Free Article - Vintage 101: Power Nine Challenge 2.0

[Islandswamp]

Islandswamp discusses the Magic Online Power Nine Challenge results and metagame!

http://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles/vintage-101-power-nine-challenge-2-0


Enjoy it  

[youhavenogame]

Your link leads to nowhere I guess you added the "f" by accident? Anyway, this is the right link for everyone not familiar with mtggoldfish: http://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles/vintage-101-power-nine-challenge-2-0

Also, question to Rich Shay or whoever created his decklist: how did the 2 Sylvan Library end up working out? I tried Library in Vintage but never was too happy with it, re-arranging cards is fine but rarely impressive and 4 life to draw extra cards is more than it seems at first, especially without Dromoka in play. I haven't tested the deck yet, but I'm generally sceptical and umimpressed if it comes to Sylvan Library. Also, just 3 Preordain? I can't help myself, but it looks suboptimal.

@IslandSwamp:
You should consider to check out the original sources for decks. Goldfish is a good place to find decks, but their coverage lacks. For some reason they cut off a round off the P9 Challenge, as it probably was 7 rounds and the decks you list as "didn't make it on breaks" are x-1, and we all know that x-1 never misses (unless you talk about the early MOCS tournaments, where a lot of people had up to 3 byes and the number of rounds didn't reflect that).

@Metagame:
Sadly I'm unable to attend myself these days, but I really enjoy the latest online metagame since the restriction of Chalice. There are a couple of totally new, never seen before decks as well as interesting twists on old mainstays. I wonder if Storm will have a great comeback, or if people find efficient answers for it

[lizardking1545]

Did any of the better known players stream their matches?

[Leoj]

Rich Shay streamed his matches. You can find the video here: http://www.twitch.tv/richshay/b/683472804

[The Atog Lord]

Leo, thanks for the link. If anyone knows how to stop Twitch from deleting my old streams, or how to send them to YouTube, please let me know.

Also, question to Rich Shay or whoever created his decklist: how did the 2 Sylvan Library end up working out? I tried Library in Vintage but never was too happy with it, re-arranging cards is fine but rarely impressive and 4 life to draw extra cards is more than it seems at first, especially without Dromoka in play. I haven't tested the deck yet, but I'm generally sceptical and umimpressed if it comes to Sylvan Library. Also, just 3 Preordain? I can't help myself, but it looks suboptimal.

Sylvan Library is the bee's knees. It's just that good. It's so good, in fact that, I am playing Green over Red. Red provides Red Blasts, Dack Fayden, Lightning Bolt, and better artifact removal. All of these strong arguments for playing Red. But I'm not even considering playing Red over Green. Why? Because of Sylvan Library. Sylvan Library is absurdly good right now. It's a combination of Ancestral Vision with Suspend 1 and a Sensei's Divining Top that pays for itself. Go ahead and try it. I think you'll see what I mean.

[dangerlinto]

Leo, thanks for the link. If anyone knows how to stop Twitch from deleting my old streams, or how to send them to YouTube, please let me know.

Also, question to Rich Shay or whoever created his decklist: how did the 2 Sylvan Library end up working out? I tried Library in Vintage but never was too happy with it, re-arranging cards is fine but rarely impressive and 4 life to draw extra cards is more than it seems at first, especially without Dromoka in play. I haven't tested the deck yet, but I'm generally sceptical and umimpressed if it comes to Sylvan Library. Also, just 3 Preordain? I can't help myself, but it looks suboptimal.

Sylvan Library is the bee's knees. It's just that good. It's so good, in fact that, I am playing Green over Red. Red provides Red Blasts, Dack Fayden, Lightning Bolt, and better artifact removal. All of these strong arguments for playing Red. But I'm not even considering playing Red over Green. Why? Because of Sylvan Library. Sylvan Library is absurdly good right now. It's a combination of Ancestral Vision with Suspend 1 and a Sensei's Divining Top that pays for itself. Go ahead and try it. I think you'll see what I mean.

It took me some time to start figuring out which situations is advisable to just pay the 4/8 life, but it turns out it more than I thought.  In a number of matchups, that life is close to meaningless.

My build is only very slightly different from Brian Kelly's and yours, in that 1) I hate Gitaxian Probe 2) I really, really like Stony Silence in the deck.

One change I'm looking at it is Aegis of the Gods in the sideboard.  Storm decks rarely have a method to remove him and taking Tendrils out of the equation really helps. 

[Leoj]

Leo, thanks for the link. If anyone knows how to stop Twitch from deleting my old streams, or how to send them to YouTube, please let me know.

If you go into your account settings, on the Connections tab you can link your YouTube account to Twitch. Then, when you view one of your previous broadcasts and click the gear icon, it should give you the option to export your video to YouTube.

[brianpk80]

One of the main reasons Sylvan Library is so good is that the format is infested with Mental Missteps, Flusterstorm, Pyroblasts, Bolts/Plows/Paths (strikes against Jace, Vryn and Bob) and Phyrexian Revokers.  Sylvan Library is the hardest source of CA to counter, remove, and disrupt.  It's the best non-restricted card in the deck.  The only reason we don't play three or four is because it is bad in multiples and fills the deck with too many cards that we'd draw into (with Gush for instance) that are inoperable without passing the turn.  Two has been the proven sweet spot.  Hopefully that helps. 

One change I'm looking at it is Aegis of the Gods in the sideboard.  Storm decks rarely have a method to remove him and taking Tendrils out of the equation really helps.

Definitely a great call.  Rich and I were both running Aegis for some time in the sideboard.  I've always kept him on board since Tendrils-era Vintage was so traumatizing and Rich made a metagame call that was more punishing to artifact based decks than Ritual lists.  After the P9 challenge this weekend, I would not be surprised to see Aegis the holy grail of all Storm hate back in action.  That he doubles as Oath hate and gives you options against rogue strategies running Intuition/Gifts Ungiven or one of those random Vintage.Burn decks that show up somewhere every once in a while (really, they do) is icing. 

[dangerlinto]

One of the main reasons Sylvan Library is so good is that the format is infested with Mental Missteps, Flusterstorm, Pyroblasts, Bolts/Plows/Paths (strikes against Jace, Vryn and Bob) and Phyrexian Revokers.  Sylvan Library is the hardest source of CA to counter, remove, and disrupt.  It's the best non-restricted card in the deck.  The only reason we don't play three or four is because it is bad in multiples and fills the deck with too many cards that we'd draw into (with Gush for instance) that are inoperable without passing the turn.  Two has been the proven sweet spot.  Hopefully that helps. 

One thing I will say, having watched someone's lack of reading (and or comprehension, I guess) was watch out for Notion thief.  You have to say "no" to the library ability.  Those were the best two free cards ever.  Followed quickly by a conceding window.

Definitely a great call.  Rich and I were both running Aegis for some time in the sideboard.  I've always kept him on board since Tendrils-era Vintage was so traumatizing and Rich made a metagame call that was more punishing to artifact based decks than Ritual lists.  After the P9 challenge this weekend, I would not be surprised to see Aegis the holy grail of all Storm hate back in action.  That he doubles as Oath hate and gives you options against rogue strategies running Intuition/Gifts Ungiven or one of those random Vintage.Burn decks that show up somewhere every once in a while (really, they do) is icing. 

Actually I'm also really in favour of how good it is vs the versions of Mentor that run Cabal Therapy.

[CHaPuZaS]

Did any of the better known players stream their matches?

I've streamed those events in Twitch, but it ends up deleting them. The next day or so I upload them to YouTube. You'll find the P9 Challenge of October (3rd position) here and the P9 Challenge of October (13rd position) here, both playing TezzCast.

Leo, thanks for the link. If anyone knows how to stop Twitch from deleting my old streams, or how to send them to YouTube, please let me know.

Apparte from what Leoj says, I use to record them in my hard drive while streaming, Which program do you use to stream? It should have an option for it, then I upload it to my YouTube channel. This way I can correct and connect the stream video in the case it stops somewhen with programs such as Sony Vegas Pro. If you need further info PM me, it is very easy, though more time effort.

[Islandswamp]

Your link leads to nowhere I guess you added the "f" by accident? Anyway, this is the right link for everyone not familiar with mtggoldfish: http://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles/vintage-101-power-nine-challenge-2-0

Thanks for adding that, I've fixed the link in my original post.

Usually MTGGoldfish has the best info you can get. WotC doesn't publish everything, but MTGGoldfish is able to catalog a lot of info. I assumed that they had the right number of rounds. Still, I think my point is Valid. A well-built Workshop deck could do well in this environment. A lot of the issue I think is that the looming specter of chalice made some decks choose to play different cards, and some decks were just not being played much at all. A talented Workshop builder could do some real damage to a field full of Storm.

[Islandswamp]

One of the main reasons Sylvan Library is so good is that the format is infested with Mental Missteps, Flusterstorm, Pyroblasts, Bolts/Plows/Paths (strikes against Jace, Vryn and Bob) and Phyrexian Revokers.  Sylvan Library is the hardest source of CA to counter, remove, and disrupt.  It's the best non-restricted card in the deck.  The only reason we don't play three or four is because it is bad in multiples and fills the deck with too many cards that we'd draw into (with Gush for instance) that are inoperable without passing the turn.  Two has been the proven sweet spot.  Hopefully that helps. 

One change I'm looking at it is Aegis of the Gods in the sideboard.  Storm decks rarely have a method to remove him and taking Tendrils out of the equation really helps.

I've been toying around with the idea of playing Sylvan Library in my BUG Oath build, and you're making me thing it's might be a great idea for me.
Definitely a great call.  Rich and I were both running Aegis for some time in the sideboard.  I've always kept him on board since Tendrils-era Vintage was so traumatizing and Rich made a metagame call that was more punishing to artifact based decks than Ritual lists.  After the P9 challenge this weekend, I would not be surprised to see Aegis the holy grail of all Storm hate back in action.  That he doubles as Oath hate and gives you options against rogue strategies running Intuition/Gifts Ungiven or one of those random Vintage.Burn decks that show up somewhere every once in a while (really, they do) is icing. 

[serracollector]

Are there enough good enchantments besides Aegis and Sylvan to warrant running Argothian Enchantress? It gets around all the singleton removal and most counters. Maybe with Seals (green and blue or white) and even Fastbond and Coursers alongside Gush?

[Smmenen]

Did any of the better known players stream their matches?

I've streamed those events in Twitch, but it ends up deleting them. The next day or so I upload them to YouTube. You'll find the P9 Challenge of October (3rd position) here and the P9 Challenge of October (13rd position) here, both playing TezzCast.

Leo, thanks for the link. If anyone knows how to stop Twitch from deleting my old streams, or how to send them to YouTube, please let me know.

Apparte from what Leoj says, I use to record them in my hard drive while streaming, Which program do you use to stream? It should have an option for it, then I upload it to my YouTube channel. This way I can correct and connect the stream video in the case it stops somewhen with programs such as Sony Vegas Pro. If you need further info PM me, it is very easy, though more time effort.

I believe there is a way to archive twitch streams *on twitch* before they expire.  I've done this in the past.  

[CHaPuZaS]

I believe there is a way to archive twitch streams *on twitch* before they expire.  I've done this in the past.  

OK, confirmed. I knew there was a way, but somehow I thought they were being deleted. Due to a bug I couldn't see my old streams, but I can now see all of my past broadcasts in my Highlight area. EDIT: I still enter there and see a month of streams, but clicking "Past streams" and then "highlights" again all of them are there. Is this just happening to me or is it a global bug?

Rich, what you have to do is enable to "automatically archive your broadcasts", this way they are going to be saved for a time. Then, once you finish streaming all you have to do is "highlight" all of the stream (or the part you want), and thye'll be saved forever. You can't do anything with those already deleted though. You'll find further info here.

[The Atog Lord]

Great. Thanks, folks.

[Islandswamp]

Thanks to everyone for your support. This and the last few articles did very well, so things will continue! There seems to be an ever-growing interest in Vintage both online and in paper, and that's the most important thing to me.


As far as these large events go, I really am sad that I haven't been able to play in one yet. My attendance in tournaments has dwindled down quite a bit, and all I've been able to do is play practice matches. That said, I'm super happy that these and other events seem to be firing without a hitch. I feel better about missing an event when I know that it succeeded.

One of the main points of my article (in my opinion at least) is that Workshops are down and people seem not be worried about the match up anymore. This is the first time since I had my Vintage collection that I've seen that many Ritual Storm decks in the queues.

[CHaPuZaS]

One of the main points of my article (in my opinion at least) is that Workshops are down and people seem not be worried about the match up anymore.

Not sure about this. The restriction of Chalice opens the gate for Ritual based decks to be again an strong part of the metagame, however, Workshop decks are still able to resolve a Lodestone Golem or a pair of spheres to shut down a game. At least I still care a lot about them. My performance in tournaments is related to the amount of Workshop hate in my sideboard, Ritual based decks are easier to fight for Tezzeret decks.

[Islandswamp]

One of the main points of my article (in my opinion at least) is that Workshops are down and people seem not be worried about the match up anymore.

Not sure about this. The restriction of Chalice opens the gate for Ritual based decks to be again an strong part of the metagame, however, Workshop decks are still able to resolve a Lodestone Golem or a pair of spheres to shut down a game. At least I still care a lot about them. My performance in tournaments is related to the amount of Workshop hate in my sideboard, Ritual based decks are easier to fight for Tezzeret decks.

Maybe I'm over-simplifying it. When the various kinds of Workshop decks were more than 50% of the online metagame it makes sense that Storm wasn't doing well. Of course CoTV was great in that match up, but one of the strengths of Workshop decks in my opinion are their redundancy. There's still a lot left in the deck that's terrible for Storm.

You're smart to have a strong anti-workshops SB. Seems like you're also very good with that deck too 

[youhavenogame]

Thanks for the insight on Sylvan Library. As the metagame is right now I can see all points you have made. Can't wait to get some practice in with the deck, as it looks so intriguing (+ <3 Dromoka - probably the card that impressed me the most in the last months, so good and so hard to deal with).

[dangerlinto]

Thanks for the insight on Sylvan Library. As the metagame is right now I can see all points you have made. Can't wait to get some practice in with the deck, as it looks so intriguing (+ <3 Dromoka - probably the card that impressed me the most in the last months, so good and so hard to deal with).

I've played at least 3 dozen games with the deck and have never once played Dromoka.  Could just be bad luck but it's obviously there for the mirror but i never seem to draw it in the mirror or the game is just over before I an muster 6 mana - especially if I need to gush on turn 3/4.  Essentially, I've never randomly Libraried/Recall/Cruised/Diged into both Lotus and Dromoka on turn 3/4.  Everytime I see dromoka either I've used the lotus already or I'd tried to find away to shuffle it back.

Great card - works randomly.  For it to not be so, the deck needs Crypt/Sol Ring to get there, but that has it's own issues in a deck that likes to main deck Stony Silence.

[ObstinateFamiliar]

Thanks for the insight on Sylvan Library. As the metagame is right now I can see all points you have made. Can't wait to get some practice in with the deck, as it looks so intriguing (+ <3 Dromoka - probably the card that impressed me the most in the last months, so good and so hard to deal with).

I've played at least 3 dozen games with the deck and have never once played Dromoka.  Could just be bad luck but it's obviously there for the mirror but i never seem to draw it in the mirror or the game is just over before I an muster 6 mana - especially if I need to gush on turn 3/4.  Essentially, I've never randomly Libraried/Recall/Cruised/Diged into both Lotus and Dromoka on turn 3/4.  Everytime I see dromoka either I've used the lotus already or I'd tried to find away to shuffle it back.

Great card - works randomly.  For it to not be so, the deck needs Crypt/Sol Ring to get there, but that has it's own issues in a deck that likes to main deck Stony Silence.

I don't mean to be down on Dromoka, but it's a one-of in a deck with no tutors or other way of finding it outside of the usual draw spells. Let's be honest, you could replace it with an uno card and the deck would still work just fine because the shell is solid.  I can see how it could be an integral part of something like the salvagers oath deck (since oath lets you pseudo-tutor for it) but in this case it's just a fun-of finisher as far as I can tell.

Again, I'm not trying to trash the card (windmilling 6 drop dragons in vintage is sweet no matter what anyone says), but I do think it's important to realize the difference between a critical component (say Sylvan Library) and a flex slot / finisher. 

Disclaimer: I didn't build the deck and will defer to Brian, Rich, etc. if they feel I'm way off here.