[OGW] Wastes: Barry's Land is REAL?

[Aaron Patten]

Snow-covered Island is/was supported long term.  

[MaximumCDawg]

Why do you people think they are going to change the game and make it terrible over a handful of new cards?

I really don't think you are realizing the implications of what you are saying. 

Heck,  they do this kind of thing in modern times.   Remember "exile"?  "Dies"?  The color indicator?   They are not afraid to do mass eratta.

[gkraigher]

From my point of view, if they are going to make a new Basic they will have to support it long term. So I don't think it will be a handful of new cards.

That's a huge assumption.  Compare that to a bunch of future leaguers testing Kozielek, the Great Distortion and realizing it would be too good for Modern, then deciding to make him cost a colorless mana that cannot be produced by chromatic stars.  Then he is not a problem.  They care about Modern, they do not care further than that.  

If you can cash Kozilek with only Tron mana, then he is a huge problem. 

[Dice_Box]

I would argue that Ugin is more impactful than Kozilek will be and cheaper.

[vaughnbros]

I would argue that Ugin is more impactful than Kozilek will be and cheaper.

I'm not sure if they are completely comparable.  Draw 7 upon casting it is pretty insane.  Ugins board sweep is invaluable though.

[gkraigher]

draw 7, counter all spells you have by discarding.  It would be really strong, and much better than Ugin. 

[rikter]

draw 7, counter all spells you have by discarding.  It would be really strong, and much better than Ugin. 

Im curious as to how useful the countering spells aspect will be. I don't play modern, but in Legacy MUD the average CMC is just so much higher than a typical deck that the counterspell aspect is basically worthless. But perhaps the curves in tron are comparable to other decks in modern?

[Dice_Box]

They have a bunch of low cost cards they use to get online. But they have a concentrated spread. They could draw 4 cards, go to 7 in hand and still get Twined out with no answer.

Also, it's mostly going to take 5 lands to cast this. 10 mana is hard to reach on 4 mana.

[gkraigher]

4 and 5 CCs are the only ones missing in a lot of lists.

So 1, 2, 3, 6, 7, 8, and 10 are all covered. 

[Dice_Box]

They have 3 cards at CMC 3. A hard number to lock out. 1 and 2 they could manage though.

Anyway, we will see what happens but from my point of view, Tron is a match I don't even bother to side for (Jund) so if they get another toy I just lose faster. So what. Not that I come here to talk about Modern.

[Protoaddict]

Koz is good, but at 10 I do not think game breaking. There are so many other relevant things at that point in both tron modern and in vintage or even legacy reanimator decks. Tron is still going to run 7 and 8 mana threats like Karn and Ugin because they need stuff for earlier turns, Koz is likely win more in many of those matches.

The real potential power of the eldrazi mana cards are likely to be in the lower end cards that can now be cheated into play by other means. Sol Ring and mana crypt stock are going to go WAY up if this plays out like we suspect it could, and if there are any good low drop cards they potentially could be game altering. Imagine a deck that didn't want to play Moxen or lotus but maxed out on artifact ramp and sol lands? If it is a good list it potentially creates a new entry point into the format, much in the same way dredge was a "budget" deck without actually being built sub par?

It may be a pipe dream but I would love to live in a vintage where a tier one deck without power and dual/fetch bases are a viable option, perhaps this could be the next dredge.

[gkraigher]

Koz is good, but at 10 I do not think game breaking.

It would be in Modern on turn 4, which only requires 2 towers and the rest of tron by some people's suspicious math. 

It refills your hand and dominates the board while it's in play.

I only bring up Modern in context for how these cards will work in other eternal formats.  I know this is not a forum about Modern, but I think it's important to note when we are speculating about what this mana means. 

[tribet]

Me, I simply don't think that this new mana symbol is very elegant. All I see is <>. I find it hard to spot & read.
The eldrazi logo or something along these lines would have been nicer.
You know something with a bit more design into it. With a solid background, neat contours...

[ben_berry]

Something you can filter on in gatherer...

[vaughnbros]

Me, I simply don't think that this new mana symbol is very elegant. All I see is <>. I find it hard to spot & read.
The eldrazi logo or something along these lines would have been nicer.
You know something with a bit more design into it. With a solid background, neat contours...

The hedrons are the Eldrazi's prison not their logo.  I think we need to wait for judgement on what the mana and cost actually are before making a verdict on its elegance.

[TheWhiteDragon]

Koz is good, but at 10 I do not think game breaking.

It would be in Modern on turn 4, which only requires 2 towers and the rest of tron by some people's suspicious math. 

It refills your hand and dominates the board while it's in play.

I only bring up Modern in context for how these cards will work in other eternal formats.  I know this is not a forum about Modern, but I think it's important to note when we are speculating about what this mana means. 

When are we going to start a Modern Only forum?  I've asked about it before - and since many players are multi-format, this seems like the ideal site for it.  MODS, PLEASE START A MODERN FORUM!!!!  PLEASE!!!!

[zimagic]

Me, I simply don't think that this new mana symbol is very elegant. All I see is <>. I find it hard to spot & read.
The eldrazi logo or something along these lines would have been nicer.
You know something with a bit more design into it. With a solid background, neat contours...

The new logo is just the top half of the old logo as the BfZ was the broken Hedron to Zendikar/Worldwake's solid versions.

[Aaron Patten]

Sol Ring and mana crypt stock are going to go WAY up if this plays out like we suspect it could, and if there are any good low drop cards they potentially could be game altering.

If this were going to be the case then Blister Pod would have the new symbol.  The set is designed years in advance of release so there would be no reason for them to wait until set 2 to change the rules of the game in this way. 

[Dice_Box]

Don't know if it's real yet.

[vaughnbros]

Don't know if it's real yet.

It's on all the major spoiler sites. Nothing noticeably wrong with the card, correct set number, symbol foiling, new art.  It would be an extremely impressive fake if it is.

So I think this confirms that colorless mana now functions different in magic.  It can be used to pay for mana costs and abilities of colorless cards.  I'm not sure if this makes any old cards playable, but certainly a boost to cards like Memnarch and to the overall playability of this set.  It also gives more justification for the Devoid mechanic.

[fsecco]

It confirms nothing, since until now it's pure speculation. Mythic Spoiler states: "UNOFFICIAL MOCKUP"

Also, this art was already released, so it could easily have been used on photoshop. I mean, I really don't think this proves anything.

That said, if this is true I'll be very, very intrigued. Colorless would really be the 6th color into Magic and that's weird.

[bactgudz]

I don't think press printing reflects primary spectra like that, should be more of a blur...it looks very odd to me.  I would not buy a foil that looked like that off ebay.

Edit: yep...just looked at the other spoiled cards on salvation that are foils and they reflect light how I'd expect, this one does not. It is noticeably different.
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/the-rumor-mill/650868-oath-spoiler-ayil-eternal-pilgrim
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/the-rumor-mill/651638-new-green-red-legend-russian

and here is original art from PAX in August:
https://twitter.com/wizards_magic/status/638455196880867328
You can see there should not be foiling effects in those areas, they are simply different shades of sky and water.  What we have here is an office printer using various concentrations of magenta, cyan, and yellow and not typical mtg press printing.

[vaughnbros]

I don't think press printing reflects primary spectra like that, should be more of a blur...it looks very odd to me.  I would not buy a foil that looked like that off ebay.

Edit: yep...just looked at the other spoiled cards on salvation that are foils and they reflect light how I'd expect, this one does not. It is noticeably different.
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/the-rumor-mill/650868-oath-spoiler-ayil-eternal-pilgrim
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/the-rumor-mill/651638-new-green-red-legend-russian

and here is original art from PAX in August:
https://twitter.com/wizards_magic/status/638455196880867328
You can see there should not be foiling effects in those areas, they are simply different shades of sky and water.  What we have here is an office printer using various concentrations of magenta, cyan, and yellow and not typical mtg press printing.

This is an expidition land the foiling is supposed to be the same as FTV so it's supposed to look terrible compared to a normal foil lol.  The grayness and overall discoloring at this point could also be attributed to a bad camera.  Where I think you do have a good point is the already existing art, it seems this hasn't made its way onto a card yet, but was released for some reason earlier.  I will say it's very rare these spoiler sites are wrong, but I agree we can't be 100% certain yet.

edit: Here's an original expedition land under what looks to be a camera phone, equally terrible:

And the prerelease foil from the last set also seems to match the roiling on this prelease promo: (the date is also correct on this one)

[rpf5029]

Don't know if it's real yet.

It's on all the major spoiler sites. Nothing noticeably wrong with the card, correct set number, symbol foiling, new art.  It would be an extremely impressive fake if it is.

So I think this confirms that colorless mana now functions different in magic.  It can be used to pay for mana costs and abilities of colorless cards.  I'm not sure if this makes any old cards playable, but certainly a boost to cards like Memnarch and to the overall playability of this set.  It also gives more justification for the Devoid mechanic.

I don't see anything in this card that indicates that colorless mana functions any differently than it already does.  I also don't see how this gives [Sm]Memnarch a boost.  I think I see what you're getting at, but nothing released so far indicates that {<>} can override the color-required costs  on Devoid or colorless cards.

[bactgudz]

I don't think press printing reflects primary spectra like that, should be more of a blur...it looks very odd to me.  I would not buy a foil that looked like that off ebay.

Edit: yep...just looked at the other spoiled cards on salvation that are foils and they reflect light how I'd expect, this one does not. It is noticeably different.
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/the-rumor-mill/650868-oath-spoiler-ayil-eternal-pilgrim
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/the-rumor-mill/651638-new-green-red-legend-russian

and here is original art from PAX in August:
https://twitter.com/wizards_magic/status/638455196880867328
You can see there should not be foiling effects in those areas, they are simply different shades of sky and water.  What we have here is an office printer using various concentrations of magenta, cyan, and yellow and not typical mtg press printing.

This is an expidition land the foiling is supposed to be the same as FTV so it's supposed to look terrible compared to a normal foil lol.  The grayness and overall discoloring at this point could also be attributed to a bad camera.  Where I think you do have a good point is the already existing art, it seems this hasn't made its way onto a card yet, but was released for some reason earlier.  I will say it's very rare these spoiler sites are wrong, but I agree we can't be 100% certain yet.

edit: Here's an original expedition land under what looks to be a camera phone, equally terrible:[snip]
And the prerelease foil from the last set also seems to match the roiling on this prelease promo: [snip] (the date is also correct on this one)

4chan, the original source, has fake cards all the time.  There was a fake Oath Goblin Guide that made it just as far as this has just about a week ago.
It's not about being terrible..its about reflecting 3 distinct wavelengths of light in a small area of the landscape that is simply a shading of the same color in the art.  Bad lighting doesn't make for bad physics. Your expeditions don't do that.

[MaximumCDawg]

I don't see anything in this card that indicates that colorless mana functions any differently than it already does.  I also don't see how this gives [Sm]Memnarch a boost.  I think I see what you're getting at, but nothing released so far indicates that {<>} can override the color-required costs  on Devoid or colorless cards.

Yeah, you're correct.  Using <> doesn't change a lick about old cards.  It just cleans up the ambiguity.  If that card is correct -- and it would be a genius way to cement the new symbol in the minds of players, since those lands are in high demand -- then all it means is:

= One mana of any or no color.  Used only in COSTS.
<> = One colorless mana, specifically.

That's all.  It's simple, elegant, allows for new design space, and is super easy to swallow as errata on all cards that produced colorless mana.

[Aaron Patten]

That Mystic Gate sure looks suspicious. 

[MaximumCDawg]

That Mystic Gate sure looks suspicious. 

Maybe, but the good folks at MTGSalvation are usually all over these kind of fakes.  Finding the artwork online somewhere is a good indication.  So far, nothing is coming up...

[vaughnbros]

I don't see anything in this card that indicates that colorless mana functions any differently than it already does.  I also don't see how this gives [Sm]Memnarch a boost.  I think I see what you're getting at, but nothing released so far indicates that {<>} can override the color-required costs  on Devoid or colorless cards.

Well we can definitely rule out a form of snow mana though.  They aren't going to be errating snow mana onto old cards.

Technically all the cards including Barry's land are unconfirmed so far, and could be removed.  This doesn't make it any less interesting to discuss in my opinion.

Its about reflecting 3 distinct wavelengths of light in a small area of the landscape that is simply a shading of the same color in the art.  Bad lighting doesn't make for bad physics. Your expeditions don't do that

Ok I'll bite.  What law of physics says this is impossible?

[bactgudz]

I don't see anything in this card that indicates that colorless mana functions any differently than it already does.  I also don't see how this gives [Sm]Memnarch a boost.  I think I see what you're getting at, but nothing released so far indicates that {<>} can override the color-required costs  on Devoid or colorless cards.

Well we can definitely rule out a form of snow mana though.  They aren't going to be errating snow mana onto old cards.

Technically all the cards including Barry's land are unconfirmed so far, and could be removed.  This doesn't make it any less interesting to discuss in my opinion.

Its about reflecting 3 distinct wavelengths of light in a small area of the landscape that is simply a shading of the same color in the art.  Bad lighting doesn't make for bad physics. Your expeditions don't do that

Ok I'll bite.  What law of physics says this is impossible?

The quantization of light.  You have something there that absorbs light and reemits photons with those discrete energies under those lighting conditions.  I do not believe that pattern is consistent with the ink used on magic cards where you have different colors of ink next to each other at the pixel level in a dot pattern in close proximity shading, you will see the result of the blended spectra.  It is consistent with deskjet printer ink on an overlay or blanked foil where colors of ink are layered on top of each other to produce different shadings, you will see the dominant spectra in each area.