sphere of resistance is the least sided card, i'm thinking about taking them out of the sideboard all together.

And Wheel of fortune is great.. except if you dont win that turn, you gave your opponent 7 new cards that they WILL win with.

In the original post, you will see why welders are strong in this deck. Also it doesn't run juggernaut. Wasteland doesnt hurt this deck at all. Metalworker is its mana engine. If I found wastelands were a problem I'd run crucible. Crucible is only good when you can use it against your opponent.

too the both of you, the hardest problem for me is finding space to fit sphere or shrapnel blast etc.  Sphere is really good with affinity. However maybe I am just taking a different approach than you did. With metalworkers and lightning greaves, I play to combo out on like turn 2. or 3.

As far as i'm concerned, there are only 3 floating spots in the deck, thats the lightning greaves. I've found that disruption is an afterthought with this deck.

Good ideas thus far though.

I think we came to red at the same time, you just posted your list first, while me Anton, and Adam dicussed and tested it verbally.

And to null rod. Does it hurt the deck? Yep. But when I won my Emerald, Dragon played a first turn null rod against me, Answered it just fine with a crusher that became big and a trike. Thats right, combo, played first turn hate vs the deck and I still won the match in 3 games.

The great thing about this deck is that it doenst just die to hate. Energy flux is laughable. You pay for metalworker, and drop your hand/kill them all in the same turn. Or simply use metalworker to pay all the upkeeps.

If you examine the current fish lists you'll see that alot of them don't even run null rod. When nulll rods come into play, you basically just have to realize that you have new goals. Get a giant crusher, or cast triskelions.

I think this deck has taught me something very valuable. Hate isnt everything. If they dont draw it, or the damage is done before it hits, it is useless. In response to a null rod many of times i'd made a 6/6 ravager or so and rode it to victory.

Pretty much exactly what I was getting at. Guess I got long winded and didnt go for the simple explanation.

I'm just saying there is more to this deck that it looks like on paper. Lets take the balance issue. Balances own as long as there isnt a retriever or skullclamp out, and your hand is empty. There are other things to consider in this stax matchup.. Like the fact that you have probably more permenants than them. And that retriever saced to smokestack is almost helping you. Not to mention you can board in crucibles as well. Not to mention that a resolved metalworker puts you so far ahead of stax counters. You can sac all your lands, and still cast as if nothing is going on.

Also vs gifts they have to have 2 fetches to be able to drain. If you go first, if they dont have force of will, you can kill them before they get to two mana, barring they dont have lotus, or sapphire.

This deck banks on the fact that 2 outa 3 games, you're not gonna find the answers fast enough.
I think the probblem with online deck critiquing is that in theory, you're right this deck isa pile.

Lets look at food chain for instance. Its a deck that pretty much has no chance in beating combo. And yet it does sometimes. TPS or dragon should on paper beat goblins every time. They can beat a 3-4 turn clock with ease.

However tournaments are won with goblins rarely, and do beat combo in swiss rounds.

This is the result of the combo player not being able to find that 1 last mana source to go off in time, or the goblin player dropping 2 first turn lackeys, followed up by kiki and piledriver.

I believe that this deck tries to abuse a part of magic that most decks dont. The fact that you can be consisnt and self driven.

I know you're thinking wtf are you talking about.

Lets look at gifts ungiven decks. They're consistant, which is why its good, but it isnt self driven. If the opponent refuses to play anything or you dont get a mana drain, they deck is very slow.

Crusher has alot of fast plays that by themself can win the game. First turn crusher, first turn ravager, first turn metalworker, first turn welder, first turn skullclamp.


We're discussing workshop aggro in this thread. I'm trying to bring an idea to the table that makes workshop aggro better. Gifts, and CS still beat the normal workshop aggro decks.

Normal workshop aggro builds revolve around resolving 1 threat first turn, followed by another turn 2.


Crusher shines because it has to many first turn dropable threats, and things to bring them back cheaply, and is able to draw more cards than the curent workshop aggro. It can drop a few low casting cost threats turn 1, and drop the rest of its hand turn 2. Semi-often finishing the opponent off that turn.

So in ideal magic, gifts, cs, etc will have answers, and the right mana base to combat aggro decks, and hell should even have force of will, with first turn sapphire, island, and stifle in hand to deal with combo.

I like to bank on the fact that 1 outa 3 games they're gonna die trying to find answers. 1 game i'm gonna go broken. Every type one deck "CAN" go broken on the first turn. And 1 game I plan on them going broken and owning me.

What I feel it comes down too is. Do I want force of wills in my deck to combat Combo or Combo finishes, or do i wonna make my deck fast and consistant and just race them. Half the time a force of will against combo is met with either  a duress or force of will anyways. I'd rather put them on the fast clock.

If gifts belcher is heavy in the metagame, this deck can obviously support pithing needle to help that matchup, as well as the CS matchup, however i see it getting welded out vs cs.

My finals thoughts are, they're two types of magic players. 1 thinks they will outplay their opponent or have a better matchup 2 outa 3 games in a match. The other(me) Thinks I'm gonna win 1 game that they cant pull out of, and my opponents deck is gonna fail atleast once in a match.

I dont want this to turn into a flame war. But you could atleast playtest the deck before you belittle it. Yes, grabbing balance and wiping my board kills me. So does combo, comboing out before CS ever gets a turn. And yet its considered one of the best decks. These are extreme examples.

Against gifts you have welder vs their colossus. Not to mention the fact that gifts is relatively slow.

Combo is the worst matchup, its not unwinable.

I put alot of time, and so did other TMD members into this deck, and it went through three 30-55 person tournaments and made top 8 three times and won one of them. All of this was done before it was brought to the community.

And all you do is attack it with a "I dont like this deck, i wish you newbs would fall off the earth and stop trying to play magic" attack.

I surf this forum just as much as the next guy. And I see decklists I think are horrible, and are horrible. Usually they have no playtesting background and no matchup analysis or card choice arguments and are quickly locked or disreguarded.

I do a matchup analysis and am torn apart to identifying a weakness.

This may be why people don't wonna take the time to write about a deck on these forums.

Thanks
Cory

Thread split off Rico's post due to being extremely offtopic. -jeek

I have a workshop arggo deck I play that I've pretty much only seen in the northwest. It derived from Affinity and became Crusher.

The table top crew were the first people I saw play it. It ran blue for tinker, time walk, ancestral.

I playtested the deck vigorously and came up with using red.

I present to you Strawberry Crush:

This is the most update and best list I feel.

Cory McElroy
Strawberry Crush

MD
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Black Lotus
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sol Ring
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mana Vault
1 Strip Mine
1 Tolarian Academy
4 Mishra's Workshop
1 Memory Jar
3 Lighning Greaves
4 Triskelion
4 Goblin Welder
4 Arcbound Crusher
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Metal Worker
4 Skullclamp
4 Myr Retriever
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Great Furnace
4 Wasteland

SB
2 Crucible of Worlds
4 Jester's Cap
4 Defense Grid
4 Sphere of Resistance
1 Trinisphere

I have played this deck 3 times in a 30-55 person tournament. I have made top 8 every time, and taken first to win a mox once.

Background on the deck.

Basically I saw the deck played and was dumbfounded that Arcbound Ravager + Triskelion was amazing. The tabletop crew were racing combo with creatures, and touted the ability to kill on the second turn.

So I get a list, put it together and start playing. I fall in love with the deck. Its fast, its resilient and can combo out facing any type of threat.

The first list that I tested ran Tinker, Time Walk, Ancestral Recall, Sundering Titan, 4 Arcbound Workers. That is the difference from my current list.

Playing the deck, you get the feel that retriever is really good. I decided that I needed to test red, Initially it was for sideboard options vs combo and welders. The welders are amazing in this deck. Not only do they do the normal tricks... But let me list the other benefits of him.

1. Welder + retriever nets you a artifact from the graveyard.
2. Helps you make Crusher get bigger by swapping artifacts.
3. Allows you build a arcbound creature's counters with only having 1 in play and 1 in the graveyard.

Those are the main 3 things that welder does in this deck that it doesn't do in every artifact deck. Still stellar vs control and still welds out someone else's colossus.

When playtesting this deck, I kept asking myself what is the weakest card in the deck. And I always came back with the answer of Arcbound Worker. Everything else in the deck seemed to fit the feel. This creature did not however. The only thing he really adds to the deck is the ability to move mod counters on him and make the deck a little more resilient to artifact hate.

So at this point the deck was the same as above except it ran 4 goblin welders and 3 arcbound workers. At this point I switched the arcbound workers to jester's cap main deck.  It was good, however I found it to be useless in non combo or combo finish deck matches.

So after playing 2 tournaments and hundreds of games. I came to the conclusion that Goblin Welder is too slow. He was gettin killed or being drawn the turn I was comboing out for the win and was essentially just a clamp target or a non artifact that was taking up space.

Lightning Greaves is the answer. It speeds up the fundamental turn of this deck by 1. This deck would put out tons of third and 4th turn kills. With Greaves it is now 2nd and third turn. It also makes comboing out much easier, once you clamp some stuff and draw into that second metalworker that used to be dead...now nets you like 12 mana... and fuel to go through the rest of your deck.

Lightning Greaves has fringe benefits only noticed when playing a bunch of games. The protection that it provides... Welders and ravagers. Many times I'll throw out a bunch of moxes, a ravager, and a greaves, and have a 5/5 hasted cant be targeted ravager in play... 4 turn clock that cant be answered directly.

I know combo is this deck's nightmare... However this deck is incredibly consistant. My team mates would ask what I was gonna do vs combo and I'd say "lose" jokingly.

This deck has a different mentality than most other decks in the format. It is really consistant. It will never win on the first turn, and rarely on the second, but like 60% on the third turn and the rest by turn 5.

When I analyze how a Match can go this is what outcomes I forsee when playing any deck.
1. I get a broken hand and win on turn 2 or 3.
2. They get a broken hand and win before I can get to turn 2 or 3.
3. They get a bad to mediocre hand.
4. I get a bad to mediocre hand.

What crusher's biggest strength is... Is it's ability to eliminate #4. I'm not saying you wont have to mulligan. Because you do a fair share of mulliganing. I'm just saying that its so redundant and synergistic that it doesn't really have a bad hand, baring you get 3 mana by turn 2.

I expect any given match to end in 3 games with Crusher. And I've built the sideboard accordingly. The deck does win 2-0 semi-often, But it requires them to get a bad hand or me get a broken hand games 1 and 2.

Trinisphere only comes in vs combo and when I play first vs any deck. Trinisphere is really bad in this deck and is really bad in general when played going second.

Defense grid is a great first turn play vs control, for 2 mana it says opponent must counter this. It helps metalworker hit play vs control.

Jester's cap is potent, especially in a deck that can drop and activate it first turn. Helps the combo match up.

I run spheres in the board just to throw a wrench in combo's gears. It doesn't really stop much of the combo, But it can lead to you still being alive around turn 5.. Which should have sealed you the game.

Honorable Mentions
Cranial plating. Everyone knows this is a beating. However I don't feel it fits the deck, alone it does nothing. If i have a creature out, I'm usually winning anyway.

Staff of Domination: it taps akroma, it combos out for the win. But coming up with 3 artifacts in hand, a non sickened metalworker and no disruption is a lot to ask for in type 1.

Junk Diver: Retriever 5-8? Or just a flying retriever? I'm not sure that 1 more mana is worth making it fly. I never really have a problem trampling over something.. and usually just end up killing with a triskelion anyways.

The Blue Vs Red Debate.

Blue is good for short power bursts.
Red is good for longevity.

With this deck, 1 welder activation is as good as a Tinker or ancestral. I weigh welder as an ancestral every turn. Every turn that welder is active, it is equivalent to drawing 3 cards.

I basically have seen lots of attempts to break ravager/skullclamp on the forum. And have sat back and played this to top 8 finishes 3 times with lots of testing. Before I gave my list to the community. And yes I've tested disciple of the vault, and yes it is horrible without a ravager in play.

The key to this deck is having everything interact with eachother, but nothing only interacting with just 1 other card in the deck.

Matchups:

Single worst match up has to be Control Slaver.

I've played it 3 times in a tournament. Once in swiss, and twice in top 8. I've only ever beaten it in the swiss by a good player who still made top 8. The losses went to Randy Bueler and another wizards employee who borrowed Randy's deck for the next tournament.

The reason Slaver has so much game against Crusher, is their game plan is to slave you once to win... and they know you don't have any disruption besides what you see on the board.

Combo the second worst match up
Anything that can kill before crusher gets a turn is a problem. Tps is a larger problem due to main deck hurkyls recall and rebuild. Other things like dragon with blue etc are usually 1 turn to slow.

Control decks are usually in Crusher's favor due to so much recursion, they can counter stuff, but they cant counter all the threats, even retriever is a threat because it'll get something back they don't want.

Arggo and Arggo control are usually really favorable to Crusher. Due to the fact that you can do your combo thing while they watch and be pissed that someone else is playing creatures that aren't 11/11 in type 1.


CS seems to be leaving and gift colossus taking it's place. I think it makes Crusher an excellent candidate for any large tournament in the near future.

I plan to play this deck on Saturday at power tournament being held at regionals.

I hope this helps some people, because it took a while to type this out.

Thanks for reading.
Cory

PS Thanks too
Virtual and Xrizzo from TWL for constructive input on the deck.
Table top crew for showing me the original deck.
Team card tard  for helping me test all of the changes.

If your build of oath, Mana Drains are very lack luster. You have very few sources to pump the colorless into. I'd run counterspell over drain. It would help fuel your impulses/aks and cunning wishes. But that would all be done during your main phases. It "can" lead to a broken tun, but more often then not you'll just end up burning.

Even with the intuition/ak or Intuition deep analysis version, drain mana wasn't always good cause it meant using mana on my own turn, which is really bad unless its oath.

However common those situations may be, I'd bet most of the time they're some fetches in there that stops you from wastelanding it. Also you're playing with a creature that is meant to disrupt, but doesn't disrupt until it is out of summoning sickness. The only creature that is worth waiting for is something fat or a goblin welder. It is also horrible with ninja of the deep hours. There is at least sue-do symmetry with javalineers. Allowing you to gain an extra counter at the cost of giving it summoning sickness again. Weathered wayfarer also doesn't help turn 1 fetch land, turn 2 regular land, moxen, go off tendrils you to death.

Now lets get to the point that once its done being sickened. You have to use even more resources to use its ability. Fish is all about abusing its resources to the fullest. If the effect put it into play, then it'd be abusing a resource. Against most decks abusing this creature is almost time walking them. Basically you destroy a land, and they get to use their moxen and draw a card and setup. While you attack them even slower than fish usually does.

Reality Check time.
It is good when you strip your opponent 5 times in a row? sure. How often are they gonna play into 6 strip effects. Not often.

This guy is only remotely good when your opponent doesn't draw any basics or fetches. Which will be rare. And even at that place. You'll have landlocked yourself at 1 land. So when the dust settles, you'll have a 1/1 and 1 land, and they'll have a full hand with moxen out, and 6 turns to setup.

Flying men vs the weathered wayfarer. It doesn't fly. that means its harder for you to ninja once you've taken out their lands. Secondly it doesn't actually combat your opponents. They can simply wait until they can go broken and fight through a few strip effects, or lay down enough basics/fetches to dump something fat thats gonna run over you. Makes your match up vs combo weaker. You put a creature who doesn't pitch to force, and has no evasion in to strip the lands that combo doesn't play many of anyway, and can win off the ones they play that turn.

If they go first, they get 2 uninterrupted turns with their lands, even if you play a wayfarer.. Which is really bad for the fish player. I know flying men doesn't do any better. But it does pitch to force, which would help you through these turns slightly better. It also makes using daze horrible. Sure you get under the land count. But you play a land, then fetch at the end of their turn.. you did nothing.. they did everything.

I'd love to hear other people's oppionions.

Mirkwood
(888-419-7032)
402 S 1st St.
Mount Vernon
Wa
Sat April 2nd Deck Registration 11am - 12pm
Tournament Starts 12:30pm
Entry Fee $20 (13 Proxies)
Type 1 (swiss cut to top 8)
1st - Choice of: Ex Ruby, Pl Jet, Pl Emerald, or
Ex Timetwister
2nd - Sealed box Magic (in stock) or $125.00 store credit
3rd - 21 Boosters (in stock) or $75.00 store credit
4th - 15 boosters (in stock) or $50.00 store credit
5th thru 8th - 10 boosters (in stock) or $35.00 store credit
Prizes as stated regardless of attendance
REL3. Our goal is to have fun, but keep it fair.
Hope to see you all there!

I was the "affinity" player in top 8. I got screwed against him, i had to mull both games, he had welder out like turn 2/whatever turn he got outa trinisphere's grip both games. Also after mulling and going first, i put my faith in trinisphere's hands. Now, keep in mind after trinisphere hit, i also wastelanded him twice, and stripmined.. and a few turns later when i actually died, he was at 6 lands again. His heavy land draw won him the game by far. When trinisphere hit, he asked to make sure it effected force of will and such.

As far as the affinity goes, not a single card in my deck has affinity. I was playing Crusher. The next day with the same deck i won a mox emerald. CS is the worst matchup for this deck, because any slaver activation usually loses you the game. Not to mention that welder is bad news also.

What I learned from that top8 against randy.. Trini +3 strip effects doesnt always win you the game...

Just a reminder, the tournament is this Saturday.

Cardtard Open

Prizes:
1st - Choice of Unlimited NM/M Pearl, EX Ruby, EX Emerald, Played Jet, or EX Timetwister.
2nd Played Library of Alexandria
3rd 75 Store Credit
4th 50 Store Credit
5th-8th 40 Store Credit

Entry Fee: 20 Dollars

Proxies: 13 proxies are allowed. Lands with text is preferred.

When: Saturday December 4th
Deck Registration at 11am. Tournament starts at 12 noon.

Where: Mirkwood in Mt. Vernon
Mirkwood
402 S 1st ST
Mount Vernon WA, 98273

Contacts: Mirkwoodstore@aol.com or 888-419-7032

If you plan on buying weapons with store credit or cash, you need to be 18 yrs or older or have a parent we can talk to on the phone.

So come out and play some magic and maybe get some christmas shopping done at the same time.

There are many resturaunts and bars in walking distance from Mirkwood.

See ya all there,
Cory

What the dragon player is fine. If you had asked the Judge, he'd of said pick a number. Dragon picks 10 million then mill your deck. However I believe the game played out incorrectly. The blessing would trigger. no matter how many cards you milled, when the stack would resolve the graveyard would be shuffled back into your library. The only way for dragon to win with the responding to blessing method is to make you draw a card somehow.

Please someone correct me if i am wrong.

Later
Cory

Kandy,
You need to hold a cube tournament. Have it be invite only or something. And have cards registered, 25 canadian to enter or somethin and have it be for a peice of power. I've never been able to play ina  cube draft yet, but sounds fun. Maybe at the next mirkwood tourny we can get together early and do a cube draft or somethin.


Later
Cory

I think Tinker has a spot in this deck. The moxen would support it. Sundering Titan is a big enough tinker target. Platinum angel is also a target, however less of one. It's also another blue card.

On another note. What about trying to abuse Solemn Simulacrum and Back to Basics. Or maybe even as a sideboard route. Abusing Titan isn't always the easiest thing. Alot of pain lands running around these days.

Also if I were looking to lock their mana down with Titan, I'd want a main deck mox monkey to take care of their moxen.

I can't see this deck becoming dominant. If it were to be the new craze. Decks would just put in more creature hate. Add to the list of problem decks.. U/R landstill If U/G oath is floating around, Landstill will be very good. You can burn down the creatures they try to give you. Waste their forbidden orchards etc. Thats asuming you dont win the counter war and oath never hits. With U/G oath, I'd fear a deck with force of will more than trinisphere. You'll keep a hand with mox, fobidden orchard, and oath. If that is forced(assuming you dont have a force) you now have a bad hand thats giving them creatures every time you try to counter something etc.

It appears the deck list needs 4 dark rituals... as it seems it's 4 cards short. It was a very nice read. Nice work.

I'll be there.

I was playing U/R Landstill pretty normal build except for my flavor choices of magma jet over ak and 1 main deck earthquake and 2 crucibles... The only 3 games i lost the entire tournament were with crucible in play oddly enough. all 3 games i lost were to top 8 seats. I'd of made top 8 had it been dci point system, instead of random other system that the dci program uses when you accidentally click off the dci point system. My team mate Gmontang took my spot, simply because he won 1 more game than i did in the tournament.. Those of you who know the non dci system that the dci program uses will understand this.. For once my tie breakers would get me into the finals.. and i cant even abuse it lol.

Anyways it was fun... but way to hot.

Not even a Crucible of the worlds both games in a row could save me from Magi

This tournament starts at 3pm pst.
3rd will be 2 dual lands
4th will be 1 dual land

Call for directions or email me at CoryWMcElroy@hotmail.com

Our last tournament for a workshop brought 20 people. Hoping to get more this time.

Next tourny is.
type 1 with 5 proxies
Saturday June 5th.
15 dollar entry

1st Played Library of alexandria
2nd Italian Nethervoid
3rd TBD
4th TBD

Contact info:
402 South 1st St. Mount Vernon, WA 98273
phone: (888) 419 7032

Monday:
Tuesday:
Wednesday: Yu-Gi-Oh 3:30pm (Stanwood)
Thursday: 4:30pm Type 2 (Mount Vernon)
Friday: 7:00pm - 7:30pm Draft (Stanwood) - 6:30pm-7:00pm Type 1.25 (Mount Vernon)
Saturday: 12:30-1pm Type 1.5 (Mount Vernon) - Draft 4:30pm (Mount Vernon)
Sunday: 12:30-1pm Type 1 (Stanwood)

Friday April 30th  7:00pm Type 1.25(type 1 without power 9) for a played workshop
1st played workshop
2nd 2 duals
3rd ?

15 dollar entry type 1.25(type 1 without power 9)

Small store starting the first of its monthly tournaments.

Contact info:
402 South 1st St. Mount Vernon, WA 98273
phone: (888) 419 7032

Later
Cory