Yep, that's what I was saying.  Sorry if I wasn't clearer.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but he doesn't stop vault-key.

You just have to wait until his ability triggers for the opponent, and once it's resolved you activate vault-key and get your extra turn first and repeat.  So your opponent will also get infinite turns, he'll just get them after you take all of your infinite turns!

Thanks Beralt,

Definitely a few ideas in there that I hadn't thought of.  I plan on whittling the stack down a bit, and a lot of the cards you listed are things I'm currently working towards getting my hands on.  As the T4 stack made up of far less expensive cards than my cube, I'm trying to stick exclusively to actual cards for the t4 stack.  Slowly acquiring them though, now that we've made sure it's something our group will want to regularly engage in.

We definitely enjoy spellburst though, as it doesn't get truly crazy until you're down to 2 players, and other players are usually quick to counter it or just kill the guy who has it.

Hi all,

I've been reading this forum for a few months, and have recently begun playing Type 4 in our playgroup.  I built this stack from cards that I've had lying around forever, with probably about 50$ spent on acquiring various commons and uncommons I happened not to have that seemed to feature prominently in others' lists.

Now that we've played about 6 or 7 times (with 2-4 'games' per draft), I figure it's time to start seeking out ways to improve the stack.

Usually 4-6 of us wheel draft the entire list, and play with the entire deck.  We're still playing around with this idea, but the large deck sizes make the card advantage engines incredible (and death through milling does still happen).

Our motto so far is that anything is fair game as long as it doesn't kill everyone else the moment it hits play.  That said, we're still unsure about Walking Archive.  So far it's been amazing, but not game ending (enough countermagic and instant removal seems to exist that it isn't completely bonkers)

We play with the house rules that an ability can only target a permanent once while that ability is on the stack (ie: Mistmeadow Witch can target herself, but if someone responds to that, she can't target herself again until the first instance has resolved, though she could target other things).

We also play with the rule that whenever you don't have to pay mana, it doesn't count as your spell per turn.  Also evoke doesn't count either, as we felt this added an interesting mix of bonus cards to the stack.

I know I should probably put one of my FoW, and one of my Misdirection in here, but other than that I'm looking for feedback on great cards I happen to have missed.  Any other general comments are great too.  Thanks!

Countermagic (40)
Absorb
Arcane Denial
Assert Authority
Cancel
Counterspell
Countersquall
Decree of Silence
Discombobulate
Dismiss
Disrupting Shoal Dissipate
Double Negative
Draining Whelk
Dream Fracture
Ertai’s Meddling
Exclude
Fervent Denial
Foil
Forbid
Induce Paranoia
Hinder
Hindering Light
Lapse of Certainty
Memory Lapse
Muddle the Mixture
Mystic Snake
Punish Ignorance
Rewind
Remove Soul
Soul Manipulation
Spell Blast
Spell Burst
Spelljack
Spite // Malice
Suffocating Blast
Time Stop
Traumatic Visions
Undermine
Vex
Voidmage Apprentice
Voidmage Prodigy

Misdirection Effects (7)
Deflection
Quicksilver Dragon
Reiterate
Shunt
Swerve
Wild Ricochet
Willbender

Removal (40)
Agonizing Demise
Annihilate
Blood Frenzy
Brainspoil
Chastise
Crooked Scales
Cruel Revival
Desert Twister
Diabolic Edict
Disembowel
Duplicant
Executioner’s Capsule
Expunge
Faith’s Fetters
Fissure
Oblivion Ring
Order // Chaos
Path to Exile
Phithisis
Predator, Flagship
Rend Flesh
Radiant’s Judgment
Resounding Silence
Retribution of the Meek
Second Thoughts
Sever Soul
Shriekmaw
Skinthinner
Slaughter
Sudden Death
Sword to Plowshares
Terminate
Terror
Tornado
Unmake
Violent Ultimatum
Violet Pall
Wing Shards
Wreak Havoc
Wrecking Ball

Burn (10)
Breath of Malfegor
Cerebral Vortex
Heat Ray
Resounding Thunder
Riddle of Lightning
Searing Wind
Soul’s Fire
Sudden Shock
Torrent of Fire
Urza’s Rage

Steal Stuff (18)
Binding Grasp
Blatant Thievery
Chromeshell Crab
Confiscate
Control Magic
Desertion
Dominate
Evangelize
Gather Specimens
Grab the Reins
Insurrection
Planeswalker’s Mischief
Ray of Command
Slave of Bolas
Spinal Embrace
Thieves’ Auction
Yavimaya’s Embrace
Word of Seizing

Wrath Effects (27)
Balance
Balancing act
Bane of the Living
Barter in Blood
Decree of Annihilation
Desolation Giant
Dregs of Sorrow
Dwarven Catapult
False Prophet
Forced March
Flowstone Slide
Inferno
Jiwari, the Earth Aflame
Jokulhaups
Kirtar’s Wrath
March of Souls
Mass Calcify
Obliterate
Pernicious Deed
Plaguewind
Reiver Demon
Rout
Scourglass
Slice and Dice
Soulscour
Tsabo’s Decree
Wrath of God


Anti-Artifact/Enchantment (15)
Altar’s Light
Allay
Dismantling Blow
Hull Breach
Ingot Chewer
Krosan Grip
Molder
Mystic Melting
Naturalize
Orim’s Thunder
Ray of Revelation
Shattering Pulse
Shattering Spree
Smash
Wispmare

Card Advantage (22)
Arcanis the Omnipotent
Aerial Caravan
Aven Fateshaper
Compulsion
Courier’s Capsule
Future Sight
Gifts Ungiven
Heed the Mists
Jushi Apprentice
Moonlight Bargain
Opportunity
Persuasion
Promise of Power
Pulse of the Grid
Read the Runes
Rush of Knowledge
Thought Reflection
Treasure Trove
Tower of Fortunes
Twisted Justice
Vanish into Memory
Whispers of the Muse

Reanimation (15)
Betrayal of Flesh
Cauldron Dance
Chainer, Dementia Master
Dance of the Dead
Dawn of the Dead
Miraculous Recovery
Oversold Cemetery
Puppeteer  Clique
Reaping the Graves
Reborn Hope
Reviving Vapors
Sedraxis, the Traitor King
Twilight’s Call
Vengeful Rebirth
Yawgmoth’s Agenda

Board Control (10)
Fleshformer
Flood
Flowstone Overseer
Legacy Weapon
Masticore
Mistmeadow Witch
Plaguebearer
Planeswalker’s Scorn
Smokespew Invoker
Task Mage Assembly

Defensive (9)
Combat Medic
Ivory Mask
Mourner’s Shield
Panacea
Pariah’s Shield
Pentagram of Ages
Protective Sphere
Shield of the Ages
Sword Dancer

Lifegain (5)
Chant of Vhitu-Ghazi
Invincible Hymn
Mirror Strike
Reverse Damage
Tower of Eons

Fatties (54)
Akroma, Angel of Wrath
Arcades Sabboth
Angel of Despair
Autochthon Wurm
Avatar of Woe
Bloodfire Colossus
Bosh, Iron Golem
Bringer of the Black Dawn
Bringer of the Green Dawn
Bringer of the Red Dawn
Broodmate Dragon
Carrion Thrash
Cognivore
Colossus of Sardia
Crush of Wurms
Dragon Broodmother
Empyrial Archangel
Firemane Angel
Fungal Shambler
Gigapede
Godsire
Grozoth
Hostility
Hunting Pack
Hypnox
Imperial Hellkite
Intet, the Dreamer
Iridescent Angel
Jareth, Leonine Titan
Kaerek the Merciless
Kamahl, Pit Fighter
Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund
Krosan Cloudscraper
Krosan Colossus
Lord of Extinction
Maelstrom Archangel
Magister Sphinx
Mortivore
Multani, Maro-Sorcerer
Myojin of Seeing Winds
Nicol Bolas
Phage the Untouchable
Plated Slagwurm
Prince of Thralls
Rockshard Elemental
Silvos, Rogue Elemental
Sisters of the Stone Death
Spearbreaker Behemoth
Spellbreaker Behemoth
Spirit Monger
Symbiotic Wurm
Vein Drinker
Vigor
Xanthic Statue

Utility Creatures (19)
Armoured Guardian
Cabal Interrogator
Cho-Manno, Revolutionary
Crowd Favourites
Dauntless Escort
Ethersworn Adjudicator
Genesis
Glarecaster
Glory
Grixis Sojourners
Magus of the Abyss
Mayael the Anima
Rakka Mar
Root Elemental
Scrivener
Sen Triplets
Sunscape Battlemage
Thicket Elemental
Withered Wretch

Utility Artifacts (14)
Aladdin’s Ring
Door to Nothingness
Grinning Totem
Icy Manipulator
Lich’s Mirror
Mirari
Null Brooch
Quicksilver Amulet
Reito Lantern
Relic of Progenitus
Ring of Gix
Rings of Brighthearth
Vedalken Orrey
Walking Archive

Utility Enchantments (8)
Gratuitous Violence
Holistic Wisdom
Knollspine Invocation
Maelstrom Nexus
Necrogenesis
Night Soil
Wild Research
Wound Reflection

Utility Spells (19)
Backlash
Bant Charm
Captain’s Maneuver
Crosis’s Charm
Cruel Ultimatum
Darigaaz’s Charm
Decree of Savagery
Dromar’s Charm
Esper Charm
Grixis Charm
Jund Charm
Knowledge Exploitation
Mirrorweave
Naya charm
Reflect Damage
Resounding Roar
Resounding Scream
Soulblast
Time Stretch

Tutors (13)
Aladdin’s Lamp
Citanul Flute
Descendant of Soramaro
Diabolic Tutor
Eladamri’s Call
Flash of Insight
Mystical Tutor
Mystical Teachings
Planar Portal
Riptide Shapeshifter
Soothsaying
Wargate

Bounce (8)
Aethersnipe
Capsize
Evacuation
Kederekt Leviathan
Resounding Wave
Temporal Adept
Upheaval
Wipe Away

Lands  (6)
Boseiju, Who Shelters All
Hall of the Bandit Lord
Kor Haven
Urza’s Factory
Wasteland
Winding Canyons