Illegal Action Rule

[Lyhrrus]

My friend brought up this question for affinity:  (Even though this seems unlikely in T1)

What happens if you have 4 artifacts out on the table, one of them being chromatic sphere.  You also have 3 plains out in play, with Myr Enforcer and Sky Hunter Patrol in hand.  You'd like to play SHP rather than enforcer, but you don't know if you're going to topdeck a land.  Can you announce Myr Enforcer (7-4=3 cc), crack the sphere, and depending on what you draw (say plains), retract on casting Enforcer (saying, oops, look, it now costs 4cc) and cast SHP instead?

Also, when you Mana Drain an affinity spell, what is the CMC of the spell?

[RoadTrippin]

Not at all. You can't take back plays like that. Usually in Vintage tourneys (since the environment is friendlier) people take back plays relatively frequently, but even in a t1 tourney I doubt anyone would allow that, since it's well.. cheating.

[Toad]

Mana Draining an Enforcer will give you 7 manas. Mana Drain looks at the casting cost written in the top right corner of the card.

[Jebus]

My friend brought up this question for affinity:  (Even though this seems unlikely in T1)

What happens if you have 4 artifacts out on the table, one of them being chromatic sphere.  You also have 3 plains out in play, with Myr Enforcer and Sky Hunter Patrol in hand.  You'd like to play SHP rather than enforcer, but you don't know if you're going to topdeck a land.  Can you announce Myr Enforcer (7-4=3 cc), crack the sphere, and depending on what you draw (say plains), retract on casting Enforcer (saying, oops, look, it now costs 4cc) and cast SHP instead?

Also, when you Mana Drain an affinity spell, what is the CMC of the spell?

The Myr Enforcer would still cost 3.  It's cost is locked in when you announce it.  When you play mana abilities to pay the cost, the cost won't change even if the number of Artifacts change.

If in the middle of the spell you decide not to play it, it is a little too late (especially if you drew a card in the middle of the process.

The converted mana cost of a card is always what is in the upper right corner, regardless of any cost reducers.  A Drained enforcer nets you 7 mana.

[wonkey_donkey]

Wouldn't this mean that you announce a spell (such as Wheel of Fortune), then put it on the stack, then pay its mana cost? These timings would mean that you could then sacrifice LED to pay for it, losing the rest of your hand but allowing the wheel to stay on the stack. I was under the impression that you couldn't use LED to pay for any spells in your hand. Could someone please clarify?

[Dr. Sylvan]

You can't use LED to pay for something that's in your hand. You pay for the spell when you announce it, before anyone gains priority again. (*looks for specific rule until someone beats me to it*)

Edit: Found it. Pay, then play.

409.1f The player determines the total cost of the spell or ability. Usually this is just the mana cost (for spells) or activation cost (for abilities). Some cards list additional or alternative costs in their text, and some effects may increase or reduce the cost to pay. Costs may include paying mana, tapping permanents, sacrificing permanents, discarding cards, and so on. The total cost is the mana cost, activation cost, or alternative cost, plus all cost increases and minus all cost reductions. Once the total cost is determined, it becomes "locked in." If effects would change the total cost after this time, they have no effect.

409.1g The player then has a chance to play mana abilities (see rule 411, "Playing Mana Abilities"). Mana abilities must be played before costs are paid.

409.1h The player pays the total cost in any order. Partial payments are not allowed. [Example omitted.]

409.1i Once the steps described in 409.1aÐ409.1h are completed, the spell or ability becomes played. Any abilities that trigger on a spell or ability being played or put onto the stack trigger at this time. The spell or ability's controller gets priority.

[Tristal]

No, the reason you can't pay for it with LED is because you can only sacrifice LED as an instant.  Otherwise, you could indeed pay for Wheel with an LED like that.

[jpmeyer]

No, Dr. Sylvan is right.  Since no one has priority, you can't play instants.

[DEA]

you're both right
nobody gets priority, so no instants can be played, yes
led's ability can only be played as an instant, yes
so the 2 together means you will never be able to use it like a black lotus (even if you do discard your hand  :lol: )