[Deck] Enchantress, a return to respectability?

[Tim the Enchanter]

I was reading through this thread as I really like enchantress and want to get an old deck of mine running again. Talking about ways to beat combo...well, Dr. Sylvan said "Otherwise you have to create some freak variant of Enchantress with Null Rod shutting down its own Moxen...just too much trouble." If you want to call it a freak variant...ok...but being without moxen that is kind of the perfect answer for unpowered people like me. Null rod ruins slaver, scepter, disk, etc. as well as moxen...Any other thoughts on this?

[Toad]

Seal of Cleansing does the same job, is tutorable and will often cantrip or more.

[mask]

Seal of Cleansing does the same job, is tutorable and will often cantrip or more.

granted, same holds true for seal. i we aren;t going to win points with each other i respect that, it just reflects our different playing personailty =)

the reason why i would run both in main, is becuase at least in my area i see workshops, mono colour controls with enchaments based.

[Jawman16]

Seal of Cleansing does the same job, is tutorable and will often cantrip or more.

Seal doesnt stop Slavery unfortunatly.  All they need is enough mana to play and activate the Mindslaver in one turn and they have you.  Seal can help to prevent any gay welding from happening though in the matchup.  

Null Rod is bad.  This is enchantress anyways, not Artifactress.  The point of this deck is to find enchantment answers so that you can draw into more answers.  If you are playing unpowered then this is the wrong deck for you.  The deck is slow enough as it is with moxes and Lotus.  I could never play this deck with out the mana boost they provide. I guess you could run Wild Growth or something but even then you have no real shot at first turn Argothian/Seal/ Library/ Grove etc...And in today's Meta first turn seal is key against Trinisphere, Stax, Wire etc...Otherwise you are just out.

@ Dr. Sylvan.  I dont know whether you are still working on the deck but Bind has been unsucessful MD.  It is good when you draw it but as you said you have to draw it.  And with no real way to tutor for it, the card cannot be relied on to save you.  I put two in the board but even those might get dropped b/c again you have such a small chance of drawing one that another Karmic Justice would just be preferred.

[Dr. Sylvan]

@ Dr. Sylvan.  I dont know whether you are still working on the deck but Bind has been unsucessful MD.  It is good when you draw it but as you said you have to draw it.  And with no real way to tutor for it, the card cannot be relied on to save you.  I put two in the board but even those might get dropped b/c again you have such a small chance of drawing one that another Karmic Justice would just be preferred.

I've found similar things, but haven't really been testing enough to give new input. The Binds have the same problem that the Chants had: untutorable and more narrow than the other cards I'd like to run. Clearly, we need counterspells. :'-( Therefore, I'm working on a personal variation to ManaDrain.dec.

[Sacred Land Tax]

With interest I have followed the discussion as I really like the idea of a control deck *not* including blue. It's different and it would be too nice if it worked ... and it's quite disappointing to see that the discussion somehow ended with understandable worries about the control match up.

Assuming to include a reasonable amount of black mana (for Duress and Words of Waste), I am wondering whether Blight will improve the situation as a sort of replenish-able sinkhole? Or is it strictly inferior to Choke or City of Solitude??

[Matt]

Even Choke and City aren't that good, because the best control decks in the format either run Deeds or lots of alternative mana, like Sops and Gilded Lotus and so on.

[Sacred Land Tax]

I haven't got the point yet  

Deeds are to be expected, yes. But isn't this the reason, why Karmic Justice has been suggested several times? And one Replenish can undo it again.

The idea was to push the disruption part of the deck (beyond Duress, WoWaste) in order to buy some time. The opponent can spend a counter (good), he can ignore Blight and sacrifice the land (good) or he sets aside this land (also fine). The 2nd alternative has even the advantage that Blight will return with the next Replenish on another land.

Concerning the artifact mana it's rather about Moxes than Gilded Lotus, is it? I mean it takes 5 mana to play GL and this is complicated by Blight.
By the way, what is Sops?

[Toad]

Blight is {B} in a deck that already has problems to get {W} or {G} early, with Green and White being the two primary colours.

Concerning the artifact mana it's rather about Moxes than Gilded Lotus, is it? I mean it takes 5 mana to play GL and this is complicated by Blight.

5 manas is a turn 2 play for Slavery. Or a single Goblin Welder activation. Blight is bad here because your opponent chooses when he wants to lose his land. And giving choices to an opponent is not what you want to do in competitive Magic.

[Matt]

By the way, what is Sops?

Holy fuck, I have NO idea what I meant to type. None. At all. What the fuck was I doing?

[Jacob Orlove]

By the way, what is Sops?

Holy fuck, I have NO idea what I meant to type. None. At all. What the fuck was I doing?

Shops?

[Matt]

YES.

[WingsOfDaidalos.]

Sorry for bumping an old thread, but hey, its better then starting a new one, isn't it =)

Anyway; my version currently:

Kawaii.dec
( also found here: http://www.nedermagic.nl/deck_item.asp?deckid=16367 )

Mana:
1x Black Lotus
1x Mox Emerald    
1x Mox Jet  
1x Mox Pearl    
1x Mox Sapphire  
1x Sol Ring
3x Bayou
4x Savannah
1x Scrubland
1x Tundra
3x City of Brass  
1x Library of Alexandria
1x Serra’s Sanctum
1x Strip Mine  
2x Wasteland  
4x Windswept Heath

Draw:
4x Argothian Enchantress
2x Enchantress’s Presence
1x Ancestral Recall
2x Sylvan Library
1x Pursuit of Knowledge

Utility:
1x The Abyss
1x Moat
2x Seal of Cleansing    
1x Worship
1x Overgrown Estate  
3x Duress  
1x Mind Twist  
1x Regrowth
1x Balance

Kill:
2x Sacred Mesa  
1x Mirari’s Wake

Tutor + Recursion:
4x Sterling Grove    
1x Demonic Tutor    
3x Replenish
 
Sideboard  
1x Powder Keg
1x Words of Waste
2x Choke
1x City of Solitude  
2x Ground Seal
1x Aura Fracture
2x Ivory Mask
1x Karmic Justice
1x Sacred Ground
1x Words of Worship
2x Swords to Plowshares

-----

Now the questions:

- Mind Twist or Words of Waste mainboard?
- 3 or 4 Replenish? If 4, which card should leave?
- Seal of Cleansing or Aura of Silence mainboard? Aura seems like a card that is really worth the extra mana.
- Any other suggestions?

What do you think?

[WingsOfDaidalos.]

Ow yeah; wouldn't Mana Drain (with a tweaked Mana Base) be an improvement? The ability to counter would make this deck a lot me stable, and increase the match-up against combo.

[Law]

Sacred Mesa is good as a kill card but its good to have more then one kill. Your deck also looks like it has some things it dont need in there WingsOfDaidalos.

City of Brass (Not needed it might kill you in the games where you need that last point of life.)

Library of Alexandria (Why your going to be drawing most if not half your deck in one to two turns anyway.)

The Abyss (Another card that can hurt you more in this deck type then needed you need everything in that you can get.)

Mirari’s Wake (If you build your deck right you wont need this card.)


Now for your questions.

Words of Waste: out of the two  since you can put all your drawing power to good work.

3 Replenish: I would use two in the deck but if your dealing with lots of enchantment hate 3 should do realy well (since you have no way of geting alot of your enchantments to your graveyard this card is not going to help you much).

Seal of Cleansing would be best but if you can get some space for Word of Wind in your deck it would be better.


WingsOfDaidalos im sorry to say this but out of all the enchantress decks I have sean yours is the one that looks the most messy and out of place. Look at the other decks in this thread plus look them up in other places. Its one thing to build one its another to know how it works and why it works that way.



Well so I dont waste any space with another post (and since this one came back and is not locked yet). Ill post how mine looks now.

Deck List

Lands 20
8 Forest
4 Plains
4 Windswept heath
1 Savannah
2 Wasteland
R Strip Mine

Creatures 12
4 Argothian Enchantress
2 Auratog
4 Yavimaya Enchantress
2 Verduran Enchantress

Other 28
R Lotus Petal
2 hidden Gibbons
4 Wild Growth
4 Rancor
2 Gaea’s Touch
4 Fertile Ground
2 Sterling Grove
4 Seal of Cleansing
2 Enchantress's Presence
1 Ancestral Mask
1 worship
1 Ivory Mask

Deck Total: 60


If you need any info why I picked any of the cards (otherwise look for one of my old threads).

[WingsOfDaidalos.]

Lol =) I'm sorry, but this just gets me laughing.

I don't even begin comparing my build (which is heavily control-based, and a modification of CooberP's primer) and your (Not-even optimal) aggro build...

It seems to me that YOUR build is kinda out of place here; check the old posts in this thread and CooberP's primer...

::EDITED FOR BETTER REPLY::

All right, lets look at your comments:

City of Brass: Very much needed for Colour-fixing, Overgrown Estate for life securing in the (extremely rare) cases that it puts you in danger.

Library of Alexandria: As stated before, you MUST have 7 cards in your hand each turn. And believe me; you are NOT going to draw half your library in 2 turns. Not if you're playing against a decent deck.

The Abyss: How does it bring disadvantage to me? Enchantress can't be targeted and when stacked right, Mesa's sacced token can be the target for Abyss...

Mirari's Wake: One of the cards I held in doubt, it really fastens the kill.

[Law]

Sorry im just used to my build mostly thats all. Im in kinda a scrubby meta (yes people have power but they dont use it the right way most of the time  :lol: ).

Yes I know mines not the best build of the deck. It just the best I can do (for now).

I did not say compare yours to mine. Since yes mine is an aggro combo. Yours is a combo control. They play different thats just the way they are. I put mine in the same post so not to waste space.


Your only running three colors the city is not needed that much (it does help your deck though).

With the Library of Alexandria im basing it off the fact that a) my deck it would not helmp me since I can and have drawn my deck in one or two rounds (or have gotten down to 2-5 cards left) b) I dont have any to test with

With The Abyss I forgot you only had argothin in. So yah it wont harm you to much.

To me Mirari's Wake just costs to much for the deck. 5cc is kinda pushing it for me (unless it was my kill card but thats different). Plus in my build I usely have all the mana I need.


So I might not be the best at helping people. But at least I try anyway.

[Jacob Orlove]

Sorry for bumping an old thread, but hey, its better then starting a new one, isn't it =)

No. Not when the thread is this old. Closed. Start over in a new thread.