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Author Topic: Your opinion: Unbroken Gems  (Read 15770 times)
SpencerForHire
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« Reply #60 on: February 04, 2004, 01:19:16 pm »

[card]Ancestral Knowledge[/card] - Possibly the best top deck storm generater yet, and no one runs it.
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« Reply #61 on: February 04, 2004, 01:38:38 pm »

@Smmenen re:buying a time vault
      I think thats a smart move, though time vault has been around for a while It hasn't even seen 10% of its strength abused.  With all the new Mirroden block cards and this surge of rogue deck development, I think we will see vault be abused pretty harshly in the future. We are all testing stuff with vault, including me!  Wink
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« Reply #62 on: February 04, 2004, 08:05:07 pm »

The anti aggro funness that is The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale.  With low CC creatures running around in hordes in decks with little mana, i'm surprised this isn't used more often.
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« Reply #63 on: February 05, 2004, 12:23:34 am »

Still no one seems to have looked at [card]Soothsaying[/card]....I truly do not see why it's not better than ancestral knowledge...

Tabernacle is sworn by some of the vinatge players as being one of the most useful non-mana lands ever printed. pendrell mists kicks too. Don't look at getting a time vault combo together as restricted cards are hard to base any combo on. Not saying it wont happen, I just doubt it s'all... Wink

Peace Cool

EDIT: well matt seems to have explained it...I'm just going to shut up now Embarassed
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Matt
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« Reply #64 on: February 05, 2004, 12:48:57 am »

1. Time Vault isn't restricted.
2. Tabernacle is one of the ONLY nonmana lands! There's only sixteen, and five of those (Adventurer's Guildhouse+friends) are really the same card. They stopped making nonmana lands in Ice Age.
3. Soothsaying blows even next to Ancestral Knowledge because it costs at least twice as much.
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« Reply #65 on: February 05, 2004, 01:21:20 am »

Quote from: Petey4335
The anti aggro funness that is The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale.  With low CC creatures running around in hordes in decks with little mana, i'm surprised this isn't used more often.



For me it's the legendary Status that kills it. Lots of decks can just dump 1 threat and fly solo with it, and can easily afford the upkeep. Would be better if you could dump 2 or 3 at the same time.
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« Reply #66 on: February 06, 2004, 02:00:22 pm »

-Ill Gotten Gains
-Plagiarize
-Vendetta
-Snuff Out
-Desperate Research
-Scalpelexis
-Mogg Salvage
-Rotting Giant
-Aluren
-Ashes to Ashes/Dust to Dust
-Dream Halls

Those are a few. I have a Eureka deck which does pretty good, it is a monogreen knockoff Diceman's Skull deck, with some fun stuff of My own. Looks like this:

4 Eureka
4 Natural Order

4 Sylvan Library
3 Timesifter

4 Ravenous Baloth
4 Plated Slagwurm
4 Llanowar Elves
2 Verdant Force
1 Symbiotic Wurm
1 Gigapede
1 Silklash Spider

1 Memory Jar

13 Forest
1 Lotus
1 Emerald
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Eladamri's Vineyard
4 Ancient Tomb

Sideboard varies, there's alot of monoblack, Dragon and Tog that gets played, along with some random crap. It's AMAZINGLY fun to play, and any monogreen deck which takes 8 turns in a row is some good. Timesifter+Sylvan=F.U.
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« Reply #67 on: February 06, 2004, 03:36:26 pm »

Well, I would speak Skullclamp. This card has the potential to be really abusive even only with the cards in MRD block. Now finally Kobolds are playable  Very Happy

Replenish - um, broken.

Time Vault would be great if de-erretaed. And broken  Razz
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Matt
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« Reply #68 on: February 06, 2004, 04:54:28 pm »

Engineered Plague
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« Reply #69 on: February 06, 2004, 05:37:15 pm »

Quote from: Matt
Engineered Plague


............................. .......I dont get it...................... Question

I mean, I guess you could kill lots of creatures and stuff. um or screw up elf or gobbo. People SB this card.......How would you use it to win? Or is that not the point? It's been mentioned before, but I mean it's just an enchantment. Youre going to stop welder on turn three?

As one who loves  {X} cost spells, I would love to see more (ab)use of Consume Spirit.
Oh and, what about [card]Shifting Wall[/card]??? Sure it's a wall, but someone can probably think of a way to change that Wink

Come on, someone bring back Worship :lol:

[card]Cremate[/card]
[card]Reaping The Graves[/card]
[card]Spontaneous Generation[/card] & [card]Collective Unconcious[/card]
Sure they're expensive but they just go together so well.

Peace Cool
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« Reply #70 on: February 06, 2004, 05:50:10 pm »

Engineered Plague is especially useful for shutting down Welders I think.
Cremate: worse than Coffin Purge
Reaping the graves: worse than Random Miser

For my unbroken gems, I'm gonna try wax/wane and Natural Order

edit: post number what?
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« Reply #71 on: February 07, 2004, 12:20:51 am »

It's not that Engineered Plague is going to be broken per se, but it feels like it should be considered in people's sideboards or maindecks for certain metagames and no one's even trying it.

T3 Plague is kind of bad vs Welder but t1 or t2 (Ritual, Moxen) isn't at all. It also shuts down ALL Welders, both on the board and in the future. That's valuable - I cast one spell and suddenly the four most dangerous cards in your deck are gone. It's unaffected by Trinisphere, too, if that matters to you.

Think about how many decks run X/1s. Goblins of all stripes, Welders in specific. All of Sligh's other guys. Soldier tokens, Gorilla Shamans, Xantid Swarms. Volrath's Shapeshifters can't easily get around it because once it's in play they can never let the Shifter revert to normal, not even for a single pass of priority. It can keep a Tog from nibbling you while they set up for the Alpha Strike, buying maybe two turns there. It's far from dead vs Fish, too, if it comes to that (everything they have is stoppable by Plague [in fact everything but Rootwater Thief dies outright, and reducing that guy's power to zero effectively kills it], and Wizard kills Voidmage Apprentice and Grim Lavamancer, though for some horrible reason Conclaves don't animate into Faeries [they have no inherent creature type]). It's an awesome sideboard card (especially since in this format it can come out earlier than t3) and a decent maindeck one, metagames permitting.

It's funny that you find no use for Plague but in the same breath mention Consume Spirit (underpowered even in Standard) and Shifting Wall, which is just plain horrible.
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« Reply #72 on: February 08, 2004, 08:55:34 pm »

I think an interesting argument might be made for Spellweaver Helix as being an unbroken gem...Damping Matrix as well...
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« Reply #73 on: February 09, 2004, 09:15:11 am »

Actually, it bums me as well that Spellweaver Helix hasn't been abused yet. On the surface, it does appear to have potential.

I guess the problem is that it's still a 3 card combo, though (the setup, the helix itself and one of the imprinted spells in hand), and again, not as instant-win as the benchmark for this sort of combo (dragon). Setup could, for instance, be done with Bazaar or Intuition, the idea being to have something broken and an "activator" spell imprinted. The activator would be a 4-of, but imprinting one means you now only have 3 left to activate with. Any draw-7, mind's desire, a decent tutor or any spells allowing you to take extra turns would be pretty good on it. The best I could think of for activating the imprinted spell was cheap sorceries like careful study, thoughcast, sleight of hand and deep analysis, although the latter isn't cheap. It probably only works well after you've already started to "go off", though, and academy-style decks are already tight enough to not want to run such a combo, so it would need a somewhat dedicated deck.
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Matt
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« Reply #74 on: February 09, 2004, 10:17:01 am »

You could use Cabal Therapy as your activator. You cast one, imprint it, and you've still got six Therapies left. Acorn Harvest is another good activator, and combines well enough with the aforementioned Therapies.
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« Reply #75 on: February 09, 2004, 05:37:28 pm »

bebe posted a Helix deck in the newbie forum on TMD1. It used Quiet Speculation to fetch Crush of Wurms + 2 other flashback spells and imprinted the Crush along with one of the other sorceries, which were commonly Cabal Therapy or Deep Analysis. It's a neat deck, but it takes Quiet Spec and a Helix to really work, otherwise it's just alot of overcosted and conditional spells. The concept was developed by the Japanese for 1.x and it worked quite well mainly because of Tinker.

Someone also posted a list using Helix on SCG a while back, but that was Type 2, although it could probably be ported to 1.x, but hey, this is a Type 1 forum...
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« Reply #76 on: February 10, 2004, 05:48:59 pm »

cephalid constable
dawn of the dead
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« Reply #77 on: February 10, 2004, 09:01:16 pm »

Recently, there has been a large increase in the ammount of innovation in type 1, and looking to join the band wagon, I have recently looked over as many cards as I could to find cards with potential. These could bring forth new decks, or be used in the board for bad matchups, or any other purpose as seen fit. Some of these may have been mentioned before, so excuse me if it seems I am stealing some one elses tech.

So in no particular order...

Seeds of Innocence
Sorcery
{1}{G}{G}
Destroy all artifacts. They can't be regenerated. The controller of each artifact destroyed this way gains life equal to its converted mana cost.
Possible Uses: I could see this being run in Big O as a sideboard card vs. workshop decks.

Acorn Harvest
Sorcery
{3}{G}
Flashback {1}{G}, Pay 3 life
Put two 1/1 green Squirrel creature tokens into play.
Possible Uses: Same as above.

Battle of Wits
Enchantment
{3}{U}{U}
At the beginning of your upkeep, if you have 200 or more cards in your library, you win the game.
Possible Uses: Anything that says 'you win the game' can't be that bad. In type 1 you could also support any number of colours for any number of broken cards and tutors.

Ruination
Sorcery
{3}{R}
Destroy all nonbasic lands.
Possible Uses: Honestly, I don't know. No sligh deck tends to ramp up to 4 mana, and killing nonbasics has no place in multicolour control. Nevertheless, this is a strong card, albeit a bit pricey.

Gaea's Skyfolk
Creature - Merfolk Elf
{U}{G}
2/2
Flying
Possible Uses: This is a solid little beater. Perhaps used to create UG fish?

Evasive Action
Instant
{1}{U}
Counter target spell unless its controller pays {1} for each basic land type among lands you control.
Possible Uses: Used in multicolour control whose mana bases are a little light on the blue. Not likely, but could see play in budget keeper.

Mogg Salvage
Instant
{2}{R}
If an opponent controls an Island and you control a Mountain, you may play ~this~ without paying its mana cost.
Destroy target artifact.
Possible Uses: Anything red vs. Stax. Better then R&R, no, but it is still useful as it can be played for free when under the lock.

Pulverize
Sorcery
{4}{R}{R}
You may sacrifice two Mountains rather than pay ~this~'s mana cost.
Destroy all artifacts.
Possible Uses: More red alternate cc artifact destruction. Woot.

Goblin Tinkerer
Creature - Goblin
{1}{R}
1/2.
{R},{Tap}: Destroy target artifact. That artifact deals damage equal to its converted mana cost to ~this~.
Possible Uses: Kill chalice of the void set to one, since that stops both goblin vandal and gorilla shaman (not to mention all your other dorks and burn).

Roar of the Wurm
Sorcery
{6}{G}
Flashback {3}{G}
Put a 6/6 green Wurm creature token into play.
Possible Uses: Hulk sideboards. Intuitioning for these vs. aggro =  some good.

Gilded Light
Instant
{1}{W}
Cycling {2}
You can't be the target of spells or abilities this turn.
Possible Uses: Vs. Tendril's combo to stop them from killing you, fizzling their entire combo. So much fun.

Upheaval
Sorcery
{4}{U}{U}
Return all permanents to their owners' hands.
Possible Uses: In conjunction with say, gilded lotus, you could generate stupid ammounts of mana, upheaval floating 10^2 mana and then recast everything. A couple of issues with this are that a) too slow, and b) mana drain. Still could be useful, maybe in slavery boards...

Lobotomy
Sorcery
{2}{U}{B}
Look at target player's hand and choose a card other than a basic land card from it. Search that player's graveyard, hand, and library for all cards with the same name as the chosen card and remove them from the game. Then that player shuffles his or her library.
Possible Uses: Boards of blue based control decks. While acting as a super duress (for only {3} more mana Very Happy) in a control mirror, this could easily hose dragon. An interesting card that saw play in 1.x (prebannings) and may have its applications in vintage.

So, yeah. Just some ideas I thought I'd share. Feel free to discuss.
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« Reply #78 on: February 11, 2004, 12:17:06 am »

Here's few off the top of my head
Blinkmoth Urn
Nantuko Monastery
Collossus of Sardia/Leviathan/Polar Kraken that fat fat
Rule of Law
that's all for now
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« Reply #79 on: February 11, 2004, 12:42:58 am »

@BouncingBeeble

Goblin Tinkerer
Creature - Goblin
{1}{R}
1/2.
{R},{Tap}: Destroy target artifact. That artifact deals damage equal to its converted mana cost to ~this~.
Possible Uses: Kill chalice of the void set to one, since that stops both goblin vandal and gorilla shaman (not to mention all your other dorks and burn).


These guys kill Dreadnaughts rather efficiently too.
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« Reply #80 on: February 11, 2004, 05:56:02 am »

Mirari - I know, heard all the arguments, but still think there's a way to break this card in T1.

Retract - I know people are playing around with this currently, but it still boggles me that WotC printed this thing...a cheaper storm count upper. Sexy.
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« Reply #81 on: February 11, 2004, 05:10:29 pm »

Quote from: mouth
bebe posted a Helix deck in the newbie forum on TMD1. It used Quiet Speculation to fetch Crush of Wurms + 2 other flashback spells and imprinted the Crush along with one of the other sorceries, which were commonly Cabal Therapy or Deep Analysis. It's a neat deck, but it takes Quiet Spec and a Helix to really work, otherwise it's just alot of overcosted and conditional spells. The concept was developed by the Japanese for 1.x and it worked quite well mainly because of Tinker.

Someone also posted a list using Helix on SCG a while back, but that was Type 2, although it could probably be ported to 1.x, but hey, this is a Type 1 forum...


Anything with Buyback would work as well, and allow you to do it infinitely. Lab Rats is the one I was trying out, Helixing a Time Walk and Lab Rats is pretty funny.
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« Reply #82 on: February 12, 2004, 11:44:26 am »

Flaming Gambit in conjunction with Cunning Wish has always been a favorite of mine Smile

Also Sorrow's Path/Mishra's Groundbreaker/Spirit Link!  (jk)
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