Elfball - Some different ways to go

[Tempe]

I'm not one for making any kind of introduction do a deck or anything, so I don't know how well I can do this. For a year or so, I've been working on a deck that most would call Elfball. During this time, I have searched through most, if not all, of the magic spoilers, looking for cards with good synergy. Now some are plainly obvious, like Priest of Titania, Llanowar Elves, and Fyndhorn Elves. But, the majority of the cards that I found to have amazing synergy with these elves have come out recently.

First, let me say that there are multiple ways to go. The first is to charge up a large x spell (such as Kaervek's Torch) using the absurd amount of mana you get from the elves. The first problem I found with this is that it usually requires the assistance of at least one more color. Yes, there are ways to get around this, and yes, I have explored this territory, but it was the the focus of my research into elves.

The second way, and the way that I went, is more of an Elf stompy. The point of the deck is to get out a large amount of elves, and then use universal boosts (such as the classic Overrun) to swarm the opponent. A few cards in the past sets have really helped this.

The next decision after kill method is that of a draw engine. Everyone knows that almost any deck needs some way to draw cards, and this deck is no exception. There are two options here, in my eyes. The first was the ever-popular Collective Unconscious, and the recent Slate of Ancestry. The problem I found with these was that they required you to have a lot of elves already on the table in order to draw cards, which could be a problem. The second option is made possible by a very recent card called Wirewood Symbiote. This card, along with Sylvan Messanger, allows you to look through a large chunk of the library once it gets going. The reason for this is that Sylvan Messanger can grab either another Messanger or another Symbiote to keep the engine going. If you have a Skyshroud Poacher on the table, it makes things even more crazy.

I found the second engine to be best, because the engine also helps boost other things, and no card is dead alone here.

The rest of the deck is fairly self explanatory. To generate even more creatures, I used Wirewood Hivemaster, an extremely powerful card. To get by other aggro decks, Timberwatch Elf was put in to pump the unblocked creatures. One more key part to this deck was the amount of untappers available that can untap things like Priest of Titania for mana, Timberwatch Elf for damage, and Skyshroud Poacher for more creatures.

Without further ado, here is my unpowered Elf Stompy deck, entitled "Snowball," because once you get rolling, you keep picking up speed.

Snowball
The Manabase (15):
4 Forest
3 Land Grant
4 Gaea's Cradle
4 Wirewood Lodge

The Necessary Evil (5):
1 Fastbond
4 Concordant Crossroads

The Engine (12):
4 Skyshroud Poacher
4 Wirewood Symbiote
4 Sylvan Messenger

The Kill (8):
4 Timberwatch Elf
4 Wirewood Hivemaster

The Elves (20):
4 Wellwisher
4 Priest of Titania
4 Quirion Ranger
4 Fyndhorn Elves
4 Llanowar Elves

The Sideboard (15)
4 Caller of the Claw
3 Multani's Decree
3 Eladamri, Lord of Leaves
2 Taunting Elf
2 Gaea's Blessing
1 Glissa Sunseeker

I admit that I haven't been on top of the recent metagame, so I could use a little help tweaking it there. Also, I'm sure I have missed some obvious cards in my search, and some other changes I could add.

I encourage anyone who has the cards to throw the deck together, and see how it runs. With a little practice, it runs very smoothly. I'll refrain from posting any numbers or matchups, as thos always turn out badly.

Note: Thanks to waSP for helping a _lot_.


During my search for a good elf deck, as I said earlier, there was another option, and that was of classic Elfball. I have played that deck as well, and it is powerful. The problem I found with it was that there were too many dead cards. The extra cards I used in that case were:
Skyshroud Elves
Kaervek's Torch
Hurricane (In a monogreen version)
And the obvious manabase tweaks

There were little structural difference as well, and I tried both draw engines with it too. I just found it to not be as consistant, as well as being more expensive (although both are dirt cheap as far as most are concerned).

So, comments? Questions? Criticism? Insults? I welcome all (except the last, please), so please post your thoughts.

--Tempe

[Moxlotus]

You should look into the archives(it might be there) for a deck called Green Tide.  It is a mono green deck with lots of elves that uses a lot of the cards you have, only it goes through its entire deck with Recycle and uses Masticore to smash opposing creatures. I've only seen the deck once played (TracerBullet played it at GenCon) and it was pretty scary for a mono green deck.

[Tempe]

I've seen the Aluren/Recycle engine in action, and I must say its impressive. However, I found one critical problem with it. As soon as your opponent plays a Hymn to Tourach, that's game. Any hand disruption at all will usually ruin the engine, and I can't take that change. Besides that, its a 2 card combo that is relatively expensive, and by the time I can get them into play consistantly, I should have already won.

I don't have a lot of problem with aggro, but if i do, Masticore will be sure to put into the Sideboard. Taunting Elf is almsot as devastating, except its cheaper, and its elf (which can be poached).

[Fëanor]

Here, let me post my version of the elfball i used to use. It won a couple tournaments in a slightly powered enviro. Though the reason why I dont play it anymore is because it became almost unplayable.

Mana:
5 Forest
4 wooded foothills
4 taiga
4 land grant
R lotus petal

R wheel of fortune
R regrowth
2 gaea's blessing
4 hull breach
3 llanowar
4 fyndhorn
4 wellwisher
4 quirion ranger
4 priest of titania
4 skyshroud elf
3 fireball
4 rolling thunder
4 killer bees

SB:
4 ensnaring bridge
4 simoon
4 xantid swarm
1 maze of ith
2 kaervek's torch

Unfortunately I dont have the exact list. But I know these were the cards that were in it because I played it like I needed it to live. So if you go into elfball, try out these cards then tweak as I had to numerous times.
Dont laugh at wellwisher. I NEVER LOST AGAINST DRAGON, and thats why.
Also, put in power, lotus, ruby, emerald, and also try cradles (I just never had them).

peace

[RoadTrippin]

Are you sure? Wellwisher doesn't save you against any Dragon build, and Blessing doesn't save you against my (the only one at our store) build, unless you are the kid with long hair who has conversely only beaten me once because I didn't have my Sliver Queen..? Either way, I don't see you backing up the claim of never having lost to Dragon unless you never played against it.

[Fëanor]

as stated earlier, this deck WAS worthy for type one play. Elfball has been out of T1 for a while now and i dont see it coming back anytime or at all.

as for the road tripper. dont remember you personally. i play at the gathering where i have played a few dragon builds in the past, and i have also played at many other places in off cape mass and R.I. Your Move, etc. with this deck and others, and i can truthfully say that blessing has saved me all of my games over dragon while in my elfball deck. Now I have moved on to play non-green stuffies and the blessing wont work anymore. The Tourney this won, at The Gathering, i played against dragon in semi-finals, though I believe I know the player now, I dont quite remember who it was. He (or you possibly  :shock: ) played nishobas for kill and no creature removal. I ended up gaining more life than he could deal, and with the help of my burn I kept the nishoba down long enough to find channel...

oh speaking of channel!!! i forgot it in the build above. how i forgot the most important card i dont know but there it is:

- 1 forest (or  1 bees)
+ R channel

do you have a name stranger?

peace

[Tempe]

Feanor: Your decklist looks strong, but there is a reason I did not splash red and use an X kill card as my win condition. As I said earlier in the top post, when using this kill, I find the deck too inconsistant, and I often have dead cards in my hand. In your deck, you have about 10 dead cards in my eyes, and that is not acceptable when you need every card in your hand to fuel the engine.

If I were to run a deck similar to what you are talking about, this is what I would run:
ElfTorch
4 Taiga
6 Forest
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Gaea's Cradle

1 Fastbond
4 Concordant Crossroads
1 Wheel of Fortune
4 Slate of Ancestry
4 Kaervek's Torch

4 Skyshroud Poacher
4 Wellwisher
4 Skyshroud Elf
4 Priest of Titania
4 Quirion Ranger
4 Fyndhorn Elves
4 Llanowar Elves

Although that is not the deck I would like critiquing on. I have tested this for a while, and, at least in my opinion, my first deck is faster, more consistant, and is more powerful. Yes, I could splash red, and/or blue, but that would up the cost a bunch, and it would make the deck more inconsistant (especially the mana base). If someone else has tested both types of elf decks, and has comments on that, that would be helpful. Other comments are helpful as well, of course.

Also, why do you say that Elves aren't viable in Type 1 anymore? Other decks have risen from the dead, and decks that don't look like they can compete actually do. This is my attempt to at least make a viable deck of Elves, even if they aren't a top deck (which I doubt they will ever be).

[Fëanor]

I, for one, definitely second your statement that elves rise in T1 serious.

there would be nothing more wonderful than to see elves kick the crap out of mindslaver etc.!!!!!

i posted my deck just in case you changed your mind, however in your first build i can see some things you might want to consider.

four land grant please! i have told everyone who even runs this card to run four as long as they do. its not worth it to run less, because the mana will just get sloppy. ive tested many many elf decks ever since the card came out and it works in other green builds as well, but you have to have four; its a deck thinner, free spell, and a fetch all in one. it will never be a dead card.

ah the days of poacher.........what a wonderful card. if you play this card, i find that SB scrappers and lyrists are very synergetic if not MD'd.

you have quite the amazing tech here. i dont think you could do much to make it any faster or better than it already is. you may consider putting in the champion in but it doesnt seem to go with the design

also slate is an idea youve looked at and i think you should consider at least one here, for emptying your dead hands.

hope this helps, peace

[terevaune]

The reason for this is that Sylvan Messanger can grab either another Messanger or another Symbiote to keep the engine going

[card]Sylvan messenger[/card] will not pick up [card]wirewood symbiote[/card] - It's an insect, not an elf.

The Manabase (15):
4 Forest
3 Land Grant
4 Gaea's Cradle
4 Wirewood Lodge

This looks very shaky to me - you need to get a forest, or a land grant and no land in your opening hand, to drop a turn 1 elf.  If you don't get your elf down fast enough, you will lose.  I'd drop some wirewood lodges for forests.  I'd also suggest replacing land grant with fetch lands, as they cannot be countered (except by bind, stifle or interdict), don't show your hand to your opponent and work regardless of how many non green producing lands you have in your hand.  Maybe this manabase works for you, but it seems it would just cause a lot of unnesscessary mulligans.

Also, have you tried [card]elvish spirit guide[/card].  It seems like it could give you a nice early game boost.  Unfortunately it's not an elf though.

Also, how has concordant crossroads been working out for you - I've played elves before but I never really though about it.  It defeinitely looks interesting though.

[Tempe]

Regarding the Mana Base:
I can see your point on changing the mana base. Here are my reasons for having them the way they are now, but the decision is still open.

I only have 3 land grant because I don't have any more space for land, and I don't want to have more land grants than I have forests. I guess its just a rule of thumb, but I don't want to end up with a land grant and no land to grab. The Lodges are very necessary to keep the flow going with all of the untap effects, and with a Priest in play, it is much better than a forest.

In this deck, only a single forest is needed for the deck to function, which explains why I only have 7 sources of green mana from scratch. That gives me about an 82% chance of a forest in my first hand, which is pretty decent. Yes, I can see getting rid of the unnecessary mulligan, but I can't figure out what to cut, and after getting the first land out, most of the time the extra forests are dead. The only other reason to have them is for Quirion Ranger, and Fastbond is much more powerful for that purpose than playing more forests. I should probably find room for one more land grant. If I were to add it as a 61st card, then the chance for a green source in the first hand would change to 91%, which is a pretty big jump. At 60 cards, its about 93%, so I should be fine at 61 cards if I can't find anything else to cut.

Elvish Spirit Guide I have looked at many times, but my mana base is so cramped right now that there is no way I could fit it in.

On Fetchlands, I have also had to choose between these and Land Grants. My reasoning was this: Fetchlands can be countered much earlier than Land Grants can, and Land Grants are rarely countered anyways. Fetchlands are prime targets for first turn Stifles, and that makes me nervous now that Stifle is popular in almost all blue-based decks nowadays. The two are interchangable, so it shouldn't be hard to switch back and forth. That decision probably requires more testing against actual opponents with competative Type 1 decks, which is the area in which I am lacking right now.

In terms of Sideboard tech, I'm pretty good there. I haven't really worked with it, however. Glissa Sunseeker is a force against artifacts, so that should be good enough on artifact hate (with the poachers). In terms of Enchantment hate, Elvish Lyrist is really the only option, but the problem with that is the biggest enchantment I am worried about, humility, it doesn't handle. Either I should put a single Naturalize in there, or I can put a hurricane in there to get around things like Moat.

On Concordant Crossroads; It basically accelerates the deck by 1-2 turns, and allows the deck to go off. It is completely necessary, and I couldn't imagine playing without it.

The revised deck now is:

Snowball
The Manabase (16):
4 Forest
4 Land Grant
4 Gaea's Cradle
4 Wirewood Lodge

The Necessary Evil (5):
1 Fastbond
4 Concordant Crossroads

The Engine (12):
4 Skyshroud Poacher
4 Wirewood Symbiote
4 Sylvan Messenger

The Kill (7):
3 Timberwatch Elf
4 Wirewood Hivemaster

The Elves (20):
4 Wellwisher
4 Priest of Titania
4 Quirion Ranger
4 Fyndhorn Elves
4 Llanowar Elves

The Sideboard (15)
3 Caller of the Claw
3 Multani's Decree
3 Eladamri, Lord of Leaves
2 Taunting Elf
2 Gaea's Blessing
1 Glissa Sunseeker
1 <Utility>

Thanks to everyone who has already commented, and I hope to get some more comments here. Perhaps someone else besides me would like to help test the deck? I don't expect random people to just pick up the deck and play it, but I would really appreciate it if some other people started playing it as well. It would really help the effort of trying to get this deck some sort of attention, and turning it into something viable in Type 1. Thanks.

[Raph Caron]

Excuse me, but I don't see how Fastbond really helps your deck. You seem to be running too few lands to use it sufficiently and your engine doesn't make you draw lands. Quirion Ranger's ability can only be used once per turn.

Am I missing something?

[Tempe]

With so few forests in the deck, I found it necessary to include fastbond so that I could use all of my quirion rangers every turn. I routinely get a quirion ranger out 1st or 2nd turn, and my land base would be completely stagnant if I couldn't play more than one a turn. Its a nice utility spot that can accelerate the kill by a turn when it comes out, but isn't exactly needed (unlike concordant crossroads).

So basically, I'm trying to prevent locking myself by having to play the same forest over and over again for a quirion rangers ability, while other good utility lands are waiting in my hand.

Edit:
Viridian Zealot - GG
Creature - Elf (R)
1G, sacrifice Tel-Jilad Zealot: Destroy target artifact or enchantment.
2/1

(Assuming Tel-Jilad is a typo)
Just a comment on this card, and how it replaces Elvish Lyrist and Elvish Scrapper permanently in almost every case. A possible candidate for the sideboard, although it still doesn't get around humility.