Question on using Chalice of the Void

[Argopile]

My question is how to use a Chalice in a Workshop deck, that deck being either Welder-Mud or Stax or some version thereof.

I noted in Smmenen's article "The Long.Dec And Winding Road, Part Two: A Look At The 2004 Vintage Metagame" that he toted 4 Chalice in his Stax build.  And while I don't deny the cards value, I am curious as to know how to play it successfully, ie; without harming myself.

I am also curious as to why he see's Ancient Tomb as underused.  The damage-per-use seems harsh.

Thanks in advance for answers and explanations.  I just want to get better at magic.

-Argopile

[MUNGMAN]

The chalice is a need to use basis, the only way to effectivly use it is by watching the game your in carefully and figuring out your opponents casting cost comparisons find out whats going to hurt you and stop it with stacks and so on remember you can sacrifice your chalice cast something and then get chalice back early sui chi and mana acceleration can stop control in ways and even defend against stompy burn ank and so on but when putting chalice in look closer at your metagame.
As far as ancient tomb its fast mana and the tomb stays on the board as where city of traitors will die when you play another land the 2 life is worth it and from other versions ive seen people running zuron orb basically use it and sac it.

[Pago]

run 3-4 chalice in your workshop deck, and depending on the kind of deck you are facing, set the chalice to hose as many spells as possible. Since lots of decks feature many cards that run on the same cc level, once you figured out what kind of deck (e.g. Suicide, set chalice @ 2), it should be no problem setting it to the right number of counters

[faceless]

Chalice is simply disruption.  IMHO one of the best disruption spells ever.  The card should be cast with enough counters on it to stop a significant number of cards in your opponents deck.  What to set it on?

vs. Sligh: 1 counter nullifies most of the deck
vs. most anything blue: 1 counter stops key spells like Ancestral, Brainstorm, Mystical Tutor, etc.
vs. most anything blue: 2 counters nullifies quite a bit of their permission (counterspell, manadrain, possibly others), and possibly draw and tutor spells (depending on their exact build), also nullifies that pesky Fire/Ice.
vs. combo: if set correctly, Chalice outright kills most combo decks.  Set at 0 or 1 and Long (including the new post-Jan builds) pretty much dies immediately.  Set at 2 and Dragon is pretty much dead (3 may also be a good choice, depending on how many Necromancies your opponent runs).
vs. Hulk/Tog: in addition to the comments on killing blue (above), a Chalice at three stops Deed, Tog, and Cunning Wish...so it neuters most Tog builds quite nicely.

In addition to nullifying a good portion of your opponents deck, look at what most Workshop decks lose to a Chalice set at these levels:

1 counter -- Welder, a key card.  Depending on the match-up it may be best to drop the Welder before a Chalice at 1 (against something akin to Long, probably not though).
2 counters -- Sphere.  To shut down opponents permission as well as some tutor, draw, and board control...this is a no brainer (you lose 4 cards out of your deck, they lose most of their deck).  Some Workshop builds will also lose Winter Orb at this level...make the choice on whether this will screw up your opponent more than you.
3 counters -- Tangle Wire.  Again you are losing a stall card, they are probably losing most of the key cards in their deck.

Workshop decks play above the traditional mana-curve, so setting Chalice's will 0 through 3 counters will normally wreck opposing (non-Workshop) decks and only modestly interfere with your own.

Obviously you have to be able to decipher your opponent's deck early on to make use of this card.  If you are new to the game, or face a very random metagame, it may be best to stay away from Chalice.  But if you have a reasonable chance of being able to understand what your opponent is trying to do from the first few turns of a match, Chalice can be a game breaking play.  (Scouting helps!   )

[NXHawk]

Chalice also works extremly well against Sui, set at 2 counters to keep those nasty disruption spells away, or at 3 counters to deal with nearly every creature they have, not to forget the Necropotence some versions play..

[Argopile]

Wow good answers!  My many thanks!  Specially to Faceless.  After taking a good look I realised that any setting other than at 1 can't really hurt you since whatever gets countered by chalice in your deck can easily be weldered right into play.

3 and 0(if first turn) seem to be really good choices versus just about any deck.

Again thanks all.

[thejinhong]

When I'm playing Mud, against Control, almost always I try to Chalice for 2, then follow it up with a Chalice for 1.  The Chalice for 1 is to stop Mox Monkey, cause he'll really ruin Mud's day.  

When I'm playing control, I've seen people drop a Chalice for 2 even with my Monkey on the table.  Big mistake.   A lot of people seem to forget the 0 casting cost of Chalice on the table.

[Jacob Orlove]

When I'm playing Mud, against Control, almost always I try to Chalice for 2, then follow it up with a Chalice for 1. The Chalice for 1 is to stop Mox Monkey, cause he'll really ruin Mud's day.

Chalice for 1 costs 2. It'll get countered by a chalice for 2. You have to play them in the other order.

[Plainswalker]

Jacob beat me to the chalice thing, it's a mistake a lot more people then you think make. Generally I find Chalice for 2 in Mud decks is the safe way to go unless the situation would suggest otherwise since, depending on what you run, this only useally hurts sphere of resistence which you can weld back in later.

[thejinhong]

good catch Jacob!  Big mistake on my part.   I really like Chalice and I like the Monkey even better.

[Raven Fire]

Chalice also works extremly well against Sui, set at 2 counters to keep those nasty disruption spells away, or at 3 counters to deal with nearly every creature they have, not to forget the Necropotence some versions play..

Chalice for 2 also whipes out a lot of Gay Fish (but it can still play its man-lands).

[Razvan]

As far as I can tell from experience:

Stax and MUD are public enemy #1, and every deck is out to get them. One of the reasons why Chalices are good (I only use them in the sideboard) is to hate out the hate, which is very prevalent at every tournament. I now see people with not only Null Rod main, but Energy Flux and stuff like that... Mean, mean stuff...

[THENATE]

chalice for 2 is very key in many matchups. it most importantly kills mana drain. it shouldnt be a problem to drop that very early, like 1st or 2nd turn. and once it is in play theres only a few cards that are shut off for u, depending on the build ( mostly just the walk).

[SpencerForHire]

In stacker there is a very fun trick.  You can chalice for two, lock them up. Then when you wanna drop all your two drops.. Shrapnel blast using that chalice as fuel. The shrapnel blast isn't countered because the artifact sacing is part of the cost, BEFORE the shrapnel blast hits the stack.