TheManaDrain.com
February 13, 2026, 11:31:37 am *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News:
 
  Home Help Search Calendar Login Register  
  Show Posts
Pages: [1]
1  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: Innistrad - past in flames on: September 14, 2011, 08:47:18 am
This card is not modal. It will hit both instants and sorceries, at sorcery speed. It will also only give the "temporary" bonus of Flashback to cards already in the graveyard, but if you have created enough mana and want to re-cast some cards put into your graveyard from your hand, library, or other zone, you can likewise just use this at its Flashback cost.

It has significant power restraints and increases over a Yawgmoth's Will, all of which have been discussed in this thread, and none of which (I feel) will truly matter if a deck is created to abuse it. Yawgmoth's Will is looking to get lands, artifacts, and all the other non-instant/non-sorcery cards because those decks have access to those cards. There are enough instants and sorceries available to abuse this card.

EDIT: Also, it should be noted, that the wording on this card will end up making a huge difference. If the final version reads "instants or sorceries IN your graveyard," then things from your hand or other zone will not gain Flashback; however, if it reads "instants or sorceries FROM your graveyard," then it should grant them Flashback, from what I can gather about card language and templating. Though, it appears that this is so far away even from the spoiled text, it should not matter.
2  Eternal Formats / Creative / 4-color Junk on: October 18, 2010, 11:29:33 am
I have recently been molding a 4-color aggro/control/"junk" deck for a 10-proxy environment. Since I do not own Forces, Mana Drains, or any of the strong blue cards, blue is the color that is missing. Since there have been a lot of lists posted lately about 5-color "Fish" decks and BW aggro/control lists, I figure there are enough people thinking about the ideas of the decks that could possibly help me.

We have a smaller metagame, consisting of mostly other junk, Bob Tendrils, some not-fully-powered Workshops and Oath, Dredge, and some Legacy stuff that has been ported over (Merfolk, BWg Junk similar to B. Nelson's list, etc).

The idea for this deck was to have many answers in different colors and casting costs to handle different threats. Sphinx of the Steel Wind was a real killer for RG; shroud is a real killer for everything; Oath has the propensity to crush creature-based strategies.

Creaures:
1 Qasali Pridemage
2 Leonin Arbiter
4 Bob
1 Jotun Grunt
1 Aven Mindcensor
2 Gaddok Teeg
1 Goblin Welder
2 Magus of the Moon
1 Taurean Mauler

Sorceries and Instants:
3 Swords to Plowshares
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Nature's Claim
3 Thoughtseize
1 Duress
1 Extirpate
1 Serenity
1 Aura of Silence
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Darkblast
1 Crop Rotation
1 Diabolic Edict
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
2 Lightning Bolt
1 Lightning Helix

Enchantments and Artifacts:
1 Fastbond
2 Crucible of Worlds
1 Zuran Orb
1 Elixir of Immortality

Mana:
1 Black Lotus
4 On-color Mox
1 Sol Ring
2 Marsh Flat
1 Windswept Heath
1 Bloodstained Mire
2 Swamp
2 Plains
1 Forest
1 Mountain
2 Scrubland
1 Taiga
1 Bojuka Bog

As you can see, it appears to be a "silver bullet" strategy. However, there is redundancy in the desired effects across different colors and different mana costs. I realize there are some odd choices, and I will explain a few of them.

Magus of the Moon: I run only one card with a double-color requirement of the same color (Aura of Silence), so I feel it is safe to run a few of each basic land and this guy. He really kills a lot of the strategies of opposing decks. Since I can operate under it with the basics I have (and the moxes, assuming no Null Rod), it is rarely an issue. And if there is ever a card I need, I generally have an option in another color.

Elixir of Immortality: Between the little fetches, Bob, and Thoughtseizes, having a little extra life was helpful. It also helps if I dredge down answers with Darkblast, or I need to get back a countered or played answer sitting in my graveyard.

There is an equal split of mana across the color requirements (if you exclude Bojuka Bog): there are 14 white and black costs in cards, and equal amount of mana or ways to find that mana across the deck; there are 8 green and red costs in cards, and equal amount of mana or ways to find that mana across the deck.

There is no sideboard, as that changes a lot, but imagine more of the maindeck in the sideboard, and there are 61 cards maindeck. I added Bojuka Bog as extra mana and dredge hate. Crop Rotation has served as a pretty good instant-speed graveyard hoser with the Bog, and I am not sure if I should really cut anything as it has not hindered the overall strategy.

Notable Exclusions: Since there is no real "focused" idea of the deck (mana denial, board control, etc.), I run no Strip Mine, Wasteland, or board sweepers (Balance). I am not sure if I need to. The deck is a lot of fun to play, but definitely not tier-1. It struggles in most game 1s, but it also has the ability to find an adequate answer to most threats without being too thin.
3  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: [SCD] Precursor Golem on: September 14, 2010, 01:28:58 pm
Keep in mind that creature types don't show up solely on creatures anymore...it's quite possible that they left the card type open-ended on purpose. It's not too far-fetched for them to create a "Tribal Enchantment - Golem" card.

Okay. I looked at Cloudgoat Ranger and this makes sense. Point proven.

All our Karns are in trouble...  Sad
4  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: [SCD] Precursor Golem on: September 14, 2010, 01:17:53 pm

Ah, this is wrong. A Golem is a creature type and doesn't care if it attached to a card or a token. if someone targets ANY of your Golems (token or non-token) with a spell that spell will be copied and for each Golem in play and target them. This is a pretty simple concept people.

-Storm

The templating for this is different, as there has never been any precedence for referencing a creature type without using the word creature in the templating. This makes it a confusing concept. For example, look at every lord ever created, then look at Precursor Golem. Precursor Golem has created an Artifact Creature -- Golem named Golem. It has a name for targeting purposes. (Think killing a Plant token created by Avenger of Zendikar with Maelstrom Pulse.) If the effect of Precursor Golem killed all Golem creatures, it would say that, but it does not. And if that is the intent, Wizards is changing their card text, and that is confusing.
5  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: [SCD] Precursor Golem on: September 14, 2010, 01:02:14 pm
Guys, when cards reference themselves they shorten their names.  Someone nature's claiming one of the tokens does not get to nature's claim your Lodestone.  If they did, it would say "all other golems you control."
I'm afraid you are mistaken. For a start, the two tokens are not copies of Precursor Golem, they are simply Golem tokens. By the logic you're using, targeting the original copies the spell to all other Precursor Golem cards in play, but never affects the tokens. that seems silly.

Also, if you look at Coralhelm Commander as an example of recent templating, creature subtypes are indeed capitalized.

Yes, but Coralhelm Commander reads "Merfolk creatures." Precursor Golem just reads "Golems." It is not referencing the creature type; it is referencing the created tokens. You get to keep your 3/3 for 5 if one of the tokens are targeted.

Edit: Think of it in the way you would with Maelstrom Pulse targeting, well, anything. Anything with that same exact name will die. If you target a Golem (the created token) with a Doomblade, all of those Golems will die, but not your Precursor Golem.
6  Vintage Community Discussion / Rules Q&A / Priority and response question: on: October 20, 2009, 02:21:07 pm
The situation is as follows:

I attack with my 2/2 Putrid Leech. My opponent blocks with a Steppe Lynx. My opponent says: "Your responses first." It is my priority and I choose to not pump him. My opponent uses Harrow to make his guy a 4/5.

My question is: I will receive priority again, correct? We would not move beyond the Declare Blockers Step until we both consecutively pass priority, right? He tried to say that since I already passed priority, I cannot choose to respond to him pumping his guy. I am holding Vines of Vastwood, so his guy would have died. Was he just attempting to win combat through lies or am I just misinterpreting the rules?
7  Vintage Community Discussion / Non-Vintage / Help me decide! on: October 08, 2009, 06:53:36 pm
I do not play standard much. I do not know much about the metagame here other than a lot of people are playing full-tilt Cascade Control. I have playtested both of these decks and they both have game against CasCon, but I cannot figure out which is more potent or what cards to bring in or take out.

So, the two lists:

4x Bloodbraid
4x Sprouting Thrinax
4x Jund Sojourners
4x Elvish Visionary
2x Wooly Thoctar

4x Path to Peace
4x Captured Sunlight
4x Maelstrom Pulse
3x Planar Chaos
2x Grim Discovery
2x Harrow
1x Colossal Might

1x Wildfield Borderpost
1x Firewild Borderpost
4x Sunpetal Grove
1x Rootbound Crag
3x Forest
2x Plains
2x Swamp
1x Mountain
1x Turntimber Grove
1x Teetering Peaks
1x Kabira Crossroads
1x Piranha Marsh
2x Savage Lands
1x Jungle Shrine
1x Kazandu Refuge

A few notes about the deck: it plays a lot like a normal Jund aggro deck sans Blightning. Jund Sojourners is an amazing flip on cascade, but if it is in my hand, I sometimes just find myself rather wanting to cycle it even though there is not much that dies to just the 1 damage. The Visionaries are left over from a previous iteration that abused Manamorphose and the elf to draw multiple cards per turn for massive card advantage in addition to the faux-advantage warranted through cascade. I am not sure if I should replace them as they are pretty much the only extra draw I have, and if I went into top-deck mode, I feel the deck might flounder. I am already pretty threat-light, so unless another creature that does something awesome, I am not sure what I would want in that spot. I think I want 1 more black/red source, and I am thinking using Dragonskull Summit in the place of Colossal Might, even though it is randomly amazing. Harrow + Grim Discovery is great to return a mid- to late-game Bloodbraid + land, which is usually one of the ETBT Zendikar lands. I never usually have a problem playing Planar Cleansing, and without other mass removal, I like it -- being able to get rid of everything is extremely relevant in this token/planeswalker/artifact heavy meta.

Other options I have: Vampire Hexmage to get rid of planeswalkers and get in some damage or first strike a few dudes. Oblivion Ring also seems pretty strong here. Blightning is possible, but it does not fit with the theme of the rest of the deck. Baneslayer is great, but I found myself cascading right by it most times, and that was disappointing.

--------------------------------------------

The other deck is very similar in principle -- take advantage of cascade and removal to gain board position, then win with a few threats:

2x Liliana Vess
1x Jace Beleren
4x Esper Sojourners
1x Ob Nixilis, the Fallen
1x Enigma Sphinx
3x Oblivion Ring
1x Rite of Replication
4x Ponder
4x Deny Reality
3x Bituminous Blast
4x Terminate
4x Blightning
4x Esper Charm
1x Expedition Map

1x Marsh Flats
2x Drowned Catacombs
4x Glacial Fortress
1x Piranha Marsh
1x Kabira Crossroads
1x Plains
3x Island
3x Swamp
4x Mountain
3x Crumbling Necropolis
1x Akoum Refuge

A few notes: The 4th Bit Blast seemed unnecessary with as much other stuff I was using to control board position, so I decided to try Expedition Map and it has been pretty good, if unspectacular. The charms act like Blightning 5-8, but sometimes they are used to draw cards. Jace and Ponder are the weakest cards to flip to cascade, but they are almost necessary to keep me going with cards. Ob Nixilis has been pretty stellar in testing, almost single-handedly winning me a few games. Rite of Replication has been used a few times to copy Anathemancer out of the board, and that has sometimes been enough to win games. But I never want to see it in my hand as I never want to play it. It seems almost win-more, but every time I test without it, I miss it being randomly awesome.

I think I want one of the Mountains to be Dragonskull Summit, as I needed one more red source, but I dropped a few red cards in favor of O Ring, so I am not sure if I should just switch it.

--------------------------------------

I am not much of a T2 player, so I never know what to expect in the metagame. I just play T2 for the fun and both of these decks are fun. What can I do to make them more competitive (and thus, more fun)? Acquiring cards is no issue, so any suggestion will be highly considered.

Thanks for the little help you can provide ;]

(A note: neither manabase seems to have a lot of problem since cascade is usually seen as a slow start, so I have time to balance out around 10-12 life and start taking over the game. Straight aggro kills though, but I am not sure if I can really do anything to combat that with either deck.)

8  Eternal Formats / Eternal Article Discussion / Re: [Premium Article] The COMPLETE Vintage Checklist! on: October 06, 2009, 02:09:05 pm
Taken to the extreme, why not just say to people: find out what deck you want to play, and buy the cards for that deck?  Then this whole exercise is pointless. 

And, in any case, this is, after all, a piece of entertainment.  The hope is that people enjoy the article, regardless. 

You misinterpreted what I said.

I was not suggesting that the list was useless and that you should just tell people to buy what is in their deck. It was meant as a way to extract from the list the most valuable cards to a player. Say the list has Thirst for Knowledge on it. That card is more powerful than something like Compulsive Research, which draws just as many cards and allows the player to discard just as many. One is an instant and one is a sorcery. The function of both is entirely different. But you specifically noted that Thirst for Knowledge is a card they should pick up, even though Compulsive Research looks like an adequate replacement (when it is not). The player can cross-reference their two choices and make a decision. That is what I was speaking of -- the onus ultimately fell on the player, but your list served as guidance.

Quick addendum: this is recursive to my argument about making the list easier for a new player to distinguish between the different strength or purchasing merits of specific cards, but we already covered that it was my issue that I skipped over the titling. So it is really moot, the argument as a whole. The list can reliably be used as a quick "Should I get this?" for a new player, which I am sure was its ultimate purpose.
9  Eternal Formats / Eternal Article Discussion / Re: [Premium Article] The COMPLETE Vintage Checklist! on: October 06, 2009, 01:05:52 pm
@Smmenen

I guess in my perfunctory look, I glanced over the titling of each of the groups. Though, I guess if a list is this extensive, a lot of the onus is left to the reader to decide their direction (deck, play style, etc) and then buy the cards that go into those particular decks. In leveraging effort versus outcome, this might be the simplest and cleanest way to present such a list.

(I am not arguing the cards that are listed specifically because, as I stated, I do not see the shifts as quickly as others might, and I do not research the trends, because the same Oath deck in my area can win any given week, and it is still the same Oath deck that was popular in 2004. But from a presentation point of view, this might be the best way to present it for the uninitiated.)

At the very least, thanks for that effort.
10  Eternal Formats / Eternal Article Discussion / Re: [Premium Article] The COMPLETE Vintage Checklist! on: October 06, 2009, 09:38:33 am
In fairness to Steve, I'll frame this by pointing out that there are two serious T1 profiles: (1) those that want to be able to play anything T1, and (2) people who want to be able to always compete in a T1 tourney (of any size).

The first group should buy noble hierarchs, the second group shouldn't bother.  I've been happy and successful for six years on control (...and aggro/combo-control) card selection.  E.g., this would include Spell Pierce, but exclude tarmogoyf and noble hierarch.

I was not trying to assert that Stephen's suggestion was incorrect and that Noble Hierarch is bad. But, as it appears we both agree, buying a set of Moxes and Black Lotus is more efficacious to the goal of competing in a high-profile tournament than buying a set of Noble Hierarchs. It might be more useful if the complete or master list of T1 cards was separated by which cards should be bought primary, secondary, and tertiary. Imagining a list, there is still quite a lot of power in the secondary and tertiary groups. A card like Tolarian Academy may be in the secondary list because it is not necessarily in every blue deck anymore. A card like Tarmogoyf may also be secondary, as it is very good in an aggro-control shell and in sideboards, but it does not always appear in what might be considered Tier-1 decks. Tertiary cards may be things like Fastbond or Diminishing Returns -- playable cards based on past performance that may not have a deck that will readily accept them at this time.

As you say, a playset of CotV will have a greater EV than Elves in the life of Vintage, but I think that is comparing apples to oranges. Their range of power and usefulness are in different realms. An Elves player is likely 1) a budget player, 2) a new player, or 3) playing against the metagame. A player using CotV can be reasonably expected to know the power value of a card in Vintage. If the Elves deck was listed, we can assume it would be of minimal importance to pick up the cards, but a new player may start from the bottom (cheapest or tertiary purchase list) and work up from there. Lumping CotV and Elves in the same list belies the true value of the listed cards.
11  Eternal Formats / Eternal Article Discussion / Re: [Premium Article] The COMPLETE Vintage Checklist! on: October 05, 2009, 03:14:51 pm
Perhaps my perspective will help Stephen see Matt's point of view a bit better. I am not a new Magic player, nor am I new to Vintage. But my area has no T1 metagame and next to no T1 players, so I do not see the constant shift in the card pool as clearly nor as quickly as others might.

The article would be better served if the inclusion/exclusion criteria were the same for each card. I read all of the article and I still have to agree with Matt: excluding or including something on personal bias is unfair to the new or under-exposed audience. From what I understand, Stephen used DR in a deck he played some years ago, and has enjoyed its successes. That does not necessarily make it successful now. However, that does not preclude DR from being successful in a future metagame shift or through the use of some sort of technology that can abuse it. It also appears that Stephen's personal bias against Elves has lead to their exclusion, even if there was some modicum of success recently. To say a card or set of cards is successful/unsuccessful based on personal bias may lead to an ambiguous interpretation of the card or set of cards.

To elucidate, it would help if there were two lists that serve different purposes: 1) a list of the type that TheBrassMan says he would make, to include P9, TV, or whatever the current metagame suggests is most valuable to the format (maybe a sub-50-count list); and 2) a longer list that clearly distinguishes between tournament-worthy based on performance and tournament-worthy based on good theory.

The current list might not lend itself to that sort of structure. As I recall, Stephen suggested that Noble Hierarch was definitely a card that people needed to grab from the Shards block as it will see play. People kept those cards and it in fact does see play. However, it is a niche card and it is really only played in UGW Fish. Is this something every T1 newcomer should buy? I imagine the resounding answer is no, as most T1 players gravitate to the decks with the strongest card draw, win condition, or overall power. That is not to say that UGW Fish is lacking any of those things; Noble Hierarch just does not fit into a TV/Key list. If the best decks are always running the same 40-50 card base, why are those cards not regarded as being the 40 or 50 cards that new T1 players should pick up, with everything else being secondary or even tertiary purchases?

I hope this helps.
12  Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: B/W Unpowered control on: September 02, 2009, 01:52:07 pm
A little-considered common from Guildpact named Castigate might be good for disruption in this deck since your only two colors are black and white, so getting the  {W} {B} for the cost is not a stretch.
13  Vintage Community Discussion / Casual Forum / Re: Looking to build budget mono white control on: April 17, 2009, 08:08:13 am
I guess it is just locally.  Sad
14  Vintage Community Discussion / Casual Forum / Re: Looking to build budget mono white control on: April 16, 2009, 10:46:23 pm
Oblivion Ring
Path to Exile
Martial Coup (so much fun)

Oblivion Ring is like $2 for a playset. Path to Exile can fetch $5 for a playset, usually $4. Martial Coup, you can get them in the $2-3 a piece range.

15  Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: In T1 nomenclature: OathLong? on: March 27, 2009, 01:20:31 pm
I could remove:

1x Crucible (redundant with Yawgmoth's Will)
1x Cunning Wish
1x Burning Wish
1x Lat-Nam's Legacy
1x Tropical Island
1x Underground Sea
1x Flooded Strand
1x Tomorrow, Azami's Familiar
1x Mountain
1x Swamp
1x Tolarian Wind
1x Imperial Seal (weakest tutor)
1x something?

And add in:
1x Intuition
4x Accumulated Knowledge
2x Misdirection
4x Duress
1x Regrowth
1x Tolarian Academy
16  Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: In T1 nomenclature: OathLong? on: March 27, 2009, 07:28:16 am
Being that the deck is full of oft-useless cards, it takes any number of X turns. Usually the first Tolarian Winds or Draw7 that goes off with Force protection wins, granted you have 3-5 cards in hand with Tolarian Winds.

It would be a bell curve in turn enumeration. Oath down on the first turn behind Orchard help, which is a pretty standard drop because of usually aggressive mulls, it is turn 3 or 4 that I see the most success. Obviously, with so much mana and not a whole lot to use it on outside of a few searches and just winning, there is a higher probability of just fizzling.

A few cards I considered to help alleviate this issue: Intuition, Gifts, Regrowth (if Yawgmoth's Will happened to be in the 'yard), any number of deck shuffling cards. The issue then becomes, what is removed?
17  Eternal Formats / Creative / In T1 nomenclature: OathLong? on: March 27, 2009, 12:07:27 am
Recently I have gotten back into Magic. I did a draft with some friends and realized how much fun I used to have playing. Having said that, my first passion was always T1. And I always loved goofy cards. Enter: Tomorrow, Azami's Familiar. I searched for a way to use this card. It seems so strong. My initial list is something like this:

Mana and mana getters:
4x Forbidden Orchard
3x Flooded Strand
2x Polluted Delta
2x Underground Sea
2x Tropical Island
1x Volcanic Island
1x Forest
1x Island
1x Swamp
1x Mountain
1x Mox Jet
1x Mox Sapphire
1x Mox Ruby
1x Mox Pearl
1x Mox Emerald
1x Mana Vault
1x Grim Monolith
1x Mox Diamond
1x Black Lotus
1x Lion's Eye Diamond
1x Lotus Petal
1x Sol Ring

Search:
1x Imperial Seal
1x Vampiric Tutor
1x Mystical Tutor
1x Demonic Tutor

Win:
1x Tendrils of Agony

Broken:
1x Yawgmoth's Will
1x Windfall
1x Time Spiral
1x Timetwister
1x Wheel of Fortune
1x Ancestral Recall

Other deck manipulation:
1x Cunning Wish
1x Burning Wish
3x Tolarian Winds
1x Lat-Nam's Legacy

Other cards:
1x Crucible of Worlds
1x Fastbond
1x Hurkyl's Recall
4x Oath of Druids
4x Force of Will
2x Tomorrow, Azami's Familiar

How it Works:
The deck plays like an Oath deck the first turn or two, trying to get out an Oath with FoW protection. When that happens, simply Oath up Azami's Familiar, and start filling your hand with the best cards available. With all of the mana and mana accelerants, working just as Long would, it is very easy to sift through your whole deck and find the winning combo. Imagine, Ancestral Recall reaches nine cards deep; Time Spiral (and other Draw7s) reach 21 cards deep. Oath also helps along Yawgmoth's Will as a graveyard filler.

Odd Choices:
No Brainstorm or Ponder? I chose not to include these two because they are very weak on a turn where you are trying to go off. The other draw available allows you to sift deeper through your deck.
Burning and Cunning? Obviously, if your kill condition is removed, it is necessary to get it back. Or, if you are low on library size, it would be necessary to grab Gaea's Blessing from the sideboard. With Lat-Nam's Legacy, you can put it back in the deck and Oath into the next turn.
Tolarian Winds? This card is amazing here. After filling up your hand, sifting through cards, and still not having enough gas or the kill, two mana basically refills your hands with a chance at 21+ extra cards (if you had a full grip).

Why play this deck over something else?
To be honest, I cannot play this deck much around here. There are not many T1 tournaments (or players for that matter) in Northwest Florida. Here, all I see is budget Fish and Bazaar-less Ichorid, so my sample size is not huge.

Having said all of that, what would you--collectively, the community of Magic--suggest in fixing this list? Goldfishing returns strong results, but any deck looks good against a wall, right?
Pages: [1]
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.039 seconds with 17 queries.