Wispmare can't be countered neither by Flusterstorm nor by Spell Pierce or Mental Misstep. Even though it's almost always brought in to fight against Leyline-effects (I'm also counting Rest in Peace to this section), you can still get tokens out of it. Evoke Wispmare, sacrifice-trigger on stack, destroy-enchantment-trigger on stack. Let the destroy-enchantment-trigger resolve, respond on the sacrifice-trigger by activating one or more Bazaar and discard or dredge Bridges. Let the sacrifice-trigger resolve, get token. This situation isn't that rare.

Hello guys,

first off, nice primer. It was a really enjoyable read.

Since I've not played the deck since almost for a whole year now - heck I didn't even play a Vintage tournament since May last year - I want to inform myself about the current metagame. How is it like, is it good for Dredge? Does Rest in Peace affect the metagame somehow and what's about Deathrite Shaman? Even though I don't think these cards are good against Dredge, they might have changed the amount of graveyard hate which is played like, Deathrite Shaman did in Legacy. Speaking of the DRless list, I think you'll need three Darkblasts maindeck now. I heard that creatures are becoming more relevant in Vintage and also Darkblast does a good job in the mirror or getting the most out of your Bridges.

Concerning the list without Gravetrolls: How does this list perform? How are the Dakmor Salvages? Actually I never had the feeling that I need them at all. If I don't have any lands for the Bloodghast landfall-trigger, they're just Ichorid-fodder and that's fine for me. Also Dredge 2 is really underwhelming for me.

Thanks for a reply in advance .

Hi,

here are my boardingplans:


Blue on the draw:
-1 Ichorid, -4 Field, -4 Leyline, -2 Thug
+4 Chain, +3 Wispmare, +4 Claim

on the play:
- see above, -4 Chewer (if he hasn't got any Leylines, don't board in the Wispmares)
+see above, +4 Unmask


Blue with Wasteland:
see above, just keep in the Fields and maybe the Chewer


MUD on the draw:
-4 Leyline
+4 Claim

on the play:
- see above, -2 Darkblast, -2 Therapy
+ see above, +4 Unmask


Mirror:
-4 Chewer, -4 Field, -1 Grudge, -1 Therapy, -1
Thug
+11 solutions vs. Leyline



Yeah, sometimes I got a bit lucky .



Thanks a lot .

Actually we think Dredge is one of the strongest decks in both formats, Vintage and Legacy. Even with much hate against us. If you stop playing a deck just because you fear the hate, you can't get better in playing around this hate. And of course the deck is so much fun to play because it's so unfair.

If you know how to play against hate, the deck is really strong. This is especially true for the Legacy-version.

So, we played the deck because we're always playing it and we don't care of there is much hate .

Thank you .

First of all: I don't think Mental Misstep and Surgical Extraction are good cards in Dredge. With Bazaar of Baghdad it is possible to draw into solutions preboard. If you play MM you have to have this card on your hand when the hate hits the table. And even then it might get countered by another MM from my opponent.
Think about it: Which kind of hate you mostly encounter game one? It's almost ever artifactbased in form of Grafdiggers Cage; most likely in a blue shell with Trinket Mages. Here comes in handy the artifactdestruction. Nature's Claim is a good card and actually I played it the day before in the Chewer slot. But almost every deck that plays preboard Cages is blue and almost every deck of those play MM. In that case the Chewer is just better. And as a nice sidebenefit you are able to get tokens with it through your Bridges. And you can slow your opponent down by destroying their Moxen in which case the don't gain 4 life .



Thanks a lot .

Yes, I won the tournament. Here's a little report about the weekend: www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=44239.0

Hi there,

I'll just copy-paste my text from the tipo1-
forum :

" Hi there,
not many people will know me here in this
forum, so I'm going to introduce myself a bit.
My name is Erik Hegemann, I'm 22 years old
and live in Germany. Since my mother-tongue is
German and I don't really know any Italian, I'm
going to write this text in English . Since this
forum is really popular for Vintage-players, I
wanted to post my little tournament-report
from my performance at this years Bazaar of
Moxen 6. So, here we go:

Friday, Legacy, about 400 players:
Weapon of choice is, of course, the German
deck (Dredge) . After reaching the 4th place
out of 633 players in the last year's Legacy
Mainevent with Dredge, I really wanted to
repeat this result in at least one tournament this
weekend. I played the following list with -1 Ray,
+1 Jouney in the SB: www.planetmtg.de/
articles/artikel.html?id=6133

UW Miracle (2-1)
Trisomy 21 [Bgw Loampox] (2-0)
Sneak Show (2-1)
UR Delver (2-0)
Team America (1-2)
UW Mircale (1-2)
Canadian (2-1)
UW Miracle (2-0)
ANT (1-2) (made a horrible mistake that costed
me the gamegame)
Uwb Snapcaster (2-0)
7-3-0

I got 35th which is quite okay, but I didn't claim
any prices at all.


Saturday, Legacy, about 730 players:
Again, I played the same list.
GW Combo Elves (2-1)
Canadian (2-0)
Canadian (1-2)
Sneak Show (1-2)
UR Delver (2-1)
Storm Combo (2-1)
Dragon Stompy (2-1)
Canadian (2-1)
Dredge (0-2)
6-3-0

I placed 125th.


Sunday, Vintage, about 330 players:
First of all I have to tell you a little story. When it
comes to Magic I don't really test at all (and I'm
not playing many tournaments, almost just the
bigger ones). This means all the testing is made
by my friends that are almost always playing
Dredge. The tournament is my testingfield.
Normally it works like that: "Hi Erik. Here is a
decklist and here are the boardingplans. Play it!"
And I do so. It's like I'm a maggot in bacon as
we used to call it in German ("Made im Speck" :-
D).
The events at this weekend aren't different. I got
all my decklists and boardingplans from my
friends; I activated the so called "maggot-
mode" . And here is the decklist I played in
Vintage:

25 creatures:
4 Bloodghast
4 Narcomoeba
3 Ichorid
4 Golgari Grave Troll
4 Stinkweed Imp
2 Golgari Thug
4 Ingot Chewer

19 other Spells:
2 Darkblast
4 Bridge from Below
4 Serum Powder
1 Ancient Grudge
4 Cabal therapy
4 Leyline of the Void

16 Lands :
4 Bazaar of Bagdad
4 Petrified Field
4 City of Brass
4 Undiscovered Paradise
Sideboard :

3 Wispmare
4 Unmask
4 Chain of Vapor
4 Nature's Claim


MUD (2-1)
Dredge (2-0)
Oath (2-1)
Uwb Snapcaster Control (2-0)
Dredge (2-1)
Urg Delver (2-1) Video Feature-match: http://
youtube.com/watch?desktop_uri=%2Fwatch
%3Fv
%3D95tmzW6cw4A&v=95tmzW6cw4A&gl=US
Snapcaster Control (2-0)
ID
ID
7-0-2

Top 8:
Uw Stoneforge Control (2-0) Video Feature-
match: http://youtube.com/watch?
gl=US&hl=en&client=mv-
google&rl=yes&v=8uBrQ6mRqLI

Top 4:
Uw Bomberman (2-1) Video Feature-match:
 http://youtube.com/watch?
gl=US&hl=en&client=mv-
google&rl=yes&v=qlU7ICtf_0U

Final:
Stax (2-1) Video Feature-match: http://
youtube.com/watch?gl=US&hl=en&client=mv-
google&rl=yes&v=zHVjaZSB5ng g

So, I won the whole tournament and recieved a
full set of Unlimited Power. In addition I
recieved an signed and altered Ancestral Recall
because I played an unpowered deck. And
because of that, I don't think that my friends are
going to stop calling me "die Made" (the
maggot) in the near future, but that's fine for
me .

I hope you had a good read.

Regards,

Erik"

Thanks .



I've tried out a version with Demonic and Vampiric, but I don't think they where too good in my decklist. If I would run Tutors, I have to cut Counter and without that amount of Counter I don't think this deck would work that good. But I'll test it again, maybe I just got a wrong impression.



I see your point, but this deck doesn't only rely on Chains, it relies on synergies and Chains is a part from it. Let me explain: Your opponent needs mana, which are wasted, striped, stifled or roded. Because he hasn't got enough mana, I could almost counter all of his relevant spells und beat him to death with little creatures. To get more mana he needs to cast drawspells, in which he has to discard other good cards against me just to find a land, just because of the Chains. As a phychological result of all these annoying things (I heard Disrupt is really annoying), the opponent sometimes does mistakes which seals the game just faster .
It's the whole package of hate that makes the deck quite good and of course fun to play .

I don't know how good my matchup against Ad Nauseam Tendrils or other combodecks which aren't relying on draw is, but I'll test it.

Indeed, escpecially Tinker -> Colossus and a huge Will are a problem. Maybe I have to find new solutions in the SB (eventually Tutors in the Main and two one-offs [Crypt and Echoing Truth] in the Side).

Yeah, I know that FoF and Gifts aren't drawspells and not effected by Chains, but you can't handle everythings with Chains . In that case you have to counter; if you haven't got any Counter on your hand... mh, then you need luck .


Thanks for you impressions, Phele.


Edit: Also, if you don't know it yet: Chains are commulativ. If an opponent would draw a card with two Chains on my side, he has to discard a card first. Then the drawing of the first Chains is replaced by the second one and he has to discard another. After that he could draw a card.
This wasn't the main reason I am playing the Chains, but it isn't bad for me so it's quite good .

Edit2: After goldfishing a few hands with a version that included Tutors and Echoing Truth I think it was the right choice to play without them because a problem occured: Inconsistency. I don't want to have too many one-offs even if I have Tutors. I want a card right now and not to tutor for it first.
First of all I think the problem is that you haven't played against or with the deck. It plays differently, more like a control-deck than a fish-deck. Even my teammates weren't convinced when they first saw my decklist without Tutors, but after they have seen how the deck performs and reacts in certain situations they are assured now that it is better without the Tutors.
In my eyes the deck doesn't need an answer against Tinker->Colossus. Sure, if it resolves, you'll lose the game, but you'll win more games against decks that are running it then you'll lose . Adding a solution would hurt the deck's overall performance pretty bad.

I hope you can see my point .

Hey guys,

I'm new to Vintage and attempted my first tourney about two weeks ago. I came from Legacy and I almost didn't know anything about Vintage except a few things friends told me, who play this format. About a five days before the tourney started I had to choose between playing Legacy or Vintage and I decided to play Vintage because I always wanted to. Also I was able to get lent a few power pieces.
So, within those few days I threw together a decklist, not knowing that BUG Fish as a competive deck already existed. About a week before building my deck, a card from Legends caught my attention: Chains of Mephistopheles. Even with my limited knowledge on this format, I knew (or hoped to know ) that nearly every deck is based on carddraw, so I found it a good idea to play this card in a control-shell. I also heard that Null Rod was quite good in Vintage, so I included it too.
After I got a rough, but good looking list, I discussed it with my teammates. The list got a little bit refinement, but it hasn't changed much from the original one. This is the list I played at the tourney (it wasn't a proxy-event, so I just got Black Lotus and Mox Jet):

„TMT – Wir angeln Fish mit Ketten und Stäben“
// Lands
1  Strip Mine
2  Tropical Island
1  Swamp
4  Polluted Delta
4  Wasteland
2  Flooded Strand
2  Island
3  Underground Sea

// Creatures
1  Tombstalker
4  Dark Confidant
4  Cursecatcher
4  Tarmogoyf

// Spells
3  Disrupt
1  Mox Jet
4  Force of Will
4  Daze
3  Chains of Mephistopheles
4  Null Rod
4  Stifle
1  Black Lotus
1  Lotus Petal
3  Duress

// Sideboard
SB: 2  Oxidize
SB: 2  Trygon Predator
SB: 2  Umezawa's Jitte
SB: 2  Bitterblossom
SB: 4  Yixlid Jailer
SB: 1  Annul
SB: 2  Seal of Primordium


As you can see, the SB is really random because I haven't got any time to get my hands on the cards I needed.


So, with the decklist above I went to my first Vintage tourney without any hopes of winning something. We were just 17 people and played 5 rounds. Here is a short overview about the decks I was playing against:

1.Grim Long (2-1)
2.U/W Bomberman (2-1)
3.Stax (0-2)
4.U/B Control (2-0) [I don't even know, what kind of deck it was :/]
5.U/R Painter (2-1)

I ended up in the 2nd place with a 4-1-0 record which, in my eyes, is really impressive. The Stax guy I played in round 3 took the 1st place.
Although the deck looks really similar to BUG Fish, I assume that it plays very different (I haven't even tested BUG Fish). It's more controllish by playing additional hate in form of Chains which were totally awesome all day long. Here is an example:
In the first game against the U/B Control in the 4th round he was at 1 life and I got 2 Tarmogoyfs on my side; next turn I would have killed him. His graveyard was filled with carddraw or stuff like FoF and Gifts and he has got 4 Moxen, 1 Mana Crypt and 1 Academy online + 6 other lands I think. He casted Yawghmoth's Will and normally with such an high amount of mana and draw you would win the game. He casted all high cardadvantage spells, but he could find an answer because he had to discard all his good cards (I think he started drawing with 2 cards in his hand and TfK isn't that good under Chains ). He also couldn't cast Time Twister (well, he could, but it was just a „mill the top 7 cards“-spell) and he lost the next turn.

Against any other deck except Stax (which is a bad matchup I assume), the Chains were so good, especially with a Null Rod. If you could get the Chains online, you almost have enough time to find creatures to beat your opponent to death. Also, sideboarding wasn't really necessary at the tourney.


After the event I talked to a few people and even he was okay, I cutted the Tombstalker. This is the actual decklist I'm running:


„The Fishing Rod“
// Lands
    1  Strip Mine
    2  Tropical Island
    4  Polluted Delta
    4  Wasteland
    2  Flooded Strand
    1  Island
    3  Underground Sea
    1  Bayou

// Creatures
    4  Dark Confidant
    4  Cursecatcher
    4  Tarmogoyf

// Spells
    3  Disrupt
    1  Mox Jet
    4  Force of Will
    4  Daze
    3  Chains of Mephistopheles
    4  Null Rod
    4  Stifle
    1  Black Lotus
    2  Duress
    1  Time Walk
    1  Ancestral Recall
    1  Mox Sapphire
    1  Mox Emerald


I also added one Bayou because sometimes I had color-problems and I couldn't cast a Tarmogoyf for many turn so my opponent was winning.


Some might ask themselves why I'm running the cards I'm running. Here is a little explication of the cards that might be shaky in your eyes:

- Disrupt: This card is really awesome especially in combination with Daze, Cursecatcher, LD and  Null Rod. It also provided cardadvantage and playing more counters is just too good.
- Daze: Even if this is a more controllish build, I feel like Daze is right in this deck.
- Chains of Mephistopheles: This card is just good against 80% of the metagame. Drop it, especially in combination with Null Rod, and win.

Because of the pretty bad matchup I've got against Stax, I came up with the following SB:

// Sideboard
SB: 3  Annul
SB: 4  Forbidden Orchard
SB: 4  Oath of Druids
(SB: 1  Demonic Tutor)
(SB: 1  Vampiric Tutor)
SB: 1  Akroma, Angel of Wrath
SB: 1  Hellkite Overlord

The Tutor-slots are shaky, but overall transforming into some sort of Oath is quite good I think. The Annuls are also against Stax, but against Oath too, which isn't such a good Matchup I think.


Overall the deck has got a good Matchup against almost every blue-based (except Oath, pure Aggro and maybe Fish, which is 50-50 I guess) and combo deck which, in my eyes, isn't bad . I'll  definitely play this deck again on a tourney.


Thanks for reading. I hope you like my decklist .


Edit: If this deck doesn't belong here then I'm sorry. I don't wanted to open another thread for it, if there is a similar deck out there.

Thanks for this good overview, Stephen. I played my first Vintage tourney three days ago, coming from Legacy. Actually I liked that tourney so much that I decided to play Vintage a little bit more. After reading your article, which was great, I think I'll focussing on Vintage from now on. In my eyes this format is healthier than Legacy (Counterbalance + Top and other things) and more fun. I'm glad that a friend of mine "forced" me to play at this tourney .

I hope many new players will come to Vintage after reading your article, especially here in Germany, where Legacy is dominating.