Welder MUD: Revised and set for '04

[The Hamburgler]

The type one meta-game in 2003 has been around the bock a few times, except for one deck. Welder MUD is still very viable in the meta-game, but really needs to be put to the test and be revised. The deck needs play testing, environmental changes and to be more flexible, packing answer to cards that affect the smoothness and versatility of the deck.
   In the past, current and the ever changing but hopeful future metagame Welder MUD has been strong and stayed stable. Now the task at hand is to improve its chances at the future of the metagame. This is the best time of all to be working on a deck like MUD, with two more artifact biased sets on the verge, Dark Steel and Fifth Dawn, Workshop decks are about be at it’s peek. This is one of my first lists of Welder MUD:

Welder MUD: 2003
Creatures (10)
4 Metal Worker
4 Goblin Welder
2 Karn, Silver Golem

Lockdown (21)
4 Smokestack
4 Tangle Wire
4 Sphere of Resistance
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Winter Orb
2 Powder Keg
1 Mindslaver

Draw Engine (5)
4 Grafted Skullcap
1 Memory Jar

Mana (24):
7 Mountain
4 Mishra’s Workshop
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Black Lotus
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Vault

SB:
3 Rack and Ruin
3 Tormod’s Crypt
3 Blood Moon
3 Mind’s Eye
3 Mindslaver


Now to start on the sideboard. The deck’s that need to be taken into notice are mainly combo. In the current meta-game that includes Dragon, Rector and the newly introduced Belcher. Welder MUD can handle most aggro and is made to hose control. Dragon and Rector are very weak to fast graveyard hate. Since Dragon’s extreme popularity and success I decided to bump the amount of Tormod’s Crypt up to four. This is the old sideboard:

3 Rack and Ruin
3 Blood Moon
3 Mindslaver
3 Mind’s Eye
3 Tormod’s Crypt

   To start, I made an obvious decision to add Mind’s Eye to the main deck and subtract the Grafted Skullcap. Mindslaver was a weak card in most general matches, seeing as there are very scarce amounts of decks around in my current environment. So the following changes accured:

-2 Mind’s Eye
-3 Mindslaver

+3 Red Elemental Blast
+1 Tormod’s Crypt
+1 Blood Moon

Now, this will seem like a strange move. But I have decided to use three Triskelion sideboard, and one main deck. This is in light of the mirror, I have decided to cut Rack and Ruin for it. Seeing as Triskelion is good verses aggro, and Rack and Ruin is just for the Workshop mirror.

+3 Red Elemental Blast
-3 Rack and Ruin

The new Sideboard:
4 Blood Moon
4 Tormod’s Crypt
4 Red Elemental Blast
3 Triskelion

The new sideboard has overcome the weakness of old, by putting in Triskelion I have a much more versatile sideboard. In the old sideboard I had far less options when playing against certain decks. In the new sideboard I tried to expand my horizon of “sideboard capabilities”. By doing this I create a more vast variety of decks that can be sideboarded against. I realize not to hate certain cards, but to hate certain decks. For instance, using Blood Moon ruins Keeper, Tog, and virtually any multicolored control deck. The same idea elaborates on Triskelion. It has a lot of great matches, most importantly the mirror.

The sideboard has been sorted out. Now here is my most recent list of the main deck, and following it will be card explanations.


Creatures (11)
4 Metal Worker
4 Goblin Welder
2 Karn, Silver Golem
1 Triskelion

Lockdown (18):
4 Smokestack
4 Tangle Wire
4 Sphere of Resistance
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Winter Orb

Draw Engines (5):
3 Mind’s Eye
1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Memory Jar

Mana-base (26):
7 Mountain
4 Mishra’s Workshop
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Ruby
1 Black Lotus
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault

Card Analysis:

Metal Worker:
This decks greatest advantage over other normal control decks is it’s amazing speed, and aggressiveness, while still maintaining a dominant control. But in order to get the dominant control out fast enough you need the speed, and that’s where this little metal guy comes in. He allows the deck too have broken second and third turns, and maximizes card advantage as a mana producer, a chump blocker (it happens) and a non- Workshop mana producer to feed Karn, Silver Golem and Mind’s Eye. Also allows Chalice of the Void to be set at a respectable number early on, giving a full out advantage over GAT and Hulk (Chalice for three = ‘Insert ugly dead face on a platter here’). This is also a Flagbearer, or so too speak, every time this gets dropped, I see the opponent’s eyes widen, and they immediately start pondering method’s to get rid of it before it’s too late (recur the picture of dead face on platter…here). I have seen deck’s waste Dark Ritual’s, Black Lotus and most of all Tutors, they will waste tutor’s to find answer’s, and in combo decks too waste a tutor is like to rip out your spleen, smile and use it as dental floss (over-exaggerations should be noticed).

Goblin Welder:
The MVP verses control, and allows some serious amount of games to be played with your opponent. Also abuses permanent advantage, with the ability to Welder out Winter Orb, Smokestack, Tangle Wire and Sphere of Resistance at the end of your opponents turn, maximizing the amount of advantage on your side of the field verses theirs. Goblin Welder is amazing when used with Mindslaver, because taking control over their every move every turn may come in handy every once and awhile. When abused with Memory Jar it gets disgusting, seeing as you can use Memory Jar’s ability, draw 7 cards, weld it back in, do it again, then at end of turn you get too choose the order of the stack as to which hand comes back first or second, so if you remove a hand with one card, then a hand with 7, draw 7 cards from the Memory Jar, and then take the hand with one hand, discard, then take the removed pile with seven and keep it, which extends the amazing use of it to a state where it is abused beyond recognition. Also a very key role in the mirror matches between other workshop decks, and allows them too put a lock – on themselves.

Smokestack:
This is a very consistent lamb too be sacrificed too the greater good, the sideboard. In other words, in a good amount of matches this is the first card to be side boarded out. This might sound weird, it seems to be there whenever I need it, and has yet to be downright bad except in the Long match up, which will be extinct January first anyways. Although it is called the decks weakest lock, I have to disagree. The deck has no “weakest lock” it only has locks that work together, but this with any other lock piece is amazing. True it is the worst alone but when used with Tangle Wire and you can stack their upkeep, making them sacrifice permanents first it is very affective. With Sphere of Resistance it maximizes the Smokestack effect and the Sphere’s effect. Meaning all spells cost one more so it kills out basically a land, so if they have to go down to three lands really they have two. That is why it is extremely dangerous to let all three-lock pieces resolve.

Sphere of Resistance:
Slows down early threats and maximizes the effects of Tangle Wire and Smokestack. Allows the five strip effects to become very hard-hitting, and has the same effect as destroying two of their lands for the price of your one. It has a very nice effect on GAT, allowing it to only play one to two spells a turn, and Karn, Silver Golem is still an amazing chump blocker versus the deck.

Tangle Wire:
Very good, the counters have excellent synergy with Goblin Welder. It has proved very overpowering vs. aggro when played at the right time. It hardly affects the deck at all, considering that you get to stack your upkeep as you choose, meaning you can remove a counter, and then tap. Also you can tap the Tangle Wire itself, meaning you tap two less permanents than your opponent does, which is the exact advantage this deck feeds, as long as they bleed more, and first.

Chalice of the Void:
 The main reason for this card is to eliminate one of the deck’s hardest matches, Fish. Although Chalice of the Void was weakened by the extinction of Long, it still plays a key role in the establishment of the initial lock, obtain it, and then protect it. I can’t stress this enough, Chalice of the Void ‘hates the hate’. A Chalice of the Void for two destroys control decks, Fish and Grim Monolith + Power Artifact J.

Mindslaver:
A very key card, I personally like it a lot, it provides an excellent staple over any deck that uses spoils, bargain, Necropotence, Demonic Consultation and basically any loss life/ disadvantage that was meant too use on your opponent, but instead was used on you. It is very exceeding in the GAT/ Hulk match up, the Dragon match up (if early enough, which isn’t impossible if they are stalled from Chalice for two or a Tormod’s Crypt in play). Also an obvious allegiance with Goblin Welder, and a very easy lock too obtain.
 

Winter Orb:
A personal favorite, and barely affects your manabase while running 12 lands that stay in play. The real reasons this made the list is due too an apparent uprising in Landstill, Fish and Control/ Keeper variants, and its ability to hose all of them. Winter Orb is a very accelerating card in the deck; it neutralizes Smokestack by sacrificing the tapped lands.


Karn, Silver Golem vs. Goblin Charbelcher as kill condition:
A lot of people have surprised me by saying that Belcher is the best, but I personally think Karn, Silver Golem isn’t a ‘if’ card, it is a solid kill in a very solid deck. Why put Belcher in to make it less solid? As some people argue, it gets rid of threats in play, but I tested and it seemed every time I shot it, or belched it at a creature it got 40 damage, then I went at them and got 4. Too unreliable, and when a Belcher – Addict (Cocaine got boring) was having a conversation online with me he thought Belcher was a turn faster, and more efficient over Moat and creature removal. This does not make sense due to you either Welder Karn, Silver Golem back. Plus everyone sideboard’s artifact hate, not creature hate against the deck.

Mind’s Eye:
I was reluctantly forced to try it out against my will, but after only a week of testing this turned out top – notch quality, and finally a better mechanism than that junk Grafted Skullcap. It looks like a card that doesn’t fit in the list, seeing as it’s non – workshop mana to activate. Leaving one open isn’t a rigorous task, and you get the same effect except less open to a very painful Hurkyl’s Recall.

Sideboard:
Blood Moon:
This is the best card in the sideboard and in some matches in the entire deck. It affects you but once again, the entire base of all workshop decks is as long as they are affected more. This hands you game winning advantage over Keeper, Landstill, Fish (some variants) any multicolored control, Hulk and GAT.

Tormod’s Crypt:
Dragon hate for the most part, this isn’t an option card, Dragon has been winning too many tournaments, and Tormod’s Crypt still isn’t a game ender, it just slows the deck way down, allowing me too play Chalice of the Void for two, and when possible for three as well. This helps versus the mirror, reanimate, and Academy Rector biased decks.

Red Elemental Blast:
This I disagreed with when I was playing with Grafted Skullcap over Mind’s Eye. Now it is the best answer to Hurkyl’s Recall, Energy Flux and any blue spell that just happens to annoy me. This is more of a defensive counter than an offensive one. Meaning it is set up to reassure your Goblin Welder/Metalworker resolving.

Triskelion:
This is much better in the mirror than Rack and Ruin. It kills off Goblin Welder and Metalworker. It has better options as well, helps out in the Ninja matchup, and any aggro such as Fish as the prime example. I like to have cards that can be boarded in against a lot of decks, and Rack and Ruin has a lesser amount of usefulness than Triskelion. Triskelion is also very helpful in the Fish like matches, as in the games against decks that use control and aggro.


Part One: Combo
Combo wins extremely fast in the current environment, decks like Dragon, Rector-Tendrils and Belcher can kill as fast as first turn. The general play against combo is to slow them down. The perfect cards for this are Tangle Wire, Chalice of the Void, Sphere of Resistance and Wasteland. The other key to combo is in the second game to mulligan aggressively. Against Dragon and Rector biased decks it is a necessity to play a Tormod’s Crypt first turn. Tangle Wire is an excellent card to buy you time. It slows down Dragon the most, with it’s lacking of permanents and little free mana sources. The key card’s to defy the current combo’s in the deck are:

1) Tangle Wire
It is a very effective play on the first turn, and buys you the time that combo has to win in. It allows you to mature locks and get a control of the board. Tangle Wire’s biggest role in the deck is to buy time. Time is exactly what you don’t have against a combo deck and it is a very key advantage.

2) Chalice of the Void
Chalice of the Void is a very flexible card. It has a mass amount of decks where it plays into a key role. Against combo, and specifically the infamous Dragon it can put a stopper to two of the most key cards in the deck, Animate Dead and Dance of the Dead. Although this does not put an end to the deck, or even the game it slows them down enough for you to get the Tormod’s Crypt, lock or kill.

3) Tormod’s Crypt
Tormod’s Crypt is the most effective stopper to Dragon and Academy Rector biased decks. With Tormod’s Crypt you can remove Academy Rector before your opponent gets to choose about using it’s ability. It has excellent synergy with Goblin Welder, which is why it is so effective. You can recur the Tormod’s Crypt after using its effect, this way they cannot respond with Necromancy.

4) Sphere of Resistance
Now you may be skeptical but when Long was in, and with Stephen Menendian going 6-2 with Long in Waterbury I begin to sense a recurrence in the deck. It is effective with Wasteland, and stops every Tendril’s of Agony biased deck.


Part Two: Control
Control is by far the deck’s best match up. Some control decks are Keeper, Hulk, GAT, Urphid and EBA. The best thing against control in the deck is by far, Goblin Welder. It assures the resolution of all of your artifacts, and make counters duds. Blood Moon is a very effective stopper of most control decks, with it’s drastic effect on the manabase of virtually any multi-colored control deck. The most important cards in the control matchup’s are:

1) Goblin Welder
Allows the deck to be played fearlessly and almost breaching the over-aggressive side of the deck. It breaks down decks, maximizes the effect of Smokestack and allows you to stop the “I bleed you bleed” policy of the deck and instead the only person who is hindered by Smokestack, Tangle Wire, Winter Orb, Sphere of Resistance and in Chalice of the Void is your opponent.

2) Chalice of the Void
Along with all of its other purposes, when set at two it puts an entire halt to control, specifically Keeper. From what I have seen in Keeper and through play testing, Chalice of the Void stops the daunting Hurkyl’s Recall, Isochron Scepter, draw engines and search engines for answers to the deck or situation. It really does its job in “hating the hate”.

3) Smokestack
Now this may be regimental, but this is a result of some solid play testing. Most control decks, nearly all of them, have a major weakness. Lack of permanents. Smokestack enables the capitalization of the effect, and can chomp down on decks like Keeper’s mana-base. With late game kills like Morphling, Decree of Justice (sometimes) and Goblin Trenches Smokestack is allowed to pave the way for a lockdown.

4) Winter Orb
Modern day control is based on cards like Isochron Scepter, draw mechanism’s (Accumulated Knowledge etc.) counters and staying one step ahead of your opponent. Winter Orb is successful in voiding all of these necessities for the deck. If the deck cannot consistently counter spells and draw cards, it turns into a weakness, a poison that slowly but surely wears down the deck, until there are no mana left to play counters or any draw mechanisms. When combined with Tangle Wire and/ or Sphere of Resistance it really becomes critical.

Part Three: Aggro
Aggro is the longest lasting branch in the family tree of magic. Therefore, it has a vast difference in each deck. Some aggro decks are more suicidal in my opinion, decks like Goblins, Stompy, R/G Beats and various fast creatures deck. The other side of aggro, the more hybrid of control/aggro are decks such as; Fish, Oshawa Stompy, Gay Wizards, Landstill and TnT.

Upcoming Potentials/ Goodies:
Trinisphere -  
Artifact (R)
As long as Trinisphere is untapped, each spell that would cost less than three mana to play costs three mana to play. (Additional mana in the cost may be paid with any color of mana or colorless mana. For example, a spell that would cost   to play costs   to play instead.)
154/165

Trinisphere is an excellent card, but it is a slot in the deck that needs to be prudently advised and revised. I say this because it can’t be just tossed in in place of it’s obvious demeanor Sphere of Resistance. On a more positive note, it is one f the best first turns the deck can do. Seeing as you get almost two Time Walks from it. Your opponent can only play lands while you can drop a Metal Worker and unload threats and get hard established locks before your opponent can cast a mox. Try it out with Lodestone Myr, and other tap artifact effects to maximize the effect on your opponent and not on you.

Crucible of Worlds –  
Artifact R
You may play lands from your graveyard as though they were in your hand.

This can prove the best hard lock in the deck. An every turn Wasteland and Strip Mine puts a certain end to control against the deck. It will open up artifact lands in MUD and City of Traitors. Congruent to it’s contender it has to be treated with delicacy and can’t be thrown into Welder MUD, it has to branch out. Try more hybrid builds with these cards, especially Trinisphere.

In a week I will be playing in a five proxy tournament on Cape Cod at The Gathering. If you have any questions about my deck, or Welder MUD in general I will be there, ask around. I will be posting the results of how I did in this tournament, my matches and some things I should have done differently. I am currently testing out the Trinisphere and it looks amazing, and as I said before it is a Time Walk for two turns when played first turn.
                                                                 - The Hamburgler

[Flurp™]

This deck seems light on mana with only 25 sources, most wMUD i have seen/played run closer to 30.  My suggestion is cutting the mindslaver and winter orbs for three city of trators (or acient tomb).

I also really like trinisphere, but I can't choose what to cut for it.  I want to test out at least two of them in my wMUD build, but they dont replace any of the other lock parts so its not clear what to cut.

[riggy]

I've been playing mud-based slaver for a while, so my focus has changed from what your deck is trying to do, but I have found several changes to be for the best.

One, add 1 copy of lightning greaves. Someone suggested it to me a month ago and I haven't regretted it.

Two, I also agree about the mana sources, and I like the changes you made increasing it to 25. I run 25 + 4 metalworkers.  Also, I added 4 Great Furnaces (replacing mountains). They have synergy with metalworkers & welders. Also, after playtesting it, I agree with a couple of people from the old forums that 1 Gilded Lotus works pretty well. Since you're not splashing blue, it's not a priority, but it's still one more non-land mana source.

Third, try sideboarding (or I even MD) 2 Jester's Caps. With a decent start, you can pop one second turn (or first, if you're lucky) and they really play hell with combo.

Lastly, I noticed you cut Sol Ring from your deck. I'm not sure if that's just an omission or not, but it should probably stay in.

Final advice:
-2 Winter Orb
-1 Mind's Eye
-5 Mountains

+1 Lighning Greaves
+1 Sol Ring (replacing the 5th mountain that I cut)
+4 Great Furnaces
+2 Jester's Caps

That's really about all I can offer. I started evolving my old MUD deck into various stacker and slaver builds and I can't get back into the old mono-red mindset. Tinker and Thirst for Knowledge are just too nice.

[Toad]

You need more mana sources. Try to fit in at least 1 more land and the obviously missing Sol Ring. You can afford to run only 6 Mountains and hence more utility lands (Petrified Field or Ancient Tomb), as Goblin Welders are not strong first turn plays.

There is no point in running a lone Mindslaver in a deck with no tutors and a long term draw engine. A third Winter Orb or Powder Kegs would be better. This would make the Triskelion less needed, and you can swap it for an other Powder Keg.

Null Rod is painful for the deck. Don't make it better by running Mind's Eye. Null Rod is everywhere, and sees much more play than Hurkyl's Recall.

FYI, here is my last updated build, post Mirrodin :

// Mana base -- 26
        1 [card]Tolarian Academy[/card]
        2 [card]Ancient Tomb[/card]
        4 [card]Mishras Workshop[/card]
        6 [card]Mountain[/card]
        1 [card]Black Lotus[/card]
        1 [card]Mana Crypt[/card]
        1 [card]Mana Vault[/card]
        1 [card]Mox Emerald[/card]
        1 [card]Mox Jet[/card]
        1 [card]Mox Pearl[/card]
        1 [card]Mox Ruby[/card]
        1 [card]Mox Sapphire[/card]
        1 [card]Sol Ring[/card]
        4 [card]Metalworker[/card]
// Lock Components -- 23
        4 [card]Chalice of the Void[/card]
        4 [card]Smokestack[/card]
        4 [card]Sphere of Resistance[/card]
        4 [card]Tangle Wire[/card]
        4 [card]Wasteland[/card]
        2 [card]Gorilla Shaman[/card]
        1 [card]Strip Mine[/card]
// Dudes -- 6
        2 [card]Karn, Silver Golem[/card]
        4 [card]Goblin Welder[/card]
// Draw engine -- 5
        1 [card]Memory Jar[/card]
        4 [card]Grafted Skullcap[/card]
// Sideboard -- 15
 SB:  3 [card]Ensnaring Bridge[/card]
 SB:  4 [card]Rack and Ruin[/card]
 SB:  1 [card]Gorilla Shaman[/card]
 SB:  4 [card]Tormods Crypt[/card]
 SB:  3 [card]Jesters Cap[/card]

It is tuned for a Combo and Control metagame (hence the Ancient Tombs and the MD Gorilla Shaman). For a more Aggroish metagame, you can fit in Powder Kegs over Gorilla Shaman and Petrified Fields or Rishadan Ports over the Ancient Tombs. And probably swap the lone SBed Shaman for the 4th Ensnaring Bridge, along with additional SBed Powder Kegs or Serrated Arrows.

Moved to the Open T1 forum
-- Toad

[GoodFellasCorp]

Here is a list of what I most reciently played, which was Waterbury, where I placed 22nd with this exact list.

Welder 2k3
//Draw
1 Memory Jar
1 Wheel of Fortune
3 Mind's Eye

//Creatures
4 Metalworker
4 Goblin welder
2 Karn Silver Golem
2 Triskelion

//Lock Components
4 Smokestack
4 Sphere of Resistance
4 Tangle Wire
4 Chalice of the Void

//Utility
2 Powder Keg

//Mana Producers
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Ruby
1 Sol Ring

1 Mana Vault
1 Grim Monolith

1 Tolarian Academy
1 Strip Mine
4 Wasteland
4 Mishras Workshop
7 Mountain

Overall I was very happy with this build.  I think that the mana base is very nice and it makes the deck run very consistantly.  The only reason why I post this deck for discussion is because of the introduction of darksteel and trinisphere.  After careful consideration I feel that there is a spot for trinisphere and that it should be discussed in the context of a deck rather than just speculation.  

So here is the new list that I propose:

Welder2k4
//Draw
1 Memory Jar
1 Wheel of Fortune
3 Mind's Eye

//Creatures
4 Metalworker
4 Goblin welder
2 Karn Silver Golem
2 Triskelion

//Lock Components
4 Smokestack
3 Sphere of Resistance
3 Tangle Wire
3 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere

//Utility
2 Powder Keg

//Mana Producers
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Ruby
1 Sol Ring

1 Mana Vault
1 Grim Monolith

1 Tolarian Academy
1 Strip Mine
4 Wasteland
4 Mishras Workshop
7 Mountain

I left the smokestack count at 4 because in my opinion it is by far the best lock component in the deck.  I did not really want to cut the sphere of resistance count to 3 but I could not justify cutting anyother card for it. I have kept the lock count the same in numbers but I think adding the trinispheres have made it more diverse. The one spot that I was considering is the wheel of fortune to be pulled and replaced by the 4th sphere of resistance.  Wheel is a great draw 7 but in my experience and testing it is much weaker than memory jar, and not just because jar is an artifact.  Wheel is resolved on the turn it is cast, where as jar can be blown on the next turn which allows for mana to be brought into the new seven cards, where sometimes that is not possible with wheel.  

I am curious to see what the majority of people think about the change that I have made.

Threads merged.
-- Toad

[The M.E.T.H.O.D]

There hasn't been much testing yet on trinisphere, but results will come in soon.  But if you wanted to try it out, I seriously wouldn't recommend lowering the other 3 lock compnents by 1.  I think sphere of resistence is still a whole lot better then trinisphere. But in general your lock components should be four-of's to make the deck reliable and to increase the chances of getting a lock.  Im reallly not all that sure about the trinisphere, but if you wanted to try it out try fitting it in another way.
 My 2 Cents.

[leviat]

Null Rod is painful for the deck. Don't make it better by running Mind's Eye. Null Rod is everywhere, and sees much more play than Hurkyl's Recall.

I just wanted make a quick point here:

Mind's Eye
Artifact
Whenever an opponent draws a card, you may pay . If you do, draw a card.

[card]Minds Eye[/card] is a triggered ability which means it will work just fine with a [card]Null Rod[/card] out.

[Toad]

Yuk, you're right  
 
Grafted Skullcap is still the best choice IMHO, because It's cheaper (yes, even with wMUD's manabase, the 1 mana difference can be an issue), and will give you cards you can use now, not during the next turn. Most of the decks packing Blue also pack Red or White (with the exception of Mono Blue Fish), and all these decks play Rack and Ruin, Energy Flux or Disenchant over Hurkyl's Recall.

[Carlos El Salvador]

Toad, I would just like to point out that there are a tremendiously high amount of recalls in people's SB right now...  We both know it's for wMUD that packs skullcaps.  The stack effect of losing everything is terrible...   Also, can someone tell me what the ruling is on Trinisphere and Sphere of Resistance?

[DEA]

apply sphere of resistance first
if sphere doesn't bring it above 3, trinisphere tops it up to 3

if it's already above 3, trinisphere ignores it

i'm running r/u weldermud with 4 thirsts
blue gives you tinker too, as well as both sides of fire/ice
i took out meditates as they are only useful with active smokestacks, while thirsts are always good. especially with welders
2 lightning greaves for the welders (goddamn lightning rods, y'all)

i originally had artifact lands but took them out when i faced null rods (s.pulse in hand with artifacts lands in play is sucks to be me, for sure)
i only ran 3 metalworkers because my last one got sharpied by accident, and it's been working fine
i'll be testing petrified fields inside for the workshops (which invariably get wasted)

[cssamerican]

Leviat:
I just wanted to point that while Mind's Eye might work under Null Rod, the Moxes or Metalworkers that might generate the mana to pay for that triggered ability does not.
Carlos El Salvador & Toad:
I beleive one of the biggest desicions in which draw engine to run revolves around two things. First how good Ensanring Bridge is in your meta, and secondly how much you see Hurkyl's Recall. In my meta Grafted Skullcap is superior because of your ability to hose aggro with a Grafted/Bridge lock. But from what I can tell about the the northeast metagame Mind's Eye is probably the better choice because of less aggro and more Cunning Wish-->Hurkyl's Recall.

[SpencerForHire]

My question is how does wMud and other shop decks deal with Damping Matrix.. Usually I would just think to weld it out, but with this now being run in a variety of decks it seems like a powerful hoser to stop any workshop deck.

[cssamerican]

Gimbles: You can't Weld it out (Read the card), Smokestack and Rack and Ruin.

[DEA]

personally i like to use shattering pulse or hurkyl's recall
rack and ruin is good too
damping matrix is easier to deal with than null rod because your answers can be cast with artifact mana
also, you can still cast beatsticks like karn, *gasp* darksteel colossus and pentavus to smack the guy for a few

[Toad]

My metagame is full of Control decks, and blue based ones use the all mighty Energy Flux over Hurkyl's Recall, and Rack and Ruin as a Cunning Wish targets, because both Recall and R'n'R win games but R'n'R is more versatile. It's also a better call because Chalice of the Void for 2 is almost an autoplay against every deck packing blue (Mana Drain). The synergy with Ensnaring Bridge is just a nice bonus.

Damping Matrix is not as bad as Null Rod because It just shuts your Goblin Welder. If you really want to get rid of one (to use your Karn, for example), then just ramp up a Smokestack.

[SpencerForHire]

I know you can't weld it, thats why i asked.  Hmm I'm sorry, with this question in mind I forgot about the fact this is wMUD. Sorry.

[The Hamburgler]

Dampening Matrix is a lot of trouble for the deck. It has to be savagely destroyed by either a rampaging smokestack or a Rack and Ruin. When I know decks have certain cards that cause a flux for the deck via Null Rod, Hurkyl's Recall, Dampening Matrix and Rack and Ruin you have to establish a hard lock as soon as possible. The best way to do it is to drop Trinisphere first turn. It gives you two turns to gain control of the game. It generally goes:

1) Mishra's Workshop, Trinishpere

His turn: Land

2) Metal Worker

His turn: Land

3) Metal Worker unloads as many lock mechanisms as possible.

As for the mana-base, I was not impressed with Great Furnace. It has more negatives than it does positives:

Advantages:
Can be Weldered out/in
Metal Worker food
Tolarian Academy food

Disadvantages
Can be targeted by a Wasteland
Affected by Null Rod
A utensil for opposing Goblin Welders

Now, you may think that there are the same amounts. But the cards that put Great Furnace to shame a far denser in the meta than the amount of help it will give you in the deck. Sol Ring is going back in the deck, as I remember it I cut it for a Mox Emerald.

@ GoodFellasCorp:
I read and reread your build, the new one. I didn't think the Powder Keg necessary. Unless aggro is very dense in your environment then I disagree, considering you already have Triskelion main deck. I, as well as others don't think that Trinisphere should be added in the place of other lock components, and if it should, Smokestack would get the cut. Seeing as all you need is one and it is very strong to have multiple Sphere of Resistance on the board. Let me know your thoughts. I think Wheel of Fortune might get the axe in my build as well; filling your opponents hand with answers is not a good idea, especially against control.

@ Toad:
The Grafted Skullcap isn't better, as I think someone told you it is a triggered ability. Ensnaring Bridge was tested but turned weak in my combo-orientated environment. I really want to squeeze in two Jester's Cap, seeing as it is great versus combo and Keeper (only two Decree of Justice). I liked Gorilla Shaman, but sensed Triskelion was better removal with its Welder in and out ability. By the way, thank you for moving my thread.

Duplicant
Am I the only one who has taken this into reason? I think it is a great sideboard card; it copies creatures and removes the board eventually with the Welder effect. Let me know what you think.

Thanks for all the replies! It makes me happy to see threads jump off like this one has, especially when they are mine . Great replies, keep them coming.

[GoodFellasCorp]

@The Hamburgler
The slot that I have for 2 powder kegs was a spot that I had 2 shaman.  They have now found there way to the sideboard because I feel that powder keg is so good main deck.  My thinking behind this is, the only way to get rid of an opponents artifacts is through karn.  That can take too long to get established.  This way I can drop keg and keg for 0 to take out a mox which would allow me to start welding.  It is very good in the mirror.  It is possible to slide the keg to the board but I like to have shaman around incase null rod hits the board.  An of course I feel that keg is better than shaman, because he also allows for the removal of tokens.

Hamburgler how many trinispheres do you think is necessary.  I feel that 3 would be a good number.  Or do you see it more as a sideboard card?

@toad
I have to agree that mind's eye is far superior to grafted skullcap.  As a weldermud player I agree that the one mana can be tuff especially because a lot of times it does not allow you to go active with mind's eye on opponenets next turn.  One use of mind's eye that I don't see people use enough is sacing memory jar and adding mana to their pool, either through academy or through a metalworker and then drawing 10 or 11 cards off  the jar.  This can be especially deadly because with a welder on the board it doesn't really matter what you discard.  It also have great snyergy with ensnaring bridge, because you have no cards on opponents turn but you can sack the jar on your turn draw as many cards as you need to to attack and then at end of your turn you have no cards again so your opponenet can't attack.

WelderMud 2k4 v1
//Draw
1 Memory Jar
3 Mind's Eye

//Creatures
4 Metalworker
4 Goblin welder
2 Karn Silver Golem
2 Triskelion

//Lock
4 Smokestack
4 Sphere of Resistance
4 Tangle Wire
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere

//Mana
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Ruby
1 Sol Ring

1 Mana Vault
1 Grim Monolith

1 Tolarian Academy
1 Strip Mine
4 Wasteland
4 Mishras Workshop
7 Mountain

This would force the issue of playing keg and or shaman on the sideboard and hoping that you avoid first game null rod.  My waterbury sideboard consisted of

3 Blood Moon
3 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Gorilla Shaman
2 Rack and Ruin / which I am now considering putting in shattering pulse
3 Red Blast
2 Tormod's Crypt

I'm also curious what are people's thoughts about the blue splash version of the deck.  I personally like the straight red mud because of the solid mana base that you get from it.  But I noticed that a blue splash finished in the top 8 at waterbury.  What are people's thoughts about the new darksteel blue cards, ie. magnetic flux to give your creatures flying inorder to ensure the win and even eater of days with stilfle?

[JuJu]

My deck is basically the same as GoodFellasCorp except with the following changes

-1 Grim Monolith
+1 Mana Crypt

-2 Trisk
+1 Wheel of Fortune

Mine is 60 cards while his is 61 if anyone asks.Also my sb is different;
4 RaR
4 Tormod's crypt
4 REB
3 Blood Moon

I've been thinking of cutting Sphere of resistance entirely and adding the 4th Trinisphere and 2 more Karn's and an extra Mind's Eye. What are your opinions on this?

[The Hamburgler]

@ Goodfellascorp:
I look at Trinisphere not as a sideboard card but as a Time Walk for two turns, when played first turn. It can establish locks turn three, which is basically turn one for your opponent.

Hamburgler how many trinispheres do you think is necessary. I feel that 3 would be a good number. Or do you see it more as a sideboard card?

Definently not sideboard, it has a good match-up against almost every deck. I, as well, think that three is the best number. You only need one, and drawing them late game is not effective.

Powder Keg
I personally feel that with the decks extensive amount of different casting costs it is painfull at almost every number. The aggro is simply man-handled by Triskelion and Chalice of the Void. It does nothing against Null Rod, Dampening Matrix or Energy Flux so it doesn't get rid of threats.

Shattering Pulse
Rackand Ruin is faster and more dependable. Rack and Ruin is doubted by some with the three non-Workshop mana to make it playable. I feel that Shattering Pulse needs five, otherwise only takes two with it to the graveyard.

My deck is basically the same as GoodFellasCorp except with the following changes

-1 Grim Monolith
+1 Mana Crypt

-2 Trisk
+1 Wheel of Fortune

Mine is 60 cards while his is 61 if anyone asks.Also my sb is different;
4 RaR
4 Tormod's crypt
4 REB
3 Blood Moon

I've been thinking of cutting Sphere of resistance entirely and adding the 4th Trinisphere and 2 more Karn's and an extra Mind's Eye. What are your opinions on this?

Sphere of Resistance is a powerful card, it maximizes effects from Smokestack, Tangle Wire and the five Strip effects.

As for the adding of two more Karn, Silver Golem:
Wouldn't it be unnecesary? They are legendary. Why not try out more threats? Such as Mindslaver, Triskelion, Pentavus or Juggernaut.

Four Trinisphere has been tested and is unnecasary. You only need it first turn/ early game and is bad late game. I think it is a powerful card, but don't let it get to your pants now :shock: .

                                                         - The Hamburgler

[Toad]

@toad
I have to agree that mind's eye is far superior to grafted skullcap.  As a weldermud player I agree that the one mana can be tuff especially because a lot of times it does not allow you to go active with mind's eye on opponenets next turn.  One use of mind's eye that I don't see people use enough is sacing memory jar and adding mana to their pool, either through academy or through a metalworker and then drawing 10 or 11 cards off  the jar.  This can be especially deadly because with a welder on the board it doesn't really matter what you discard.  It also have great snyergy with ensnaring bridge, because you have no cards on opponents turn but you can sack the jar on your turn draw as many cards as you need to to attack and then at end of your turn you have no cards again so your opponenet can't attack.

I've been discussing the Grafted Skullcap vs Mind's Eye issue thousands of time already. There is no point in arguing any more, but don't consider the "mind's eye is far superior to grafted skullcap" as being a fact considered as obvious. I've done thousands of testing games with these cards. My testing method was the following: I played standard games with a special card representing either a Grafted Skullcap or a Mind's Eye. Then I kept tracking the number of cards drawn with these two engines. Grafted Skullcap drew me more cards (average) because It's cheaper (can be dropped sooner on the board, and I'm not even mentionning the few games where I've never been able to cast the Mind's Eye), and because sometimes I'm forced to tap out during my turn to cast lock components, making me unable to use the Mind's Eye ability. You're right, the Memory Jar + Mind's Eye + lots of mana is cool, but it's just a win more situation. Memory Jar + lots of mana also wins game, you don't need Mind's Eye tricks.

The synergy with Ensnaring Bridge has also to be taken into account, even if it's not what makes me play Skullcap over Mind's Eye.

[JuJu]

Sphere of Resistance is a powerful card, it maximizes effects from Smokestack, Tangle Wire and the five Strip effects.

As for the adding of two more Karn, Silver Golem:
Wouldn't it be unnecesary? They are legendary. Why not try out more threats? Such as Mindslaver, Triskelion, Pentavus or Juggernaut.

Four Trinisphere has been tested and is unnecasary. You only need it first turn/ early game and is bad late game. I think it is a powerful card, but don't let it get to your pants now  .

I have to agree that sphere is a powerful card, Hell, it's the only card that I would never ever cut for a lock component in Mud, but is Trinisphere better? Also I didn't state why I wanted to add more Karns, Trikes etc because of the stupidity of me pressing escape on a long ass post ><. I'm saying this because the rise of Aggro is giving Welder Mud a bit of problems and I'm trying to beat the Aggro and still have a solid lock.

I believe you are right about Trinisphere, but to be sure I had to test anyways, its better to learn from your mistakes then ponder about it madly isn't it?

[The Hamburgler]

It is all dependant on your envirement. A control filled envirement where a deck with four creatures is considered part aggro, thats where Mind's Eye is best. In an aggro envirement Grafted Skullcap and Ensnaring Bridge is superior. Overlook your envirement and make sure you don't put a Mind's Eye that gets to draw you one card, it belongs in a place where in atleast a handfull of matches it provides an advantage. It is definently not a hands down argument, and it shouldn't be treated like it is.

Thanks Toad, I would like to know your opinion of your envirement, and why you play Grafted Skullcap over Mind's Eye. Thank you, once again for the replies and info about your build. What do you think of Duplicant in sideboard.

[The Hamburgler]

OK, aggro is becoming more popular and more dense in the meta. That is why I main deck one Triskelion, and sideboard a strong three. I feel it a good idea. I want to put some testing into Duplicant. Any artifact that can be a beatstick, provides removal and can be Weldered back and forth to make it an every turn effect is a good aggro killer in my opinion.

[JuJu]

OK, aggro is becoming more popular and more dense in the meta. That is why I main deck one Triskelion, and sideboard a strong three. I feel it a good idea. I want to put some testing into Duplicant. Any artifact that can be a beatstick, provides removal and can be Weldered back and forth to make it an every turn effect is a good aggro killer in my opinion.

I tryed Duplicant before, and it is good, when it works, you need at least 3 to make it work properly(its better then Trike IMO) but its need to come out fast for it to count against the decks its made to stop. I might look back into it but for now I'm testing Sundering Titan, Duplicant will be my test afterwards.

[Toad]

The main problem in using Triskelion as an anti Aggro card is that Triskelion can't easily deal with Arrogant Wurms, Dreadnoughts or 6/6 Wurm tokens. Here, Ensnaring Bridges would buy you time to settle a better lock and stuff like that. Even in a metagame full of Keeper decks, I'd rather play Grafted Skullcaps, because with the heavy LD component in Keeper (5 Strips + Shaman and a draw engine to get them), getting to 5 manas (or 5+X with Spheres on the board) is often a big problem. I can remember plenty games where I cast a Skullcap by tapping out, hence games where I could not have cast the Eye.

My metagame is really open, ranging from rogue decks to Suicide, Madness, Keeper, Hulk Smash, Workshop decks, etc... Last Top8 here had 5 Workshop decks (4 Prison and myself playing TNT), a Landstill, a Food Chain deck and a Trix. Here I'd play Skullcap over Eye every day. Arthur Tindemans and Koen Van Der Hulst, two of the dude with whom I created Welder MUD, also play with Grafted Skullcap in Netherlands. Same for my Mean Deck teammates Steven Mennendian and Kevin Kron in Colombus.

[The Hamburgler]

I find it pointless to destroy all lands of a certain type right now, with man-lands. The real problem is removal, there are already land destruction in the deck. It lakcs targeted and direct removal, which Duplicant and Triskelion.

[The Hamburgler]

I have played a lot of games with Welder MUD. In none of those have I yet to say, "Man do I want a Grafted Skullcap". I wonder why Smemmen uses it. I wish I could get better opinions about the Skullcap vs. Mind's Eye. Toad obviously created the deck, and worked on it to an extent reachable only by those who have an in-depth understanding of the deck. I am going to test as you said, with a "split card" that can be either a Mind's Eye or a Grafted Skullcap. Thanks for all the help, and for moving my thread.

[Aeneas]

@ the hamburgler

i believe the pros associated with great furnace far outweigh the cons.

Advantages:
-it makes great fodder for your welder.
-it spices up metal worker and academy.

Disadvantages:
-it is wasteland prone.
-it is null rod prone.
-it is fodder for opposing welders.

I believe the disadvantages associated with it are negligible.

-wasteland is the largest threat facing the great furnace and it is not all that significant.  if they do waste it and cut you out of red, odds are you have dropped one of the 4 red spells in your deck already.

-compared to mountain, it is significantly worse when null rod is on the board.  point conceded.

-i find the argument that it can be manipulated by opposing welders to be of little significance.  i do not find there to be many times when there isnt some cheap artifact mana producer on the board for a welder to hit anyways.

thats my take on the furnace.

[BreathWeapon]

Here is what I have settled on playing for now.

Creatures (10)
4xMetal Worker
4xGoblin Welder
2xKarn, Silver Golemn

Lock (16)
4xSmoke Stack
4xTangle Wire
4xTrinisphere
4xChalice of the Void

Draw Engine (5)
3xMind's Eye
1xMemory Jar
1xWheel of Fate

Meta Slots (2)
2xMeekstone (The Tech)

Mana Base (26)
1xTolarian Academy
4xMishra's Workshop
1xStrip Mine
4xWasteland
2xAncient Tomb
6xMountain
7xSoLoMoxen
1xMana Vault
1xMana Crypt

Trinisphere:

Trinishpere is simply better than Sphere of Resistance in every conceivable way, IMHO. Sligh rolls to it, giving you twice as many weapons against Red Aggro.dec. This is important, because Goblins and Ankh Sligh have always had an uncomfortably high win percentage vs Welder MUD for my tastes. Note: Thats not to say that the percentages are in Sligh's favor, far from it, however they are high enough to cause frequent upsets. Considering the popularity of Sligh and Goblins, any card that drives down the win percantages vs Red Aggro is more than welcome MD. Why play 1 Sphere of Resistance vs Weenie Aggro for 2 when you can play 2 Spheres of Resistance for 3 all in one card?

Not only do control decks have to worry about Chalice for 2 on the first turn, but now they have to deal with Trinisphere as well. This really puts a strain on the opponents permission base. Now that Trinishpere forces the opponent to pay 3 for a FOW, Chalice becomes a much more powerful 2nd turn drop option.

Trinisphere also hoses Moxen MUCH better than Sphere of Resistance does. wMUD no longer has to rely on Chalice for 0 to retard the opponent's Moxen. This effectively increases your threat density vs Control and Combo.

Trinisphere clears out almost every 2 CC card in your deck list, short of Powder Kegs or wOrbs (if you still use them). This makes CotV for 2 even more potent vs Control and Suicide ... not that it matters a great deal.

Trinisphere makes casting; Mind's Eye, Smokestack, Karn and Trisk much easier than Sphere of Resistance does. Sphere drives the higher CC of cards out of reach for longer periods than Trinishpere, which only effects 2 cc cards or less. This helps the deck run a lot smoother in turns 3-5 or so.

Mind's Eye:

I may go back to Grafted Skullcap after some very deep thinking. If Aggro is on the influx, having the Bridge SB is simply too crucial vs TnT, Mask and Big O.

Manabase:

I've come to the opinion that 7 Mountains is too many for 4-5 Red cards and Grim Monolith simply isn't worth the deck space. 2 Ancient Tombs help take off some pressure from your Workshops, and they are under utilized in general.

Meekstone:

This is a silly tech card vs; TnT, Mask, Big O and ReAnimator ... all of which have shown up in my local meta. I firmly believe these two slots should be tailored to your personal meta. In Control Fields, wOrb or Blood Moon are strong choices. I only listed Meekstone because it ROCKZ with Tangle Wire. I'll probably run Trisk in a more serious meta than my own to deal with TnT's Welders and Man Lands.

Crucible of Worlds:

I have already play tested with this card a lot, and I absolutely love it in wMUD. I'd say 2 is "about" the right number for the deck, and they should probably take up the 2 ambiguous Meta Slots.