[Deck] Dragon - Driving through the Hate

[Sytupal]

You don't feel that 19 mana producers are too weak like everyone else? :rock:

I  don't have the luck or love from the bazaars like you do adam and yes i have seen it second hand at the Lovely Gathering.   I feel Compulsion has won me games i would have otherwise lost.  Besides that I feel that it must be seen before the tournament starts whether or not Deeds are maindecked?   My opinion?    I want to bring the count up to 4 FoW, 4 Xantid Swarms and 4 Stifle however and cutting Compulsions would allow me to do that.  Again something worth testing.  I feel that cutting my Intuition count down to 2 would be a good idea as well but it hasn't happened as of yet.

Thanks for the reply~ as you always spark conversation.

[Tychoides]

It's all about the 5 proxy builds my friend.   They're so abundant that it's hard not to find them somewhere.  Nowadays I'd consider any deck that was "5 proxy ready," budget.

Around my area, local T1 tournaments aren't that abundant, much less ones with 5 proxy rules. I guess it all depends on your area.

Plus, I'm of the opinion that budget builds should be built with cards that cost no more than $20 each (with maybe a small exception here and there), making them easy to get individually for those people without jobs or much income. I guess it all depends on your idea of budget, though.

[Sytupal]

After consideration in many areas on my build I've made a few changes that should improve some of my standings against decks.

A few notes first:

In Kerz' latest thread
http://www.themanadrain.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=9347

Smmenen stated that

b) you should also test decks that try to do specific things or implement certain tactics or strategies. For instance, the belcher deck can gauge your deck's strength against all-or-nothing combo decks. Or, against mono blue to see what happens if you play against a wall of counters. These decks aren't necessarily good so much as they test key type one pressure points at extremes. The same reasoning applies to testing against Stupid Red Burn.

And I completely agree - I've recently been playing around with decks such as this so people in my area could playtest against them and i could playtest as well.   It's really already known at least somewhat that Dragon doesn't like counters.   Recently many dragon players have either quit dragon to play something else or have adapted their build to accomodate the rise in counters.  I took that jump in the very beginning and i plan to jump a little farther right now..

Here's the list with the newest updates along with a few notes.

Mana Production: 19

4 Polluted Delta
3 Swamp
2 Island
2 Underground Sea
2 Bayou
1 Tropical Island
1 Sol Ring
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Black Lotus


Draw/ Fetch/ Tutor 17

4 Bazaar of Baghdad
4 Squee, Goblin Nabob
2 Intuition
2 Compulsion
2 Lim-Dul's Vault
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor


Hate/ Control 11

4 Xantid Swarm
4 Force of Will
3 Stifle


The Win(s) 14

2 Necromancy
3 Animate Dead
2 Dance of the Dead
4 Worldgorger Dragon
1 Ambassador Laquatus
1 Caller of the Claw


Sideboard: 15

2 Null Rod
2 Defense Grid(If these come out against any sort of control i win....even a force costs 3, a life and a card)
3 Tormod's Crypt
3 Pernicious Deed
1 Sliver Queen
3 Plated Slagwurm(in my metagame with scrubs running rampant this is a better option than Verdant)
1 Verdant Force


My biggest Note.   I've cut my animate spells down to 7 as it too was the only option for cards to cut.  I don't like it nor do i think it will work.  I do feel that i should try it however and see how it fairs.  

FoW and Xantid count has increased and I cut an Intuition to do so.   With my mana light resources an extra 3 cc drop is uneccessary since i only want to have to cast necromancies at 3 in long games.  Inutiotions turn into pitches at this point.

I hope my changes keep Dragon going strong.  I don't feel that Bazaar of Baghdad will get restricted however ill_Dawg.  This is an easily hated out deck and has far from become the most dominant in Type 1.

-Rich

[RoadTrippin]

Mana Production: 19

4 Polluted Delta
3 Swamp
2 Island
2 Underground Sea
2 Bayou
1 Tropical Island
1 Sol Ring
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Black Lotus


Draw/ Fetch/ Tutor 17

4 Bazaar of Baghdad
4 Squee, Goblin Nabob
2 Intuition
2 Compulsion
2 Lim-Dul's Vault
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor


Hate/ Control 11

4 Xantid Swarm
4 Force of Will
3 Stifle


The Win(s) 14

2 Necromancy
3 Animate Dead
2 Dance of the Dead
4 Worldgorger Dragon
1 Ambassador Laquatus
1 Caller of the Claw


Sideboard: 15

2 Null Rod
2 Defense Grid(If these come out against any sort of control i win....even a force costs 3, a life and a card)
3 Tormod's Crypt
3 Pernicious Deed
1 Sliver Queen
3 Plated Slagwurm(in my metagame with scrubs running rampant this is a better option than Verdant)
1 Verdant Force

Here are the qualms I feel with your list right off the bat:

7 Animate Spells- I'd honestly rather play a 61 card deck with 8 Animate spells than cut one to make room and try to justify it later on.

19 Mana Sources- It can be fine no doubt in combo decks, but not so much in one where you typically spend at least one early turn using a land drop on a combo enabler (Bazaar obviously). Not only that, but your manabase is suboptimal. There's absolutely no need for the 5 basics. Mana Crypt is a card- and a pretty good one at that. Off color Moxen would probably be better than basics in this case as well... So what I'm saying here is 19 sources is just dandy, it's which 19 that matters.

2 Intuition- Ill did it, but it doesn't mean you should automatically. I think you seriously underestimate this card in this deck especially when you're only running 2 Compulsions with 2 Intuitions. All this does is make the deck weaker.

4 Xantid Maindeck- it's obviously a very strong card. In our metagame you absolutely do not need 4 maindeck, especially when you run 4 Force of Will. I might as well address the 2 defense grids SB while I'm here- I obviously fully understand the merits of defense grid as I played with them (3) in my maindeck from Judgment to Mirrodin- a full 15 months, mainly because I didn't pick up cards for the green splash with my brief hiatus, allowing me to switch to Xantids. Let's look at this:  you run 4 Xantid maindeck, 2 Grid sideboard, 4 Force of Will maindeck, and 3 Stifle which are mainly used vs. control. That's just way too much. Cut the Grids, maybe move a Swarm to the sideboard. 3 Stifle is also something I would reconsider, although it is surely a strong card.

Sliver Queen sideboard- Why? Honestly, what do you side this in against? Again I surely understand the strengths of this card as I "discovered" it during the summer, but it's just a wasted slot. Either maindeck it, or realize you aren't ever going to use it. I'd recommend it maindeck over Caller as there is actually a reason so side in Caller, and Queen can be a beatstick which you would probably use more often than you'd expect- not to mention pitchability.

Plated Slagwurm- It's absolutely not better than Verdant. Verdant wins the prison matchup, and is just as good (if not better) vs. Aggro/creature-based strategies.

I hope this discussion will help, and not be too one-sided.

[BreathWeapon]

How exactly is emphasizing a more controling build of Dragon with MD Stifles and Perncious Deeds doing anything more than encouraging people to play a worse deck than HULK?

[Toadza]

First of all great deck! very competive. I have been running my B/U version for about 6 months now and have noticed a few things you may have over looked.
 the power of Duress, the first turn Duress is powerfull against any deck build what ever there type. Regardless if you pull a force of will, Duress, mana drain, swords, Ground seal, Chalice of the Void, or The Sphere of resistance. It really does not matter. the idea of running any type of control is to give your self more time to get your combo. The card that removes the most posibiltys of "answers" for your combo would be the best option for you.
 also ,Why no Stroke of genius? this is an instant kill, this could be rather important against a Sly deck that may get one more untap and upkeep to bolt you. Even the Ambassador Laquatus does not kill the turn it comes out. the sliver queen relys on an attack for the win. What of Wraith of God or Balance. Or even the Pathetic Plat' Angel. Neither the Ambassador, Stroke, nor Sliver Queen has any answer for this.  As a remedy to this situation some have found the power of Shivin Hellkite as a possible win condition yes you now have to splash a red source but its a instant victory against the angel.
 You also mention your mana base is a tad weak I actully find this overly strong. I have noticed most builds that would run Wasteland would only run the four. and maybe the one Strip'. I was running 4 Polluted Delta, 4 underground sea, 4 swamp, 4 island and 1 flooded straind. this allowed me effectively 9 ways to have a duelland in play also it gave me the option of grabbing a basic land if Wasteland was an issue giving me 9 sources of each duel, swamp, or island. this is encredbly effective while playing to be able to switch your motives towards speed and effectiveness (duel) or trusty and true (basic land). also if you look at the numbers you only have to worrie about them having 4 wastelands if you have 4 duelands you have just as much chance as drawing them as they do. and if you run your four fetches you have effectivey doubled your chances of grabing that much desired duel land so even if they get the one wasteland against you you still have 7 ways to get a nother duel where they are waiting for there 1 of 3 wastes to show up.

all in all you have a very competive build surly more powerful than mine I'm just not fully convinced of the up side of sliver queen and your lack of faith in duress.

[Siral]

I had used dragon in my last 4 tournaments here in italy (4 top8 and 2 final) every time with different decklists and this is what i discovered:

Mana Base

No matter how many duals you play, opponent wasteland are always waiting for your bazaar so the real motive to play some basic lands is to avoid Blood Moon (or back to basics) and so i think that 1 swamp and 1 island is enough to survive. I prefer to use mana crypt in the place of the 2 mox off colore since it gives 2 mana at the cost of one card.

Animate Spell

8 Animate spells are necessary in this deck. In about 100 matches played with this deck i need to see 5-6 animate spells in a game to win (some discarded for bazaar, some countered) so i feel too risky play with only 7 animate spells

Draw and Search

I'm not a great fan of compulsion or lim-dul's vault. I play 2 Deep Analisys, 1 entomb and 1 mystical tutor in those 4 slots and i found thems always great cards (Deep Analisys above all)

Stifle

In every version of my dragon decks i play 3 stifle. They are simply too strong.

Protection

With the trinisphere becoming legal duress is more important than xantid swarm so besides 4 fow i like to play 3 or 4 duress (depending on the metagame i'll expect)

Killing

I feel that Ambassador is strong enough to be the only one killing method of the deck but i have a secondary plan with the wish for the stroke in the sideboard. Caller of the claw becomes a great kill if root maze becomes more popular in many decks (besides oshawa stompy)

Sideboard

3 Verdant and 3 Xantid are 6 slots that i never touch in my decklists. I use only 2 deed because they are so difficult to cast and above all to have slots for wish targets like tranquil domain, naturalize, stroke of genius or coffin purge. I'd like to play 3 chalice of the void to improve the matchup vs TPS (very popular here in italy) but can't find room

[Masticor]

Well i just wanted to point out that it ist still possible to make good results with Dragon on a T1 Tournament.
I will post a link with the Top8 soon when it is online. So i will not post andy Deckist so far  

What i have to say why do you want to cut your Animate Spells ??? When you expect a lot of Aggro itt is maybe possible to reanimate a good Creature of the opponents Graveyard and against Control you don`t have to fear the Animate Spell could be the Target of a Counterspell then you just cast another one.
Necromancy with its instant Speed has become even more important.