

 I agree with Kevin that at 3 mana Trove's effect is utterly busted.  At 4, it gets out of range of most decks for the early game and it's not good anymore.

I think you may be either misunderstanding or misremembering my position: I think that Trove is only debatably playable at 3.

[MaximumCDawg]

Thanks for the feedback!

 I agree with Kevin that at 3 mana Trove's effect is utterly busted.  At 4, it gets out of range of most decks for the early game and it's not good anymore.

I think you may be either misunderstanding or misremembering my position: I think that Trove is only debatably playable at 3.

Ah, sorry.  In any event,  paying three mana for the potential card advantage alone seems to stack up well against thirst,  so it seems quite powerful to me.   The splash hate against dredge is weak but nice to have in that Matchup.

[CHA1N5]

Ah, sorry.  In any event,  paying three mana for the potential card advantage alone seems to stack up well against thirst,  so it seems quite powerful to me.   The splash hate against dredge is weak but nice to have in that Matchup.

Which illustrates my point: Thirst is only being played in Grixis and Bomberman (and not always), and in both cases the graveyard synergy is one of the important use cases.  I think those decks are logical homes for such an effect, but it's a debatable inclusion at 3 mana and I think only some people would choose to use it.

[Hrishi]

I'm sorry if this comes off as harsh. I enjoy listening to these podcasts, but I can't help but feel that when the only subjects you cover in these podcasts is set reviews for the most part, is incredibly wasteful. I feel like it would be much better if you covered other aspects of Vintage like how the metagame is shaping up or looking at recent paper vintage results and such. While it was still interesting to hear your thoughts on the new set, I feel like a lot of this discussion is usually done on various forums and it does not need to have so much time dedicated to it on the show. Analyzing the metagame and such is something that cannot be found anywhere else, while set reviews can.

Basically, it feels like plenty of these cards will never actually see play and it's incredibly wasteful to dedicate so much time on the show towards them. I enjoyed some of your earlier shows where you talked about vintage tactics, the vintage metagame and even B&R considerations so much more. Of late, the only podcasts that come out are when the bulk of the time is dedicated to set reviews! Once again, I apologize if this comes off as harsh. I do enjoy the show a lot and I hope you will simply take this as feedback.

[MaximumCDawg]

Analyzing the metagame and such is something that cannot be found anywhere else, while set reviews can.

This would be true, except that there are no other Vintage-specific podcasts I'm aware of.  I'm sick of set reviewers who refer to Standard, Modern, and Legacy as the entirety of Magic and I appreciate a Vintage perspective on new sets. 

I think what you're really getting at is that SMIP needs to update MORE OFTEN.  The percentage of the time they spend on set reviews is high because sets come out frequently and they update about as frequently.  We need more Vintage metagame / Vintage scenarios shows to fill the gaps between them. 

How about you guys do a call-in or mail show on the off-weeks?  Something where you can kind of shoot from the hip for an hour without doing a ton of prep and just answer questions about the metagame or analyze scenarios for fun?

[CHA1N5]

It's true.  I want to record more often, too.  We'll try.

[Smmenen]

Analyzing the metagame and such is something that cannot be found anywhere else, while set reviews can.

This would be true, except that there are no other Vintage-specific podcasts I'm aware of.  I'm sick of set reviewers who refer to Standard, Modern, and Legacy as the entirety of Magic and I appreciate a Vintage perspective on new sets. 

Even more than that, there has long been a demand for "professional" set reviews.  A couple of years ago, I stopped writing/publishing them, despite the demand, simply because I think this venue is easier and covers most of the same material.  The downside is you can't do decklists as easy.  But the upside is you get more dialogue/perspectives, even if the analysis isn't quite as deep. 

We will try to do more 'shorter' topic podcasts in the future.  I've proposed to Kevin that we do a podcast just on Gitaxian Probe next. 

[nedleeds]

You kept referencing morphling.de, which while it has nostalgic value isn't as updated as

http://www.tcdecks.net/formato.php?format=Vintage

It's almost a full event behind, with the latest LCV not being posted one of the more important paper vintage events out there

http://www.mtgtop8.com/format?f=VI

Isn't as comprehensive with paper vintage but does include MODO results which might be interesting to look at for some people

[CHA1N5]

Thanks, nedleeds: I do think we should be exploring other options.

[TheMonadNomad]

I really enjoyed the set review personally.  For myself though, I like that there are only a few cards that make the cut in the format from most sets.  It's a lot less to have to keep up with and I don't have to continuously rebuild my decks every month.

[msg67183]

I'd like to point out that Display of Dominance can be used in Oath to fend off Abrupt Decay. Still a fringe card but I figured I would point that out.

[CHA1N5]

I'd like to point out that Display of Dominance can be used in Oath to fend off Abrupt Decay. Still a fringe card but I figured I would point that out.

Good call.

[thecrav]

The fact that there are so few cards worth discussing in this set made this cast really interesting. At first I was disappointed that there wouldn't be much to hear but I was delighted to see that the lack of depth in the new cards resulted in more time to have a deep discussion on each one. Keep up the good work, guys!

We will try to do more 'shorter' topic podcasts in the future.  I've proposed to Kevin that we do a podcast just on Gitaxian Probe next. 

Probe would be a super interesting first card to do this with but I think it would be a lot more discussion than a "shorter" topic podcast.

You kept referencing morphling.de, which while it has nostalgic value isn't as updated as
...

Thirded.

[diophan]

http://www.mtgtop8.com/format?f=VI

Isn't as comprehensive with paper vintage but does include MODO results which might be interesting to look at for some people

I would suggest using mtggoldfish instead, since mtgtop8 seems to be missing a large number of results. For instance, my online decks have appeared 8 times on mtggoldfish and only 3 on mtgtop8.

[brianpk80]

The more podcasts, the merrier.  I like the Set Review podcasts as they are; any expansion in content need not come at their expense.  

I'm not sure what the best database is for tournament results.  I was surprised to hear Tasigur had only one entry since I played 2 maindeck in the February TPG event and then the next day at 5D's in Wilkes-Barre with roughly the same list.  It was Grixis Gush Control with no Aurioks.  Over 50% of the field that Sunday was running Tasigur, between the Gush and Bomberman variations present.  There was also the large January event where Vasu Balakrishnan split first on Tasigur Bomberman.  I know in the past I've placed in events that end up having no trace of existence in these databases several times so an optimal way of aggregating data would be helpful for the Scorecard sections.

[diopter]

I think you don't owe us a damn thing - podcast about whatever you feel like, and if it's anything remotely related to Vintage, I'll listen.

Enjoyed the podcast and the thorough analytical approach taken.

[MaximumCDawg]

I think you don't owe us a damn thing

Of course they don't, but they should know that the demand is there for more podcasts that can improve their exposure and marketing opportunities (look'n at you, Steve, you prolific Magic writer you).  Squeaky wheel, and all that.

[diopter]

CDawg: indeed. So we could probably express that gentle suggestion to improve on this often-amazing and always-FREE content in a more respectful way than "your efforts are incredibly wasteful".

Obviously you didn't say that, but someone did... how off-putting, no matter how well-intentioned.

[Hrishi]

I'm sorry if this comes off as harsh.

I can't help but feel that when the only subjects you cover in these podcasts is set reviews for the most part, is incredibly wasteful.

I enjoyed some of your earlier shows where you talked about vintage tactics, the vintage metagame and even B&R considerations so much more.

I do enjoy the show a lot and I hope you will simply take this as feedback.

Seriously, there was nothing about my post that wasn't polite. I've met Kevin and he's a great guy. I've told him in person that I love the show. These are examples of good feedback that I feel would make it even better. Nobody besides you saw my post for anything other than what it was, honest and polite feedback.

podcast about whatever you feel like, and if it's anything remotely related to Vintage, I'll listen.

And this is an example of awful feedback.

[diopter]

Hrishi: sure, it was honest. Respectful? Nope.

It's one thing to say you didn't like the topic, and another thing to call the work done a waste because you didn't like it.

Here's the thing. There are maybe 2 Vintage podcasts that update 4 times a year? SMIP and Serious Vintage. Both are always amazing and always free.

Is there room for improvement? Sure.
Do we grovel at the feet of and lick the boots of the podcasters for their efforts? No, we are adults with pride.

But at the end of the day, it's in our best interest that these gents stay motivated to deliver this awesome free content, so maybe next time cut down on the snarky and demoralizing phrases like "incredibly wasteful".

[Hrishi]

podcast about whatever you feel like, and if it's anything remotely related to Vintage, I'll listen.

Do we grovel at the feet of and lick the boots of the podcasters for their efforts? No, we are adults with pride.

I see.

Additionally, my post was anything but snarky and demoralizing. Perhaps if you took your head out of your ass and read what I said, you would see it too. I didn't call their work a waste. I said that since they are, presumably, adults with full time commitments, their time is limited. A lot of that limited time goes into set reviews. I simply said that, in my opinion, it would be better to spread that time out to other topics. Using all that time in set reviews was a "wasteful" use of that limited time.

[diopter]

Hrishi: pithy.

Anyways, moving on to something constructive. Gitaxian Probe would be an interesting topic, and a related one might be Preordain. Are we getting to the point where Preordain is functioning like Brainstorm in that it can always catapult you into the correct role in the matchup?

Also, another cool topic might be like a top 5 of underused build-around cards. Remora? Burning Wish? Regrowth? Skullclamp?

[fsecco]

I enjoyed the show once again (and also would love to have you guys updating more often). But I do like the set reviews a lot, keep doing them!

I also would like to point out that you forgot a relevant token during Virulent Plague analysis: Batterskull. Doesn't kill it, but making it a 2/2 seems relevant.

About the question: Hedonist Trove would be awesome if it costed 3. You could run 2-4 and cast it as soon as turn 3 to get a few fetches or Preordains from your opponent. That alone is great. You could also have it as Dredge maindeck hate, and even against Workshops it seems amazing: you get wastelands to keep droping lands and even killing their Workshops and later you can even get Workshops on your end. I'd side them out game 2, probably, but game 1 they wouldn't be irrelevant.

[NosferatuStuff]

Just finished the podcast last night, great as always.  I actually sent you guys that email a while ago asking for the vintage scenarios so I'm all for bringing those back, and doing probe would be great.  Although I think, after playing about a million vintage games I think the card I REALLY want is the Mental Misstep podcast.  Should I misstep their misstep, when do I worry about flusterstorm, is the 2 life a consideration in certain match ups, should I ever pitch this to force of will?

Also, and these guys are great, but it doesn't seem like there is a shortage of consumption for vintage content.  Someone else could pick up a particular aspect of vintage and do a podcast all about the online format or building collections or the monthly metagame review.  If another player would spend 20 minutes a week going over metagame shifts and trends I'd listen to it as would others I'm sure. 

[MaximumCDawg]

Nosferatu, I think the problem is that there is a limitation on how many people are really QUALIFIED to do such a comprehensive report.  Not that many.  I mean, you could have people report on their own local metagame (which is what a certain other Vintage podcast does) or you could have someone read off what Morphling.de and other sites are reporting, but a truly global analysis of the metagame from someone skilled enough to give the report meaning is something not many people can credibly do.

Maybe we see rising stars on MTGO and this changes down the road?

[gribdogs]

I just finished the 'cast.  Very nice.  I'd also like to see these episodes release more frequently.

[Mr. Type 4]

Personally I like the set review podcasts the most, even if the verdict is that it's all unplayable dreck.

[data]

I, personally, find the set reviews helpful, because they save me time by focusing my thinking on a small number of cards.  Would love to hear more podcasts from you both, but not at the cost of set reviews.