[Deck Discussion] Nether Void

[GrafRuediger]

what about using maze of ith ? at least for sideboar
arent they now unrestricted ?
and against blue they should be very effective at least if he wants to kill you with morphling
dunno if this was posted before as i didnt read a many of the other replies

[BrokenNut]

Maze of Ith doesn't work against morphling. They just make him untargetable. But that's besides the point that no one uses morphiling anymore except the few mono blue decks. Keeper has switched to Decree of Justice. And deed works pretty nicely against that since you blow it for 0 and it kills all the tokens. Wumpus admits, he should have left the deed in against the keeper deck. No need to bring in other cards against them when the maindecked card works just fine.

As for the deed v. dragon argument, it is disruption. They CANNOT go off when that is in play with 3 mana open unless they have mox-bazaar-animate effect in hand along with spare mana for the extra animate. Not an easy thing to setup, especially since a wasteland stops that plan as well. If you cast deed against dragon, they either go off then or they have serious issues to deal with for the rest of the game.

Also, deed is disruption in most matches. Either by eating thier board of creatures against aggro, or eating thier moxen and other setup cards such as Phids and Scepters against control. Or against dragon, preventing them from going off. That is disruption since they cannot play thier original game plan, you have DISRUPTED them in doing what thier deck is supposed to do. How you see otherwise is beyond me.

As for keeper players, they are usually busy dealing with your Duress, Hymn to Tourach, Nether Void, and creatures to worry too much about your deed. They run 8 counters, you run much more cards to stop them than 8. And Null Rod? Please, the only thing that works against is Scepters really. Yes it shuts down moxes, but so does deed. Null rod is absolutely horrible against Workshop decks whereas Deed is amazing against them. You know how I know this? Because I actually played it, even against HuntedWumpus here. He got turn 2 Null Rod, still lost quite easily. Why? Because Null Rod doesn't clear the board, it just negates some of my acceleration, not all because I still have workshops/tombs to play with.

[JACO]

@TracerBullet, jeremyc_1999

You have no right to judge what deck I play and what deck I don't play.  Sure, smear me or call me whatever names you like.  I have provided my reasonings:

1.  Deed is a board sweeper, not a disruption.
2.  Timely Disruption is the reason BG void win games, not the 4th Deed.
3.  Cast 2nd turn deed when you can cast "real" disruption does not make sense unless you are playing against aggro.  Hence, the example of 2nd turn deed against Dragon.

They were making an observation based on your comments, most of which have been uninspiring, to say the least. They are your opinions though, so I agree that we should not bash each other.

Conclusion:  In my opinion, all modern/meta version of BG void are more or less a variation of Vegeta's primer with the exact concept, which is half-years old.  Play your 4th deed if you desire so, more wins for me.  Obviously, some of you have not read the article:
http://www.themanadrain.com/primers/bgvoid.htm

Again, this is your opinion, but to me it is quite laughable to suggest that all modern versions of BG Void are based on OS-Vegeta's primer. The directions Pat (TracerBullet) and (especially) I have taken the deck are nothing like Dave's (OS-Vegeta). No disrespect to him either, but I think if you are playing his version (with 4 fetchlands and 4 Mishra's Factories), you are definitely playing a sub-par version. Factory is garbage in this meta, and the lack of (multiple) Llanowar Wastes is just asking for people to decimate your shaky mana-base with Wastelands. Withered Wretch is the second best creature available to the deck, only behind the world-beater that is known as Nantuko Shade. While the primer is grammatically well written, I think that the deck lacks the punch needed for a consistently high showing in top metagames, and his sideboarding analysis is awful (in my opinion). I quote (from the primer):

Vs. Rector Trix:
+3 Cabal Therapy
-3 Pernicious Deed

Vs. Keeper:
+2 Skeletal Scrying
-2 Pernicious Deed

These are examples of poor choices, and after re-reading the primer I now can see where you get your misguided logic from (again, my opinion only).

[JACO]

I personally disagree with Jaco.  It seems as though he feel the mana denial element is either
A- too slow
or
B- too ineffective

I think he's wrong.  I think the mana denial is an absolutely necessary part of your disruptive arsenal.  To say it's too ineffective is absurd, and I'll prove it to him through testing.  The truth of the matter is mana bases are trimmer than ever, and if I can draw a Force or even a Drain with a Sinkhole, I'm ahead in the game...
The mana denial is simply too powerful (and we're not even mentioning Workshops or Bazaars).

Pat, I'm well aware of the mana denial element, and I DO think it's necessary, and great, in the deck. I just don't think Sinkhole is that great, and that's why I've trimmed the number to 2. I also play Dust Bowl (which you don't), and this really does help make up for the loss (especially when you are able to use it 2-4 times), and outside of a Stifle, it is usually un-counterable.

Question:  Is Dust Bowl really that wicked?  You have to sacrifice one of your own lands just for them, and that's not something I feel comfortable doing. I'd just love for someone to explain the logic behind this, as I feel far more protective of my own resources than Dust Bowl permits.

In the sideboard vs. Landstill yeah, I'd side it in.  But I'm not convinced that it's maindeck material.  And besides - what do you cut for it?  I'm already running 9 late hate cards (Strip, Waste, and Sink) - do you add it in regardless and add to the land hate, or do you replace a Sinkhole or 2 with it?

Colder, it's an excellent question. Since I've been the one tooting Dust Bowl's horn so frequently, I will attempt to answer this. Most multi-color decks (like Keeper or Tog or URW Scepter) only play 3-4 of each of their colors. We all know that Wasteland goes a long way to disrupting them in the early to mid game, as does Sinkhole. Dust Bowl pushes this through the mid game and continues it to the end game. No one likes the notion of sacrificing their own cards to destroy an opponent's, but it works very well in eliminating colors they are able to play, taking out unruly Bazaars or Workshops, and/or totally owning man-land based decks. Put it this way, it's been so good to me I would consider dropping the 4th Wasteland for the 2nd Dust Bowl (main deck). It also turns every one of those boring lands you draw later in the game into exciting end-of-opponent's-turn Wastelands.

EDIT: BrokenNut, great points on everything. You are right on the money on how matchups typically play out.

[HuntedWumpus]

Early this week i began testing different cuts for the fourth deed. I cannot find one that satisfies me.  Here is a list of the currect 3 deed build.

Nether Void

8 Swamp
4 Bayou
2 Bloodstained Mire
1 Llanowar wastes
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
1 Mox Jet
1 Black Lotus
4 Dark Ritual
4 Sinkhole
4 Duress
4 Hymn To Tourach
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Nether Void
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Demonic Consultation
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Necropotence
2 Skeletal Scrying
4 Nantuko Shade
3 Withered Wretch
3 Hypnotic Specter

Sideboard
2 Phyrexian Negator
3 Masticore
2 Null Rod
2 Choke
3 Diabolic Edict
3 Naturalize

I dare not trim off the mana base. Its been performing to well. Okay there seems to be several choices.

-1 consult
-1 Void
-1 Wretch
-1 Scrying

I dont really feel that the first option is a sound choice. The card is to good of a ultility and can fetch out a win condition. Generally i dont like running two void builds because it often means tutoring for one and lossing a good utility and tempo. It also makes consulting not very safe. Wretch is probably the least painful card to loose, but he is so powerful against so many decks. Also with the lack of factory's, cutting a creature bringing my count to only 9 could present problems and make deeding a bit more challenging. Afterall this deck dosent mind going turn one duress shade and laying down a bit of aggro. The final option is to loose a card that is my new best friend.

Any thoughts folk's. Some input on this very fine tuning would be greatly desired.

[twn_domn]

@JACO

Glad some1 is old/intelligent enough to leave out the emotion.  

1.  You don't think I run Factory do you?
The deck list is more than 1/2 years old.  Do you actually think I follow the entire deck list?

2.  
Vs. Rector Trix:
+3 Cabal Therapy
-3 Pernicious Deed
Vs. Keeper:
+2 Skeletal Scrying
-2 Pernicious Deed
These are examples of poor choices

It's not fair for you to judge that.  That article is written in 2003.  The Rector Trix and Paragon Keeper in 2003 obviously are not the same as 2004.  Also, what do you need the Deed for when Rector will go off on the 2nd turn?  Do you plan to mulligan until you can cast 1st/2nd deed?  Or do you much rather have more disruptions to stop the combo from going off?

@Deed != disruption
Every deck has a plan.  If you twist and change the definition of dirsuption in that sense, it's merely a War of Words on the definition of disruption.  Pointless argument.  My Powder Keg hits the table, it changes your plan; hence, is it a disruption?  My Mind Slayer hits the table, it changes your plan.  A disruption!  My Oblivion Stone hits the table, another disruption.  Why don't you count every board sweeper as disruption?

[HuntedWumpus]

Played at dons 2-2. I played sligh twice and won both of those. Had a mirror match and a match against combo with tendral. Both of those went 1-2. Deck performed well.

[colder]

Report time again!

I went to a tournament this past Saturday (Ontario Vintage Championships).  In actuality, this was 2 tournaments: the main tournament for the big prize, an unlimited Mox Jet, and the side tournament for people that dropped out of the main tournament.

I dropped out into the side tournament.

Here's what I played with, first of all.

3x Nether Void
4x Pernicious Deed

3x Sinkhole
4x Duress
4x Hymn To Tourach
4x Wasteland
1x Strip Mine
1x Dust Bowl

4x Nantuko Shade
3x Withered Wretch
3x Hypnotic Specter

1x Demonic Tutor
1x Necropotence
1x Yawgmoth's Will
1x Sylvan Library
2x Skeletal Scrying

1x Black Lotus
1x Mox Jet
4x Dark Ritual
2x Polluted Delta
2x Llanowar Wastes
4x Bayou
6x Swamp

Sideboard:
3 Naturalize
3 Choke
3 Chains of Mephistopheles
2 Masticore
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Contagion

The reason I dropped from the main tournament:  mana screw.  This was (stupidly) an untested mana base.  I would have much preferred 7-8 swamps instead of the paltry 6.  After tanking my first 2 matches (one to goblins, no less!), I tore the deck apart and re-sorted it in a form that distributed primarily mana sources evenly throughout the deck, instead of just distributing LANDS.  I figured that would help space out the disruption better - I hardly ever use Wastelands et. al. for mana.  (Of course I shuffled the deck afterwards, but the re-sorting would help me out in terms of fairer randomization, hoping that mana sources would be better spaced out instead of clumps of disruption vs. mana.)

2 more matches in the main tournament didn't help my standings out too well - I swept one scrubby player before taking on Sui-Black, which ended up in a 1-1-1 match (win, loss, draw).  I dropped out in time for the side-tournament after that.

The side tournament was stellar, however.  The even distribution of mana sources held up, and I steamrolled the scrub again, had a fun match against GAT (going into game 3 we agreed to just ID and save the records for the top 8), and then had a surprise rout against Rector-Trix.  Turns out that Nether Void will give Rector-Trix fits if you go with old Void tech:  Drop threat, then Void.  I rolled over my opponent 2-0 in quick succession - my deck was in top form, and his deck was... well, too slow, and couldn't search in time.  I didn't even bother sideboarding.

Top 8: Vs. GAT (same player).  I took this matchup in 2 games - for my opponent's sake, my Withered Wretches were key, as well as some quick discard and Choke (oh, Choke!  Sideboard MVP, without a doubt).  In the last game, a Hypnotic Specter did the dirty work after a good bit of threat-removal and some discard.  Amazingly, none of his card-draw came up.

Top 4: Vs. Rector-Trix (same player).  This was such a bad buzz.  We had a long drawn-out battle that shouldn't have been - First game, I kept a bad hand with 1 land and a Ritual.  After watching him bust out a Yawgmoth's Bargain thanks to Rector & Therapy, I threw out a Nether Void and promptly proceeded to draw only 1 other land in the match.  The Void gave him fits for a long time before he finally managed to pull the resources together to Donate two Illusions to me, and I scooped.  Second game started out better - I smartly took a mulligan to 6, then played a solid match consisting of severe land-hate.  He played out some artifact mana (Moxes, Sol Ring, and a Mana Vault), to which I tossed a Pernicious Deed and popped for 0, bringing him down to a Sol Ring, 1 land, and a tapped Mana Vault.  My Dust Bowl kept his land at bay for a long time, helping me keep his Vault tapped and consistently dealing 1 damage for several turns.  I finally popped out a Nantuko Shade and dealt the final blow.

Game 3 was a heartbreaker - I had board position with 2 creatures (Shade & Wretch), and had it set up, when he managed to pull out a Rector, tossed it with a Therapy, and brought out... Form Of The Dragon.  Yep.  I held out a few turns before throwing in the towel.

So in the end I placed 3rd in the side tournament.  My opponent came away with 2nd place in the end, winning a Masticore.  I won: 3 Worldgorger Dragons.  I'll see about doing something with them, probably trading them.

My thoughts on my deck: More Land!  Seriously, I didn't do a good job judging my distributions, and I think I'm going to toss 1 Sinkhole for a land, as well as something else - maybe a Wasteland, maybe a Scrying.  I desperately need to up the Swamp count.  I'm leaning towards tossing a Scrying, since land-hate seems to be so key in my metagame.  I don't see many mono-coloured decks around here, so I figure that would probably be the better option.

I'm also very happy with the 4th Deed - they're really king, and I'm glad to have drawn more of them.

[Yare]

My thoughts on my deck: More Land!  Seriously, I didn't do a good job judging my distributions, and I think I'm going to toss 1 Sinkhole for a land, as well as something else - maybe a Wasteland, maybe a Scrying.  I desperately need to up the Swamp count.  I'm leaning towards tossing a Scrying, since land-hate seems to be so key in my metagame.  I don't see many mono-coloured decks around here, so I figure that would probably be the better option.

Before you start taking out cards like Sinkhole and whatnot to add more land, replace the fetchlands for either basic swamps or Llanowar Wastes.  By doing this, you are making your deck more mana-intensive without actually sacrificing more spells.  You could even try using Tainted Wood *cue boos for using conditional, non-fetchable dual land*  although that's really up to you;  I think it's worth testing.

[colder]

It wasn't that I wasn't pulling usable lands - it's that I wasn't pulling lands, period.  Replacing Fetchlands with other mana sources wouldn't help, because I'm looking for quality over quantity.  Unless someone Stifle's my Fetchland, I would consider an opening hand of 1 Fetch + 1 Swamp just as good as 2 Swamps.  As it was, that wasn't happening - I was pulling 0-2 lands in my opening hands in the main tournament, and then few others as the games went on.  Fetches or no, there just weren't ENOUGH.

I would feel OK removing a Sinkhole because I currently have 9 land destruction effects in the deck - 4 Wasteland, 1 Dust Bowl, 1 Strip Mine, and 3 Sinkholes.  What I discovered during the tournament was that 1 Dust Bowl was usually better than 2 Sinkholes - barring an opposing LD effect on it, it was both extra mana AND helped me offensively.

I have no qualms about removing 1 Sinkhole - the only question is what else to take out if I want to include another Swamp.

[HuntedWumpus]

Well i cut consultation for deed 4. So far with the new testing i may very well revert back to 3 deeds. My use of skeletal Scrying gives me a better chance of drawing up the deeds. But for now I am running four.

Playing in the last week has indicated that my sideboard may be a bit off. My board looked like this right now.

3 Masticore
3 Naturalize
3 Diabolic Edict
2 Choke
2 Chains of Mephistopheles
2 Null Rod

Alright. Contagion and Planar void/Tormonds Crypt seem like possible choices. Ide like to brainstorm some idea on the board.

[eddavatar]

Just my .02 here

1)On Dust Bowl. I believe if the deck runs anything less than 3 fetchlands, this would be an amazing choice. The dust bowl would actually turn yucky land drew in inopportune times into asset. Mad props on Jaco.

2)Wumpus, don't drop the consultation, especially not for deed. Despite my personal hatred against that card, it is still a 1 casting cost instant no card loss tutor that's excellent in decks with insane redundancy like Void. You can always consult for the deed. And there are situations where you don't want that deed in your hand (aka opening hand, or a mulliganed opening hand) 4 is excessive, you usually just need to reset the board once. 3 is adequet. When you play 4 of something, it better win you the game or that you want to see it in your opening hand a lot.

3)On Sinkhole. It's really dependent on the draws you have. It's usually only amazing on early game as a follow-up of wasteland, later it becomes a dead card almost.

4)Take out the masticores from your sideboard. Edicts or smother are far superior. Core, no matter how big, still can't chew down tog or something of the kind. It is too slow to stop welders. I would also hate to get into the masticore card lock. Edicts take down most things you would face and earns you valuable time early game to take out blockers and it's priceless to see a tog or a welder jumping down from the ship. Add the final edict in the board if you are that scared of aggro.

The last 2 spot open is up to you. My choice of the week would be Root maze. I love root maze and its synergy with choke and it's pwnage against any combo and yawg will (have fun with your tapped lotus). It also at least halt trinisphere for a turn. (Dam workshops)

[HuntedWumpus]

Well i have run the 4deed build and done mucho testing in the past week+. I have found that i draw them far to often, especially since i have two scryings in addition to the necro. I have replaced that fourth deed with dustbowl and am currently beginning testing. I have removed null rod from my board and now run the 4th deed in the board. My current build looks like this

Nether Void

8 Swamp
4 Bayou
2 Bloodstained Mire
1 Llanowar wastes
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
1 Dustbowl
1 Mox Jet
1 Black Lotus
4 Dark Ritual
4 Sinkhole
4 Duress
4 Hymn To Tourach
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Nether Void
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Necropotence
2 Skeletal Scrying
4 Nantuko Shade
3 Withered Wretch
3 Hypnotic Specter

Sideboard
2 Masticore
2 Contagion
2 Chains of mephistopheles
2 Choke
3 Diabolic Edict
3 Naturalize

Wow, what an evoultion from my previous builds. Demonic Consultation is missing, but whats a man to do. Thoughs, criticism....

[Yare]

Well i have run the 4deed build and done mucho testing in the past week+. I have found that i draw them far to often, especially since i have two scryings in addition to the necro. I have replaced that fourth deed with dustbowl and am currently beginning testing. I have removed null rod from my board and now run the 4th deed in the board. My current build looks like this

Nether Void

8 Swamp
4 Bayou
2 Bloodstained Mire
1 Llanowar wastes
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
1 Dustbowl
1 Mox Jet
1 Black Lotus
4 Dark Ritual
4 Sinkhole
4 Duress
4 Hymn To Tourach
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Nether Void
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Necropotence
2 Skeletal Scrying
4 Nantuko Shade
3 Withered Wretch
3 Hypnotic Specter

Sideboard
2 Masticore
2 Contagion
2 Chains of mephistopheles
2 Choke
3 Diabolic Edict
3 Naturalize

Wow, what an evoultion from my previous builds. Demonic Consultation is missing, but whats a man to do. Thoughs, criticism....

I still don't like the fact that you don't have Consultation in the deck.  I think it is too strong to exclude.  It gets you what you want, at instant speed, with no card disadvantage.  You can even consult for a resricted card in a pinch.  What to cut?  I don't know, but Consult demands a slot.

[HuntedWumpus]

Its absolutly true, but the fact still remains its the slot that needs to be found. I dont really wana start eating at the heart of the deck.

[HuntedWumpus]

Well, I played as usual at Dons. Im not sure about the dustbowl but i am sure that three mainboard deeds is the right number. It opens up more slots and coolness. Ill probably cut dustbowl for consultation. My three rounds went as followed

Round 1 Against Suiblack: 2-0
This match is very favorable to me. Although we have a very similar creature base, I can go just as aggro as he can. My mainboard disruption and evil sideboard wins. Not much more to say, and im tired.

Round 2 Against Gay/R:2-1

I win game one by establishing board control and beatings with a shade. I also had him on low land. I dont think he drew very well.

I sided out one deed and some disruption for 3 edicts, 2 contagion, 2chains of meph, 2 choke. He suprizes me with daze and some very quick speed. He wins game two in classic fish style.

Game three is the perfect void game. I disrupt early but dont see any creatures, I find a chains about four turns in and get it to hit the board. Also a contagion owned his army. From this point on my shade and hippies were good to me and found there way to the top of the deck. I played an edicted to finish off his army and chased it with a shade. Next turn hippie, and won.

Round 3 against Keeper: 1-0-0

Here's how the most epic game of my vintage play(only about 1.5 years in vitage as a serious player) went. He hits a turn one library that gets wasted, and i quickly resolve a shade. He had previouly countered a hymn and i got lucky. My shade beat for awhile and then got swords. The next two shades got manadrained but he burned for 4, very unusual. At this point i have land and deed on the board. My grip is okay, but not super solid. I get a wretch out and its quickly swords to plowshares'ed. This puts me at 23 and Jeff at 7.  He playes a mox monkey an beats for awhile, i get to 16. Then it gets bad and he yawg wills and is dosent kill me but severly damages my chance's. The two deeds i have on the board are used to deal with his two decree's. This is all in his master sceme of course. He play's fling with 4 cards in the grip. He is after scrying, fetching and willing, at 1. I have 2x turns to live... i draw a Yawg will. Thats kinda funny. Im not totally mana fat, but the ritual in my grip and the one in my grave and my land allow me to do the following. Duress, take balance, leaves him with swords and two other broken thigs but no counters or card draw. Duress again then hymn. He's got no cards and fling and enough mana to float 20ish when he untaps. I play shade, hippie. He cant kill me his turn and dosent draw a solution. I swing for the win.

Yay

Overall the deck performed well. Ill give dustbowl another try. I didnt really miss consult, i know how good it is. As for 4 mainboard deeds. I will right a post on that tomarrow if i can remeber. It's to many

[DrLambda]

I'd cut 1x Skeletal Scrying for Consultation. It looks like the only card to cut without changing the consistency of this deck. Youre basically changing card advantage for card quality.

[HuntedWumpus]

I would definatly favor the 2x scrying. THey help get the deed if needed, and are very solid in almost every match. Demonic consultation isn't too big of a deal anyway. The way i see it, if your casting it then you have to be on your last lets looking for a glimmer of hope. Its not very good to use as a tutor because of the huge drawback. There are alot of 4x's in the deck, but if im usning it to win then the consult usually goes for deed or void and there are only 3 of those.

THis is highly debateable. Jaco, Tracerbullet, Dave..... i would value some imput very highly from you guys.

[Yare]

The way i see it, if your casting it then you have to be on your last lets looking for a glimmer of hope. Its not very good to use as a tutor because of the huge drawback. There are alot of 4x's in the deck, but if im usning it to win then the consult usually goes for deed or void and there are only 3 of those.

I have to disagree with this analysis.  I cast it quite often to gain an advantage or whatever.  The drawback is not the fact that you lost a bunch of cards off your deck; those are cards you wouldn't draw anyway.  The real drawback is your inability to tutor for cards lost and the slim possibility that you may deck yourself.  I have tutored for 3-of's quite often and only gotten into trouble maybe once.  Tutoring for a 3-of is 95% safe, so really it's just about not tutoring for restricted cards, although, as has been stated many times, you can do that if you really want to.

[eddavatar]

Wumpus: As i've told you, cut the darn deed and put the consultation back in. Consultation adds 1 to every card in your deck. You never need to draw your 3rd deed much less 4.

[Smmenen]

Is trinisphere a good replacement for Nethervoid?

Steve

[HuntedWumpus]

I would'nt call it a good replacement in this deck. I have seen some very promising trisnisphere prison decks. The reason its not a good replacement is simply because is dosnet lock them down as harshly as the void will. It hard enough to resolve a 1-2 CC spell under void, but any more that that will be highly unlikly for my opponents, especially with the addition of dust bowl to my build.

[JACO]

Is trinisphere a good replacement for Nethervoid?

Steve

In a word, no. Trinisphere is more in line with the Nether Void-less decks (a la Chalice Black) that were running Sphere of Resistance. Sure, Trinishpere makes everything cost at least 3 mana, but it isn't nearly the soft-lock type piece that Nether Void is. Making every single spell cost an additional 3 mana is ludicrous in this deck, with the various forms of disruption and all.

I would definatly favor the 2x scrying. THey help get the deed if needed, and are very solid in almost every match. Demonic consultation isn't too big of a deal anyway. The way i see it, if your casting it then you have to be on your last lets looking for a glimmer of hope. Its not very good to use as a tutor because of the huge drawback. There are alot of 4x's in the deck, but if im usning it to win then the consult usually goes for deed or void and there are only 3 of those.

THis is highly debateable. Jaco, Tracerbullet, Dave..... i would value some imput very highly from you guys.

Wumpus: As i've told you, cut the darn deed and put the consultation back in. Consultation adds 1 to every card in your deck. You never need to draw your 3rd deed much less 4.

Do NOT listen to Eddie; the best card in your deck is Pernicious Deed. I don't give a damn when I draw 2 in my opening hand. You know why? Because it kicks the ass of pretty much anything that your opponent is going to play, and clears the path for your creatures to win the game for you. I haven't led you astray thus far, and I won't now. What is the weakest card in your deck? I would say (and have said numerous times) that it is Sinkhole. While I love land destruction at least as much as the next guy, and probably more, Sinkhole just isn't as good as it used to be before the advent of fetchlands. If there is anything that you can cut for the Consultation, it is Sinkhole (especially since you have finally discovered the brute power of Dust Bowl in this deck).

[eddavatar]

JACO Wrote
Do NOT listen to Eddie; the best card in your deck is Pernicious Deed. I don't give a damn when I draw 2 in my opening hand. You know why? Because it kicks the ass of pretty much anything that your opponent is going to play, and clears the path for your creatures to win the game for you. I haven't led you astray thus far, and I won't now. What is the weakest card in your deck? I would say (and have said numerous times) that it is Sinkhole. While I love land destruction at least as much as the next guy, and probably more, Sinkhole just isn't as good as it used to be before the advent of fetchlands. If there is anything that you can cut for the Consultation, it is Sinkhole (especially since you have finally discovered the brute power of Dust Bowl in this deck).

Ok Jaco, just one very easy question. Do you want to see deed or sinkhole in your opening hand more often?

The answer is sinkhole, because that is what sinkhole's all about: early disruption. Deed is for the midgame control, it's not something you want to have in your opening hand and much less 2 of'em (which is possible if you run 4). If you don't get a sinkhole early on and connect, the utility of it later once your opponent stablize on his mana base.

Sinkhole is something you want to run 4 to ensure you would see it in your opening hand or you just don't run it. Running 3 is inexcusable in the sense that it weakens your chance of utlizing it early on while not getting rid of the possible drawback of being a quite useless card mid to late game.

Deed you usually only need to blow it up once to seal the fate of the game, and twice at most. 3 is the right number for this kind of purpose. You usually wouldn't have that much resource/card drawing to back up so many times of deeding. You just don't casually blow up a deed just to get rid of 1 permenent unless you are desperate. I just don't see the necessity of the 4th deed.

That said, test it out the wumpi one. See you monday.

[colder]

I gotta agree with Jaco on this.  In my last tournament, I discovered something:  Sinkhole is something your opponent can shrug off more easily than a Pernicious Deed.  (Self Note: I have seen the light on the disruption issue).

A Sinkhole will - at best - kill a land.  Yay.  Your opponent will just lay another land and lose some tempo.  Good for a start, but not enough.

At worst, it will be Misdirected.  In between, it'll be countered, but someone with lots of land or lots of low-cost spells won't break a sweat.  You might get lucky and help along their mana screw, a win-more situation.

A P. Deed will make your opponent sweat.  They will play differently.

At best, you will sweep the board clean, throw down a Void and beat with a creature until they die.  In between, it's sitting at the ready, waiting for you to pop it.  It's a real threat that your opponent MUST answer.

At worst, it will be countered.  At which point you will think to yourself "3 left."

I ran 3 Sinkholes at the last tournament.  I'm going to drop to 2 after noticing the difference my card mix made, replacing the 1 Sinkhole with a Swamp.

I may also drop either a Scrying, or the Sylvan Library for another Swamp.  I'm leaning towards Sylvan for the drop - my metagame doesn't feature much graveyard removal, making the Scrying more effective in my opinion.

[HuntedWumpus]

There are times where the sinkhole isnt as solid at it want to be, but it is a meanie in several places. First, an ealry game sinkhole, in combination with a waste can be devistating and ultimatly put the opponent very far behind. Often too far behind to fully recover. Now, granted the sinkhole in midgame is only good if the precceding happened in which case it can still be painful. The other time it can be hady is attempting to color screw decks, but thats too hard these days with fetchland and duals combine. Lets figure the void is out. The sinkhole can be very lethal here, or it can be nearly dead.

Here's an chace for Jaco and the Good void players to bite my head off...

I DO have a problem with opening with two deeds. The deed is not somthing i want to see quickly against MOST decks. I say most because there are match's where it is needed and it is found in my board. Honestly i dont want to see a deed in my opeaning hand. Now perhaps im just wrong but the deck dosent require a deed to win. Yes if it hits the board it makes opponents play differently, and depeding on how you view it is therefore a source of disruption.

I feel good about having 3 deeds, and a dustbowl instead of 4 deeds. But i will consider the dropping of sinkhole

[Frenchman]

I know, it's sounds weird but try out 2 petrified field, it bring back you're wasteland, stripmine ( having more landkill vs mono colouredc deck) and also revives dust bowl and mishra's factory.

[HuntedWumpus]

Granted it seems logical, but just for land kill its not that good. Also the deck is running basically the lowest amount of Black producers i can get away with, squeezing those in would be hard enough. I think that the nine LD spells is high enough for Void. Also stife is running very rampant and this presents yet another target.

[ArthurKing]

Sinkhole gives you a better shot against workshop.dec.
I see where you're coming from, but workshop is a bad matchup and for that reason alone, I dont think I could spare it. Dragon's Bazaars are a pain. Plus I hear basic lands are tough for wastelands/dustbowl to snag. I think the ld aspect is too important to get cut just yet.

A Sinkhole will - at best - kill a land. Yay. Your opponent will just lay another land and lose some tempo. Good for a start, but not enough.

A sinkhole can hit their 4th land under void and keep them waiting for another land, possibly winning you the game.

[colder]

At worst, it will be Misdirected. In between, it'll be countered, but someone with lots of land or lots of low-cost spells won't break a sweat. You might get lucky and help along their mana screw, a win-more situation.

-Grandma, what selective reading you have!

-All the better to ignore you with, my dear.