This is a list I have been playing with for a long time. I have clocked my fasted win on turn 3. Though it helps when it has more power to it. As I built this mostly for fun. While it uses lots of the ideas that people have put up here it uses a few most people would not use. But it can be hated out prety easily as well.

Lands 14
14 Forest

Creatures 30
4 Priest of Titania
4 Skyshroud Elf
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Quirion Ranger
2 Wellwisher
4 Wirewood herald
4 Wirewood hivemaster
4 Fyndhorn Elves

Other 16
4 Skullclamp
4 Kaervek's Torch
4 Instill Energy
4 Staff of Domination

If this was to be made more type 1 the wellwishers would be the first to go. But t=given that this deck was build for fun and not much else take at you wish. Though I seem to have many people ask if its the elf deck (like they do if its my oath lol).

If anything this might give a few ideas. Instill Energy is just nuts haste and an untap cant beat that by much .

Though I still find it cool that a guy from my area made it to the top 4. It is the first time he went to such a bif event I think. To bad I could not go (nor did his grop invite me). But it also does make it more fun when I beat him down at the type 1 FNM the week after that comp (namely last fryday). Just got to love how things work out .

Plus I do see someone played against Jhon and posted it.


But what I have seen of the event it looked like it was a ball.

I could see it as a one of in maby oath given that it comes ative after the turn that oath hits play to protect it and the creature it brings up. But thats a trully slime chance given that its casting cost is what trully lowers how much of an effect it will have.

Spell Snare shows more promice to be a card that will show up more. Even the new UG duel has more of a chance to be used in a deck that I can see.


The card has power and is good. It just lackes the punch needed to do well in type 1.

I could see that happening Draven. Maby a U/G one that focuses of control more as well? But time will tell if it will trully work.

My thinking is yes it will see play in type 1. Against a few decks it is just as good as strip mine. Plus it could act as a fetch if need be.

In short yes, but it will take a little time before it finds a home.

I have found and tested a little (not much) with a creature that works well if you do not see STP much. Blazing Archon stops there aggro guys, plus he is hard to kill in most cases.

He is in my side vs FCG but I need to truly get my vearshon of the deck built and play VS FCG to see how well he trully works. But it is up to you guys and your own testing to see how well he works.

How about this I am an evolving MTG player. This is how it has gone since I started into type 1:

W/G Enchantress -> Affinity -> Tempo based decks (R/G, R/W, ect...) -> Budget oath

Thats how its been for the last two years. Right though I am still working on getting the oath together but it is almost in a working form.

Though its nice that each time I change decks it has been a step up. When I played affinity I came in 2nd twice at my local tournament. With the tempo based decks (R/G so far) I won one so far. But I hope once I get the oath together I will win alot more (given that I have such a odd type 1 meta).

But I dont think of myself as a generalist or a specialist at this point. I am more of a learning player then anything. Though its fun watching how each of the decks I have played where a step then the last one. Plus it also helps that a few of the cards I picked up at one stage help in the next.

I am a Pure Spike. Though I think I fit all the subgroups a little. As I tinker with decks, try and come up with my own, and well winning is cool.

But then again it could just be all the type 1 getting to me on how I see cards.

How do you feel 1 Pentavus would do in place of one Triskelion. Though this is more likely a move into a more aggro/slaver looking deck by just adding the Pentavite maker. But given that if it gets out and you have more then one welder in play it could make cap/anything you need from the yard easier to get.

Plus it beats for 5 which is nice.


Though I can see that its weeknesses over the Triskelion might make it not wanted. Namely it costs one more and cannot ping things.


Other cards I could see helping the deck in some way (more fit in alot less then 1 Pentavus).

Pithing Needle
Sensei's Divining Top

Just to splash a few ideas on here.


But the deck also looks very solid. I rember playing like two games vs someone playing a cap. I lost both games to the cap (playing a budget oath with I am slowly building). But I always loved Jcap though never could use it in a deck. Still can not but it is nice that someone has found a way to use such a lovely card.


@Evenpence: Thats the way I can see this deck going. It might end up looking like a melding of Stax and Workshop aggro with Jcaps in the end. But so long as it works and wins thats what counts.

49 it all comes down to the fact that I want them to waste there counters. You want them to site there and clog up there hand. Differing ideas on how to run the deck.

You want them to go to sleep while you play.

I want them to wake up and go all crap.

Unlike other decks that try to just say something else. (Like no for Stax, look at this in oath, or stop this in storm combo.) Each deck has a message thats part of the strategy. As much as people no not notice it is there. You make your oppont do serton things based off that message. Each are right to serton people and they play it that way. Thats just something I have noticed over the last 7 years (when I first started).


So making them waste counters and spells trying to stop you = good.
Make them not care can also be good.

Though you must under stand I feel if they woke up and spoted what you where doing they would just stop you. As a matter of fact most of the people I seem to run into in real life and MWS are willing to stop anything so long as its slows or stops your plan.

So you solved that. You run nothing that they wont like  :lol:. Smart I would say. (End any bit of messing around there.)

Helix was one of the cards I did a little testing with a while back. Its bonus was just not big enough to stick around. Jet was added after I played against the maker of TMWA on MWS. My deck vs TMWA is about 50/50 those three games. As odd as that sounds thats how it felt. Yes thats when I was running a different card then jet.

Once I added jet though I maxed out the beliver given that having 4 jet did not make much sence. The has been working well on MWS. But its MWS and thats why I need to see how the deck really can play out before I make any changes.

49 Cents that one is all aggro which should just die even in my meta. All creatures should do something more then just beat. They all need a trick something to help you win. Lions just beat well cheep does not do it fast enough. Plus burning the crap out of someone has proven to be a crapy plan. Well unless you can pull 13 damage 1st turn  :lol:. But that trick can be stoped buy a FoW.

Plus I do not like just trying to beat the crap out of them and burning them with out some way of slowing them down past Chalice of the Void.

Ya so they can drain Null Rod they can drain almost everthing in the deck and win from that. Thats if I do not through down something else to mess with there plans next turn.

But that deck looks like its lacking control and the ability to stand up. But thats just me. Plus they are different decks and run as such.

First strike is the key thing you think will help. Then how about Longbow Archer can also block flying creatures. Plus I have 4 and will not need to get two more.

Powered Erayo control <- that is why I have not taken them out of the deck and left them to site in my type 1 box. Plus the one that plays the Powered G/R madness sometime shows up with a reanimater and he runs legends. Plus the few that ae run in FCG I could deal with.

Lastly they can save my kataki if anything from dieing after damage is on the stack. Old school trick but still one that could creep up.


On the silver knights that could be good. But I was thinking of running 3 Absolute Law in my sidebord. Nothing like a blanket effect to make everything pro red. Might mess with the lavamancers some but its also an idea.

Though just so you know this deck if it does well will hold be untile I am done building the budget oath. Which should just rock the meta. But thats still a while away from being done. Though this is the most talk about the deck then it has had in a very long time. Its been in close to this shape for over a year doing what it was in part to do. Kill workshop and artifact based decks. It might not be as soldid a kill as it could be but if any one ever shows up with a workshop based deck I stand the best chance of killing it.

Thats if the guy that was playing the W/R weeny did not adjust his deck to what I have (I showed him my list).

But I need to get some real game time with it still to get fully up to speed with it. Given that MWS can mess with how the deck can truly flow. Either giving me to much of the cards I need or just screwing me.

It might sound good. But it does not look right though. Im happy see as many copys as I can of most of the creatures in the deck. Since I have gone through 3 shamans in a game and all three Kataki's since he knew if one stayed in play his plan would be over.

The decks that should be somehwat random are those that do broken things. This deck does not do that, so it needs as many copys of the cards that can speed the game to a win. Plus I do not like twisting a deck till it falls a part. It does work shockly well as I had it at the start.

I know what ever I say is most likely not worth crap but the best way to see if something works as is, is give it a try. With each change you make to the deck more and more it looks like TMWA. Yes the decks have things in common but past they are different decks.


But hearth Kami is a good idea one that I could squeeze two into the deck in a snap I can already think of two cards I can remove one of and fit them in. Plus I do need to play the deck for real before I trully make any changes. Plus I need to keep my home meta in mind as well. Has that sliped your mind? Did you skip that part?

That sounds better. Though I still need to pick up two of the kami. Though it would also mean that CotV can hate me out even more if its set at two. But thats what the sidebord is for  . But only time will tell how it trully works even as it stands now.

More artifact hate could be good. Though so far I have found that the deck can just take out almost any arifact. Let me list what the deck has already to take out artifacts:

Kataki, War's Wage (slows them down/blows things up)
Null Rod (shuts stuff down makeing them more likely to be blown away with kataki)
Gorilla Shaman (Blows up miner stuff when nothing else is there)
Seal of Cleansing (gets rid of anything I would want to get rid of)

In all thats already alot of artifact hate. By adding even more it will become to focused on killing arifacts I think.

Goblin Legionnaire's biggest advantage is that he can sneak through that last two points of damage. He also take out Mishra's factory's if hes the one blocking it (unless they have 4 of them out).


But im not saying you said is a bad idea just that its one that might not be needed. Plus I need to pick up two more Hearth Kami's before I can test it at all. I just hate these hard to get commons...

True but I have a bunch of ways to shut down moxes already. Why add more mox hate when there are like 3 differing ways to dump them from doing anything. Plus I hardly care to hate out the moxes on purpose most of the time. I do it only when it would put me farther in front.

Plus freezing moxes with rod and then letting them either get rid or slow themselves down by saving them when Katki is in play. Then again the might just let them die. Which im happy with and if Shaman hits play and neather of those two are then I will just get rid of moxes.

In short I dont care about there moxes much anyway. Since I can deal with them enough already. So shutting down alot more things with Null Rod is what I want anyway. Mox hate should not be part of the mager plan but I side effect of it. If a deck cannot do that then it is not worth really good testing.

Edit: Though rod is in there mostly to harm manabases anyway. Just it can hit more the CotV can for the deck. Stoping moxes alone is not just the only reason you should run a card.

I am using Seal of Cleansing maindeck plus like I sad that was what I was using at that time. Disenchant would just add more more of them a reason to set it at two.

Chalice of the Void is more likely to shut down half of the deck. That is just not good for the deck over all. Yes chalice is good but its as much a problem to the deck as it is to many other decks of a similar types. Anything that harms the deck you are using more then it harms other decks is not worth playing.

This deck is buy no means TMWA though it is in the same colors. This deck tries to do the same things but at a slightly angel in how it does it. It is trying to slow/lock them long enough to beat them into the ground. While TMWA looks like it is trying to race a lot of the decks with its own speed. In short the deck is trying to win by gaining tempo while beating there face in. Here is the deck before I say anything else:

Deck Type: Agro countrol

Ruby Red (R/W tempo)
Lands 20
2 Mountain
2 Windswept Heath
2 Plains
4 Plateau
1 Strip Mine
4 Wasteland
3 Wooded Foothills
2 Karakas

Creatures 18
4 Goblin Legionnaire
4 Gorilla Shaman
4 Grim Lavamancer
4 True Believer
3 Kataki, War's Wage

Spells 22
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Seal of Cleansing
3 Null Rod
3 Magma Jet
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby

Sideboard 15 (this is what I used when I was testing but this as always is really open to change)
4 Red Elemental Blast
4 Sacred Ground
4 Erase
3 Rule of Law

As you can see it does use some of the same cards but it is using many that TMWA would not given that it is not trying to out lay them as much as kill them.

Before I go on to saying why I picked each card I have build in as many stop welder spells as I could without compromising how the deck should run. The stop welders are Goblin Legionnaire, Grim Lavamancer, Swords to Plowshares, Lightning Bolt, and Magma Jet. While these cards are not just here to take out welder they can and have in what testing I can do on MWS.

The cards themselves
Since some of the cards in the mana base are well if your not running them the deck will not work. So ill go over the cards that seem odd.

Karakas: Helps deal with Oath in some form. I know it does not work against all oath decks now will it most likely get more then one use. But having it does mean it stands that much more of a chance so the deck can win.

Goblin Legionnaire: He is a beater, removal, and a way to sneak in that last few points of damage. His white ability has not been used much but that is from the fact it is not that useful. Yes he is an odd pick but he is also the one card that inspired the whole deck. Even though he was not used in the first version of it he was quickly added since he is better then both Mogg Fanatic and Icatian Javelineers. Though he costs twice as much and you need red to use it, though since he was added he has not let me down.

Gorilla Shaman: Kills moxes, artifact lands, and low grade artifact mana acceleration. He might seem limited in what he does but it should never be dead since he can help with the beat down.

Grim Lavamancer: Takes out any number of things, can single handily take out a few deck types is he hits play, can help take out bigger creatures when blocking, and reuses cards that I already used. He does all those things and can attack for one if need be.

True Believer: He can stop combo, many discard effects, and helps with the beat down. Though his double while sometimes can make him un cast able he becomes a speed bump that many decks need to deal with.

Kataki, War’s Wage: He can single handily take down stax if he gets into play with shaman and rod back up. He even turn lower grade artifact decks into speed bumps if he hits play.

Swords to Plowshares: Can help deal with oath and takes out other threats. A standard for any deck that runs white in type 1, that’s a fact.

Lightning Bolt: With all the hate against welder running lava dart is not needed I think. Plus this can also help get the last few points through as well as take out bigger creatures that might slow down the game plan. But if I knew that the meta was currently just using welders as the creature I would use the lava dart. Even if it could strain the mana base a little.

Seal of Cleansing: This is a cast and hold Disenchant even if some times its used the moment it comes into play. The fact that it can site around and hold out until it is needed has already been helpful.

Null Rod: Shuts down power, stops slaver, and it can shut down decks ability to move. Though you might say why run these when kataki is in the deck, they work as much as a team about as much as they do not work together.

Magma Jet: The newest card in the deck as far as testing goes. So far it has added more threats to the deck and can help dig down two cards.

Sideboard: This is still be adjusted but as it stands now is trying to help beat oath and make the stax match up easier. It still needs work though as should change over time anyway.

Match ups
Note: These are based on what I see on MWS so it is not what I call real testing. I need to see the deck in real life before I can fully see the deck work. Plus this was a while ago so the tops decks have most likely changed enough to make this deck less of a problem to them.

All Stax builds: It comes down to who can lock the other first. I have had people give up before they even started when I placed kataki into play first turn.

All Oath builds: Being one of the harder match ups it takes as much luck and knowing what build they are playing. Dealing with oath is an art form I am only starting to learn with the deck. If you have no idea how to handle there deck you lose most of the time.

Fish: The deck is about even when facing fish U/W is the hardest so far. Given that if mage was called on something that would let you to start to control there deck they can slow you down long enough to at least get a head of the game.

Control Slaver: With the small amount I have played against. This deck seams to use a lot of the stax hate plus True Believer to stop it. Given them a really hard time.

Food Chain Goblins: Yet again this is a real hard game to play. If they can play out before you can slow there growth it is over. This match up can even be harder then oath half the time and easier the other half depending if the player knows what they are doing.

Random Agro: The deck can just kill most of the random stuff. Though some times they can wil by trowing down alot of large creatures more then the deck can stop fast enough. But most of the time it is an easy win.


This deck still needs more testing and game time. I know that since it always will any good deck needs as much game time as it can get in order to be adjusted to what is coming. But one guy can only test so much with out getting bored. I am always looking for ideas, other peoples testing, and hoping the next set will bring the one card that this deck will need to truly shine.


The deck and my meta:

Given that the deck is still under testing and if I put it together I would be three duel lands short (plus power). It might have a few slow downs here and there. But given that if I did put it together heres what it would need to face:

1 Powered G/R madness
1 Powered Erayo control 
1 Powered U/B control (Kind of slow for its type though)
1 Powered FCG
1 Mono Blue Storm Combo (using brain freeze to kill by decking)
2 Affinity
1 W/R weenie
1 W/B Sui
1 Mono Blue Control
1 Phasing lock deck
1 U/W fish
1 Ten Land Stompy
2 Random junk decks

Yes there are a few more decks in the meta then that. But this is a large sampling of what I am up against. It’s scrubby and random so its hard to sideboard against most of the time. Plus only a few of the decks are played all the time. It has a habit of changing as people try differing things and the fact that some people will not always be there.

But in any case would the deck hold up well against that type of meta?

Theres always that one thing you miss when you play a deck the you miss. That is the type of info that I needed for the next time I do a run with the deck (online and otherwise).
This should have been a private message.
-Jacob

Princes of the Universe (by Queen) could be mine. For some reason that song seems to work for me.

The main problem with the druid win is this XIII. You have one turn to deal 20+ damage before you lose the game. How do I know this I play tested a Hermit Druid vershon that lunar put up on the web in a MTGS article.

The build he had in there I found needed more then one DSC to give you two turns to kill. While I did not test to see if it would have worked better with the extra DSC in it. In theory thats one thing that the deck needs if you cant get all the damage that first turn. That is just what I found with Hermit Druid in the deck.


Though I am not saying he would be bad for the deck. Im just saying any build that uses him must be ready to either have 1 turn to win. But that the deck could also then be adjusted to give a little more time to give a chance to mop up a Non lethal first wave.

CA

Comic Quest

28 East State ST.
Redlands, CA 92373
Phone: (909) 798-1262
Email: info@thecomicquest.com

Unlike other decks, this deck and what I commonly use (R/G, WW) both ensure each creature must do something, such as:  Kill welders (and other things), draw cards, etc.

Everyone must open their eyes and see what can be done with the deck, such as using Back to Basics in a fish build (adjusting the manabase to not be harmed by it so much).  It would be different and help boost the tempo of the deck somewhat.

The thing is, people need to be willing to adjust and be innovative.  You need to be in the tempo mindset with this deck now, moreso than the other fish decks.  This deck cannot build itself so you need to think carefully of what each card can do and why it needs to do it.  I'm not too good with fish but after having built a deck from the ground up (the R/G) with each piece adding to how well the deck works you see how tempo needs to pan out.  The cards I think should be in U/R fish are close to what Tim put up (if I build the deck there might be a few changes) but the idea needs to be the same.

Also, you need to think like a tempo player.  It is a different mindset than most, but if you play the deck enough and are paying attention to what you can do in any given moment you will just learn it.

This is just a little thing I felt I had to say, even if it's just a little off topic.

Edited for spelling and grammar.  If I lost anything in translation, feel free to PM me.  Please proofread your posts before you click the button.
-Kowal[/color]

Heres a WW deck that has gone through some testing. So far it seems it can take on all the top decks. Though for some reason it has problems with the decks right below (FCG, R/G Beats, ect...). But thats what sidebords are for anyway.

If anything at least use the deck for ideas for yours.

Lands 21
2 Karakas
10 Plains
1 Strip Mine
4 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath

Creatures 19
4 Icatian Javelineers
3 Kataki, War's Wage
4 True Believer
4 Samurai of the Pale Curtain
4 Weathered Wayfarer

Spells 20
1 Mox Pearl
1 Black Lotus
3 Pithing Needle
3 Orim's Chant
4 Seal of Cleansing
1 Enlightened Tutor
3 Null Rod
4 Swords to Plowshares

I have played supa_Tim's build of the deck for a little while (almost done building it too) and given that all the cards can do something to help win. The deck plays fast and has a slight learning curve since the deck can do so much. But just play the deck and learn what it can do. Since it does have alot more tricks it can pull off then the build you posted. Also when you build the deck make serton any adjustments you make, make serton that they work well.

Only real change I have made myself was instead of the extra lands I added to the deck two Magma Jet to the deck instead.

In the short time I used Chalice in my R/G deck it did nothing for me. While this might seem stupid the mox monkey kept working faster since I kept drawing into it more. Yes sounds stupid might be stupid but the moenky just seemed to do more for me.

So in my eyes I would not use it.

With only 1 Jitte in the deck it did not see it in play. So ill try again when I get more. Well for the gear anyway.