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Author Topic: [SOI] Asylum Visitor  (Read 6334 times)
gkraigher
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« on: March 18, 2016, 09:58:27 am »

http://www.mtgsalvation.com/cards/shadows-over-innistrad/26792-asylum-visitor

Seems incredible with Liliana of the Veil.  

« Last Edit: March 18, 2016, 12:23:29 pm by Prospero » Logged
vaughnbros
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« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2016, 10:31:58 am »



This card is definitely insanely powerful.  It works on any upkeep where a player is hellbent meaning you can draw 2 cards per turn!.  Madness means you can extract value for it right away.  A 3/1 body means its a very fast clock, and has the ability to trade with almost any creature in the format.  I will look forward to playing with this card.
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gkraigher
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« Reply #2 on: March 18, 2016, 10:35:08 am »

Dredge could play this card to get around hate cards.
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vaughnbros
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« Reply #3 on: March 18, 2016, 10:40:42 am »

Dredge could play this card to get around hate cards.

That will be my plan.  The key will be to figure out how to not loose on the first couple turns... The format is so fast right now.  I can't see how draw 1, and potentially draw 2 cards a turn on a 3/1 can not be playable though.
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Aaron Patten
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« Reply #4 on: March 18, 2016, 11:32:42 am »

IO'm not a dredge player but based on recentprintings (hate and otherwise) tt seems like the future of dredge is to play more lands.
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MaximumCDawg
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« Reply #5 on: March 18, 2016, 11:40:01 am »

This card seems really powerful.  I'm really happy that Wizards tries this, steadily improving on old designs that proved not QUITE powerful enough.  (Blood Scriviner).  Let's examine this dork with a Vintage eye:

1. 3/1 for 1B.  That's absolutely fair stats and trades with virtually every creature that isn't cheated out in the format - most critically, Lodestone Golem.
2. It draws cards if your OPPONENT is Hellbent.  This makes it powerful in a discard shell.  Powerful enough to make 8rack.dec actually a thing? (Eh... no, because half of the cards you draw will be just more discard!)
3. It draws cards if YOU are Hellbent.  This is probably a less likely scenario, but in a Dark Times, Dredge, Dragon, or aggro deck, that's something that could totally happen.
4. It draws TWO cards if you AND your opponent are hellbent.  I can't see this happening too much, but this makes cards like Chain of Smog (yeah, you had to look that up, didn't ya), Bottomless Pit, Cunning Lethemancer, and Delerium Skiens much more powerful.
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« Reply #6 on: March 18, 2016, 11:41:57 am »

If you are drawing a card in their upkeep though, there is a good chance you will not be drawing a card in your own upkeep off this.

This card will probably be somewhat playable still though.
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Aaron Patten
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« Reply #7 on: March 18, 2016, 11:45:25 am »

Last Rites too Razz
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MaximumCDawg
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« Reply #8 on: March 18, 2016, 12:13:19 pm »

If you are drawing a card in their upkeep though, there is a good chance you will not be drawing a card in your own upkeep off this.

This card will probably be somewhat playable still though.

Ah, excellent point.  

And to expand on this, if you are playing 8rack or something else with lots of discard, you have a huge percentage that you will not draw an instant.  The only instant speed discard is, what, Funeral Charm?

EDIT: Piracy Charm, too.
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TheMonadNomad
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« Reply #9 on: March 18, 2016, 01:26:26 pm »

This looks like it has the most potential for Vintage play than any other card in the set imo.  I could see some kind of all-in deck with all the moxes and chocked full of instants to get max value out of this guy's draw engine.  Certainly worth trying!
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xouman
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« Reply #10 on: March 18, 2016, 03:09:30 pm »

Talking about instant discard, there is also a rat rogue that allows discarding opponent as instant.

Seems awesome, but I thought the same with spirit of the labyrinth and I have had little success. However 3/1 for 2 is really nice, specially with liliana as stated. A friend had some good experience with Jagged Poppet in the past in a RB beatz, with moons and so. play spirit guides to empty your hand and start the party.
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fsecco
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« Reply #11 on: March 18, 2016, 05:34:43 pm »

The fact that you mostly will draw only 1 card extra per turn kinda turns me down on this one. But there's another card that may work well with him: Raven's Crime.
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gkraigher
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« Reply #12 on: March 18, 2016, 06:34:51 pm »

so multiple copies are great vs a hellbent opponent, but not good for you unless you can cast an instant in between resolutions.

The ability only triggers once each upkeep, so you can only draw 1 card per turn.  There are situations where you can draw a card on your turn and a card on your opponents turn. 
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vaughnbros
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« Reply #13 on: March 19, 2016, 12:03:59 am »

You can draw multiple cards if you happen to draw and use a counterspell/removal or any other instant on your opponent's turn that doesn't read draw a card. 

However, the biggest and best way to get multiple draws off this is Bazaar of Baghdad.  It's also how you abuse madness.  Another good card with both this card, and Bazaar?  Uba Mask.
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tito del monte
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« Reply #14 on: March 19, 2016, 08:24:39 am »

While I applaud the design and power level of this guy, I'm not really sure what makes him any more suited to Vintage at the moment than Dark Confidant. Bob barely gets a look-in these days, and as long as mid-range gro decks (and the removal we all run because of them) continue to be a thing, I doubt this guy will either.

That said, if Gush ever gets restricted we might be back to looking for other draw engines. Still, even then, Bob seems far more reliable, especially at helping you hit your land drops versus Shops, so you can even begin to think about emptying your hand.

Cool card, but I'm not really seeing it in Vintage.
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vaughnbros
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« Reply #15 on: March 19, 2016, 03:13:32 pm »

While I applaud the design and power level of this guy, I'm not really sure what makes him any more suited to Vintage at the moment than Dark Confidant. Bob barely gets a look-in these days, and as long as mid-range gro decks (and the removal we all run because of them) continue to be a thing, I doubt this guy will either.

That said, if Gush ever gets restricted we might be back to looking for other draw engines. Still, even then, Bob seems far more reliable, especially at helping you hit your land drops versus Shops, so you can even begin to think about emptying your hand.

Cool card, but I'm not really seeing it in Vintage.

Looking at each part of each card:

Draw ability both have variance in what is going to happen.  Bob's ability reveals the card, and does a lot more damage on average.  Bob is also limited to a maximum of 1 card per turn regardless of the situation, although that card is guaranteed.  In any deck where you go hellbent often, workshops/dredge/dragon/ect., this is way better than Bob.  Asylum Visitor has the bonus of potentially causing your opponent to take suboptimal lines in order to try and shut off the ability too.

P/T edge goes to Asylum Visit as 3/1 > 2/1.  This power difference is also not negligible as it can trade with Lodestone, kill Jace in one attack, trade with a blocking Mishra's Factory, and provide a clock that is 3 turns faster.

The Madness ability.  This is obviously something Bob doesn't have at all.  Asylum Visitor has already generated card advantage just by being cast off its madness ability, regardless of whether it resolves or is removed before it ever activates.

Honestly this card is of a higher power level than Bob although in some decks, Bob would likely be the better choice.
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MaximumCDawg
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« Reply #16 on: March 19, 2016, 03:22:00 pm »

Honestly this card is of a higher power level than Bob although in some decks, Bob would likely be the better choice.

I was totally with you until that last bit.  No, I don't think Visitor actually exceeds Bob.  Sure, it's situationally better.  In particular, it lets you run a higher curve without fear.   But, if you're looking for a turn 1 draw engine, I think Bob is still far and away the better choice since it, you know, actually WILL draw you cards if it lives.  This dork will not.

But, like I said, I'm with you otherwise.  I will be brewing with this saucy lady.
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vaughnbros
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« Reply #17 on: March 19, 2016, 03:28:18 pm »

Honestly this card is of a higher power level than Bob although in some decks, Bob would likely be the better choice.

I was totally with you until that last bit.  No, I don't think Visitor actually exceeds Bob.  Sure, it's situationally better.  In particular, it lets you run a higher curve without fear.   But, if you're looking for a turn 1 draw engine, I think Bob is still far and away the better choice since it, you know, actually WILL draw you cards if it lives.  This dork will not.

But, like I said, I'm with you otherwise.  I will be brewing with this saucy lady.

She beats him out in everything except maybe the draw ability, and even there Bob is inferior in most of the current decklists (especially in non Blue).  Frankly paying 2+ life for an extra card a turn (non optional) is just not that good, and has largely been the reason that Bob has been phased out.  If Bob was actually seeing play right now I could see the argument, but he doesn't.
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MaximumCDawg
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« Reply #18 on: March 19, 2016, 04:02:00 pm »

Yes, Visitor does beat Bob everywhere BUT the draw ability.  But, when people turn to Bob, it's specifically BECAUSE of that draw ability, you know what I mean?  Visitor fills a totally different niche, one where the card draw is an unreliable bonus.  It's true that since Gush, Young Pyro, and Mentor showed up, Bob has been invisible.  And it's true that he's likely to stay that way with Thirst also being unrestricted.

But, look at what Bob did when he was legal.  His role was to be an absurdly threatening turn 1 drop from blue decks, largely.  Yeah, you hit the occasional Force of Will to much hilarity, but most of the time you're losing 0-1 life from cards you draw.  And draw he does.  As a draw engine, Bob did his job.  And he still can, if the meta adjusted to make him playable again.  If you want to draw cards off your 1B drop, Bob is still king.  
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vaughnbros
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« Reply #19 on: March 19, 2016, 04:12:39 pm »

Bob is still king.  

Of unplayable cards that were formerly good maybe.
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xouman
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« Reply #20 on: March 19, 2016, 05:56:10 pm »

i just took another look and realised this card DRAWS the card, while bob puts it into your hand, which is sometimes relevant (this allows dredging, but on the other hand can be stealed by noxious). In a blue deck I'd play confidant, since is a more reliable source of cards. In GB, maybe this one. In WGB maybe confidant because of spirit of the labyrinth.
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MaximumCDawg
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« Reply #21 on: March 19, 2016, 06:32:41 pm »

Bob is still king.  

Of unplayable cards that were formerly good maybe.

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Ten-Ten
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« Reply #22 on: March 19, 2016, 07:50:55 pm »

Only plus I see is casting for madness after activating Dack or whatever. Other than that, this is NOT better than Bob. Seems better but is not. Remember pain seer? Yeah, he still draws more cards than this. Jori en sees no play and neither will asylum visitor.

Unless....This makes psychatog playable again.
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« Reply #23 on: March 19, 2016, 10:37:37 pm »



I fear this may not receive the credit it deserves...
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vaughnbros
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« Reply #24 on: March 19, 2016, 10:49:24 pm »



I fear this may not receive the credit it deserves...

This is pretty amazing.
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xouman
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« Reply #25 on: March 20, 2016, 01:43:29 pm »



I fear this may not receive the credit it deserves...

This is pretty amazing.
Indeed. I would +1 if possible.
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Twaun007
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« Reply #26 on: March 20, 2016, 10:36:46 pm »

I thought this was the new NYSE playmat for a second.
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« Reply #27 on: March 21, 2016, 12:33:21 am »

I thought this was the new NYSE playmat for a second.

It should be the last place trophy. 
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MaximumCDawg
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« Reply #28 on: March 21, 2016, 08:33:53 am »

Hey, if you wanna give out MS Paint artwork to last place,  I'm cool with that.   Rock on, King Bob.
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Twaun007
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« Reply #29 on: March 21, 2016, 09:52:32 am »

I thought this was the new NYSE playmat for a second.

It should be the last place trophy. 

Now that's a prize I'd be willing to fight for.
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This... Right here... Is my new Lambo...

Carpe Librum

You can't ask a bird not to fly!
You can't ask a fish not to swim!
You can't ask a Chinese guy not to turn back into a tiger at midnight!
It's who I am.

Cleveland
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