[Deck] The Jester - Tourney Report moved to proper forum

[yespuhyren]

As a starter, I played on MWS against a lot of people today, but most noticeably 5 people were playing Colby's list +/- a few cards, and a lot of people were playing Smenenenenenenen's Ichorid concoction.  I asked them everytime, and they said that they got their ideas for TMD.  This proves how influential our site is to new people, and obviously they liked this and the ichorid list.

Feel Free to post a new thread with your current Staxless decklist.  This is your baby, not mine.  I'll post on it right after you create it that it was your basic fundamental ideas that led me to a double T8 in Richmond.  Give the archetype a whole new name, and don't rely upon Uba for anything.

Make it BazaarCap or something like that.  I don't care what name you use, but make it so different that people HAVE to refer to it as it's own entity, and not on the back of Ubastax.  Vroman had nothing to do with this deck, it's all you, so make a unique name to fit it.

Good work, by the way, and I hope to do some work with you on the future.  Right now, I'm sorta swamped, but I'll get out of it.

Colby

I would also like to give MAD props to Colby Evenpence for T8'ing 2 days in a row, winning 2 pieces of power with different versions of the deck, not to mention that he had barely playtested the deck, and didn't have nearly as much experience with the deck as he would have liked to.  This really shows the strength of the deck, though moreso the strengh of its pilot in my opinion.  Without you, me posting this thread would be useless.  Thanks to your results, people will now listen to me.  You rock man!

This is a link to his tourney report : http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=27662.0

Definitely worth a read, its very well written.

Now, on to the decklist

The Jester - Most Recent Decklist - April 9 - 7:45 PM

First of all, I'm going to start terming the pieces

Important pieces AKA the new 47 (same as ubastax, just -4 smoky +4 Caps)

21 lands
9 artifact mana
4 Cap
4 Crucible
4 Welder
4 Chalice
1 Trinisphere

SO like UbaStax, this is the new 47

Therefore, my current Jester list is

47
4 Tangle Wire
4 Uba Mask
1 Karn
4 Granite Shard

// Sideboard
SB: 3  Shattering Spree- FU STAXZ|!
SB: 4  Pyrostatic Pillar - FU COMBO!
SB: 4  Tormod's Crypt - FU EVERYONE!
SB: 4  Goblin Bombardment - FU OATH!


This deck is extremely powerful, and has branched off Uba Stax.  I started testing Jester's Cap and removing the Null Rods first on December 3rd 2005, at the Ontario Vintage Championships.  It had tested very well for me, but I was much less confident then than I am now, and was persuaded to take the Caps out and put the Null Rods back in.  More recently, I have become much more sure of myself, as my ideas have been taken more wholeheartedly recently.
(Thank you Evenpence, one of the FEW who actually TESTED my ideas.  This is probably why they didn't get turned down so quickly, as most people probably just assume the outcome of cards before testing)

So recently I decided to attempt to put the list back together.  4 Jester's Caps, although I went down to 3 playing with Evenpence, later on that night I went back up to 4 again because of how strong they are.

The biggest difference between the current list of The Jester and the list that Colby used at SCG P9 is that he ran Smoky's, I did not.

Smoky, and moreso Stax/UbaStax is meant to drop soft locks until it can hard lock the opponent.  This is FAR from the point of The Jester, and I rarely want to lock my opponent out of the game.  The point of this deck is to uUse Jester's Cap to remove all relevant threats (remember cap can be reused via-welder)

It keeps a lot of the mainstay pieces, keeping


Hopefully you enjoy the deck, and realize how strong the deck really can be.  Colby and I will surely be working together on this and other decks to bring you guys in the future   

[Evenpence]

Just as a recap, with an unoptimized version of the deck, in 26 wins, 14 of them were because of Jester's Cap.  This was with 3 in the MD for 6 of the wins, and 2 in the MD for 8 of the wins.  This was completely Yesphuyren's idea, and like I said, good local players are about who do not post on TMD.  This deck is far from optimized (I have some suggestions for the build that I'll get to when I don't need to do so much stuff), but it's a house against the format right now.  This deck should be used when you expect to see a good amount of combo and especially Gifts.

The deck is very versatile, so much to the point of being able to add in Juggernauts (my second day list, which technically performed better than day 1).  The deck might become more workshop aggro than Yespuhyren originally intended, but that's fine.  A draw engine other than Bazaar (Intution) is also reliable, as you also get a second color which might be worth it.

Also, one of the things that I found to like about the deck is that it hedges it's bets very well.  While Jester's Cap is a house against Combo-like decks, (Gifts included), it can also win through just straight up Artifact Fatties, like Triskelion or Karn.  I find myself actually winning alot with Triskelion Day 1, and wanted to improve the chance of winning/pressuring against opponents Day 2, and that's why I wanted to add in Juggernauts.  BOTH gambles paid off.

[Law]

How do you feel 1 Pentavus would do in place of one Triskelion. Though this is more likely a move into a more aggro/slaver looking deck by just adding the Pentavite maker. But given that if it gets out and you have more then one welder in play it could make cap/anything you need from the yard easier to get.

Plus it beats for 5 which is nice.


Though I can see that its weeknesses over the Triskelion might make it not wanted. Namely it costs one more and cannot ping things.


Other cards I could see helping the deck in some way (more fit in alot less then 1 Pentavus).

Pithing Needle
Sensei's Divining Top

Just to splash a few ideas on here.


But the deck also looks very solid. I rember playing like two games vs someone playing a cap. I lost both games to the cap (playing a budget oath with I am slowly building). But I always loved Jcap though never could use it in a deck. Still can not but it is nice that someone has found a way to use such a lovely card.


@Evenpence: Thats the way I can see this deck going. It might end up looking like a melding of Stax and Workshop aggro with Jcaps in the end. But so long as it works and wins thats what counts.

[yespuhyren]

The deck is very versatile, so much to the point of being able to add in Juggernauts (my second day list, which technically performed better than day 1).  The deck might become more workshop aggro than Yespuhyren originally intended, but that's fine.

Other than this deck, I am primarily a Workshop Aggro player.  I have played Workshop aggro in every vintage tournament I played in, and if we could find a way to make this a workshop aggro deck I would be more than happy to . Also, any suggestions you have, just PM them to me.

I have tested with it being a workshop aggro deck (Basically -4 Wire, +4 Juggs) and was also happy with it. 

[vartemis]

After tweaking the deck I played in Hamilton on Saturday with some ideas I had been playtesting earlier, here is the stax variant I came up with for my meta.

// Artifacts
        4 Chalice of the Void
        4 Crucible of Worlds
        3 Jester's Cap
        1 Mana Crypt
        1 Mana Vault
        2 Null Rod
        3 Smokestack
        1 Sol Ring
        1 Trinisphere
        3 Uba Mask
        1 Black Lotus
        1 Mox Emerald
        1 Mox Jet
        1 Mox Pearl
        1 Mox Ruby
        1 Mox Sapphire
// Creatures
        2 Duplicant
        1 Karn, Silver Golem
        4 Goblin Welder
// Enchantments
        2 Seal of Cleansing
// Spells
        1 Enlightened Tutor
// Lands
        2 Darksteel Citadel
        2 Barbarian Ring
        4 Bazaar of Baghdad
        4 Mishra's Workshop
        4 Plateau
        1 Strip Mine
        4 Wasteland
// Sideboard
SB:  2 Granite Shard
SB:  2 Null Rod
SB:  4 Pyroblast
SB:  1 Seal of Cleansing
SB:  3 Shattering Spree
SB:  3 Swords to Plowshares

I am glad someone else has been pushing to get caps maindecked in a workshop deck.  I always put them in my sideboard for 5C, and really wish they had been in my Uba last weekend.  The main thing that has worked for me is sort of along the lines of what Law was saying.  You need a way to easily recur your cap in the event of it being countered and long term card advantage, without sacrificing much needed permanents.  Pentivus would work well, but I think that we can borrow another idea from Slaver; Darksteel Citadel.  With 4 crucibles, it should be fairly easy to keep recurring.  I cut my tolarian (gasp!) for it, and havent looked back.  I found the mana from tolarian was never the right amount for what I needed, and late game it became totally useless as I had enough workshops/artifact mana to cast what I want. I have been testing dropping down to 2 B-rings or 3 Wastelands, although in your mono red version you could easily drop down to 3 B-rings to give you 2 of these.  With an active welder, you can play the Citadel from the yard, tap it, weld it into a cap, and tap a land or mox and activate the cap.  Reapeat it every turn, and all it costs is a land drop and 1 mana. It also allows you to recur any artifact in the grave, and it can't be wasted (trust me, I tried once and no one will let me forget it ).

I can't really say anything else about the deck as I haven't tested it.  I play a more control style, and enjoy the versatility of almost always having a decent turn 1-2 power drop with stack, cap, rod, or uba.  I have also debating cutting the b-rings altogether.  I often mulligan to get a quick ubazaar set up, and most of my sacs to the stack are lands that I can replay them with crucible, unless I have multiples of something in play I dont need (like 3 crucibles).  I often find difficulty getting threshold.  I can get close, with 4, 5, or even 6 cards, but then I get ubazaar online and everything starts being removed.  By cutting down my b-rings, I find I dont end up drawing them till mid game, when I have a better chance at getting threshold.  If I cut down my ubas to 2 or 3, then I would up my b-rings as I have a better chance of bazaaring without an uba to stop the discard.

I love the idea, and will definitely try it out.  PM me to let me know where abouts in Ontario you are.  I play in London.

j

[yespuhyren]

First of all, you have 2 MD null rods and 2 SB null rods.  The deck has 3 caps, a Karn and 2 artifact lands which you would shut down if you play a Null Rod.  With 4 (When you side them in)  You are effectively playing with a lot of dead cards when you are playing with Null Rods, and you can't side them all out when you want to go with the 4 rods

Your are basically playing WRuba stax, though as you'll see my deck has cut the smokestacks.  I abandoned that plan to go with Trikes for elimination and go with a stronger Jester's Cap theme.  I have a strong feeling this will be pushed even more to workshop aggro, which would make me super happy, as I'm ALWAYS tweaking shop aggro decks to try and make them viable.  The other good thing about this being shop aggro, is it has a great draw (Ubazaar) and you can keep pumping out creatures, and that would definitely merit the inclusion of Lightning Greaves if we can fit them in, though that is another story, another day that Evenpence and I will have to discuss   

I play in Toronto btw.

[vartemis]

First of all, you have 2 MD null rods and 2 SB null rods.  The deck has 3 caps, a Karn and 2 artifact lands which you would shut down if you play a Null Rod.  With 4 (When you side them in)  You are effectively playing with a lot of dead cards when you are playing with Null Rods, and you can't side them all out when you want to go with the 4 rods

I am only running 2 maindecked null rods to essentially be dropped right away to stall, or to be fetched when needed. I often weld them out for other things, or just sac them to the stax when ramped. One of my favorite plays is to weld out the null rod for the cap against combo.  The null rod slows em down until I can get a cap, and then I swap it at the best opportunity.  I am only runnin 1 Karn, and he is used mid to late game, after the null rods have lost their use.  Once again, stall with the rods and build up a nice pile of permanents, then weld it out or sac it to the stax and swing away. I bring in the other two against slaver, and I usually end up siding out my caps for the remaining rods and pyroblasts, or swords if they have a collosus, platz, or pentivus.  I have even used a spree or seal to kill my own null rod, much to my opponents suprise and suddenly swing with a bunch of 3/3's and 4/4's.  I like this set up right now because It allows me to go from control to aggro out of no where.  I just have to figure out how to get another Karn in somehow, but that will be for my thread, not to clutter up yours .

Your are basically playing WRuba stax, though as you'll see my deck has cut the smokestacks.  I abandoned that plan to go with Trikes for elimination and go with a stronger Jester's Cap theme.

Yes, it is stax.  I posted my complete decklist and sideboard so you could see my ideas within the context of how I'm usuing them.  Without any basis, you could rightfully assume I'm talking out of my ass.

I have a strong feeling this will be pushed even more to workshop aggro, which would make me super happy, as I'm ALWAYS tweaking shop aggro decks to try and make them viable.  The other good thing about this being shop aggro, is it has a great draw (Ubazaar) and you can keep pumping out creatures, and that would definitely merit the inclusion of Lightning Greaves if we can fit them in, though that is another story, another day that Evenpence and I will have to discuss   

have you thought about splashing blue?  You could replace the rings with Cephalid Coliseums. I have wanted to use these with Uba for quite a while.  First it works great for you because it can net you 3 cards instead of 2.  You can also screw your opponent EOT, causing them to discard 3 cards and/or remove a random 3 from the game when they are tapped out.  You are running 3 Trikes main and 1 SB, so I think that is enough welder hate.  What would you use the rings for that you couldnt accomplish with the trikes?

It also gives you access to fire/ice for 1/1 kill if you feel you need more, and it doubles to tap out a collossus for that one extra turn you need for a lethal swing.

j

[yespuhyren]

As good as the blue splash might be, I would be very hesitant to go down to less than 4 Barbarian Rings.  The card is just so good as spot removal, and a good finisher if needs be, that I wouldn't want to water down the mana base, even playing workshop aggro.

[Evenpence]

There are two ways of taking this deck, as I see it: 

1)  A completely new, revolutionary idea centering around RFGing cards from the game.  This idea is insanely powerful if we can pull it off.  Cards like Wheel of Fortune are extremely important here, because of Uba Mask.  It's important to realize that with Barbarian Ring / Crucible of Worlds / Goblin Welder / Fatties etc etc that we will always have a ton of win conditions, so the mirror will be long and arduous.  Uba Masks would be a staple here, obviously.  Wheel of Fortune type abilities are huge.  The deck can revolve around Winds of Change to RFG our opponent's hand from the game with Uba Mask, Jester's Cap to remove specific win conditions, and Tormod's Crypt to remove his graveyard.  This is my sample list for RFG Jester:

RFG JESTER

// Lands
    1  Tolarian Academy
    1  Strip Mine
    4  Mishra's Workshop
    4  Bazaar of Baghdad
    2  Mountain
    4  Wasteland
    4  Barbarian Ring

// Creatures
    4  Goblin Welder
    2  Triskelion
    1  Karn, Silver Golem

// Spells
    4  Uba Mask
    1  Mana Crypt
    1  Mox Emerald
    1  Mana Vault
    1  Grim Monolith
    1  Mox Jet
    1  Mox Pearl
    1  Mox Ruby
    1  Mox Sapphire
    1  Black Lotus
    1  Sol Ring
    1  Trinisphere
    1  Wheel of Fortune
    1  Tormod's Crypt
    4  Crucible of Worlds
    4  Tangle Wire
    4  Jester's Cap
    4  Winds of Change

RFG Jester has alot of potential, but this list currently isn't really all that good.  You'll notice I took the Chalices out, which is a mistake, but when you can't set Chalice at 1 very reliably (Winds o' Change), you can't really do much.  Winds of Change is such a huge card because you can completely screw a blue-based control player over.  They form and craft their hand, and then you hit them with Winds o' Change.  It's so tech. 

EDIT:  Oh yeah, I hear Memory Jar is pretty good too.

The second list is Cap Aggro

JESTER AGGRO

// Lands
    1  Tolarian Academy
    1  Strip Mine
    4  Mishra's Workshop
    4  Bazaar of Baghdad
    3  Mountain
    4  Wasteland
    4  Barbarian Ring

// Creatures
    4  Goblin Welder
    4  Juggernaut
    3  Triskelion
    2  Karn, Silver Golem

// Spells
    1  Mana Crypt
    1  Mox Emerald
    1  Mana Vault
    1  Mox Jet
    1  Mox Pearl
    1  Mox Ruby
    1  Mox Sapphire
    1  Black Lotus
    1  Sol Ring
    1  Trinisphere
    4  Crucible of Worlds
    4  Chalice of the Void
    4  Jester's Cap
    4  Tangle Wire

This version is identical to Yespuhyren's version, with no Uba Masks and many Juggernauts.  If we still want Uba Masks (they're really not that important in this version) then we could do 2 Uba Mask (or possibly 3) with 3 Tangle Wires, 3 Juggernauts, and 1 Karn.  Karn isn't as important when you have Juggs.

SUPER EDIT:

Adding the two might be the best idea yet, because we need a way to take care of permanents once they're already on the board, locking them down isn't as important as stopping what they have.  Hence, Juggernauts?  I haven't found a better creature to put pressure on the opponent.


RFG JESTER

// Lands
    1  Tolarian Academy
    1  Strip Mine
    4  Mishra's Workshop
    4  Bazaar of Baghdad
    3  Mountain
    4  Wasteland
    4  Barbarian Ring

// Creatures
    4  Goblin Welder
    3  Juggernaut
    2  Triskelion
    1  Karn, Silver Golem

// Spells
    4  Uba Mask
    1  Mana Crypt
    1  Mox Emerald
    1  Mana Vault
    1  Grim Monolith
    1  Mox Jet
    1  Mox Pearl
    1  Mox Ruby
    1  Mox Sapphire
    1  Black Lotus
    1  Sol Ring
    1  Trinisphere
    1  Wheel of Fortune
    1  Tormod's Crypt
    4  Crucible of Worlds
    4  Jester's Cap
    4  Winds of Change

Okay, no Tangle Wires, 3 Juggernauts.  Eight 1cc Red Cards, 8 red mana sources not including Black Lotus.  Wheel of Fortune might be bad in this list, believe it or not.  I'm considering taking it out.  Chalices have to go because of dyssynergy with Chalice at 1.

Here's a more optimized version of the deck after only thinking about it for about 10 minutes more:

RFG JESTER

// Lands
    1  Tolarian Academy
    1  Strip Mine
    4  Mishra's Workshop
    4  Bazaar of Baghdad
    3  Mountain
    4  Wasteland
    4  Barbarian Ring

// Creatures
    4  Goblin Welder
    3  Juggernaut
    3  Triskelion
    1  Karn, Silver Golem

// Spells
    4  Uba Mask
    1  Mana Crypt
    1  Mox Emerald
    1  Mana Vault
    1  Grim Monolith
    1  Mox Jet
    1  Mox Pearl
    1  Mox Ruby
    1  Mox Sapphire
    1  Black Lotus
    1  Sol Ring
    1  Wheel of Fortune
    2  Tormod's Crypt
    3  Crucible of Worlds
    4  Jester's Cap
    4  Winds of Change

You'll notice -1 Crucible -1 Trinisphere, +1 Tormod's Crypt, +1 Triskelion.  I'm not sure if Triskelion is the extra addition needed, we might need another basic mountain.  Yespuhyren, do some testing and get back to me on this idea.  I don't have the time to test on MWS much anymore - for one reason because there aren't good players there, and for the 2nd more important reason:  I'm too busy.  I'll get some decklists off the SCG top 8 when it comes up so we can test THE JESTER and RFG JESTER and CAP AGGRO over MWS when we get the chance/time.  In response to your latest PM, I'd love to do some testing with you. 

Also, Su-Chi might be infinitely better than Juggernaut.  In theory, being able to weld out Su-Chi to put down another Su-Chi after it attacks is huge, or the possibility to put down another Uba Mask and super-lock the opponent right away when we don't have mana.  Su-Chi + Welder is huge when it comes to an additional mana source, and it's so much better than tapping emerald and welding in Grim Monolith for it.  Plus, it doesn't have to attack, and isn't THAT much weaker than Juggernaut.  I'm thinking it might be better.

In easy to look at terms:

21 Lands
11 Mana Accelerants  (normal 9 + Grim Monolith and Lotus Petal)
18 RFG
4 Uba Mask
4 Winds of Change
4 Jester's Cap
4 Goblin Welder
2 Tormod's Crypt

10 OTHER STUFF
4 Su-Chi
3 Crucible of Worlds
2 Triskelion
1 Karn, Silver Golem

We can go workshop aggro if they get out Null Rod.  Plus, we'll have 4 Shattering Spree in the board, in addition to 2 more Tormod's Crypts, and some other stuff.  This deck looks REALLY promising.  In theory, it should be able to handle anything really well.  Anything with a few win conditions (most of the format) should be handled by Winds of Change (this card is broken, seriously) alongside other RFG stuff.  As for stuff with more than 5 Win Conditions, Su-Chi, Triskelion, and Karn do a good job of killing stuff.  We COULD go down to 2 Crucible of Worlds, because honestly, the card is not really all that important in this build.  Wheel of Fortune probably makes the cut, although it is alot of non-shop mana.  I don't have it in right now just to test the consistency of the build.

The SB for this deck can just be absurd.  My SB was stellar in Richmond.  Counter decks really have a hard time with this deck, as there are TOO MANY must-counters in this deck.  Plus, they can't rely on stockpiling cards in any given place, like the graveyard and then getting recoup because we have T-Crypt.  Aggro decks have problems with weldable Triskelions and Su-Chis.  They need to take care of Welder immediately, but even if they manage to do that, we can still just beat to death with Su Chi / Karn / Trikes.  The board is so versatile, it can support many more beaters of different varieties.  Aggro will not be a problem, and counter decks will not be a problem.  Combo will most likely be very good for this deck, as we can Winds of Change them if we feel they have a good hand, and make them die if we have Uba Mask out.  The problem that I see is that if they topdeck brainstorm, they can cast it under Uba Mask with no cards in hand and go off if they have a permanent or permanents that allow them to do so.  I don't know how to solve this problem aside Jester's Cap, which might be enough.

Winds of Change is seriously really brutal.

[yespuhyren]

Winds of Change is seriously really brutal.

That is also one of the cards I suggested a while back for UbaStax, but it was dismissed as being terrible and my idea being stupid faiirly quickly.

I'll do my best to test and post results.  I am going to try an even more workshop aggro version as well, more like the Triturator deck I used at the last tournament.  I'm going to just load the deck with creatures.  The creature list right now is:

4x Su-Chi
4x Juggernaut
2x Triskelion

[Evenpence]

That is also one of the cards I suggested a while back for UbaStax, but it was dismissed as being terrible and my idea being stupid faiirly quickly.

I'll do my best to test and post results.  I am going to try an even more workshop aggro version as well, more like the Triturator deck I used at the last tournament.  I'm going to just load the deck with creatures.  The creature list right now is:

4x Su-Chi
4x Juggernaut
2x Triskelion

Winds of Change is definitely Sub-Par in Ubastax.    Karn's gotta be in there, btw.  Karn is so much better than Juggernaut no. 4.

I thought Winds of Change was a rare from Legends, when it's actually only an uncommon.  Regardless, it's still only a dollar.  The Portal one is a rare, though.  I'm not sure which one I like better.  I think I like the Legends one better, although the portal one is pretty pimp, and probably worth a good bit more, especially as it's rare.  Yesphuyren, you're gonna want Portal Ones for your super pimp deck. 

[Moxlotus]

This deck is beginning to morph into a Shop aggro deck I played at SCG Chicago 1 that I called It's Raining Men.  It also looks like its going to run into the same problem why the deck doens't work today.

Control Slaver

Honestly, if a deck practically autoloses to Slaver now it probably isn't viable.  Unless you are completely savage and don't play it all day/draw the absolute nuts agains them.

[Evenpence]

Control Slaver will get easier with Lava Darts in the SB.  This deck is much more different than It's Raining Men, because it can win first turn against many decks.  The ability to win first turn is also what prompted me to add in Lotus Petal and Grim Monolith.  We might be able to take them out for cards that do something.

I've found fatties actually do well against Control Slaver.

[Moxlotus]

Fatties are good against Slaver, but if 1 spell gets Drained you basically lose.  Also they can goldfish almost as fast as you can.

[Jacob Orlove]

To be fair, Tangle Wire is huge against Drain decks, letting you resolve several huge threats (Caps and fatties here, I guess).

In addition, Bazaar/Welder lets you avoid Drain once they get UU up.

Also, between Ring, Crucible, and Trike, you have a huge advantage against their Welders, which puts them in the awkward position of needing Tinker, Will, or 6-8 mana, and a Cap can crimp those plans significantly.

Finally, the Raining Men build wasted a ton of slots on things like burn spells, instead of real disruption like Chalice. Moving the burn to the land slots gives you much more room in the deck to help fight control.

[Evenpence]

Holy Shit, Jacob knows what he's talking about.  Is this the other deck that Meandeck was working on? 

I actually have Tangle Wires out of my list, I think, in favor of beaters, although I have come to that same conclusion, Jacob.  Honestly, this deck is so up in the air, it's crazy.  I'm working off pure theory, not actually doing any playtesting.  I like Juggernauts, but Tangle Wires are probably better.

I see the deck as trying to do two things:

Plan A)  Remove all possible ways of the opponent winning.
Plan B)  Swing for the win, or put the pressure on the opponent so you can resolve Cap.

Disruption isn't really a priority in this deck, which is really peculiar, and one of the reasons that I cut Chalice.  I would have preferred to have Tangle Wire over Chalice at Richmond for sure.  Chalice didn't do anything either, except get me a game 3 win against LaPlante.    Of course, Tangle Wire would have done the same thing, honestly, because he wouldn't have enough mana to do a broken recoup/dt/will.

Winds of Change is a great utility card because it's good without Uba Mask, but INSANE with it.  Uba Mask + Winds of Change is probably the most broken play in the deck aside turn 1 Cap Activation.

[Whatever Works]

Holy Shit, Jacob knows what he's talking about.  Is this the other deck that Meandeck was working on? 

Probably not. Perhaps it coulb be that Jacob is an extremely good magic player who obviously knows what he is talking about. I find that comment to be offensive sinse your emplying (even if not on purpose) that Jacob generally doesnt know what he is talking about.

[Evenpence]

I didn't mean it to be offensive, and I hope Jacob knows that.  I definitely didn't mean it on purpose.

I've never seen Jacob post on a Workshop thread before, honestly, and didn't think he really cared for the discussion at all.  I actually didn't know he had such insight into Shop decks.

I apologize, Jacob, and Whatever Works, for the way that came across.  I meant no disrespect.

Like I've posted before, I'm just going to repeat:

I see the deck taking two different directions.  For now, let's call my version, the one that RFGs cards from the game in order to win RFG JESTER.

Let's call the version that's trying to be more Workshop Aggro, "CAP AGGRO," or, "JESTER AGGRO," or something so we know what we're talking about.  I think Yespuhyren is taking the deck in this direction, and I'm working on the other version.  Right now, I think Yespuhyren's build is definitely better, as my beaters are only there as a backup plan.  I'm really relying on getting Uba Mask or Jester's Cap out, and being able to cast Winds of Change or Activate Cap, or Activate Crypt, etc, to get all their cards that win them the game RFGed.  This list is significantly worse than CAP AGGRO against regular aggro, but a monster against control decks.

The SB I see for the deck is pretty standard:
Shattering Spree
Tormod's Crypt
Defense Grid (this card is a monster in Cap Aggro)
A Variety of Fatties with Abilities
Chalice of the Void could even make an apperance here

With RFG JESTER, you can make the change to CAP AGGRO fairly easily, just SB alot of fatties and side out an uba Mask and some Winds of Change for Fatties and Tangle Wires.

Yesphuyren, with all this discussion, would you mind writing up a new list for me not in workstation format?  Like, 21 lands / 9 artifact mana / 30 stuff.  You can do it in workstation format ALSO if you want.    Just want to see where you're taking this idea with Cap Aggro.

[ashiXIII]

I don't have a lot of experience with this type of deck, (although I played Workshop Aggro for a brief period of time in the 4-Trinisphere era) but wouldn't cutting the Su-Chis before cutting the Juggies be a good idea? It seems to be Juggie is just better than Su-Chi, with a bigger power, still swining during a Slaver turn (not a big deal, but could be huge) and not randomly dealing you 4 damage when he dies in your combat phase. (Welder, anyone) The only advantage Su-Chi seems to have over Juggie is the 4 in the butt. Again, I don't know that this is right, it just seems right. Feel free to correct me if it's not for some reason.

[Evenpence]

The reason that I think Su-Chi might be better than Juggernaut is the fact that it ennables you to weld out Su-Chi after he attacks to play a Juggernaut or Uba Mask for free.  Not to mention when you have Ubazaar going, the ability to weld out Su-Chi for something is HUGE, because you can get another guy or artifact into play.  The 4 in the butt helps too though.  Technically, the clock is a turn slower than Juggernaut, but Su-Chi doesn't die to Triskelion Pings (trisk has to block him) and he doesn't have to attack every turn.

EDIT:  Also, if you happen to weld Su-Chi out for something like...Grim Monolith, things get interesting off Ubazaar really quickly.  It's win-more, admittedly, but it helps to wrap the game up quickly.  That mana that you get off Su-Chi can also be used to cast or activate Cap.  It decreases the reliance on workshop-needed mana, and makes casting wheel of fortune doable.  Taking a random 4 damage here or there through combat isn't really that common compared to the amount of ways you can abuse Su-Chi.  Having both is really good, as well, which Yespuhyren seems to be doing.

Maybe we could even put Aether Vial into the deck and ramp it to four!  Yes, that is sarcastic. 

[Hi-Val]

Jacob has been playing shop aggro on and off for more than a year; his last build of it did pretty well when he played it. That said, knowing what you're talking about is a requirement for being on Meandeck, so it's to be expected : )

The caps look nice in here; they look pretty mana-intensive and my first intuition is that they don't often win the game in one activation, but I could be wrong here. Two T8s in two days is nothing to brush off.

[Evenpence]

Unfortunately, Hi-Val, the whole deck is pretty mana intensive, hence my liking of the Su-Chis.  Everything in this deck virtually has a CC of 4, with Uba Mask, Juggernaut, Su-Chi, Jester's Cap, and Smokestack all having cc's of 4, we're pretty reliant on workshops.   I've never played Shop Aggro, honestly, and will bow down to Jacob's knowledge.  Jacob, do you have any suggestions for the build?  You're welcome to work on it with us. 

[Whatever Works]

I didn't mean it to be offensive, and I hope Jacob knows that.  I definitely didn't mean it on purpose.

I've never seen Jacob post on a Workshop thread before, honestly, and didn't think he really cared for the discussion at all.  I actually didn't know he had such insight into Shop decks.

I apologize, Jacob, and Whatever Works, for the way that came across.  I meant no disrespect.

No Problem. Just wanted to point out that your post came out to sound a little bit differently then you might have percieved.

Now about the deck! I do not think that aggro is the way to go with this list at all. Any aggro variation that I have tried from list leaves the deck with problems, and loss of synergy. Do I want to cast Jesters Cap or Juggernaut??? Do I want to drop bazaar + Welder this turn (on game 2)... Or do I want to cast the trike??? The deck is filled with tough questions like this obviously, but if your playing the deck more controlling the choices will work with better interactions, and probably with more success vs. drain decks...

The fact is that the more you turn your list into aggro workshop the closer it becomes to a bad version of 5/3 with additional weight in jesters cap. This deck in an aggro form will still not be able to race combo, and is still 1 rebuild away from losing to gifts... As the controlling deck however you can make it more difficult for control to ever get that drain mana up, and the deck can almost forget about getting the mana neccessary to cast an energy flux or rebuild with well placed wastelands + tangle wire, and most importantly sphere of resistance.

The real key is that every card in your deck has to surve a purpose. I feel that winds of change etc. are just not surving the purpose needed to deserve inclussion of a serious type 1 deck. Synergy is important, but meeting realistic conditions is as well. That is 1 reason I hate uba mask is that the deck NEEDS uba mask to opperate affectively, and essentially loses to a welder unless it can find a barbarian ring.

Your list should Smash Gifts, Combo, Oath, Stax Mirrors... Making the deck aggro does what??? Hurts your Oath matchup, hurts your combo matchup, slightly improves stax matchup, slightly improves your fish matchup...

Is that a worthwhile trade? Honestly, I dont think it is.

Kyle L

[Evenpence]

I don't think it has to be a question of which is better, as both decks can transform into each other pretty easily.  The only thing saving us against Oath is Duplicants SB (possibly) and 4 Jester's Cap MD.  The extra aggro really helps against random jank aggro, which I still went up against for a good bit at Richmond (like 5 rounds were bad decks or something out of both days).

Chalice needs to get added back in because dropping Chalice at 0 on the play is so huge.  It makes Gifts go slow, which can be the deciding factor.  Gorilla Shaman is also something that we haven't really talked about, even though it's good.  It's also not workshop-reliant, and really deserves to be in our builds, probably, at least to slow mox-heavy hands down, or to dissuade people from playing moxes.  Crucible really doesn't need to be more than a 3-of in these lists, because we're not going to usually have the need to recur wasteland all that much because people have been running so many basics to combat Ubastax and other decks like it.

[Whatever Works]

I don't think it has to be a question of which is better, as both decks can transform into each other pretty easily.  The only thing saving us against Oath is Duplicants SB (possibly) and 4 Jester's Cap MD.  The extra aggro really helps against random jank aggro, which I still went up against for a good bit at Richmond (like 5 rounds were bad decks or something out of both days).

Your right. It isnt a question of which is better at all. To me its pretty clear that the controlling version is obviously stronger but thats another discussion.

You said the only thing saving you vs. Oath is duplicants (possibly) and Jesters Cap main. To me I find it suprising that you have any worries about this matchup at all. Looking at the decklist and envisioning the games in my head you should have at least a 70% matchup with almost any variation of Oath.

-Tangle Wire slows down Oath ALOT...
-Smokestack is just so good when they give you tokens...
-Duplicant out of the board is insane...
-They dont run that many basics...
-You have maindeck hate cards in Cap that ends the game...

If your really that concerned about the matchup just board in Duplicants, and if your super worried about the matchup you can bring in other cards such as spawning pit, eon hub (though Its awful)...

Your other point for running more aggro was because you faced 5 "jank" decks, and you later called them "bad decks"... This is just a bit puzzling to me, because if they are bad decks why would you be concerned about them??? I know bad aggro decks can sometimes cause problems for stax, but to me that just tells me to just run a few extra board slots to fix these matchups instead of trying to change a solid list to a less then optimal list to increase matchups vs. decks you wont be facing in the top 8 of a tournement anyway!

If it is a concern just opt for a sideboard like...

3 Dupilcant
3 Trike
1 Solemn Simulacrum (take a page from Dumars)

Then the remaining 8 Slots can be dedicated toward Control, and Combo, and random hate cards that you feel are neccessary...

I REALLY like the idea of increasing the # of gorrilla Shaman even if it would require you to drop a welder (which generally is a cardinal sin), because of the increased # of pithing needles that you should expect in the future. To me I think it would be pretty obvious that with the decks that appeared out of richmond top 8's... The need for Pithing needle in the board will be increased, and even in the main. So it wont be just Brassman's gifts list to be running them soon.

Kyle L

[Evenpence]

It really depends on what list you're talking about.  Smokestack isn't run in either build, I'm pretty sure, unless Yespuhyren did something that I don't know about, and Oath is still a hard matchup (especially game 1) if you don't activate Jester's Cap early.

RFG JESTER will have problems with jank aggro (bad decks).  CAP AGGRO or SHOP CAP or CAPSHOP or whatever Yespuhyren decides to call the thing, maybe we could just call it THE JESTER and have my version be called RFG, does really well against jank aggro.

I'm going to let Yespuhyren head up the CAP AGGRO list, while I work more on the RFG list, which I think has alot of potential, but alot of problems.  It's very pro-active, and has some really good overlooked cards (Winds of Change is a house, seriously).  I also think I have enough beaters to do fine, so I think my list is really good.  Thanks for calling it superior, Whatever Works, like I said at Richmond, I appreciate your posts and agree with you on a good bit.

I'm trying to discover some more overlooked cards that can go into the list to make it optimal.  The SB is pretty much set.  I'm gonna go get something to eat.

[Moxlotus]

Looking at that last list you have essentially no disruption.  No, I don't count Mask as disruption because it doesn't stop your opponent from goldfishing.  Nothing is stopping your opponent from dropping their moxen, playing their nuts, and winning the game while you sit with a Juggernaut in play. 

Winds seems bad since it needs other cards to work and if you have those other cards (active Welder), you should be winning anyways without doing cool things.  Plus, Bazaar+Winds aren't exactly tech.

It seems that you either need to activate Cap on turn 2 and hope your opponent doesn't have a win condition in his hand, or you will lose the goldfish.  Juggernauts don't usually race Slaver and Gifts--especially with no disruption.

The more I look at that list, the more it looks like Oath.  There are 4 cards you want to get into play ASAP and besides that you don't have much else.  The difference is that Oath costs 2 while Cap costs 6 and is shut off by Rod.  The other difference is Oath can protect its win-you can't.

[Evenpence]

Yeah, the list definitely needs more disruption.  Taking out Grim Monolith, Lotus Petal, a Winds of Change, and something else for 4 Chalice is probably right.  Some other changes can be made, like the addition of Tangle Wire.  Tangle Wire might actually be just straight up better than Chalice, although it's not likely.

[lordmayhem]

Thing is, you cut Rods, but if an opponent slaps down a Rod they do you a lot of damage.

1  Mana Crypt
1  Mox Emerald
1  Mana Vault
1  Mox Jet
1  Mox Pearl
1  Mox Ruby
1  Mox Sapphire
1  Black Lotus
1  Sol Ring

3  Triskelion
2  Karn, Silver Golem

4  Jester's Cap

[Evenpence]

The brilliant thing is, LordMayhem, that this deck doesn't care.  The only things that play Null Rods right now are aggro (which we can just slap fatties down and race to a game 1 win, Jester's Caps suck here anyway) or Ubastax (which this deck should run over with fatties).  Welder can also take care of Fatties, and we're talking about adding Gorilla Shaman in, which means we can kill something then weld it back in for the Rod, then kill it again.

Also, we have 4 Shattering Sprees in the SB.

The only deck that's really scary is Oath with Null Rod.  Yeah, that would be a problem.  But then again, we'll probably win games 2 and 3 because of spree.