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Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: Amount of Games Required For an Effective Testing Experience
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on: July 30, 2015, 06:27:08 pm
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on a related note, I'm pretty confident that 7-10 games is enough to get an idea of how a particular matchup goes, and whether or not it's in my favor. After 7-10 games I can usually tell what cards are important in the matchup and what I want to side out and in; or possibly make changes to the sideboard. Of course, if those are significant changes, it takes another 7-10 games to decide how *those* impact the matchcup.
As Smmenen says above, there's no such thing as a matchup percentage because skill matters so much. But even taking your skill and the skill of your opponent as a constant, unless a matchup is very lopsided 10 games isn't enough to tell who is favored based on the results alone. For example, if you win 6 of 10 games, the 95% confidence interval for your win percentage is 31% to 83% (for stats nerds, this is using the Wilson method: http://vassarstats.net/prop1.html). If you win 8 of 10 games the 95% confidence interval is (49% to 94%). This ignores sideboarded and unsideboarded games being different, which increases the number of games needed. To get a sense of which deck is favored from a small number of games, you need a lot of intuition or knowledge separate from the actual results.
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Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: Ral Zarek
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on: April 12, 2013, 03:34:20 pm
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By using sensei's top, jace, brainstorm, preordain, ponder, and any other deck manipulators that statement is not necessarily true. Drawing a card is no longer a random event after playing such cards and so the primary assumption that basic probability uses fails.
But if you're using those cards, your *weakest* cards are probably trapped at the top of your library, all the more reason to use the +1.
[on Tezz 2] Exactly. Of the cards listed, only using Ponder to bottom cards (or Fatesealing yourself with Jace) makes the *stronger* non-artifact cards more likely to be at the top of your library. The others all make the *weaker* cards more likely to be at the top of your library and provide more reason to use the +1.
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4
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Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: Ral Zarek
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on: April 09, 2013, 01:57:37 pm
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When I'm playing Tezz 2 I'm using his -1 as often as possible and smashing with 5/5 hasties. If that's not interacting I don't know what is. Of course without a high artifact count its impossible to do this. His +1 should be used scarcely as it can dig away your strongest cards.
This is not a drawback of Tezz 2's +1 ability. In general, you're just as likely to move your weaker (non-artifact) cards to the bottom of your library as your stronger cards. Your stronger cards aren't any more likely to be in the top 5 cards than at any other place in your library, so this ability has no effect on the "strength" of your library's top 5 cards, for example (assuming you had 10 or more cards left to start with!).
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5
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Vintage Community Discussion / General Community Discussion / Re: [YMTCIV] Enchantment Type
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on: April 09, 2013, 01:34:06 pm
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Evil Wild Growth Enchantment- Aura Enchant land Whenever enchanted land is tapped for mana, its controller adds  to his or her mana pool (in addition to the mana the land produces) and loses 1 life. But this seems way underpowered for a YMTC card. I want something that will make my non-black opponent's FEEL. . . THE. . . PAIN !!! Adding "Sacrifice ~: add  to your mana pool" would make it a bit more interesting. Envy fulfilled  Enchantment Pay 1 life: Draw a card. Use this ability as a sorcery, and only if an opponent has more cards in hand than you. A capped Necropotence/bargain. Being a sorcery effect, cannot be stacked to oblivion. I highly doubt they'd print anything this strong.
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6
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Vintage Community Discussion / General Community Discussion / Re: [YMTCIV] Enchantment Type
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on: April 09, 2013, 02:13:24 am
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Evil Wild Growth Enchantment- Aura Enchant land Whenever enchanted land is tapped for mana, its controller adds  to his or her mana pool (in addition to the mana the land produces) and loses 1 life. It has some limited offensive use compared to Wild Growth. Just tossing this out there as an Aura example that isn't the usual black reanimation/discard/simple creature buff or debuff.
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7
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Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: The early game with blue decks, play or draw?
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on: February 22, 2013, 05:35:21 pm
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Alright so A-1 inspired me to look into my catalog of life sheets from the tournaments I've played in dating back to March 2011. Since that point, I played 219 tournament games all with Workshop decks. My game results were:
Overall: 126 wins - 93 losses (57% win%) On the play: 63 wins - 38 losses (62% win%) On the draw: 63 wins - 55 losses (53% win%)
I took this one further because I was interested in how the die roll influenced my match win%. I constructed decision trees and found that assuming my game win% is the same in games 1, 2 and 3 then if I won the die roll I won 63.41% of my matches whereas I won 58.97% of my matches when I lost the die roll. Assuming I did my math right and my assumption on game 1 having the same percentages as 2 and 3, then the die roll was only worth 4.43% in determining if I won a match. Interpret this however you want, but I think this shows that the die roll is not quite as important as has been previously stated.
What you've calculated is a measure importance of winning the coin flip to winning the match (based on your assumptions, the calculation is correct. I go through more details here: http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=25791.0). Setting aside issues of mixing sideboarded and unsideboarded games, these game results would seem to indicate pretty clearly that you win a higher percentage of games on the play than on the draw. But if you test statistically whether the win percentages in the games on the play are different than the games on the draw, you can't say these percentages of games won on the play versus on the draw are different with a high degree of confidence (the p-value is about 0.18). That is, even if the win percentage on the play equaled the win percentage on the draw, when you played this many games you'd see an average win percentage at least as different as what you observed here 18% of the time.
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8
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Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: The early game with blue decks, play or draw?
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on: February 22, 2013, 01:20:28 pm
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Maybe there needs to be a special Mythbuster's episode on the subject.
I can see logic being applied on both sides and the need for statistics to actually settle the debate. What would be interesting is pitting two decks and playing each game out in both scenarios where the card sequencing in each case is fixed and doing this a number of times (so two-fisted testing against oneself where you carefully repeat the exercise and stack the deck in the same order).
It would be extremely hard to "play the same game twice" in any reasonable way and there's also no need to do so to get at this question. You can simply alternate which deck goes first, play each to the best of your ability, and see the fraction of games won by the deck going first (unsideboarded for simplicity). The trouble is that unless the effect (amount by which going first is better than going second, or vice versa) is quite large, say 20 percentage points, you won't reasonably be able to test enough games to learn anything with a high degree of statistical confidence. And even if you do, that's only one matchup. Even completely obvious conclusions, such as that replacing Vampiric Tutor with Imperial Seal would make a deck worse, can't reliably be confirmed without lots and lots of statistical evidence that you are unlikely to have. To quote a discussion along these lines. That's what makes it a good example. It's obvious that Vampiric is hugely better and we all know why. But, the difference in win percentage for the whole deck depending on Tutor vs. Seal will be very close. If it's within a percentage point (almost certain), then it will take a few hundred games for that to show up numerically. I'd welcome a better metric.
Your example is being overly kind to the "win percentage" metric. Imagine that you play some set number of games to compare the two decks. One logical question is: How many games do I have to play such that the deck with Vampiric Tutor (which I know is the better deck) has a higher win percentage at the end of these games than the deck with Imperial Seal 95% of the time. The answer to this obviously depends on how much Vampiric Tutor improves the deck's win percentage. If Vampiric Tutor improves the deck's win percentage by 1 percentage point in each game (e.g., with Vampiric Tutor the deck wins 51% of the time; without it, it wins 50% of the time), then it will take thousands of games (using the Central Limit Theorem, my estimate is around 13000 games) for this difference to show up 95% of the time. If Vampiric Tutor improves the deck's win percentage by 5% in each game (what you might think is a very noticeable difference), then it still takes around 500 games for the difference to show up 95% of the time. So in short, you shouldn't place great trust in playtesting results because of statistical margin of error. See my related post: http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=20129.msg323388#msg323388
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Eternal Formats / Eternal Article Discussion / Re: [Free Article] Grixis on the Draw Vs. Mud
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on: December 01, 2012, 01:52:33 am
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This article didn't quite articulate why knowing how to win a post-sideboard game on the draw can be so important in some matchups. If you are a serious underdog in game 1, you are very likely to lose game 1 and need to win a post-sideboarded game on the draw to win the match. By comparison, if you are highly favored in game 1, you are very likely to win game 1 and only to need to win a post-sideboarded game on the play to win the match. For game 1, improving your chance to win by 5 percentage points on the draw and 5 percentage points on the play has the same effect on your chance to win the match as improving your chance to win game 1 by 10 percentage points on the draw and 0 percentage points on the play, or vice versa. The same is not true in general of post-sideboarded games. Improving your chance to win an on-the-draw post-sideboarded game by 10 percentage points could be worth more, less, or the same in terms of your chance to win the match as improving your chance to win an on-the-play post-sideboarded game by 10 percentage points, depending on the particulars of the matchup. This chain of reasoning is subtle, and historically I haven't been that good at explaining it without resorting to hard to follow mathematics. If your G1 percentage is good, you win more matches when you have skewed postboard odds (of winning based on being on the play/draw) than with even ones, even given the same average of (your chance to win on the play post-sideboard and your chance to win on the draw post-sideboard).
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Eternal Formats / Eternal Article Discussion / Re: [Free Article] Vintage Avant-Garde – Avacyn Restored For Vintage
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on: May 03, 2012, 05:26:39 pm
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Oath has a number of cards in the deck that are inherently bad topdecks. Drawing Dragon's Breath is pretty miserable, as it's completely useless in your hand. Not completely useless, you can cast it on Blightsteel Colossus (likely after Oathing it). Sure, but would you rather have that or a Preordain/Mental Misstep/other card 9/10 times? Clearly Dragon Breath is on average much worse to draw than the cards that would replace it in your deck. But my point was just that it has some use if stuck in your hand.
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Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: Misthollow Griffin
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on: April 19, 2012, 03:38:33 pm
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well foresight is great with this it exiles 3 of them and then replaces itself. or it can get rid of dead cards in your library, although that isn't really that relevant. The other card that works well with this is demonic consultation and/or divining witch, which can go get your food chain while also hopefully exiling your griffin on the way
Manipulate Fate is superior to Foresight in that it gives you a card right away. Sorcery, 1U: Search your library for three cards, exile them, then shuffle your library. Draw a card.
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Eternal Formats / Eternal Article Discussion / Re: [Free Article] The Guide To Vintage’s Landscape – All Things That Gush
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on: December 06, 2011, 12:58:45 am
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Very nice article. Re: proxies, high-quality proxies are clearly desired but are quite constrained by WotC's legal actions. ELD even had to stop giving away his proxies as door prizes, for example. I'm sure others know more details.
Good instructions on creating high quality proxies may help. However, even if you make instructions were easily accessible, most people wouldn't find it worth the effort if they're only going to make 10-15. The "printing out slips of paper" solution works great among friends but not for tournament play.
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Eternal Formats / Blue-Based Control / Re: Rainbow Demon--a new ICBM Oath Variant
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on: December 01, 2011, 07:40:39 pm
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I'm working on rebuilding the SB to address that, actually. What I'm thinking right now is something like: 4 Leyline 3 Yixlid 3 Nature's Claim 1 Pithing Needle 1 Hurkyl's Recall 3 Extirpate
How would you sideboard against another Oath deck (and how it would differ by Oath variants, if applicable)?
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Eternal Formats / Blue-Based Control / Re: Rainbow Demon--a new ICBM Oath Variant
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on: November 27, 2011, 10:36:54 pm
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Here's the basic kill:
First Oath trigger: Trigger Oath, hit Demon, find Time Walk, draw your card for the turn, play a land if you have one, play Time Walk.
Second Oath Trigger: Trigger Oath again, hit another Demon. If you have hit Blessing, then stack the Demon first, then the Blessing. Blessing trigger resolves, you search, then find Walk and play it. If you don't hit Blessing, you can search for Yawgmoth's Will and replay Walk if you have the mana in your yard, which you probably do. Otherwise you might be able to set up Yawgmoth's Will for Key/Vault if those are in your yard, or if you have a lethal Will. If you mill Will but not Blessing, you can just find a Mana Drain or other hard counter and pass the turn, but generally you will be able to recycle Time Walk consistently enough that once you trigger Oath you have basically won. It's pretty rare that your opponent will get a turn. Gaea's Blessing is absolutely amazing in this deck, because it allows you to loop Time Walk repeatedly. Anyway, swing for 6, Time Walk again.
Third Oath Trigger: Hit Blessing again, find Walk, swing for 12, play Walk, win Quick math related to the bolded sentence: if you start with Time Walk in graveyard and Will, Blessing, and 2 Demons in your deck (in random order- doesn't matter what other cards are there as long as none are creatures), there's a 1/6 chance that you mill Will but not Blessing. Unless Will is the first card (of these four), milling Will but not Blessing can't occur. If Will is the first card, then this occurs if one of the Demons is second, which conditional on Will being first happens 2/3 of the time. So 2/3 * 1/4= 1/6. Sound correct?
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Vintage Community Discussion / General Community Discussion / Re: Objectively analyzing the value of mill in high variance formats (draft/sealed)
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on: November 15, 2011, 01:17:27 pm
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The value of milling an opponent (or the harm of milling yourself) can be seen in the following hypothetical situation.
The board is at a stalemate. Either player who attempts to break it will lose. However, your opponent has a bomb that will win the game the turn she draws it. You have more cards in your library; thus, you have an inevitable victory without needing to mill the opponent, were the bomb not present in her deck.
If you successfully mill the bomb, you will win. Otherwise, you will lose. Flip this scenario and you can see when milling yourself could be harmful.
That isn't to say this situation, or something resembling it, comes up in actual Innistrad drafting. But the strategy could hold water. I just stated some conditions where milling for bombs does matter. Under what conditions does milling bombs not matter? Assuming the opponent's deck has no tutors (which would increase the value of milling for bombs), if you can't mill enough cards over the course of the game that the opponent is at risk of running out of cards, milling won't have any value. That is, if the game is certain to end before the opponent would run out of cards in library (I'm abstracting away from the fact that your opponent's strategy might change when you mill them), all the milling you do has no value. The reasoning: without loss of generality, milled cards in this example could come off the bottom of the deck (since each ordering is equally likely). When the conditions in the previous paragraph are met, milling is just removing cards that would never be accessed anyway.
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Vintage Community Discussion / General Community Discussion / Re: Objectively analyzing the value of mill in high variance formats (draft/sealed)
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on: November 14, 2011, 11:05:26 pm
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The value of milling an opponent (or the harm of milling yourself) can be seen in the following hypothetical situation.
The board is at a stalemate. Either player who attempts to break it will lose. However, your opponent has a bomb that will win the game the turn she draws it. You have more cards in your library; thus, you have an inevitable victory without needing to mill the opponent, were the bomb not present in her deck.
If you successfully mill the bomb, you will win. Otherwise, you will lose. Flip this scenario and you can see when milling yourself could be harmful.
That isn't to say this situation, or something resembling it, comes up in actual Innistrad drafting. But the strategy could hold water.
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Eternal Formats / Global Vintage Tournament Reports and Results / Re: 11-5-11 Full of Win Vintage Game Day #1 Metagame Breakdown and Results
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on: November 05, 2011, 11:24:31 pm
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In the end of the day , John Jones took down the event with Season’s Beatings!
1st Place John Jones – “RG BEATZ” 1 Berserk 4 Magus of the Moon 4 Tarmogoyf 3 Phyrexian Metamorph 3 Lightning Bolt 1 Rack and Ruin 2 Smash to Smithereens 3 Stingscourger 3 Red Elemental Blast 3 Tinstreet Hooligan 4 Elvish Spirit Guide 4 Simian Spirit Guide 1 Artifact Mutation 4 Null Rod 1 Mox Ruby 1 Mox Emerald 1 Black Lotus 1 Mox Emerald 1 Black Lotus 2 Forest 2 Mountain 1 Strip Mine 4 Wasteland 4 Taiga 4 Wooded Foothillls
Sideboard: 4 Ravenous Trap 2 Relic of Progenitus 2 Dismember 1 Red Elemental Blast 2 Pyroblast 1 Lightning Bolt 1 Rack and Ruin 1 Shattering Spree 1 Nature’s Claim
And Congrats to John Jones , Full of Win Vintage Game Day #1 Champion!
John Jones came up with quite the innovation, playing 2 Black Lotuses and 2 Mox Emeralds.
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Eternal Formats / Eternal Article Discussion / Re: [Premium Article] So Many Insane Plays -- The New Phyrexia Set Review & Checklis
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on: June 17, 2011, 01:42:46 am
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Could you elaborate a little bit more on this point? I would think that if a 60-card deck with an extra Ponder/Preordain is more optimal than a 59-card deck without, the same would hold true for 61 and 60. There is a tipping point where the decrease in variance due to card filtering no longer exceeds the increase in variance due to having a larger library -- but I have no reason to believe (and if it's true it would be a remarkable coincidence) that that magic number sits exactly at 60. Having not read this article, I'd say that if adding an extra Ponder/Preordain to a 59 card deck while turning into a 60 card deck improves it, the correct thing to do is to add that Ponder/Preordain in the place of a different card, so your deck remains 59 cards. Similarly, if your 60 card deck can be improved by making it 61 with an extra Ponder/Preordain, it can be improved more by removing another card at the same time. Tutors and the ability to fit in specialized bullets is about the only reason I can think of why this might not hold (no deck will have enough cantrips that exact mana ratios are that important), but that seems implausible.
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Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: [Comm] Chaos Warp
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on: June 13, 2011, 05:22:46 pm
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Beast Within. I was surprised to see that the only other tournament legal instant land removal spell in the game is Rain of Rust.
Fissure is another tournament legal instant land removal spell. And Lavaball Trap, Rith's Charm (nonbasic only), and Wrecking Ball.
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Eternal Formats / Global Vintage Tournament Reports and Results / Re: Durham NC - March 26th - Sci-Fi Genre Comics & Games
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on: March 29, 2011, 05:09:03 pm
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1st place - Eric Brown
Creatures 3 Phyrexian Revoker 4 Metalworker 4 Lodestone Golem 1 Karn, Silver Golem 2 Kuldoltha Forgemaster 1 Triskelion 1 Duplicant 3 Steel Hellkite 1 Myr Battlesphere
Artifacts 4 Chalice of the Void 1 Crucible of Worlds 4 Sphere of Resistance 4 Thorn of Amethyst 4 Tangle Wire 1 Trinisphere 1 Black Lotus 1 Mox Ruby 1 Mox Sapphire 1 Mox Jet 1 Mox Emerald 1 Mox Pearl 1 Mana Crypt 1 Sol Ring
Lands 4 Mishra's Workshop 1 Strip Mine 2 City of Traitors 1 Tolarian Academy 2 Ghost Quarter 4 Wasteland This list has 0 Ancient Tombs but has 60 cards anyway. I'd guess there was a mistake somewhere.
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