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1  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: How to respond to the creature removal as beatdown on: February 18, 2012, 05:36:23 pm
if that's what you meant, then I would count natural draw with high threat density as a third alternative (which is kind of what has been discussed so far).

there are some other options oath, that green enchantment that (2 mana, pay4 for the card, but you get to rearrange your top 4 for free or something like that), skull clamp, but i'm not nor have i really explored those options too much.

natural draw with high threat density and then playing new dudes is what I assumed was meant by replacing guys, and is a good option for this deck.

sylvan library could be a real house in the right mono green, red/green or white/green deck. also made me think of Mirri's Guile (not so hot). Has a nice ability, but doesn't create any CA.
2  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: How to respond to the creature removal as beatdown on: February 18, 2012, 02:07:32 pm
Multani's Presence could be used in a heavy blue/control meta. Could be used with chalice of the void to counter and then cycle your own dead spells. Shattering spree+Multani's Presence+CotV?
Multani's Presence lacks the legs that a beatdown deck needs. Also doesn't synergize w/heartwood storyteller.
3  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: How to respond to the creature removal as beatdown on: February 17, 2012, 06:53:20 pm
Ok, as I understand it, the notion here is that we run cards that would replace our threats. We will not bother to protect them.

This already points out that there are 2 options already:

- protect our dudes (this on itself can be done in several ways)
- replace our dudes

So are there more than one ways to replace our dudes?

And what other options can be added besides those 2 above?


Replace? I don't understand what you mean.

I think he means just cast more creatures to replace the ones that got nuked
4  Eternal Formats / Null Rod Based Aggro / Re: [Deck Primer]: Christmas Beatings on: January 17, 2012, 11:25:34 am
Mental Misstep will be needed in Christmas Beatings to counter opposing Mental Misstep. Mental Misstep will become more prevalent in the format in response to a rise in prevalence of Grafdigger's Cage.

Grafdigger's cage is a great boon to Christmas Beatings. It may eliminate the debate between Null Rod vs. Chalice of the Void and turn it into a discussion of the correct suite of cage/rod/chalice to effectively combat big blue/shops/dredge.

Does cage have any utility with Goblin Welder (I've heard in other threads that it shuts welder off, but I don't know what the official ruling on it will be)?  What does cage take away from Christmas Beatings?... ancient grudge...can't think of anything else.

Along with mental misstep, I think Christmas Beatings also needs to be packing Mindbreak Trap. Mental Misstep, Mindbreak Trap and REB/Pyroblast will allow this deck to compete on the stack with blue control decks.
5  Eternal Formats / Null Rod Based Aggro / Re: [Deck Primer]: Christmas Beatings on: November 27, 2011, 08:05:17 pm
Great work Jason! and thank you for the report. Not sure whether the mods care if the report is here or not, but sure seems appropriate, def on topic! Maybe you can paste it in into the "Global Vintage Tournament Reports and Results" thread pertaining to the tournament you attended as well. You were up against formidable opponents, and the best prey for this deck--blue and shops. Sounds like your deck came through and often had the answers to your opponents. Next time all you can do is practice your die rolling skills!  In light of your results, how would you alter your deck for the future?

So, considering the recent discussion of null rod and chalice of the void, would you ever consider replacing null rod with chalice? Seems like chalice would work nicely with the Vexing shushers in your list. Would chalice (and mox monkey, maybe) have been a faster denial package/more effective against tinker/early moxen? Or, was the null rod necessary to fight vault/key?

Did you ever wish you had more pyroblasts/REB, or was three maindeck, three sideboard enough against blue decks?

What about the two missing ESGs?--It is nice to have more basic lands to stabilize your manabase, but would you trade that for the added explosiveness and usefulness in the face of null rod that the extra spirit guides could add?

Deglamer-great card. How did it perform? Would you trade it for more Tinstreet Hooligan/Smash to Smithereens? Would seal of primordium in place of this card ever have helped your Tarmogoyf be beefier? Maybe phyrexian metamorph could have been a better choice for this slot, but wtf do i know. Deglamer vs artifact mutation?

In round three, game one your opponent "responds by eating the dead mox I played earlier." Did he eat it with his Quasali Pridemage? Was that a miss play on his part??? It was already dead due to the Stony Silence. Seems odd that he would give up his blocker/aggro component to take out a dead card. But, I guess if this was the case, you never know what an opponent maybe thinking/anticipating/rationalizing. In the end, it seemed to benefit you, so maybe best not to question it.

The ghost quarters in the sideboard-- were they ever valuable (in testing or game play)? I feel like those slots could have been better used??? What decks did you bring them in against? With 4xmagus, 4xwaste + strip you are strong in the land denial area. GQ could be good against dredge and shops, but I feel like a more versatile/relevant card could fill this slot.

Dang... with all these questions I must seem like a nosy norman. Just so ya'all know i want to make this deck a BEAST, that's why I ask so many questions.  Very Happy  I play this deck for fun, but I really want to see it go the distance.
6  Eternal Formats / Null Rod Based Aggro / Re: [Deck Primer]: Christmas Beatings on: November 21, 2011, 06:07:49 pm
@Troy_Costisick (or anyone else who would like to chime in):
I noticed that the last couple of lists you most recently posted lacked Null Rod and kept Chalice of the Void. John Jones' list kept the Null Rod and dropped the Chalice. What is your evaluation and comparison of these two cards in today's meta?
My thoughts:
Chalice is nice because it comes in on turn 1. Null Rod can come down on turn 1, but less reliably so. Chalice can be set to counter a broader range of cmc's, but Null Rod takes out a broader range of artifact strategies. I like the speed of chalice and the versatility of Null Rod. Did you find that the speed of Chalice was more important than the versatility against artifacts of Rod?

Looking at Mr. Jones' list made me realize that artifact mutation will give you a turn or two (depending upon what other creatures you have on the board) against BSC: although artifact mutation won't destroy BSC, it will give you 11x 1/1s. Nice tech, but you probably already knew that.  Wink

The only cards I wonder about in his list are the rack and ruins: they feel clunky, unless you are under 3sphere. In their place I would opt for more shattering sprees (does well under 3sphere, can take out multiple artifacts, gets around chalice), Ingot Chewer(same as spree, but can only take out one artifact),  or seal of primordium (to help against enchantments and to boost tarmo). In the same vein of boosting tarmo, Pyroblast could be used main deck instead of/in combination with REB. I also thought the berserk was out of place, but as he said it was an homage to a friend. We always need to remind ourselves that this is primarily a control deck with a beat down clock to apply pressure as a second plan. At first I didn't like the Smash to smithereens, but a Shatter and an instant speed lava spike for 1R is nothing to shake a stick at: efficient and versatile.

There are so many great anti-artifact and anti-enchantment cards for this deck (seal of primordium, natures claim, hull breach, artifact mutation, Smash to Smithereens, ingot chewer, shattering spree, goblin welder, manic vandal, goblin vandal), it is difficult to determine what is the best mix. To boot, artifact mutation, Smash to Smithereens, ingot chewer, manic vandal and goblin vandal help our aggro plan. But, I shouldn't complain, options are nice.

I think Shusher is going to be the flagship creature of this deck (along with magus of the moon, of course). Shusher plays nice with chalice and he will certainly make all of your blue wielding opponents frown. Shusher and Stingscourger reminded me of one of my favorite cards: Goblin Grenade! I know the 'nade is a big no no: if the Goblin Grenade and the goblin being sacrificed were two Lightning bolts, you'd be able to deal 6 damage pointed at two different targets. But if the goblin has done some damage (Goblin Guide, Goblin Arsonist) or has done something useful (see Stingscourger, Tin-street Hooligan), then the disadvantage of goblin grenade may be mitigated.  Deck space is very tight in the Xmas beatings lists, so there may not be space to squeeze it in. 'Nade is also very aggro and probably not controlling enough for vintage. What do people think about it along side or in place of Lightning bolt as an explosive finisher? A list with goblin grenade would have to pack a maximum number of goblins. We already have tarmogoyf, magus and the spirit guides. Goblin Grenade might be better suited in a mono-red, goblin heavy list without tarmo and elvish spirit guides (although Tin-street Hooligan like G). Also, shapeshifters/changelings like Taurean Mauler can be used with Gobllin grenade (and Metamorph when it copies a gobo).
Here are the goblins I could see playing in this type of deck in vintage with Goblin Grenade:
Vexing Shusher
Tinstreet Hooligan
Stingscourger
Goblin Welder
Taurean Mauler (maybe too slow)
Mogg Sentry (probably not effective enough)
Goblin Guide (questionable but would work well with the aggro plan of 'nade)
Goblin Arsonist
goblin vandal (Tinstreet Hooligan/welder are probably better)
Phyrexian Metamorph
Let me know if you can think of any other vintage viable goblins. I know the Goblin Grenade is a bit of a pet card, so I am certainly not advocating that everyone rearrange their christmas beatings or R decks to accommodate it. Just food for thought.

Well, that was a long post. I guess I've been holding in all this enthusiasm for Christmas beatings! YAAYYY for Christmas! Maybe I should post in smaller bits more often.  Very Happy until next time, may all of your mountains and forests be snow-covered!
Legolas
7  Eternal Formats / Null Rod Based Aggro / Re: The Mountains Win Again is Back! on: November 21, 2011, 04:44:28 pm
Nice job bebx!

Can you evaluate Figure of Destiny? Do you think he is fast enough for the current vintage meta? I feel as if he may never be more than a 4/4, if that. Is that enough? If you were to run R/g (more of a Christmas Beatings style deck), how would he compare to Tarmo (clearly Tarmo is superior)? So, as an underwhelming beater, is there something more controlling that could go in the FoD slot? or a better beater?

Pyrostatic Pillar feels very symmetric. How did it work for you?

Goblin Bombardment--for Oath decks? How about Greater Gargadon?

Stingscourger might be used in place of Dead / Gone or in addition to it if your meta sees a lot of Oath and tinker-->BSC. Both are nice flexible cards for this deck.

Sorry for all the questions--none are meant to question your ability/decision making. Wink just want to foster good discussion of  {R} and  {R} {G} decks! Thanks in advance for your reply.
8  Vintage Community Discussion / Card Creation Forum / Re: Magnetic Bubble on: November 12, 2011, 08:25:59 pm
why does every card have to be blue? couldn't it just be a brown artifact (like they all used to be)?
and the proposed oxidation card screams red. what color is rust (or iron oxide)?
9  Vintage Community Discussion / Community Introductions / Re: Introduce Yourself on: October 26, 2011, 05:26:41 pm
Allow me to introduce... myself.

My name is Reid Turner. I currently reside in Austin, TX and originally hail from Martha's Vineyard, MA.
I love mtg and am especially drawn to eternal formats. I have no experience playing competitive magic. at all. I have been a lurker on forums for many years. I started playing magic in 1995. I have no power. I am drawn to null rod/cotv and other cards that punish powered decks. I have no interest or ability to invest in power. Although I theoretically understand the power of and would like to play with blue, as I have no ability to invest even in FoW, I am drawn to other colors, and even find myself hating blue lately. I would love to play magic, so if you are in the Austin area and laying vintage or legacy, please let me know. Then again, even my paltry revised cards are in MA. As my actual application of magic skills and cards is very limited, I enjoy engaging in theoretical deck building and observing at this point. I understand that my skills and experience are far outclassed by those who actually play magic. I hope someday to build rogue/unpowered decks and have success in vintage. And I hate people who are all agg about [fill in the blank]. RELAX people, its just a game.
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