Your sarcastic comments are completely uncalled for.  I, for one, enjoyed the report. 

Have you considered Darksteel Juggernaut?

One option would be to use trash for treasure instead of or in addition to welder.  I think red had a lot going for it in this environment full of small creatures.

Has anyone tried using Ruination either instead of or in addition to moon effects?

Also, how about going with a red-based shops approach and using Mycosynth Lattice with artifact hate and splashing black for Guardian Beast?  He survives bolts and sudden snapcasters flashed in as blockers.  He also makes pulverize very one-sided.

Forgive me if these are ignorant questions but would expedition map be a good inclusion here?  How about wheel of sun and moon instead of memory's journey (can use Gaea's blessing's first ability with WOSAM in play).

Just a note to say that I don't think printing ugly new versions is a good idea.  Magic benefits from having attractive cards.  The key is just to have a new set of art, in the style of the new card frames, so the collectors can distinguish the original versions.

Also, I will make one new point that nobody has yet addressed: the Vintage format may also be dying due to an overabundance of choice in cards to play with: things were simpler when you only had 5 sets available to choose cards from.

As an *experiment*, someone might wish to run a vintage event where players can only use cards printed up through Arabian Nights (for example).  As a player, I would find that fun (I could break out my old land destruction or juzam djinn decks, both of which are "too slow" in the current version of vintage).

Telepathy... so damned annoying for everyone else at the table (he he he).

Disrupting Sceptre (ditto).

What nobody has addressed is this:

If they do not reprint the cards, and the vintage format dies completely, doesn't that reduce the value of the collectibles, too?  I think it does.

And I agree with the point that printing new versions with new artwork doesn't impact the collectibility of the original cards.

Wizards has to balance the collectibility aspect with the playability aspect, or both interests lose.  Magic is 15+ years old.  The original cardpool cannot service the playability needs of the format forever, and therefore it MUST be reprinted at some point, in some fashion, for the format to survive.

$1000 for a deck is ridiculous.  Sorry.  And I have a 6+ figure income.  People wonder why the format is dying?

Wizards needs to reprint.

/end rant.

So is this actually true?  If Wizards reprinted the old cards with new art, and the cards were affordable to collect, wouldn't you collect and play?  If so, it's not actually the proxies that make the format playable for you, correct(?), but rather it is the cost/availability?

You are being facetious.  Obviously, aesthetics of cards are subjective and some people think some are more attractive than others.  But that is besides the point because MOST people will agree that ****objectively speaking****, basic land cards marked over with Sharpie pens are not attractive.

Moreover, there is something illegitimate to playing with proxies.  If I'm playing with the real cards, that were expensive and/or difficult to acquire, it's almost unfair that you are able to compete against me playing cheap, easily acquired proxies.

You might not agree with these feelings, but it cannot be disputed that attendance at vintage events is slowly dwindling.  If the format is to be revived, Wizards must change its reprint policy.

Who are you to assume that people's hate for proxies is irrational?  Maybe it is perfectly rational, as I tried to explain above.  Many people were attracted to M:TG because of it's beautiful art, and to them, playing against proxies is like being forced to stare at something ugly.

I completely agree with Troy.  Wizards needs to change the reprint policy to give the newer players access to the same card mechanics without subjecting everyone to playing with hideously ugly proxies.  Otherwise, the format can only continue to contract.

Some of you are not playing since 1994, so here's the deal.  In the beginning, there was ONLY vintage.  The cards were available, and only moderately expensive.  As a result, people played without sleeves.  It was no big deal.

Times have changed.  There are fewer cards surviving in circulation from the ~1994 issue dates, rather than being locked away in some collector's vault.  Many of the cards that are circulated are counterfeits.  The genuine cards that remain in circulation, in good condition, are super expensive.  Nobody new is going to intentionally decide to join this format when it costs so much to get the basic tools, let alone to keep up with continual purchases as new sets are released.  I earn well into the 6 figures, and when my kid is old enough to play magic, you think I'm going to give him money to buy vintage cards?  Of course not.  What parents would?  Remember, parents (directly or indirectly) pay for a lot of the Magic cards that are bought.

What's killing the format is Wizard's reprint policy, plain and simple.  If you want a large influx of new competitors to play against in vintage tournaments, the only solution is to make a new stock of playable cards available.  People are attracted to magic because of the fantasy elements and the beautiful art.  Proxies are hideously ugly.  Bent, creased cards are repulsive, too.  People want access to playable, clean, crisp cards (with the new card smell, where possible).  That means if Wizards wants to attract players, they need to print new versions of power, dual lands, etc. so there is a reasonably priced supply of aesthetically attractive cards.

They can do it with new art so it won't affect the collectibility of the original sets, but they seem reluctant to do so.  They will be forced to eventually, and I predict that they may ultimately use Magic's 20th anniversary as an excuse to release these cards to the "new generation" of players.   It's either that, or Vintage will continue to decline to the point that nobody actually plays.

You can, but those are 1-shot deals.  Being able to persistently read your opponent, without devoting 4+ deck slots to duress can be worth 1 slot in the deck.  And the "Card Disadvantage" can be more than offset by the information advantage.  JMHO.

Telepathy. 

Great for knowing if opponent has Drain/FoW in hand, and only 1 blue mana to cast.

I sort-of agree. 

The mana base defines the format.

In the old days of vintage, White Weenie and Land Destruction were viable strategies because it took longer to establish a mana base.  The format has gotten too fast as the mana base has stabilized, especially in light of the introduction of 0 casting cost spells or alternative-costed spells like Force of Will.

I heard Neutral Ground closed.  Is there any Vintage in NYC anymore?

I would love to see some decklists using this for multiplayer.  Playing this kind of card would give my friends fits (muah ha ha ha!)

petrified field is nice, but it's a bit slow without fastbond.

Ok, thanks.  I guess the question becomes: if Trinisphere is good, is Trinishphere + Nether void better?

Hmm, is there any other mana denial strategy that could work well, based on Nether Void and Energy Flux?  Maybe in combination with Chalice?

Or is this just a dead end?

Isn't that pretty easy to disrupt?  Nether void, for example?  Or Annul? Or Force of Will?

Well, I like the use of chalice of the void and mindlock orb in Stax, but I'd like to do something a bit differently.  Specifically, I'm looking to build a deck that takes advantage of Energy Flux and Pendrell Mists/Tabernacle.

If it just sucks with actual land destruction, then I'll play Stax.

Back in the good old days, land destruction was a good basic theme for Type 1 decks, but the land destruction spells were spread over 5 colors and there weren't as many options available for establishing your mana base.  I suspect that things may have changed.  Do you guys think a Land Destruction deck could be tournament viable in the current environment?

Specifically, I was thinking of Blue/Black:

Sinkhole
Icequake
Rain of Tears
Rancid Earth
Nether Void
Underworld Dreams
Dark Ritual
Demonic Tutor
Energy Flux
Pendrell Mists
Time Walk
Time Twister
Ancestral Recall
Negate
Spell Blast
Serra Sphinx (win condition)

The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
Strip/Wasteland
Mishra's Factory Worker (win condition)

Trinisphere
Sphere of Resistance
Jade Statue (win condition)
Black Vise (win condition)
Mox Jet
Mox Sapphire
Sol Ring

What do you think?

Why aren't these cards allowed as proxies?  Isn't this the correct rule:

"The DCI Universal Rules state: 'Cards used in a tournament may not have writing on their faces other than signatures or artistic modifications.  Modifications may not obscure the artwork so as to make the card unrecognizable. If modifications to a card are deemed by the Head Judge to constitute outside notes or unsporting conduct, the player using such cards will be subject to the appropriate provisions of the DCI Penalty Guidelines.'"

Hi,

I blame the decline of Vintage on the WOTC reprint policy.  More people are stopping playing vintage than those who are starting, and the reprint policy is to blame.

Players want to play with shiny, pretty magic cards -- not beat up cards from 1994.  Not proxies made from basic lands defaced with a Sharpie.   Both of these kinds of cards are eyesores -- and they are offensive to look at.  But we can no longer justify the huge expense of obtaining enough quality vintage cards to make playing Vintage magic the fun that it used to be.  And the odds are great that if you do shell out big money for a card, it's actually a forgery.  So the reprint policy is at the expense of players, for the benefit of counterfeiters.

WOTC should either: 1) continue to sell boosters of the old product; 2) reprint the important cards from old sets with nice new artwork and mix them into new sets (the 2008 Vintage Championship Mox is a great example of what these cards can look like -- seriously it looks better than the original beta/unlimited mox!); or 3) release a new set of all of the tournament staple vintage cards with new artwork and/or a new border color.

I've been playing since 1994 and I remember, back in the day, there would be 1000 people showing up to Vintage tournaments.  The artists would show up and sign autographs.  And dealers made a fortune selling singles.  That's because the GAME of magic was more important than the collectibility of magic.  Unfortunately, WOTC hasn't realized that the collectibility will collapse if nobody plays anymore.  They need to change the reprint policy so all players can experience the excitement of the vintage format.