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Eternal Formats / Creative / [DECK] T1 Enchantress - The Control version.
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on: August 05, 2004, 03:01:34 am
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Cutting Black is a bit extreme I feel. Without blue and black, the deck loses its control feel, which is what I find appealing about it. In Green/White, the deck is just a silly combo/control deck. I believe it needs the black cards, especially tutor and duress. Words of Waste is also incredible with Libraries. I really really do not want to cut any colours. =) Living Wish is great, but it demands a lot of tweaking. First to make room for 2 or 3 wishes, then the modification of the entire sideboard. And to be able to get the most out of the wish, the sideboard must consist of mostly lands or creatures. However, the SB NEEDS StP, Ground Seal, Ivory Mask, Sacred Ground ( I forgot that card in my discussions about NB-Land hate; after boarding the strip effect doesn't seem so bad anymore), Choke, etc. Sterling Grove is also really slow as far as tutors go. It slow alright, but also re-usable and makes your enchantments untargetable. =) Ow, now that we're are at it: - What does Tog do about Worship? - What does FCG do against Worship? It seems like a card that can really break, or at least slow, most aggro decks... One last thing: How do I quote specific persons? Everytime I Quote, it just says "Quote:" instaid op "Rozetta said:"  |
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Eternal Formats / Creative / [DECK] T1 Enchantress - The Control version.
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on: August 04, 2004, 11:21:42 am
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@Toad:Words of Wisdom is definitly not needed in the maindeck. It's really crap. 15 life is good? Maybe. But you could have used this 3 cards to get a real game breaker against Aggro, such as Moat or Worship. It's a nice sideboard card to put you out of Disciple of the Vault range though. Hmm, you guys are not making it easier for me.  However, Toad, what you are forgetten is that a little life is needed for extensive Library and City of Brass use. Off course you could use those 2 cards from Sylvan, but then again you are also paying 8 life for them. You can only pull that off so many times before putting yourself in the danger zone. A little lifegain once every few turns really delivers speed, as you can then affort to draw 2 extra every turn. I don't like having 4 Sterling Grove in the deck, I found 3 to be the perfect number. How's that? Grove is one of the most usefull cards in the deck, and 4 seems like an obvious choice. Mirari's Wake is only good when you are already winning and should not be included in the deck. True, but it also puts more pressure on the opponent. Giving an opponent 4 more turns before he dies, is giving him 4 more turns to deal with the problem. Aura of Silence is too slow to be really efficient, especially when you have to way to deal with Goblin Welder and Thirst for Knowledge. Seal of Cleansing is really better. Especially if you are running 1 Eternal Dragon. You should definitly maindeck 3, these are hot in many matchups and are never dead draws. My meta is very artifact heavy, and I believe the silence to be very useful against them. That's why I run both. Its only one mana more, for a very substantial extra effect. You really really should cut Blue from the deck. You need basic lands to face Trinisphere + Wastelands. At least one Plains, for Seal of Cleansing under Blood Moon. Ancestral Recall is broken, I admit it. But brokeness is useless if Wasteland prevents you from using the cards Ancestral Recall gave you. In total I have 7 sources for blue mana. 4 cities, a Tundra and the mox and lotus. Chances seem slim for them to all disappear before the AR is cast. True, one blue card seems offbeat in the deck, but when you DO draw it, it is worth the slot. Oh, and the deck needs some maindeck spot removal. Artifact Aggro is immune to The Abyss, and UG Madness or Food Chain Goblins are immune to Moat. Both are too slow against Fish variants. Try to fit in some STP or, if you want an enchantment, Seal of Doom. Why is Arfticact immune to Abyss and FCG immune to Moat?... Anyway, I have StP sideboard against those (rare in my meta) decks. It just doesn't seem worth it, giving most Aggro decks cannot deal with Worship, Moat and The Abyss. Especially after a Replenish and 2 Groves in play. Do not get me wrong Toad, I value every bit of feedback. @cardiffgiant:Living wish is an interesting option, but it needs a sideboard fitted for it. That makes you vulnarable against certain types of decks, where you just need those SB cards...
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Eternal Formats / Creative / [DECK] T1 Enchantress - The Control version.
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on: August 04, 2004, 06:52:14 am
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You definitely want WoWorship main. It's synergy with Sylvan Library is just too good ( 3 and skip draw -> +15 life). By itself, it can turn game 1 loses into wins. You can also life gain out of kill range for Tog and Tendrils decks. For the first game, I'd rather have it than WofWaste or Regrowth, partly because I hate losing to red. Agree. 15 life for 3 mana at any upkeep is a good deal indeed. WoWorship stays Mainboard. An additional one is kept in the SB. At least with the decks I've seen, I think you're overestimating the value of Replenish. Aside from Deeds and Disks, there isn't a lot of mass removal of enchantments. If you are using it to get back a silver bullet, then Argivian Find is about as good. Rofellos' Gift is great if you have lots of green. Nostalgic Dreams can be REALLY good. A turn 3 Replenish is huge bonus, if not a must. For an explanation, I refer to a thing Rozetta said before; In the old days, the plan was something like:
land, mox, enchantress/sylvan <- FoW
land, duress/presence
land, replenish
This scenario was the case for 4 Replenish, since you wanted to see it early enough to get back into the game. The synergy with Sterling Grove is just awesome, and it also brings back bullets that are discarted, countered or destroyed. I mean; Sterling grove -> Sacrifice for Enchantment A (Worship) Sterling grove -> Sacrifice for Enchantment B (Moat) Replenish -> A and B are cannot be targeted. (Aggro concedes) Against control or combo, just sac the Sterling Groves over and over for anything you need. Thats why I want 4 Replenish; I want to cast as many as possible, each preceded by a sac of a grove and/or a Seal of Cleaning. I'm a little concerned about your mana. You are REALLY vulnerable to non-basic hate. What do you think about dropping blue? True, but not so great a problem as you might think. Nonbasic hate isn't very common in my meta. However, 1 plain might be a good idea for a Seal of Cleansing against a BtB or Blood Moon. On the other side, I can always draw the 1 white mana from a Pearl. On the other other side, I cannot fetch a Pearl with a Heath... Dropping blue is not an option for me. I really love Ancestral Recall, and 3 cards for 1 mana has to have a place in any deck that can support it. Also you suggest removing my strip effects for basic lands. A T1 deck without strips? That doesn't seem like a good idea. Like CooperP once said, an active Library can kill you. I've edited the decklist in the first post a little, but I'm still wondering which land should go for the 1 basic plain... |
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Eternal Formats / Creative / [DECK] T1 Enchantress - The Control version.
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on: August 04, 2004, 01:37:51 am
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Ivory Mask feels to slow to me, but I might be overestimating combo. Again, I'd prefer Orim's Chant or Root Maze. They both make a mess of combo and are easier to cast. Root maze is no help for Enchantress I believe. This is because Root Maze only slows Combo down. However, Enchantress itself is also a very slow deck. It takes time to get everything out, and even more time to create enough tokens to kill your opponent. I feel by then, combo will have had enough time to get their pieces in place. Have you got to try this deck against Draw 7 or Belcher or Dragon? How did it perform? No, Alas! =) Due to the summer holidays, everyone is on vacantion.  I expect to be able to post some results end of next month. All right; I took Overgrown Estate out, and placed a Words of Worship in. However, now I am doubting if Life-Gain is needed Mainboard. I've already got a Words of Worship sideboard, and if I cut the Life-Gain from the mainboard, I have room for an additional Replenish or Sylvan Library. But; Lifegain is usefull when dealing with a lot of Sylvan Library and City of Brass use... I'll have to test this. How do you feel about it? |
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Eternal Formats / Creative / [DECK] T1 Enchantress - The Control version.
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on: August 03, 2004, 12:22:10 pm
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I definitely wouldn't drop blue. It is probably better that even black in this deck. What I like in blue is
- Ancestral Recall
- Time Walk (even if it's not an enchantment, it has no down side)
- Energy Field (this is at least a Time Walk again most decks and is cheaper than Worship)
- Energy Flux (side again Workshop)
- Seal of Removal (for Sundering Titan and Darksteel Colossus and Worldgorger Dragon) Yeah, but I do not want to add to much blue. Either just the Recall, or no blue at all. City Of Brass is a card the deck needs anyway, so why not add 1 blue card. AR is worth it. I agree that Duress is incredible, but I'm not sure it's better than Orim's Chant. Maybe they're just different. Stifle is probably of equal power level in the current metagame. I believe Duress is a much better card. It draws out counters, which is what the deck needs (as the deck cannot counter myself). I also agree with pulling Overgrown Estates. There aren't many situations where Words of Worship wouldn't be better (especially with lots of Sylvan Libraries) Agree. Overgrown is out for WoW. You might also want to consider Engineered Explosives instead of Powder Keg. It's a lot faster Hmm. Thinking about it. What do others think? I would also look at replacing Aura Fracture, 1 Ivory Mask, and possibly City of Solitude. There aren't that many enchantments worth destroying right not (aside from Curiosity and Standstill in Fish). Artifact hosing would probably be better. With the 4 Groves, one Mask should be enough. You will also have problems getting to WW early so you can't depend on it for the first several turns. City of Solitude is really only useful against hard control. I can't think of any current deck that would make it worth a slot. I would probably prefer Opalescence for usefulness or Multani's Presence (because it's cheap). City is also an auto-loss again many decks. I need the Masks sideboard against Long and Academy. Hope for a Lotus and a Mask turn 1 on my hand against them =). Opalescende lacks synergy with Moat and The Abyss. Plus it makes my key-echantments vulnerable. Id definitely SB Multani's Presence, enormous bomb against control. I'll consider it. I'm still wondering what should go out for the third Sylvan Library and the fourth Replenish! EDIT: Law's post is already gone, so never mind =). |
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Eternal Formats / Creative / [DECK] T1 Enchantress - The Control version.
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on: August 03, 2004, 04:26:32 am
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Thanks everyone for the feedback, I hope we can bring this discussion as far was the last one.
I guess its a big no-no for Mana Drain, and certainly Words of Waste.
@cardiffgiant and Shadow-Walker:
You both have quite a different build than mine, and it like to stick to mine. I want to tweak the deck, not change it to another build.
@Rozetta: Thanks, your comment is quite usefull. =)
- I want to add a Library and a Replenish, but what should go to make room?
- Maybe I'll try with 1 Seal and 1 Aura.
- Ancestrall seems like a card that is worth splashing... Still in doubt on that one.
- Wake was a card I also had to think over twice. However, now it is seeming like a good idea to add one. It really fastens the kill.
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Eternal Formats / Creative / [DECK] T1 Enchantress - The Control version.
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on: August 02, 2004, 11:05:18 am
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Since the old topic was closed, here a new topic discusses the improvement of the Enchantress control deck. The old topic was here http://www.themanadrain.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=9304&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=enchantress&start=120For Card-by-Card analysis check there. My version currently: Kawaii.dec Mana: 1x Black Lotus 1x Mox Emerald 1x Mox Jet 1x Mox Pearl 1x Mox Sapphire 1x Sol Ring 3x Bayou 4x Savannah 1x Scrubland 1x Tundra 3x City of Brass 1x Library of Alexandria 1x Serra’s Sanctum 1x Strip Mine 2x Wasteland 4x Windswept Heath Draw: 4x Argothian Enchantress 2x Enchantress’s Presence 1x Ancestral Recall 2x Sylvan Library 1x Pursuit of Knowledge Utility: 1x The Abyss 1x Moat 1x Seal of Cleansing 1x Aura of Silence 1x Worship 1x Words of Worship 3x Duress 1x Words of Waste 1x Regrowth 1x Balance Kill: 2x Sacred Mesa 1x Mirari’s Wake Tutor + Recursion: 4x Sterling Grove 1x Demonic Tutor 3x Replenish Sideboard 1x Powder Keg 1x Mind Twist 2x Choke 1x City of Solitude 2x Ground Seal 1x Aura Fracture 2x Ivory Mask 1x Karmic Justice 1x Sacred Ground 1x Plains 2x Swords to Plowshares ----- Now the questions: - Mind Twist or Words of Waste mainboard? EDIT: Changed the deck to Words mainboard.- 3 or 4 Replenish? If 4, which card should leave? - Seal of Cleansing or Aura of Silence mainboard? Aura seems like a card that is really worth the extra mana. EDIT: I play both =)- Is it worth tweaking the mana base for Mana Drain? The ability to counter improves the match up for Combo a lot. - Any other suggestions? What do you think? |
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Eternal Formats / Creative / [Deck] Enchantress, a return to respectability?
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on: August 01, 2004, 03:09:53 pm
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Lol =) I'm sorry, but this just gets me laughing.
I don't even begin comparing my build (which is heavily control-based, and a modification of CooberP's primer) and your (Not-even optimal) aggro build...
It seems to me that YOUR build is kinda out of place here; check the old posts in this thread and CooberP's primer...
::EDITED FOR BETTER REPLY::
All right, lets look at your comments:
City of Brass: Very much needed for Colour-fixing, Overgrown Estate for life securing in the (extremely rare) cases that it puts you in danger.
Library of Alexandria: As stated before, you MUST have 7 cards in your hand each turn. And believe me; you are NOT going to draw half your library in 2 turns. Not if you're playing against a decent deck.
The Abyss: How does it bring disadvantage to me? Enchantress can't be targeted and when stacked right, Mesa's sacced token can be the target for Abyss...
Mirari's Wake: One of the cards I held in doubt, it really fastens the kill.
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Eternal Formats / Creative / [Deck] Enchantress, a return to respectability?
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on: July 31, 2004, 06:26:16 am
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Sorry for bumping an old thread, but hey, its better then starting a new one, isn't it =) Anyway; my version currently: Kawaii.dec( also found here: http://www.nedermagic.nl/deck_item.asp?deckid=16367 ) Mana:1x Black Lotus 1x Mox Emerald 1x Mox Jet 1x Mox Pearl 1x Mox Sapphire 1x Sol Ring 3x Bayou 4x Savannah 1x Scrubland 1x Tundra 3x City of Brass 1x Library of Alexandria 1x Serra’s Sanctum 1x Strip Mine 2x Wasteland 4x Windswept Heath Draw:4x Argothian Enchantress 2x Enchantress’s Presence 1x Ancestral Recall 2x Sylvan Library 1x Pursuit of Knowledge Utility:1x The Abyss 1x Moat 2x Seal of Cleansing 1x Worship 1x Overgrown Estate 3x Duress 1x Mind Twist 1x Regrowth 1x Balance Kill:2x Sacred Mesa 1x Mirari’s Wake Tutor + Recursion:4x Sterling Grove 1x Demonic Tutor 3x Replenish Sideboard 1x Powder Keg 1x Words of Waste 2x Choke 1x City of Solitude 2x Ground Seal 1x Aura Fracture 2x Ivory Mask 1x Karmic Justice 1x Sacred Ground 1x Words of Worship 2x Swords to Plowshares ----- Now the questions: - Mind Twist or Words of Waste mainboard? - 3 or 4 Replenish? If 4, which card should leave? - Seal of Cleansing or Aura of Silence mainboard? Aura seems like a card that is really worth the extra mana. - Any other suggestions? What do you think? |
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