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1  Eternal Formats / Creative / [Singlecard-Discussion]Cranial Extraction on: September 23, 2004, 01:20:43 pm
This card is just all around good.  It's splashable, and will give mono-B builds a shot against a lot of decks that used to demolish it (combo).  I see no reason not to maindeck a couple and s/b in the rest in a mono-B deck.   Remember 4 mana isn't that much for mono black which should have at all times a minimum of 5 dark rituals (lotus + 4).  I also picture you S/B'ing out these round 2 against certain decks ... but whatever it's never a dead card just less gamebreaking.  boo-hoo.  If mono-B was a more popular format when this card comes out I iminage it would be restricted pretty quick ... but given the weakness of mono-B this just gives it a fighting chance ... well some of the time.
2  Eternal Formats / Creative / My mono-B nethervoid attempt at waterbury on: September 16, 2004, 09:54:07 am
Quote from: Goose
Quote
...Having 9 basics has been a huge advantage thusfar due to the popularity of crucible ... big enough I think to outweighs the advantage of the extra color.
Answered the question I was just about to ask.
So crucible is the only reason keeping this deck from adding a little support...
But could the help of say White, or Blue even outweigh the setback of 1 card?


Well the "Standard" nethervoid is supposed to play green for artifact/enchanment hate and pernicious deeds instead of powder keg (although to be honest I've found powder keg to be better/faster and do almost everything I need anyhow).  I just didn't see green being useful enough.  

White is an interesting idea, I mean moat or wrath would help this deck immensely as it has creature problems to begin with, and resolving an armageddon with a nethervoid and a weenie in play would definitely give you an insta-win ... but with the void in play you have no excuse to lose anyhow.  White I hadn't considered much.

Blue, on the otherhand, is worth thinking about.  I mean what deck can't use a timewalk and an ancestral?  There is also a lot of synergy with standstill with this deck (look at all of the utility-lands).  Nethervoid is a rather successful deck simply relying on top-deck glory, so give it some card acceleration and you should be guaranteed a win.  Also lim-dul's vault is a highly underrated card that any deck would love to play and mana leak is viable in a splash.  I would have to seriously rework the deck to work in serious blue disruption of any kind (mana drain, FoW), but just splashing blue is viable I feel ... again at the cost of land security.  

So I am probably going to toy with blue here ... which as far as I know is rather unprecedented for nethervoid.  I'm hopeful it can make the deck competitive tier 1 ... but I honestly don't know.
3  Eternal Formats / Creative / My mono-B nethervoid attempt at waterbury on: September 15, 2004, 08:16:39 am
Quote from: shaq
Wouldn't it be better had you maindecked 4 negators?  Wink
Nice job, feral; Those reports keep demonstrating how insane is crucible+striplands.


haha ... yeah I hear you.  The deck doesn't need a crucible for defense (9 swamps) but I can't tell you how often I win with something like Tutor + crucible after enough directed disruption to hate our any counterspells on hand (or a nethervoid).  It's funny but black just ignores counterspells because there's just too many things that are "must-counter".  A duress or sinkhole or hymn or mindtwist or hyppie or nethervoid ... all pretty much are "must counter" and I just have more.

Anyhow this deck (or any nethervoid deck) isn't quite competitive just because it has a few too many bad matchups.  It can get damaged by combo (FoW is the only thing to trully stop combo) and aggro.  I've been trying to rework it to have a shot against those kinds of decks but it may not happen.  Also I've been very hesitant to splash any other colors in this crucible + strip happy environment.  Having 9 basics has been a huge advantage thusfar due to the popularity of crucible ... big enough I think to outweighs the advantage of the extra color.
4  Eternal Formats / Creative / Trying Nether Void one last time. on: September 14, 2004, 12:11:26 pm
So as not to hijack this thread I made my own.  Lets take this discussion there.  http://www.themanadrain.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=317163#317163
5  Eternal Formats / Creative / My mono-B nethervoid attempt at waterbury on: September 14, 2004, 12:10:11 pm
I went 5/3 and two of those three were what I consider pretty broken draws.  Excuses aside I had a blast and am considering retooling the deck somewhat to better compete.  In the current meta (which is pretty slow) I'm not too worried with this deck.  I have at leat 5/5 matchups with everything except for the venerable TnT which still takes me 3/7 (I do 10 game playtests).

List

Mana - 19
1 Black Lotus
1 Jet
1 Sol Ring
4 Dark Ritual
3 Fetchlands
9 Swamps

Broken - 1
1 Yawgmoth's Will

Straight Disruption - 6
3 Nethervoid
3 Powder Keg

Card Economy - 4
1 Necropotence
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Death Wish

Land Destruction - 10
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Strip Mine
4 Wastelands
4 Sink Hole

Hand Destruction - 8
4 Duress
3 Hymn to Tourach
1 Mindtwist

Critters - 12
1 Juzam Djinn
1 Withered Wretch
3 Hypnotic Spectre
3 Nantuko Shade
4 Mishra's Factory


SB - 15
3 Dystopia
3 Tormod's Crypt
3 Null Rod
2 Diabolic Edict
1 Chainer's Edict
2 Razormane Masticore
1 Masticore

1 - 0
1st round - Hulk Smash 2 - 0
I didn't get to see much of this deck but everything I saw of it was pretty typical.  Land + Hand disruption + resolved hypnotic spectre = dead.  This is one of the easiest matches for me, I sideboarded in a couple crypts and a single diabolic edict just in case ... didn't matter hulk never hit the table.

1 - 1
2nd round - R/G Aggro 0 - 2
Nethervoid has problems with any sort of aggro matchup, and this was no exception.  He killed me with river boa's and mox monkeys ... it was totally embarrassing.  My SB didn't do much for me second round and I sat on a hand I should have mulliganed away.  I suck

1 - 2
3rd round - B/R/??? welder? 1 - 2
I wasn't sure what this deck type was but I've seen it around (can anyone give me the name?).  The only win condition I saw was a tinker + collossus.  The only thing I saw the welder for was a memory jar ... not sure what else.  Anyhow he dropped a first turn collossus on me and I checked out (my only maindeck answer is a deathwish + edict ... which didn't happen).  Second round the collossus came out early again but I edicted (which he countered) so I yawmoth's and edicted again which took out the thing.  Then I ate him with a juzam and a nantuko.  Third round  I kept a hand I shouldn't and the collossus came and I was behind on mana and had nothing going.  

2 - 2
4th round - mono-U  2 - 0
This was another slaughter.  I resolved a nethervoid in both games, and I've never lost a game where I've resolved that stupid thing.  Anyhow again hand + land destruction killed the hell out of control.

3 - 2
5th round - Sui Black w/G for deeds??  2 - 1
This was a little scarey because suicide can really give nethervoid a headache with faster creatures and more of them ... not to mention its not fun eating duresses and hymns.  Anyhow first game he came out swinging with a duress (which took my duress ... lol) and we exchanged disruption  until I laid down a crucible which won me the match.  Second match I had my edicts and a razormane maindecked and I just made a bad play by chainer's edicting away a critter and then forgetting I could flash it back.  Sure enough he dropped a critter I could have chainer's-ed away but I just forgot I had that.  3rd round he resolved a 1st turn negator which I answered with a 2nd turn mishra's factory.  He attacked and I let him discard his land and then next turn laid down another factory.  Eventually he decided the negator was a bad idea so I laid down a hyppie and a nantuko (that he couldn't block with the negator since he had too few permanents) and I laid waste to him.

3 - 3
6th round GAT - 0 - 2
I just got annihilated by some pretty sick hands.  1st round he dropped a dryad and had it up to 5/5 before I could do much of anything.  I probably should have mulliganned better but whatever.  2nd round I got off a first round duress and he says "sorry" and lays his hand down: mox, lotus, land, timewalk, regrowth, ancestral, dryad.  I didn't know the right answer so I took the recall figuring it would slow him enough.  Anyhow the dryad came out turn 2 and then due to regrowth + timewalk + yawgmoth's will he proceded to take 4 turns in a row (it might have been 5, I don't remember) and wasted me with an 11/11 berserked dryad at the end.        

4 - 3
7th round Control slaver -  2 - 0
He got off an early welder which I answered with an early Wretch.  At that point he told me there was no way for him to win which I really couldn't comfort him if my 2/2 Withered Wretch can beat his deck.  In any case he didn't do anything and I ran him over with a juzam.  2nd round I add more graveyard hate and the null rods.  I resolve a 2nd turn nethervoid and win the land war and he gives up when crucible hits the table.

5 - 3
8th round 4CC control - 2 - 0
I layed into him with the disruption and it worked fine.  I drew a lotus 3rd turn and used my mindtwist to empty his hand and I had spent the previous two rounds destroying lands.  It was over.  2nd round he put a morphed exhalted angel in play which was going to kill me until I resolved a crucible and then put a nantuko in play.  He soon had no lands and I killed him with only 4 life (his morph had pounded me for 5 or 6 rounds).
     

The deck has major trouble with aggro decks, because creature control is just not it's forte.  The 3 masticores and edicts can usually give me enough delay to have a chance, but it's nothing too special.  Combo can give it headaches if it doesn't get good disruption.  Same goes for TnT, fast fatties is too much for this deck.  Everything else is at least a fair matchup if not favorable.  

The death wish always come out for S/B cards, its there purely for a 1st turn s/b answer if necessary, it's saved me before.  The crucible just wins games.  It turns my mishra's into infinite blockers and is obviously nice with the fetch/waste/strip effects.  This deck is also mostly immune to enemy wastelands since swamps are really all that matter.
6  Eternal Formats / Creative / Trying Nether Void one last time. on: September 13, 2004, 11:02:58 am
let me put it to you this way ... what does negator do for you that juzam doesn't?  It helps you against control decks ... but the thing is you already have an awesome matchup against control decks anyhow.  Mono-B (void or sui) can annihilate control decks all day long, like I said I completely steam-rolled over every control deck I faced at waterbury.  

The decks that mono-B has issues with are aggro decks and fast-beatz decks ... combo to a certain extent as well but disruption can usually manage to overcome combo given aggressive mulligans.  Does negator help you against aggro?  Nope ... not at all in fact it hurts you.  A fire/ice or bolt or even just a weenie can not only answer your negator but destroy you.  

So negator is nothing better than win-more against control decks that you can already crush and is a win-less against the decks you need help with whereas juzam will actually help you in your tough match-ups.  You can't fire/ice a juzam away without support, and the juzam will murder your aggro creatures without a care.  

So comparing a juzam vs negator in a vaccuum sure the negator is better ... but comparing them in the context of what helps a mono-b deck most ... the juzam is better all the way.  

Oh and I didn't buy my juzam, I opened out of a pack the old-fashioned way.  I may be new here but I am not new to this game.
7  Eternal Formats / Creative / Trying Nether Void one last time. on: September 13, 2004, 10:54:43 am
Quote from: shaq
Juzam>Negator? You must be talkin about prices. As someone said above, you simply cannot beat first turn ritual+negator, not even with 1st turn ritual+mox+juzam. I'm sorry if you paid 500$ for your juzams, but you should've invested on negators.
I think legend's primer on sui-black is still a must see for those who play with juzams...


Well considering I totally answered his negator with a whopping 2nd turn mishra's factory ... I'm going to stick to my juzam thank you.  First turn negator scares me about as much as playing against FoW ... meaning duress and hymn make it an irrelevant threat.  I only play one Juzam, and I use it as a major beatstick.  Remember this is nethervoid not sui ... it's arguable that you really don't need a beatstick in nethervoid but at this point, in this meta, the beatstick stays.  It's a solid answer to aggro pre-sideboard and gives me a shot against TNT ... not to mention a first turn juzam is game for too many decks whereas a first turn negator just isn't ... like I said my mishra's factory laughed at the negator and I walked away 2-0 in that match.
8  Eternal Formats / Creative / Trying Nether Void one last time. on: September 13, 2004, 09:57:43 am
Well I played nethervoid at Waterbury (I was the only nethervoid there), I went 5/3 and two of my losses were against god-draws (One guy had a black lotus first hand in all 3 duels ... also dropped a 1st turn darksteel colossus, the other had timewalk go off 4 turns in a row in a gro deck with the dryad on the table ... ugh).  Excuses aside my build is very different than this one as I run mono-B (which I do believe to be superior) so I don't know how relevant my experience was ... but man didn't I send a mono-U, a hulk, and a 4-CC home crying.  I seriously leveled those decks without even trying, it's like nethervoid can't lose to those decks.  I also kicked the hell out of a control-slaver (I got a pretty solid draw against him) and a sui-black.  I taught the sui-black player a lesson about why  Juzam > Negator.  I maindeck a single Juzam and I win with it all the time.

Anyhow I'm not sure I want to drop a decklist (superstition and I actually think I can win a tourney with this) ... but I do have a maindeck crucible, null rod, juzam, funeral charm, deathwish and am thinking about replacing one of the void's with a trini-sphere just for first-turn plays.  In playtesting the only deck I can't go 5-5 against w/o sideboard is still TNT ... but against control decks I honestly don't usually have much to S/B anyhow.
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