Would anyone be interested in making a group pilgrimage from eastern MA to make it to this event?  Think about it.  If 4 people go together, divide the gas/tolls by four.  Divide the shitty hotel room costs by 4.  Four people to pay for pizza.

I myself live near Salem, MA, where the type 1 scene is rather dismal.  There are few places to play, and the few tournaments that do occur aren't worth the entry fee.  I'd like to make it down to the TMD champs.  I don't have wheels, but I have cash.

Does anybody want to car pool?

Today on starcitygames, the CHA1N5 guy asks what the role of Voidmage Prodigy is in fish.  I don't see him fitting well into the maindeck of WTF/r, but do you think one or two would be a good inclusion in the sideboard?  If so, what matchups could this benefit?  Does this deck honestly need any more counters than it already has?

According to the thread, they have über-synergy with lavamancers, and they work with firewalkers, too.

I myself have never played with the card before.  I just traded for a few last week, just to give them a whirl.
 
Has anybody tried it (at least in SB)?

austinnadz:
VS. Reanimaor
This is why you have Mazes and buounce in the sideboard, to deal with fat stupid creatures bigger than yours.  Sigil of sleep + Lavamancer = you win.

You could also run unsummon, if you fear dragon decks.  It will wreck them more than tormod's crypt, because you can use the stack against them.

I sees where you're coming from and I likes what I sees, and I can agree to some extent.  But, do you really need to lean on a 3rd or 4th daze if you already have 4 spiketails maindecked?  That's pretty much like playing 11-12 counterspells, which could be too much.  With 5 strip effects, a crucible to recur the strip effects, 3 Null rods, a stifle or two, an oxidize or two, 4 hard counters, and 6 soft counters, I'd say that's a pleantiful amount of disruption (a total of at least 20-23 cards).

If you were going to include more than 2 dazes, i'd say put one in the sideboard, so you can side it in against a deck where the null rods don't do anything.


dunedan:
Perhaps you can cut one maindeck stifle entirely, and move an oxidize to the board somewhere to fit in the dazes.  Stifle can be pretty conditional, and since this deck draws sooo many cards, if you really need to see more than one, you can board in your second.  You can probably cut the 4th null rod from the side to fit the oxidze in there.  Or, if you're scared to do that, cut a fire/ice.

As for the mox problem, keep your two islands...they're important.  I'd drop down to 5 fetches.  Especially if CoW is intended to stay in the maindeck.

I intend to make some more changes to my decklist, and try out a few new things (new for me, anyway) at a tourney this saturday.  If things work out, i'll give everybody the low-down.

dunedan:
Post your decklist, and let's see what you have.

I feel that 2 Daze is the right number for this variant of fish.  3 or 4 is too much, because it's not a card you want to draw into in the mid/late game, unless your opponent is dumb enough to tap out on you...but that rarely happens if that person has played against a lot of fish.

I really think CoW seems to be the ultimate "pre-hyped-sleeper-bomb," in that, when it was first created, people thought it was going to be the best thing ever. Then they tried to build decks around it that were flawed and failed miserably.  Then it resurfaced in a sideboard here and there, and now I think that it (as in just 1) has a solid place in at LEAST this deck.

Then again, I still haven't tried the Dumbo token thing yet...

FreeZRManX:

1a) Hell yeah.  Damage is not a problem with this deck.  I raced GOBLINS for milf's sake.  It was slightly janky goblins (shocks instead of bolts), but goblins none-the-less.

1b) I haven't gotten to play with the crucible that much...it is just something i'm trying out for a while.  I don't own any COtH, so running them means I have to find them.  Either or, they're both card advantage machines with great synergy with the deck.  I'd say either one would be fine, depending on what you're playing against.  Against my first opponent, they were used pretty defensively, which is fine...they did a lot better than calls whould have in that situation, i think.

Had I drawn one against my second opponent, the games would have been much shorter than 5 minutes.  The only reason why they lasted that long is because the crazy bastard was running QUICKSAND!  Visions TECH.  So I had to wait for wastelands in order to attack with boas or factories.

2) I haven't tested both.  I did end up running one brainstorm, because  of the whole "no proxy, no own card" thing.  I cast it once.  And it worked just like brainstorm works.  I like standstill because the opponent always gets pissed when one hits the table.  Besides netting you cards 99% of the time, it has a cool psychological effect on the opponent...something that brainstorm lacks.

"End of Turn: Brainstorm"
"whatever"

"STANDSTILL!"
"You're an ass!"

Anyway, besides that, I can see what you're saying about the 2cc cloggyness.  It might have made the deck seem awkward here and there, now that I think back on it. "Do I cast this, or do i cast standstill -- when i have 3 lands."  Iunno.  I think it's okay.  Much like anything else, it depends on your current game state situation.

#3 Why the Firewalker?
Well, I sadly, have no Lavamancer #4.  You know what...i don't miss having one either.  The firewalker seems to fit just fine.  It pitches to force, or misdirection (should you choose to run it).  It smoothes out the 2cc blob thing a little bit.  The pseudo-protection from red ability is nice, too.  It can't  be fire/iced, or bolted, or sharpshootered, or lavamancered.  The casting cost may appear to be blah, but upon playing with it, i think it's just swell.

I played this version in a small (12 person) no proxy tourney this past weekend, and split the meager 1st/2nd place prize with some kid...but that's besides the point.

4 River Boa
4 Spike Tail Hatchling
3 Grim Lavamancer
1 Suq Ata Firewalker
1 Gorilla Shaman

3 Null Rod
4 Mishra's Factories

4 Force of Will
4 Standstill
2 Daze
2 Stifle
4 Curiostiy
1 Fire/Ice (replacing proxied timewalk)
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Brainstorm (replacing proxied ancestral)

1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Ruby
4 Tropical Island
4 Volcanic Island
1 Island (replacing proxied sapphire)
5 Islandy Fetchlands
1 Stripmine
4 Wasteland

SB:
3 REB
2 BEB
3 Sigil of Sleep
2 Artifact Mutation
2 Oxidize
2 Energy Flux
1 Suq Ata Firewalker

There were only 4 rounds, and I didn't even play the last game, because we split, but I'd like to point out some strengths of a few minor inclusions.

1: Blue Elemental Blast.  This is was a saving grace for me, be it for blood moon, or a stupid horde of goblins.  They were OKAY against the goblin match, countering a Sulfuric vortex, or a Goblin Piledriver that would have beat my ass.  Round 3 I played against a stax variant, which ran Blood Moon in the SB.  Without these, I wouldn't have any game.  In fact, it was rather convenient that I had to unproxy a the Sapphire for an island.  Without it I would not have been able to cast this upon drawing it.

2: Crucible of Worlds.  This is a house.  Absolute house.  It kept me alive fighting goblins, due to recursion of factories.  It slowed them down enough for me to stablize and come back with boa hottness.  The re-occuring strip was also key to winning a game, being able to strip 4 mountains, at least.

3: Suq Ata Firewalker.  Killed welders a few times, and also put unkillable pressure on the goblin crew.  Makes sharpshooter look like a pussy(cat).
It was kind of ammusing playing this, because nobody else there had seen one before.

Anyway, I think these are worth considering.  I wanted to try out rancors, but I felt that since I had ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA what the meta was going to be like, it would be safer to run oxidize in the side.  Oxidize is useless against scrubby little kids, by the way.

Here's a breif report.

Round 1 - Goblins:

Game One
Everybody plays a bunch of spells.  He's got shocks, instead of lightning bolt....um....yeah.  But they killed lots of lavamancers and spiketails.
This was the average fish game.  The only thing that made it exciting was that he dropped a sulfuric vortex, and i had to race that.  I was able to kill him on his upkeep, while i was at 1 life.  Crucible was integral in this game, because I could chump all of his creatures with factories.

Game Two
Same as the first.  Average fish game.  Except he was playing mad skull clamps and drew mad cards.  I drew mad lands off standstills, instead of counters.  He beat me to a pulp, but i was able to stabalize.  Until he brought in Rhorix Bladewing.  Ouch.  My reply to dying to that was WTF.

Game Three
Same as other two.  Except he draws mad lands off skull clamp.  Ha.
Sigil of Sleep was awesome in these games, because he had to keep replaying his stupid warcheif over and over, until i eventually countered it.


Round 2: Magma Mine Combo with Lions Eye Diamond and the New White Card.

Game One
Counters + Null Rod = Win.

Game Two
Null Rod = Win.

Round 3:  Slaver/Stax Variant

This was the hardest matchup, i'd say, because up until this point I had never won against a workshop deck.  I wish I had taken notes, because these were some good games.

Game One
He gets a welder in play and a manacrypt.  I answered these with a null rod.  He eventually gets a Karn into play, because i was stupid and let him resolve the manacrypt. He discarded Karn at the end of his turn and welded it in.  Luckily, I was able to get Wall of Factories up and running, so i stopped his busted iron beast.  If I remember correctly, which i might not, he might have scooped this game shortly after null rod was on the table.

Game Two
This was nuts.  I force of will a 1st or 2nd turn blood moon, which makes him gasp.  Two turns later, he plays one out, which I have no answer to.
A turn later, he wheel of fortunes, to my fortune, and his misfortune.  I drew a BEB and that lone Island, which would not have been in my deck had this been a proxy tournament.  I BEB'd the moon.  Unfortunately for him, he drew 6 lands and a grim monolith off the wheel.  Ouch.
He was soon finished by 3 lavamancers, a couple of factories, and a curiously strong spiketail.

So that was it.  I got 25 bucks store credit.  Woo hoo.  I'd get my ass handed to me at a real tourney, probably.  I wend 3-3 with a madness deck at the first Myriad Games tourney.  Everybody else was playing fish and landstill.

Anyway, to sum things up.  This deck is swell.  Better than new socks and PB&J.

Does anyone from Eastern Mass plan on attending this event?
Does anybody want to car pool?

(I apologize to the forum mods...i don't have access to post this in the tournament forum)

**UPDATE**


Okay, since nobody replied to this, maybe if i propose something.

I may be able to get a car to drive some punks up there.

DOES ANYBODY WANT TO CAR POOL?

Um....no.

Instead of dicking around with useless cards (Hunting Pack/Words of Worship), why don't you cut them for Tendrils/Another Brain Freeze.  Like, maindeck, so you can draw into one of them instead of relying on wasting 3 mana and a card to dig them out of your sideboard.

Perhaps i'm not following this at all, or i need better reading glasses.  What's the maindeck kill card in this deck?  Academy Rector?  To fetch Bargain and Words of Worship?  Which makes you win how?

wow...i feel really dumb.....

oh wait...i am dumb.......

I was wondering if this had the possiblility of working:

4 Cloud of Faeries
4 Spiketail Hatchling
3 Grim Lavamancer
4 Quirion Dryad
1 Gorilla Shaman

3 Daze
2 Misdirection
2 Stifle
4 Force of Will


1 Ancestral
1 Time Walk
1 Gush

3 Standstill
3 Curiosity

3 Wasteland
1 Strip

1 Black Lotus
1 Ruby
1 Sapphire
1 Emerald
5 Island Fetch
3 Tropical
3 Volcanic
5 Island

It's your standard, run of the mill fish deck, with a splash of green for dryads.  I've played against several fish decks, and they tend to draw crazy amounts of cards with curiosity and standstill...good for fueling dryads.

3 Daze
2 Misdirection
2 Stifle
4 Cloud of Faeries

Free spells fuel dryads.

However, this deck is not meant to create 12/12 creatures by the 5th turn.  Rather, supply some early beef to speed up the fish clock.

I think of this scenario:

Turn one:  Mox, Tropical, Dryad, go.
Opponent does something: Force of Will, 2/2 Dryad.

Turn Two:  Land, Cloud of faries, Spiketail hatchling, Standstill, 5/5 Dryad, Swing.

From there, you should be able to kill your opponent rather efficiently, with a huge dryad hiding under a standstill, with spiketail counter backup.

So that's the idea.  You may now proceed throw your rotten tomatos and profanity at this post.

I live 40 minutes away from myriad....if that's what you mean by "in the area."

Instead of the classic stompy elements, perhaps you can try something with man lands and Nether Spirit.  Both will have good synergy with the deeds.  I'm not so sure about call of the heard in this deck either, being that you loose the tokens every time you pop a deed.  They might be better as river boas.  Since you have a heavy amount of black, you might want to consider Necropotence as well.


(This is obviously a casual deck)
4 Nether Spirit
4 Mishra's Factory
3 Treetop Village
4 Call of the Heard (RIVER BOAS OR SOMETHING BETTER!)
-----------------------------
15


4 Lightning Bolt
4 Duress
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Demonic Consultation
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Mind Twist
4 Pernicious Deed
1 Regrowth
1 Vampiric Tutor
----------------------------
16


3 Taiga
3 Bayou
3 Badlands
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Forest
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Ruby
1 Black Lotus
1 Sol Ring
1 Strip Mine
4 Wasteland
3 Dark Ritual
----------------------------------
27

Stick some Null Rods and some naturalizes in that sideboard!  They kick too much ass to not use. (Emerald Charm is sooooo 1997, or 98...i can't remember...)

By "Sonic Blast," Did you mean Psionic Blast, or Sonic Burst?
I'd pick the former before the latter, If I were you.  You could also run lightning bolts in that slot, since just about every deck will find a way to do at least one damage to itself (usually via fetch land).

You might want to try running another cunning wish, or two.  This way you can use it to fetch additional counters in the sideboard.  You could stand to have a more wishable board, too.  Something like this:

2 Blue Elemental Blasts
1 Fire/Ice
1 Erratic Explosion
3 Rack 'n Ruin
3 Red Elemental Blasts
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Lightning Bolt
1 Counter Spell
2 Propaganda


And i'd try to find a way to run Force of Will maindeck.  It just makes too much of a difference in most games, especially against something like a first turn trinishphere, or tangle wire.

I also haven't seen a blue deck not run mana drain.  It's the second most important counterspell in the format, and will give you enough tempo to get the combo going faster.

Also, shit-can the shivan reefs for more moxes/basic land.  This  will make your draws better, and your fetches more effective against people smart enough to run Blood Moons, Back to basics, or Wastelands.

Since you've got scroll racks in there, you might want to consider doing something absolutely silly, like running a Goblin Charbelcher or two.  Ha...picture that with a Mana Serveyance to wish out of the Side Board, just as an alternative, super-sneaky combo...just when they think a dragon is going to blow up in their face...

I have half of the power (pearl, ruby, emerald, timetwister), 37 duals, and the intuitions.  And I have a half decent job (graphic design...if you read my introduce yourself post).  I do lack the mana drains, but most tourneys are 5 proxy anyway, so IMO i'd proxy those and an ancestral or something.  I will eventually buy a berzerk...i just wanted a temporary solution to the problem, so I can play a few games here and there without any proxies.





Sorry for sounding like such a bitch, but damn, this is a simple discussion.
No need for the sarcasm.

I think that the "blocked by man-land" scenario is pretty conditional though.  I guess my  solution to that would be (besides eventually splurging for a berserk) to pack both ensnare and shadow-rift in the sideboard, permitted that i have room.  That all depends on the metagame, though, which at this point I have no real input on.  I've only played a couple of people in the last few months, and every one of them was playing a damned workshop deck (smokestack, how I loathe thee).

Currently my sideboard looks like this:

3 Red Elemental Blast
2 Blue Elemental Blast
2 Coffin Purge
1 Rack n' ruin
1 Aether Mutation
1 Naturalize
1 Oxidize
1 Smother
1 Lim Dul'z vault
1 Fact or Fiction
---------------------------
1 Shadow Rift/Ensnare

If I was going to drop anything, it would either be Fact or fiction or smother.  The smother's in there for a tog mirror, but REB would take care of that anyway, and Fact or fiction is usually hard to cast off a wish, and even then, it's usually countered.

Good idea's kids.

By the way, JP, just wanted to tell you that you're the shit.  I've read all of your stuff on starcity.  If i was to have a MTG hero, you'd be it.  And ICT is awesome.

Just an open question for anybody to answer or make fun of:

I don't own a berserk, what's the best replacement for one (for Tog, or course)?  And i'm poor, so buying one is highly unlikely.

My only thought so far:

Brain Freeze - the idea being you cast a few spells, then wish for this, playing it on yourself to pack your graveyard.

Think.

Hi I'm Bill and I live in Danvers, MA (north of Boston).
I'm 22, and I'm a graphic designer.  I skateboard sometimes, watch wrestling, and occasionally make stupid movies with my friends (see www.lucascuster.com if you're interested in the gory details).

I've been playing Magic on and off since Revised came out (since about '95, guess).  I have a lot of the "older" cards, so I'm interested in getting involved with the Type 1 scene (i don't know why, but I hate type 2...always have since Ice Age).  I found out about this website months ago, and have been continually reading the forums.  I haven't played in about a year, but I'm currently attempting build a half-ghetto hulk smash deck (no drains, some power, no LoA), in case I find a T1 tourney somewhere near home.

If anybody is playing/testing frequently in the Salem/ Beverly/ Danvers area and is lookin for another person to play, shoot me an email:

honkeyb5@yahoo.com[/u]