Very solid article, but i don't like it.

Because a hate deck could never be successfull in any balanced Metagame and so it can'te be the best Deck in the World. The Article is so much about this <°)))>< deck, which ist just overhyped. I think the CoW Decks will make it harder for Fish to survive in a balanced Metagame. And perhaps an TnT Deck will make Top8 at Gen Con when all People who believe in Fish play it there.

Some sentences makes absolutly no sence, Landstill will not beat 4cc or Tog by choosing the control way to victory.

There's so much in the article I could not agree and not only its Metagame dependent direction. The "in-Game-Tipps" are also not the best ones... (breaking a standstill imidieatly..)

The right amount of mana depends on the Deck, a Stompy just needs mana to go off, so you can easilly mulligan down when u have not enough mana. a stable manabase in keeper is another story, playing 4 colors and add strip mines (5) could easily be ripped off, but it works when you use stifles and brainstorms. In My Mud build there are 28 Mana sources + 4 Metalworker, but I've a lot of options to spend that high amount of mana.

The statistical difference between 25 and 26 Manasources is very hard to feel, when you play this deck. It must be played over a long periode of time.



*smile*, first Turnhout is not germany and second nearly every Deck (including Keeper) plays 5 wastelands here and often Gorilla Shaman, you should read more carefully....

@Restriction of Workshops:
This make's no sense at all. Control Slavery needs none and Tog runs also. Workshop Decks can handle Tog, so when they die the Metagame could split into two great parts:

Hulksmash-Tog.dec

and:

extremeAntiTog.dec (Chains in Suicide/Keeper for example)

Or:

Strange Combodecks, that has no fear about Sphere's (Landbelch and draw7 can't go off when a Sphere of any Kind hits the table).

First turn Trinisphere isn't always good, its sometimes a gamble. Wasteland anyone? No second Workshop? Bad thing.

GRAnkh with maindeck Artifact Mutation and 5 Stripmines is a good solution against Workshop decks, and it isn't that bad against Psychatog. Restrict Workshops is no answer!

--

We have no proxy tournaments around here, and this isn't that bad. Sometimes a player can win with secret tech and his own ideas. But why the hell should WE build decks for them? And unpowered?

I think that power for all is not the solution, because after all you must CAN play it well. Sometimes I am wondering about Fullpowered Decks sitting on the last 5 tables in a 80 people tournament. Or sometimes they make one mistake after the next, but win because they draw the raw power in the next round.

Good Morning ,

@Clown of Tresserhorn, Smmenen
Huh, this says nothing. Goldfish by turn 5 with an Aggro/Control Deck is nothing special, and 5 turns could be to slow against most of the decks.

@Smash
Yes, you're right, the Trends often makes the Metagame, this is another Problem with the Proxies. Each just look at the new list of the Guru players copy it and when it is not too hard to play, they win. When the next deck comes out, they play it. Netdecking is not the best answer for a healty environment.
Why Keeper isn't that popular, I think it is its complexity. It is much more hard to play and to choose the right decisions. Hulk can return to win with a single tog, ran over and game over. With Keeper you could easilly loose every game, or win it.

Metagame:
Tog could be a worse Metagame call in a tourney with a lot of Workshop builds and Slavers, they are definitly the Togs "natural" enemies. In my opinion a TnT Deck would be more successful in a Workshop-Prison Area, but this is just a though.

The problem with the statistic is as well a problem with the Proxy Tournaments, we have none around here, so you must always expect some strange builds, which are really no problem for either Tog or Workshop. But not everybody's playing tog or Workshopdecks.

When I read the strategy guide to win against Workshop "Schornstein" Decks, I think the best way of playing Mud is to stop the Tog AND Block his manasources. Blocking Mana Sources could be easy, because it is the nature of the Mud Deck. I never saw the problem in an early tog, just because I always found a way to handle it, but I will goldfish this later on this day.

Perhaps someone would like to test with me over MWS and yes this is for "scientific" use, not for who is right.

@Spizzard
The high amount of Chump blockers come from two Reasons, the first is Karn (2x) and a lot of Artifacts, i.E. Tangle Wire, Smokestack and so on. I must just chumpblock it for 1-2 times, because then the permanent advantage is high enought to get rid of the tog. The second is what you could make out of a lot of mana...

@Toad
Each broken start ended up in a Gamewin (if not FoWed), even a broken Goblinstart kills each Deck Round 3.
What do you define an "insane draw engine"?

@The Atog Lord
I'd never said, that Hulk is a bad Deck, but some people won't see other decks than Slaver and Hulk, this is kind of strange for me, because I've made other experiences. Top players sometimes totally ignore the other decks. We have the great time, that we have an very healthy environment, but too many people just play tog.

@Dr. Sylvan
Statistics says nothing. I believe this, because for a really good statistic u must play more tournaments AND each tournament with the same summary of decks in the start position. (ex. 4 togs, 4 keeper, 4 MUDs, 4 Madness...)

@Razvan
I'm in you're line. Tog isn't that complex, it has some basic tactics and tricks (intuition on three coffin purge, par example), the rest is brokeness. Sure more experienced players can choose the right way, but often it is just an autopilot.

That is what i meant with the animated key. He had the +7/+7 pushes in hand and graveyard, so i thought the key would be a perfect Combat Opponent for the Tog.



We're talking about 1-2 color MUD/Prison decks with Welder.

I totally agree, that a Tog player nearly never could win the Permanent Control Battle, he has nearly none and a Smokestack @2 and a sphere is game over. But the Aggro way is as hard to, with all the Chumpblockers in the way. The Tog player cannot totaly ignore the board position, as he can do against other machups.

I think we should playtest it more.

@Spizzard

No way means, aggressivly attack on his Manabase and Permanent removal. The only thing I really fear is a pernicious deed, which also resolves, but when you held back enough new threads u can easily return to the game after the boardsweeper.

@JPMeyer

Yes that's true, but what about the "chumpblockers".. Goblin Welder, Metalworker and say Voltaic Key (animated).

The strange thing is, that I really would expect that games would go the way u describe it, but this is so theoretical. I don't know how much experience my opponent has with his (and mine deck), but its strange to see that a deck like tog often just not works. I think that I should test it a lot more (tog), but the hype is still strange for me.

@Toad:

Hmm, The first move he did in the first game was:

Fetch, Tropico, Mox Jet, Mox Ruby -> Tog. I let it through for about 6 rounds going down to 14, blocked him then wir workers or welders. I'll try to understand the game, what can he do when he has no chance to play cunning wish (because of heavy mana denial) for berserk? The Tog is quit useless.

I just try to understand the way tog goes, but I don't think that he has a good chance going the aggro way. I've played no Chalice main in my MUD Build.

BTW this was round 6 and he was unbeatened in Eindhoven, not a very random metagame for sure. And he played a Red build with ArtiMutati.

Back to the discussion, which other Matchup (excluding Slavery) is horrible for a tog player? I just ask because perhaps one day I want to play it, so trying to understand the Deck.

I would add Tanglewire, because they can make sure, you're opponent can't drain you're big beasts. Why don't you play some Su-Chi's, they incredible against control. In a MonoBrown build, each card must be either Mana or a Thread. I think 4 Triskelia are much overpowered, but I will test it later on.

Some Sideboard options I mentioned:
Defense Grid
Serrated Arrows (against welder)
Powder Keg
Masticore

I don't think that they will go that high. When you add all the Workshops and the Drains together, you will not come on that much playsets (estimated 75.000 playsets of Mana Crypts). And not every player wan't to play the card either. I'll know much people playing it once died because of it one or two times and will never play them again in their builds. Most of the Mana Drains were used in Controllish Styled Decks like Landstill, Keeper or URPhidian, so fewer people really need them in their Decks.

For sure good type1 cards will never going to be cheaper, but the Mana Crypt will definitly be not the huge amount on the Scales.

When you look carefully through the Trading Binders of most old style casual players u will find a lot of them. People paying over 20$ this time are to lazy to search for them.

Hello,

I've read a lot of Forum threads and Webposts about the Hulksmash.deck. Everybody loves playing the Tog and talks about it as it were the best deck at the moment. I don't feel so, perhaps I've played against a lot of Togs during my last three tournaments. My deck is a strange MUD build with 6 Sphere's MD, okay this is definitly a lot, but I lost just one match against the Tog. I've won a match an opposing Pernicious Deed on the Table also, that sound strange.

I think that the Sphere's (Trini and Resistance) totally ruins the Togs Manabase, I am not interested how much cards he has in his hand, when he can play just a few of them. My deck isn't perfect thats for sure, but why the hell does everybody hypes the Tog.dec?

It is definitly a very good deck, but It has it weaknesses. What do you think?

I think the best start is to take some cards you like. The next step should be a prototype of you're own deck. Perhaps a strange Combo, no other might see at the first time, or add some good/stange addititions to an existing deck. When you own all the cards, it should be easy to build a good deck no one exepts. Look through you're pile and use as few as possible netdecking.

At the moment I play a strange R/W MUDbuild, designed by a friend of mine. Plays very nice and works great!