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1  Vintage Community Discussion / Type 4 / Re: [Type 4] Most degenerated cards on: September 14, 2009, 09:39:31 am
Out of those, I play Dark Depths, Progenitus, Legacy Weapon and Whispers of the Muse. I try to avoid cards that can kill in one hit or otherwise go infinite all by themselves. So Hellkite Overlord, Consumptive Goo, Akroma Angel of Fury, X spells that target players, Walking Archive, Treasure Trove, Djinn Illuminatus, Mirror Sheen, Door to Nothingness, Mischievous Quanar and others are all out. (Some I could probably safely put in but don't for consistency's sake)

Yes, I realize all of the above cards are easily dealt with, but I don't like the idea of "Get rid of this or lose instantly" or "counter this or lose". It's nearly the same concept as the higher level "Save or die" spells in D&D, which I didn't like as well.

What cards you play also directly relates to the power level of your stack. If you're light on Wrath effects and/or Counterspells, Progenitus might be a bad idea for you, so it's really a judgment call. It also matters a lot what house rules you roll with. My suggestion would be to put the card in our stack, test it out and see how it plays, see how often it kills players and gauge other player's reactions to it. If it's killing too often, maybe you're too light on the appropriate removal. If nobody is having fun with the card, I would probably remove it as well. The whole point is to have fun.

2  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: [Single Card Discussion] Blood Extractor on: September 11, 2009, 01:11:16 pm
Why is everyone limiting their discussion of this card to its applications in Ichorid? Imagine the following list:

*snip*

The one glaring weakness of this deck would be its inability to run Null Rod, but the other synergies in the deck are undeniable. Skullclamp + Confidant, Extractor, and Bitterblossom all feed the storm count while serving as beatsticks. Extractor's ability to come back also give you inevitability against creature decks as you can have a lot of blockers every turn while you wait for that lethal tendrils

Bloodghast can't block so your only option is to race, which isn't nearly as good.
3  Vintage Community Discussion / Type 4 / Re: [Type 4] Zendikar on: September 11, 2009, 08:55:51 am
What do you guys think of Elemental Appeal?

Elemental Appeal RRRR
Sorcery     Rare
Kicker 5 (You may pay an additional 5 as you cast this spell)
Put a 7/1 red Elemental creature token with trample and haste onto the battlefield. Exile it at the beginning of the next end step. If Elemental Appeal was kicked, that creature gets +7/+0 until end of turn.

So it's a 14/1 trample that your opponent may be wary to use precious removal on since the threat doesn't stay on the board. (In the very least might dissuade other players from helping the player you're attacking) It doesn't seem particularly worse than Searing Wind which I play in my stack. (Other than it being a Sorcery)

Granted, with my stack we almost never draft and almost exclusively do sudden death (No starting hand) so that makes this card a little better.

I think it's very fine, compare this to any haste flyer, do they really stay in play for 3 attacks? The only downside is that everyone will probably want to counter him unless you are very clear at who you want to hit.

I like it too, but I think it has a completely opposite effect (at least in the way that I play). Unless I was at >14, didn't have removal/blockers, and couldn't be certain that I wasn't getting attacked, I would HATE to counter this thing. That or if I was CERTAIN that I was getting attacked, and even then I'd have to think about it (I hate countering Searing Wind, for example). The thought wouldn't even cross my mind in any other situation. It's only gonna hurt one player, so wasting a counter when there's a chance that it will do nothing but benefit me seems poor. So in a way, this is actually a semi-uncounterable (in that you won't counter it if you don't know it's coming for you), sorcery speed Searing Wind. Seems fun.

That is exactly what I was thinking! Searing Wind at least you know the target in terms of countering purposes. With this thing, you have no idea who is getting attacked and if you're skeptical, it really sucks using removal to save somebody else. (Which is even more precious in sudden death)
4  Vintage Community Discussion / Type 4 / Re: Type 4 Created Cards Proxies on: September 11, 2009, 08:46:05 am
Don't really understand the need for Prof X's second ability? Why would you pay life, it seems only useful in very limited situations, you could replace that with something different in flavor.

Also, 2/2? He's in a WHEELCHAIR! You're telling me he can take a bear in combat? I'd make him 0/2, that chair can probably take 1 damage for him.

Enemy seems a little weak, take Eladamri's Call for instance, or even Chord of Calling. Both are far superior, at least make the creature come into play, althought it would need to be some other color then.

One more thing, Batman black and Red? Since when is he greedy and anarchic?

I'd also probably remove the "from their hand" part of Dr. Doom, it adds very little and I don't see why other spells would be allowed.



Yeah, I see what you mean. Batman should probably be mono-red or R/W. I also agree with Professor X's P/T as 0/2. The 2 life is to steal the creature permanently, but in T4 you can just use his first ability every turn so it doesn't matter. (Although your opponent does regain control temporarily every turn for what it's worth) I'll probably just end up making the second ability cost mana as well, but more of it.

Enemy of my Enemy and to an extent Dr. Doom are both the way they are as a side effect of me trying to tie it too closely to the actual Vs. System card. EomE for example is nearly identical except in Vs. the effect in general is WAY stronger, it was a $50 card at that point. Dr. Doom's "From the hand" is the same scenario.

Here's the original for reference.


In hindsight, I would probably change it to something a little more powerful such as:
"When Dr. Doom enters the battlefield, return target instant or sorcery card from your graveyard to your hand.
As long as Dr. Doom is untapped, your opponents can't cast non-creature spells."

EomE would be something like:
"As an additional cost to play Enemy of my Enemy, discard a creature card.
Search your library for a creature card that doesn't share a creature type with the discarded card an put it into play. Shuffle your library afterwards."
Then change it to a sorcery, then make it G/B or just green.
5  Vintage Community Discussion / Type 4 / Re: Type 4 Created Cards Proxies on: September 10, 2009, 03:24:31 pm
Ever since Vs. System went under (R.I.P.) I've been itching to make some custom cards, and I've found that T4 would be perfect (As it's a casual bomb-y format after all)

If you know anything about Vs. System you'll know that some effects are much stronger there than in Magic. As in, tapping a creature when it isn't your turn is HUGE in Vs. and not really a big deal in Magic. Destroying resources (Land is the best comparison I guess) without replacing them is also very rare. +DEF abilities are also much more critical in Vs. You also can't convert cost and P/T directly or you'd have 7 mana 16/16's that steal turns with no drawbacks.

Anyway, these are loosely inspired by their Vs. System counterparts. I'm still experimenting. They're not that hugely overpowered or swingy like some of the cards posted before me, but here's my attempt nonetheless:



6  Vintage Community Discussion / Type 4 / Re: [Type 4] Zendikar on: September 10, 2009, 01:38:20 pm
What do you guys think of Elemental Appeal?

Elemental Appeal RRRR
Sorcery     Rare
Kicker 5 (You may pay an additional 5 as you cast this spell)
Put a 7/1 red Elemental creature token with trample and haste onto the battlefield. Exile it at the beginning of the next end step. If Elemental Appeal was kicked, that creature gets +7/+0 until end of turn.

So it's a 14/1 trample that your opponent may be wary to use precious removal on since the threat doesn't stay on the board. (In the very least might dissuade other players from helping the player you're attacking) It doesn't seem particularly worse than Searing Wind which I play in my stack. (Other than it being a Sorcery)

Granted, with my stack we almost never draft and almost exclusively do sudden death (No starting hand) so that makes this card a little better.
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