TheManaDrain.com
February 04, 2026, 04:18:21 am *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News:
 
  Home Help Search Calendar Login Register  
  Show Posts
Pages: [1]
1  Eternal Formats / Global Vintage Tournament Reports and Results / Re: Vintage Championships Top 8 LIVE! on: August 16, 2009, 04:10:13 pm
I believe the real story of the Vintage Championships was not the end result, but the quest to keep 5 color stacks on the map without one of the most powerful/most played cards in all of magic. (Black lotus) I observed a new vintage player by the name of Brandon Jones from MA team GFY. This was his second major vintage tourney (the first being a mox tourney in mass 12th place, and last nights vintage worlds prelim 10th place) he has ever played in. To make it to the top eight is one thing, but to be literally one card away from the finals and probably the championship is mind blowing. I feel that he is the up-in-coming vintage player. I had some time to talk to him to get some match results throughout the tourney along with his deck list after his very close semi-finals lost to the "2009 vintage champion." In this match there was everything. His match in the semis with the newly crowned champion was the match of the entire tourney. Brandon was literally a workshops away from being in the finals. A finals he would have won.

Here is his list:

NO LOTUS SHOPS

MAIN BOARD:

4 WORKSHOPS
4 GEMSTONE MINE
3 WASTELAND
2 CITY OF BRASS
1 STRIPMINE
1 BAZAAR
1 BARBARIAN RING
1 TOLARIAN ACADEMY

5 MOXEN
4 TANGLE WIRE
4 SPHERE OF RESISTANCE
3 CHALICE OF THE VOID
2 CRUCIBLE OF WORLDS
2 UBA MASK
1 TRINISPHERE
1 POWDER KEG
1 SMOKESTACK
1 LOTUS PETAL
1 SOL RING
1 MANA VAULT
1 MANA CRYPT
1 MEMORY JAR

2 ANCIENT GRUDGE
1 ANCESTRAL RECALL
1 DEMONIC TUTOR
1 VAMPIRIC TUTOR
1 CROP ROTATION
1 TINKER

4 GOBLIN WELDER
1 KARN SILVER GOLEM
1 SUNDERING TITAN
1 RAZORMANE MASTICORE
1 TRISKELION

SIDEBOARD:

4 LEYLINE OF THE VOID
2 PYROBLAST
2 ANCIENT GRUDGE
2 ENSNARING BRIDGE
1 RED ELEMENTAL BLAST
1 TORMODS CRYPT
1 TIME VAULT
1 VOLTAIC KEY

1 POWDER KEG


Ok, so lets think about this. He runs no lotus, 2 grudge main, 2 grudge board and vault/key in board. I have never seen that. Ever. I asked him how often he sided  in the vault/key and what matches he did because besides the lotus not being there, that jumped out at me. Brandon said, " Well, to be honest it's just not something you are expecting to see from shops. Against any sort of G/B aggro it is ridiculous. They have two outs. Null rod and oxidize. That's it. With the two ancient grudges in the main, the null rods mean nothing and if they waste the vault then who cares. You just lock them out with another piece they won't be able to deal with. For example, round three in game two I played against G/B and sided the combo in game 2. I went (second obviously) he played a land and said go for his first turn. I went mox + shops + vault + key = infinite turns? Then he oxidized it. So, after he played an irrelevent turn 2 I wasted his 1 land and dropped trinisphere. Good game. Two scoops. It is very good in the mirror of any form because they just can't deal with it. Except welder. Who you just kill. Razormane for the win? Exactly." So, the big question was why he wasn't running black lotus. His reply, "Well, I obviously don't have the money to go buying a lotus. I work a lot and have a lot of bills. I play a lot of type two now. Lucky for me one of my best friends has a huge collection and i pretty much borrow whatever whenever. However, after the outcome of today I'm not sure if I will ever put lotus in. I know it sounds crazy and/or "awful" but think of it like this. Turn one if you are playing countrol and i play shops lotus, what happens? Lotus gets countered. If i go shops, petal what happens? They let the petal go and then it's over. I bait with welder (they counter) and I drop lock piece. From there on in I just ride the wave controlling their lands and tapping them down with tangle wire. I have had possibly one time where I wished it was a lotus and it was in the prelims. I won that match anyway. So, at no point did i need it. Could it have helped? Possibly. Could it have ruined my day if i had it? Probably. If you are playing tezz and thinking, I would let the lotus resolve then you are a liar. Every time I've done it or seen it done it's happened. I've been testing this list back home with my team and I feel like I've worked very hard on it and I'm extremely happy with my results."   Between his arrogance, ego, listening to his Ipod (switching songs mid match thinking "I don't care what you play, I'm locking you out.") and just overall attitude he was definitly one of the most entertaining players I've seen in a long time. If you ever meet him, ask him about some of his matches. They are completely hilarious.

So, I believe Brandon has picked up where the N.Y.S.E left off after turning away all the disbelievers and putting STAX back on the map. The best two stax/shops lists to date in my opinion are NYSE & NO LOTUS 5C SHOPS. NYSE has been proven (if you read back to the article one of them posted) but if you give it time and see other players play Brandon's list then that could change very quickly)

Lastly, I asked him what he thought of the field at the 2009 vintage tourney here at Gencon and this is what he said: (This made my day.) "Fish sucks, bug fish sucks, brown stax sucks, dredge sucks, 7 card draw tezz sucks and W/G aggro sucks. Go back to the drawing board and stop saturating important events with that trash because you want to nuke tezz even more. Just because you think you can beat tezz, doesn't mean you're going to. Tezz won worlds and his list was questionable. Now imagine if an established player with a real tezz list played? You might as well just hand him your money. I don't like playing against Tezz every round but that's just how it is or was anyway. I hate hearing how W/G players say how they smash stacks/shops and then loose to them in the top 8. It's one thing to beat random scrubs round 1- 6 playing stax, but when you barely make it to the top 8 and proceed to loose miserably doesn't that tell you something? I've never lost to that deck. Just my opinion. What do i know right? This is my second vintage tourney. If ratings mattered in vintage, I'd be a 2000 after today. I know there are a lot of players that are going to read what you post and think very negative of me and that's fine. What do I know right? I top was in the top 4 at vintage championships. #1 SHOPS list at the vintage championship. Where were they? That would be at the bottom of the pairings list. Just play my list and win. No scrubs allowed."That's all i have for you all. I look forward to see his performance in Legacy and some side vintage events tomorrow. I'm telling you, look out for this guy. He means buisness. Try his list out. Best stax player I've ever seen and obviously he should be. He was the top stax player in the world championship. (If you weren't there to stay the best, you aren't the best for all of you who are thinking about who wasn't there.) Remember for all you blue players, if you let lotus petal resolve then you are probably going to get smashed and humilated. Does stax need lotus? I don't think so.

- Max Bennet.




 





I have a new favorite player.
2  Eternal Formats / Global Vintage Tournament Reports and Results / Re: [EPIC THREAD] Pheldagrif's Vintage Championship thread with bonus challenge! on: August 12, 2009, 05:19:37 pm
3  Eternal Formats / Global Vintage Tournament Reports and Results / Re: [EPIC THREAD] Pheldagrif's Vintage Championship thread with bonus challenge! on: August 12, 2009, 03:47:14 pm
4  Eternal Formats / Global Vintage Tournament Reports and Results / Re: [EPIC THREAD] Pheldagrif's Vintage Championship thread with bonus challenge! on: August 12, 2009, 03:39:35 pm
5  Eternal Formats / Global Vintage Tournament Reports and Results / Re: The Cave Open 25th of July (Norway, budget, in a cave!) on: July 30, 2009, 04:10:23 pm
Gross! This was totally my idea!
Good job guys, looks like it was a lot of fun.
6  Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: Best win condition for Manaless Ichorid? on: July 12, 2009, 09:54:35 am
Sadistic hypnotist
7  Archives / Tournament Announcement Forum / Re: Vintage Tournament for a MOX SAPPHIRE Saturday 8/29 on: July 11, 2009, 08:14:40 pm
I will be here also.
8  Archives / Tournament Announcement Forum / Re: Vintage Tournament for a MOX RUBY Saturday 9/19 on: July 11, 2009, 08:14:08 pm
I will be here.
9  Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: BG Crop Rotation Aggro on: June 21, 2009, 09:07:03 am
// Lands
    1  Maze of Ith
    4  Windswept Heath
    4  Wasteland
    1  Strip Mine
    1  The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
    1  Mishra's Workshop
    1  Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    4  Bayou
    4  Bazaar of Baghdad

// Creatures
    4  Dark Confidant
    4  Tarmogoyf

// Spells
    1  Fastbond
    3  Crucible of Worlds
    1  Black Lotus
    1  Imperial Seal
    2  Entomb
    1  Yawgmoth's Will
    4  Duress
    4  Thoughtseize
    1  Demonic Tutor
    1  Vampiric Tutor
    3  Crop Rotation
    1  Mox Emerald
    3  Life from the Loam
    4  Null Rod
    1  Mox Jet


Don't just post a decklist without any explanation.  Why did you choose 3 Crucibles instead of 4? Why not play the max number of Rotations?  What's the idea behind including Yawgmoth's Will?  Just dropping a list in an empty space does nothing to add to the discussion.

After I posted it I went to edit it and apparently it didn't save. I'm going to fix the post again, give me a few.
10  Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: BG Crop Rotation Aggro on: June 21, 2009, 06:47:58 am
]// Lands
    1  Maze of Ith
    4  Windswept Heath
    4  Wasteland
    1  Strip Mine
    1  The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
    1  Mishra's Workshop
    1  Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    4  Bayou
    4  Bazaar of Baghdad

// Creatures
    4  Dark Confidant
    4  Tarmogoyf

// Spells
    1  Fastbond
    4  Crucible of Worlds
    1  Black Lotus
    1  Imperial Seal
    4  Duress
    4  Thoughtseize
    1  Demonic Tutor
    1  Vampiric Tutor
    4  Crop Rotation
    1  Mox Emerald
    4  Life from the Loam
    4  Null Rod
    1  Mox Jet

I tried to make a list and that is what I got. I could probably fit in entomb somewhere, and I think it would help, but Im not sure where to fit it in. I'm running only 1 workshop because I figure I can tutor for it, but maybe I should be running more than one. The maze and tabernacle are basically toolbox lands that can be grabbed. I tried to focus on loam because it seems really great, but now that I think of it, maybe a zombie infestation combo with it may work. It might be too slow, but like I said, I made this in 45 minutes or so.
11  Archives / Tournament Announcement Forum / Re: ELD's Mox 22 - 4/11 Fall River, MA on: April 11, 2009, 10:25:04 am
Ill be there if i can find a ride.

Where does thou live?

I live in tewksbury. I'm only 16 though so I don't know if you would want to bring me. I can give some money.

Oh, boy. I love carpooling, but i'm nowhere near there.

That's fine. I'll find a ride somehow anyways.
12  Archives / Tournament Announcement Forum / Re: ELD's Mox 22 - 4/11 Fall River, MA on: April 10, 2009, 04:11:15 pm
Ill be there if i can find a ride.

Where does thou live?

I live in tewksbury. I'm only 16 though so I don't know if you would want to bring me. I can give some money.
13  Archives / Tournament Announcement Forum / Re: ELD's Mox XXIII May 2nd Worcester, MA Vintage Reborn on: April 10, 2009, 04:10:25 pm
Might make this one too.
14  Archives / Tournament Announcement Forum / Re: ELD's Mox 22 - 4/11 Fall River, MA on: April 10, 2009, 09:38:41 am
Ill be there if i can find a ride.
15  Vintage Community Discussion / Casual Forum / Re: Steals on: April 09, 2009, 08:53:11 pm
Lets see....

One time I bought a futuresight pack for a dollar and got a steamflogger boss...

Nevermind.
16  Eternal Formats / Blue-Based Control / Re: Optimizing Tezzeret on: April 05, 2009, 05:39:11 pm
Appreciate what you're trying to do, but let the Mods handle the moderation.  This thread is going in a bad direction, but I really don't want to lock it because I'm interested in the discussion myself.  So from here on out it's full warnings for anything close to a flame in this thread. -Eastman
17  Eternal Formats / Blue-Based Control / Re: Optimizing Tezzeret on: April 05, 2009, 01:14:01 pm
Perhaps now, M.SOLOMOSSY will understand better the logical behind my choice to run it.... And stop saying that 5 manas

The only thing I'm understanding is you're doing an awful job of convincing me this isn't terrible.  As Jimmy (LHC) pointed out,Tarmogoyf>Razormane Masticore.  You will never race a GOOD fish player, and you won't be killing their biggest threat (Goofus). 

And yes, cards in hand actually do matter against fish, because if they grind your cards down, they will just end up dealing with your razormane masticore.  if they have two tarmogoyfs down, even if you shoot one, they can just trade with you, since that guy is always a 5/6 against Tezzeret. 


I fully agree with Mike.
18  Archives / Tournament Announcement Forum / Re: Hadley, MA Vintage Tournament for a Grim Tutor Sunday, April 19 on: March 14, 2009, 06:14:46 pm
This looks baller. I might go.
19  Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: What robot should I run in my Tezzeret deck? on: March 14, 2009, 05:28:11 pm
Also, your bad matchup, (Shops), can not deal with inky. Especially mono red.
20  Eternal Formats / Global Vintage Tournament Reports and Results / Re: Helsinki 7th March Mox Tournament - Results and Decklists on: March 12, 2009, 08:06:28 pm
Maybe he just pretended to be a scrub to get the upper hand.
21  Eternal Formats / Blue-Based Control / Re: Optimizing Tezzeret on: March 10, 2009, 03:52:50 pm
Hey guys, i'm running this right now:

// Lands
    3 Polluted Delta
    1 Tolarian Academy
    3 Flooded Strand
    3 Island
    3 Underground Sea
    2 Volcanic Island

// Creatures
    1 Tezzeret the Seeker
    1 Inkwell Leviathan

// Spells
    1 Ponder
    1 Voltaic Key
    1 Skeletal Scrying
    1 Gifts Ungiven
    1 Fact or Fiction
    1 Ancestral Recall
    1 Sensei's Divining Top
    1 Brainstorm
    1 Time Walk
    1 Mystical Tutor
    1 Merchant Scroll
    1 Vampiric Tutor
    1 Demonic Tutor
    1 Time Vault
    4 Force of Will
    1 Mana Crypt
    1 Black Lotus
    4 Thirst for Knowledge
    4 Mana Drain
    1 Mana Vault
    1 Yawgmoth's Will
    1 Tinker
    4 Duress
    1 Misdirection
    1 Echoing Truth
    1 Mox Emerald
    1 Sol Ring
    1 Mox Sapphire
    1 Mox Ruby
    1 Mox Pearl
    1 Mox Jet

// Sideboard
SB: 2 Firespout
SB: 2 Yixlid Jailer
SB: 1 Relic of Progenitus
SB: 1 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 2 Propaganda
SB: 3 Annul
SB: 1 Glen Elendra Archmage
SB: 2 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 1 Hurkyl's Recall

If you guys could change anything about it, what would it be? Stax blows me out right now as i'm not sure how to board against it, or what to board.

Thanks Smile
22  Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: What robot should I run in my Tezzeret deck? on: March 02, 2009, 02:27:33 pm
I also like Inkwell. It cant be bounced and it pitches to fow. Oh, it has trample too. Oh, and it also has Islandwalk.
23  Eternal Formats / Blue-Based Control / Re: [Deck] ICBM Oath for Vintage 2.0 on: March 01, 2009, 07:13:56 pm
Oath is dead, Telemin Performance rules your metagame, lose to me now and don't try later....

Is that a joke?   Because I lold.

What makes you think that you can resolve a 5 mana sorcery, before the oath player resolves a 2 mana enchant?  If Telemin Performance was going to be good, we would see more decks running Aquire today.

I also laughed at this. The scary thing was I debated for a split second if it was sideboard worthy. It is not.
24  Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: What are the most powerful/viable cards that you think are underplayed? on: March 01, 2009, 07:11:25 pm
How would Time Vault combo with Umbral Mantle?
25  Eternal Formats / Global Vintage Tournament Reports and Results / Re: Astro City Games 2/28/09 on: March 01, 2009, 04:22:05 pm
I beleive what happened was he had Voltiac Key out and a Necropotence (at 1 life and locked out of draw steps for the rest of the game). So his options were get DSC and never win, or get Time Vault and 'draw'.

Its been pointed out that this 'draw' is technically cheating but it was a 7 person tournament and I don't think Isaac (or anyone else there) is rules savvy enough to realize that.

This is most likely.
26  Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: Mind of The Seeker on: February 26, 2009, 07:05:03 pm
Seems interesting, but how is it better than normal tez?
27  Eternal Formats / Global Vintage Tournament Reports and Results / Are you retarded!? on: February 26, 2009, 06:54:18 pm
Thanks for the lists, great top 8!

Jared's list has 19 SB cards
Matt's list misses 4 MD cards


They are clearly to cast chain of vapor!

Clearly, lol.
28  Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: Need deck for Bazaar of Moxen 3... what about Zoo? on: February 21, 2009, 06:43:53 pm
How about Shay's elves list? It's in the tourney report section or something like that.
29  Eternal Formats / Creative / Mind of The Seeker on: February 21, 2009, 03:19:39 pm
Hi guys, it's time for me to put ahead the result of my Tezzeret testing!!

The decklist that you are about to see was made by two of my teammates Ugo Rivard & Ian Sauvé Team CRET, Montreal. Some of you might remember Ugo for stealing the top prices at the SCG: Rochester tourneys (more than once!!!) The first time would be when we quebecers brought to the world the name deck "Bomberman"... But for you to know, Ugo wasn't playing "Bomberman", he was playing CONTROL SLAVER.

He's doing very very well with this deck from there 'till now. Winning a couple of tournament around Quebec, making a lot of top 4/top 8 appearances, Ugo has a certain fervor for the deck!!! Every now and then the decklist of Control Slaver changed a bit but those were minor modification/tweaking from the original decklist. The shell of the deck will never go away... The deck is doing well in the new "Magic" environment (restriction and all new decks) but needed maybe a new twist to be more consistent. When I showed up with Tezzeret at a Poker/Ante night, it all gotten started. We talked for hours about how Wizards could remove/make an errata on Time Vault and releasing Tezzeret at the same time!?!? A one card combo, that pitch to Force of Will and Misdirection. Conclusion, we had to play it.

Ok, now we can go back to the deck. This isn't a Tezzeret decklist with Welders in it... don't get me wrong... it's a CONTROL SLAVER decklist with Tezzeret combo in it. (!?!?!?!?) Same thing, no! Look alike, yes! The approach is totally different if you're playing Tezz or Slaver... you probably won't make the same decisions from one deck to the other because of the card pool/backup plans you have and number of kills.

Basically, we took out the combo pieces from Control Slaver and replaces them for Tezzeret combo.

And that the result is called:
MIND OF THE SEEKER.

creature [5]

2 Goblin Welder

1 Gorilla Shaman

1 Platinum Angel

1 Triskelion

instant [21]

1 Ancestral Recall

1 Brainstorm

1 Echoing Truth

1 Fire / Ice

4 Force of Will

4 Mana Drain

3 Misdirection

1 Mystical Tutor

4 Thirst for Knowledge

1 Vampiric Tutor

sorcery [6]

1 Demonic Tutor

1 Imperial Seal

1 Merchant Scroll

1 Time Walk

1 Tinker

1 Yawgmoth's Will

artifact [11]

1 Black Lotus

1 Mana Crypt

1 Mana Vault

1 Mindslaver

1 Mox Emerald

1 Mox Jet

1 Mox Pearl

1 Mox Ruby

1 Mox Sapphire

1 Sol Ring

1 Time Vault

land [15]

2 Flooded Strand

3 Island

1 Library of Alexandria

3 Polluted Delta

1 Tolarian Academy

2 Underground Sea

3 Volcanic Island

planeswalker [2]

2 Tezzeret the Seeker

60 cards
Sideboard:

3 Ingot Chewer

1 Sundering Titan

1 Pyroblast

2 Red Elemental Blast

1 Gaea's Blessing

2 Pyroclasm

2 Blood Moon

3 Threads of Disloyalty

15 cards

I tried so hard to make them include 1x Voltaic Key but I failed the mission.
They told me over and over that the Key IS a dead card in your hand 97% of the time. So her inclusion would be card disadvantage and card advantage is probably the Key of this deck!!! (No dead cards in hand)
That's why we play 2x Ancestral Recall (meaning 1x Ancestral Recall main deck and the one in YOUR deck with 3x Misdirection!!) Wink

So that's the idea we had behind our heads when building this deck...

Thanks,

Lil Joe
Pages: [1]
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.049 seconds with 17 queries.