Goblin Charbelcher Issues/Problems/Concerns

[Ineffible]

Ok I am trying to work on this deck. Mine is a bit different than others that have been posted and I have been playing it for almost 2 months now. Once the Jan. bannings/restrictions came out I decided to put this together.

2 Bayou
1 Taiga
1 Badlands
1 Swamp

6 Mox (incl. Chrome Mox)
4 Chromatic Sphere
4 Goblin Charbelcher
1 Memory Jar
1 Black Lotus
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Vault
1 Mana Crypt
1 Grim Monolith
1 Lion's Eye Diamond
1 Lotus Petal

4 Elvish Spirit Guide

4 Land Grant
4 Eladamri's Vineyard
1 Channel

4 Unmask
4 Dark Ritual
4 Spoils of the Vault
4 Duress
1 Necropotence
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Demonic Consultation
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Yawgmoth's Will
total of 61 cards.

 My sideboard currently consists of
4 Contagion
4 Naturalize

Here are some of the reasons why I chose certain things. I chose 4 Duress because it is really a "non Misdirectable" piece of disruption. I run 5 lands because in my meta there are 2 land destruction decks, and TONS of wastelands running around. I understand the risk of running into a land and if I thought of other options I would take them. I chose 1 swamp because of all the wastelands as well.

Now here are my questions.
1. People that play this, what do you do against control?  I have HUGE problems with GayFish and mono blue. Is there anything I can do to help with this or is it just that I should hope for a turn 1 duress AND the rest of the combo as well.

2. Is there any other Mana Producers that I may have missed (ie. Elvish Spirit Guide etc.) to replace 1 or even 2 or my lands. I run the Taiga and Badlands to double damage.

3. What other problems do people encounter with this deck? Out of sheer curiosity? by this I don't mean my deck in particular, I mean the Goblin Charbelcher vs. whatever matchup. I am curious to see what other people play against and what their problems are with those decks.

Thanks.

[Flurp™]

I would try a chrome mox in there.  Also how has consoltation been working?  It seems like it might slow down your kill sometimes because you have too few cards.

[Ghost]

If your having problems with control than maybe Xantid swarm would be worth using.  Where's yawgmoths bargain? Have you tried tinder walls?

[CowWithHat]

The list looks solid enough but I think that Xantid Swarm could definetly find a place in this deck especially if you are worried about control.  I also am very puzzled by the addition of memory jar as it seems like a weaker wheel of fortune for this deck.  I am not advertising for the wheel but that seems like the first cut i'd make.


Good luck with a very interesting deck

[atog]

methink that  the deck would be much stronger with the addition of blue

Land
1x bayou
1x tropical island
1x underground sea
1x tolarian academy

Artifact
1x chrome mox
1x grim monolith
1x lotus petal
1x mana crypt
1x mana vault
1x memory jar
1x sol ring
1x black lotus
1x mox emerald
1x mox jet
1x mox ruby
1x mox pearl
1x sapphire
4x goblin charbelcher

Black
1x necropotence
1x yawgmoth's bargain
3x tainted pact
1x vampirirc tutor
1x demonic tutor
4x duress
1x mind twist
1x yawgmoth's will
4x dark ritual

Blue
1x ancestral recall
3x brainstorm
1x hurkyl's recall
1x mystical tutor
1x time walk
1x timetwister
1x tinker

Green
4x elvish sprirt giude
4x eladrami's vineyard
1x channel
4x land grant

You get all the power  and search to make this more consistent, plus tinker is great when you can just put belcher right into play

[Ineffible]

Thanks for the replies. Here are my responses to all of your suggestions...

 I have so far cut the Memory Jar. (I am sorry I forgot that it was out)

The reason I have not splashed blue is because I need the red duals in there in order to double damage. I think the addition of blue (while strengthening the search aspect) slows the kill aspect.

I was thinking about adding 1 Xantid Swarm, because of the control aspect, but is it really worth it? Maybe I should add 2 to the sideboard.

Any other suggestions?
Thanks again

[Ghost]

I would suggest 4 Xantid swarm SB or if you see a lot of control MD a couple.

[Raven Fire]

3. What other problems do people encounter with this deck? Out of sheer curiosity? by this I don't mean my deck in particular, I mean the Goblin Charbelcher vs. whatever matchup. I am curious to see what other people play against and what their problems are with those decks.

Thanks.

I imagine a Null Rod with any sort of protection at all would be the end of the game.

[Ineffible]

Yes Null Rod ends the game in a heartbeat. I was looking for ways to get around cards like Null rod. Anothe card that ends the game is Energy Flux, as my mana is usually being spent to use the belcher rather than to save it.

Are there any other mana producers out there in the Vain of Elvish Spirit Guide?
Thanks again.

ps- I took the advice of some on here and compromised to put 2 Xantid Swarm in the board.

[Hi-Val]

Hull Breach can take out Energy Flux and Null Rod. My suggestion is to not worry about doubling the damage. Usually you can raw-dog a kill off belcher anyway, and if you don't during one turn, you will the next. The kill will come, so I would concentrate more on strengthening your mana base instead of doubling the damage.

[Wollblad]

I have been doing som testing with this deck and the proble is without doubt that the deck contains alomost only mana. I started out with a list containing black and blue. I soon found out that the deck must have 4 Chromatic Sphere to get mana of the right colour. Futhermore, the deck contains very little "real" mana like lands and outher sources that can be reuced. Foremost I am thinking of Lion's Eye Diamond since it is only useful along with other sources. It was always a dead card unless you had a Charbelcher on the table and then it coud have been virtually any mana source, so it had to go. I was not very found of the Vineyard either. Even control decks managed to use the mana it gave them and combo-decks just used it to win right of. I therefor took them out for Tinderwalls instead.

For disruption I tested Force of Will (I managed to get the number of blue cards up to 13) since I was afraid of Chalice and Null Rod and some Duress. I was not at all impressed by FoW, but Duress slowed me down much, so I decided to go with Xantid Swarm in main deck. Perhaps they do not protect you from Null Rod, but they do stop all other kind of disruption such as counters and Stifle.

After some testing, I felt that the decks biggest enemy was its bad card economy. It needed more draw seven. It could seem like Necropotence is a obvious choice, but it is not. It often turned out that it was very hard to get BBB to cast it. Instead I found out that the deck actualy could support red also, much because of Tinder Wall that gives RR. So I added one Taiga, Wheel of Fortune and Burning Wish. With Burning Wish I can get Tendrils (alternate windcondition), Hull Breach and Windfall (which was good in main deck, but one Burning Wish is more flexible) and I can retrieve Yawgmoth's Will.

Here is the complete deck list:
Mana(34)
1 Tropical
1 Bayou
1 Taiga
4 ESG
4 Chromatic Shpere
4 Dark Ritual
4 Land Grant
7 SoLoMoxen
1 Mana Vault
1 Mana Crypt
1 Lotus Petal
1 Chanell
4 Tinder Wall

Disruption(6)
4 Xantid Swarm
2 Duress

Wincondition(4)
4 Carbelcher

Tutors(3)
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Tinker

Card Drawing(10)
1 Memory Jar
1 Wheel of Fortune
4 Brainstorm
1 Ancestral
1 Timetwister
1 Timewalk
1 Y. Bargain

Other utility(4)
1 Burning Wish
1 Y. Will
1 Regrowth

Sidebaord
1 Tendrils
1 Hull Breach
1 Windfall
3 Crumble
3 Hurkyl's Recal
3 Tormod's Crypt
3  open slots

This list isn't fully evaluated yet, but as a matter of fact, it does handle control quite well as long as they don't run Null Rod or Chalice. The last spots should probably be som kind of sideboarding against Fish since that along with stax/WMud is one of the hardes matchup you can get.