3cb #25 Tournament Results and Discussion

[virtual]

"I would like to congratulate jhaverkamp and wicketsnatcher as the winners of the 25th 3cb tournament

Entrants:
1-   virtual-   The riddle of steel   Mishra's Workshop   Scupting Steel   Steel Golem
2-   jhaverkamp-   Dreadnought's Evil Twin.Dec   Leveler   Black Lotus   City of Traitors
3-   CmdrSam-   Rack Attack   Mishra's Workshop   The Rack   Anvil of Bogardan
4-   wicketsnatcher-   none   Leveler   Black Lotus   City of Traitors
5-   LotusHead-   BlackSun.dec   Sun Droplet   Black Lotus   The Rack
6-   Matt-   Keg Control   Strip Mine   Mishra's Factory   Powder Keg
7-   wonkey_donkey-   theoldbannedlist.dec   Mishra's Workshop   The Rack   Anvil of Bogardan
8-   Lyhrrus-   CullingSteel   Mishra's Workshop   Culling Scales   Steel Golem
9-   xrizzo-   Sweetness   Mishra's Workshop   The Rack   Phyrexian War Beast
10-   thorme-   Get Away From my Ale   City of Traitors   Soldevi Sentry   Powder Keg
11-   Kowal-   none   Mox Jet   Sphere of Resistance   Mishra's Factory
12-   r_x_-      Tabernacle of the Pendrell Vale   Sheltered Valley   Mishra's Factory
13-   Toad-   none   Mishra's Workshop   Culling Scales   Chimeric Idol
14-   Misemaster-   Can't touch this   Mishra's Workshop   Black Lotus   Crumbling Sanctuary
15-   ReverendMetal-   Mishra's Tag Team Redux   Mishra's Workshop   Yotian Soldier   Phyrexian War Beast

Table of results:
x 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5
1 - 6 2 6 6 6 2 2 3 2 3 0 6 2 2 48
2 0 - 3 2 6 6 3 6 6 1 6 6 6 2 6 59
3 2 3 - 3 4 6 2 2 6 2 6 3 2 4 6 51
4 0 2 3 - 6 6 3 6 6 1 6 6 6 2 6 59
5 0 0 1 0 - 2 1 0 0 2 1 2 0 2 1 12
6 0 0 0 0 2 - 0 0 0 2 2 2 2 6 2 18
7 2 3 2 3 4 6 - 2 6 2 6 3 2 4 6 51
8 2 0 2 0 6 6 2 - 6 2 3 0 2 2 2 35
9 3 0 6 0 6 6 0 0 - 2 6 3 0 2 6 40
0 2 4 2 4 2 2 2 2 2 - 4 2 2 6 2 38
1 3 0 0 0 4 2 0 3 0 1 - 2 4 2 3 24
2 6 0 3 0 2 2 3 6 3 2 2 - 6 2 6 43
3 0 0 2 0 6 2 2 2 6 2 1 0 - 2 2 27
4 2 2 1 2 2 0 1 2 2 0 2 2 2 - 2 22
5 2 0 0 0 4 2 0 2 0 2 3 0 2 2 - 19



How to read the table:
 Match the deck# on the left with the deck # on top.  Append a 1 for the last 5 decks.  The #s on the right of that deck correspond to how many points that deck received versus the deck on top.  (Once again append a 1 for the last 5.  The 1's are missing to make the table more clear)

Standing, Name, points

1  jhaverkamp -59
   wicketsnatcher
3  CmdrSam -51
   wonkey_donkey
5  Virtual -48
6  r_x_-43
7  xrizzo -40
8  thorme-38
9  Lyhrrus -35
10 Toad-27
11 Kowal-24
12 Misemaster-22
13 ReverendMetal-19
14 Matt -18
15 LotusHead -12


Please check your own results, and post any discrepancies.  It's easy to foul up the tables.  Thanks for playing.  Hopefully we'll be starting our next 3cb fairly shortly.  Congrats all.

I'd like to talk a bit about the format while I'm here:

Tabernacle was the MVP.  This card caused so many headaches for decks because of their reliance on Mishra's Workshop.

Leveler, and The Rack/Anvil decks were some of the decks defining the format.  Not many people played the rack/anvil deck though, otherwise the results would have been very different.  

I particularly liked Thorme's slow control sentry/keg deck.  That caused fits for many, and though it didn't win them all, it could hold off the big boys, and at least draw with multiple threats.  

Sculpting steel provided some nice tricks for my deck, but failed to be as useful as I hoped it would be.

Anyways, thanks again for playing.  Discuss/enjoy.

-Virtual

[Lyhrrus]

I thought of sculpting steel, but decided against it for scales since it was too reactive.  Unfortunately, I knew it would beat me in the mirror match.  

Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale is evil.

[jhaverkamp]

Wicketsnatcher and I should beat r_x as we can pay for tabernacle with our city of traitors, and he can't stop us or race us with sheltered valley and factory.

We should also get 1 point against thorme as when we are playing first he can't play the powder keg without dying because he doesn't have regeneration mana.

[virtual]

"Noted.  I'll fix it after I give it a little bit of time for other people to respond.  Good catch.  Should've seen the first one though.  Dang.
-Virtual

[wonkey_donkey]

Shouldn't sam and I get an extra point against Lhyrrus and toad? When they play first, if they drop the golem/idol on turn 1, I can drop my hand and race their kill card. Hence they do nothing, so that it's just a draw, I think.

Also, I think I 6-0 against reverendmetal; again, if he drops a threat on turn 1, the rack comes down, and that will deal 2 damage to him in his upkeep. Then the soldier goes, and I am quicker than the warbeast. The same is true against virtual. Don't I also beat xrizzo, as if he goes first he can't really do anything threatening - if he drops the rack, he burns for 2 and I race him. If he drops the beast, I drop my hand and race him.

I was thinking about playing some kind of tabernacle deck, but I preferred the sheer power of anvil/rack. I would have played lotus-necrogen spellbomb-rack, too, but there didn't seem to be any advantages of doing things that way. Some good decks again though...

[thorme]

I think my match against Lyhrrus should go much as my match against Toad and be drawn.

I wait for him to play his Golem, I lay my Keg, he has to lay Scales to keep me from kegging his win away, his scales eventually kill themselves and I play Sentry to keep his Golem perpetually at bay.  


Also, as jhaverkamp noted, decks sporting turn-1 levelers draw against me when they play first....I still get them when I go first though



Good tournament overall.  I didn't realize that my deck would draw so often, although I'm very happy about it's defensive capabilities.  If I'm right about the match with Lyhrrus above, then no deck sports a winning record against mine.  Now I just have to figure out how to make it actually win more.

[wicketsnatcher]

So because jhaverkamp and I each got four more points and r_x_ lost three points, doesn't that make us the winners?

-J:tD

[wonkey_donkey]

Sam and I may overtake you as well as r_x_ and virtual    

[virtual]

Here's the latest table I have:

I made a huge mistake in that I was calculating the rack doing damage on it's owner's turn instead of their opponent's.  

This caused some recalculation, and quite a bit of changes.

If/When I get editing priveledges I'll fix up top, but for now it's down here.

wonkey:  Against me, I won't cast my threat because it can't race your rack.  So I just wait.  If you cast your rack first, then I drop my scales to copy it, and I race you with your own tech.  So we split.  Besides that I think you were right.  

x   1   2   3   4   5   6   7   8   9   0   1   2   3   4   5   
1   -   6   2   6   6   6   2   2   3   2   3   0   6   2   2   48
2   0   -   3   2   6   6   3   6   6   1   6   6   6   2   6   59
3   2   3   -   3   4   6   2   2   6   2   6   3   2   4   6   51
4   0   2   3   -   6   6   3   6   6   1   6   6   6   2   6   59
5   0   0   1   0   -   0   1   0   0   2   1   0   0   2   1   8
6   0   0   0   0   6   -   0   0   0   2   2   2   2   6   2   22
7   2   3   2   3   4   6   -   2   6   2   6   3   2   4   6   51
8   2   0   2   0   6   6   2   -   6   2   3   0   2   2   2   35
9   3   0   6   0   6   6   0   0   -   2   6   3   0   2   6   40
0   2   4   2   4   2   2   2   2   2   -   4   2   2   6   2   38
1   3   0   0   0   4   2   0   3   0   1   -   2   4   2   3   24
2   6   0   3   0   6   2   3   6   3   2   2   -   6   2   6   47
3   0   0   2   0   6   2   2   2   6   2   1   0   -   2   2   27
4   2   2   1   2   2   0   1   2   2   0   2   2   2   -   2   22
5   2   0   0   0   4   2   0   2   0   2   3   0   2   2   -   19

I think maybe we should run this same tournament again, banning dreadnaught, Leveler, and the Rack.  What do people think?  Anything else that should be banned as well?

-Virtual

[Matt]

How did LotusHead (Sun Droplet Black Lotus The Rack) lose to me (Strip Mine Mishra's Factory Powder Keg)? It should be a draw.

I play first:
Factory, go.
Lotus, Drop, Rack.
I take some damage, play Strip Mine, Keg.
He does nothing.
I take some damage, add a counter, Keg for 1 (kills the Rack), and we draw because I deal 2 and he can gain 2 per turn.

He plays first:
Same thing, but maybe I take a little more damage. Still, he can't hit me for 20 before I keg the Rack, and Factory can't race Sun Droplet.

So I do even worse than you thought.

[wonkey_donkey]

fair point virtual, 3-3 it is. my bad.

I quite like the way that bridge, one of the original banned cards, didn't turn up at all. I was also wondering whether it was possible to abuse Chalice of the Void - if I could find a way of incorporating a kill condition along with the option of playing chalice for 0, 1 or 2, I may well have played it. Unfortunately most obvious ways of trying this (lotus-chalice-factory, for example), fail. Any thoughts?

On the topic of future 3CB formats, I'd be tempted to go back to the old version of 3CB, except edit the banned list... a lot. I could try drawing one up, see what people think. Another possibility for 3CB is that the winner of the previous tournament chooses the next format, and you can't have the same format as the previous 2 tournaments - sound any good? Let me know what you think.

Tom

[virtual]

"Ok, I'm really going to have the next 3cb soon.  I finished the standings here.  Hopefully there aren't anymore errors.  What do people want as the next one?  If I don't get any input then I'll just make something up.  So... give me input.

-Virtual

[rvs]

How did LotusHead (Sun Droplet Black Lotus The Rack) lose to me (Strip Mine Mishra's Factory Powder Keg)? It should be a draw.

I play first:
Factory, go.
Lotus, Drop, Rack.
I take some damage, play Strip Mine, Keg.
He does nothing.
I take some damage, add a counter, Keg for 1 (kills the Rack), and we draw because I deal 2 and he can gain 2 per turn.

He plays first:
Same thing, but maybe I take a little more damage. Still, he can't hit me for 20 before I keg the Rack, and Factory can't race Sun Droplet.

So I do even worse than you thought.

It's even simpler matt. you simply do nothing since you cannot possibly race his Droplet. And since he has no threat of his own, it's a 2/2

[Matt]

Anvil of Bogarden seems like the most ban-worthy card to me. It's like a 2cc Blackmail.