My schedule this semester is much better, so I'm excited for some vintage tonight!

I used to go these events pretty regularly a few years ago. Would generally bring a carload with me and it was a good time. Would 100% go if I still lived in central IL.

The LGS in my hometown in central IL received "clarification" today on the support line. Here is the store manager's post:

"**** REGARDING PROXIES ****
Ok guys, here is what I have directly from Wizards of the Coast.
They DID NOT send out the emails regarding no proxies being allowed, HOWEVER, this was an existing rule that has just been bent to the point of breaking, and they are trying to enforce it more.
With that being said, they told us that we should not be "policing it" (take that however you want), but that we should not be promoting proxy tournaments, which we will obviously no longer be holding.
Which in theory means that I am NOT the proxy police (you didn't wanna see that), so I will not be confiscating your EDH decks, or Draft Cubes wink emoticon. But, I sadly will not be able to hold tournaments using WER that contain proxied cards, so our Sunday Legacy Proxy tournament is gone frown emoticon. (decipher this if you can)
I understand there is some gray area involved, so if you have any questions you can PM me, and I will answer to the best of my ability."

So it seems to me that it's a similar story for store owner's and TO's out east that have received similar notices but no real enforcement or even consequences for continued proxy events?

I think that's a little obtuse. With the level of activity in this forum, 5 months is hardly a necro (especially considering this thread was still near the top of the page). Also, my list is hardly anything new and not so different from discussed lists to constitute a new thread. I am adding to the larger discussion of what does Gifts decks look like today, rather than starting a new conversation.

If you really want to be that legalistic, this should have been your rallying cry from the get-go, considering that many lists here ran the 1 allowable Thirst for Knowledge (including the list in the OP)--and thus should not have been discussed in this thread.

I would agree with that--the Vandalblast's upside assumes that things are going very well for you. I need my shops hate to *get* me to that point, not to require that state to be good. Chewer ignores Thorns and still offers a solid 2-for-1 if you can get to 5 mana. Like I said, I want to test the Pulverize plan, which would serve the same role as an overloaded Vandalblast.

And as my avatar from 2006 might suggest, I like Gifts'ing for Lotus, LED, Recoup, and Will. The problem then is that you're unable to protect your will with counters. I played that in a ritual gifts list back then--that tactic might still be viable if you lean on discard and Defense Grid for protection. I would just wonder how that strategy compares to the new storm decks that have cropped up in the wake of Dark Petition.

I shifted away from a storm kill condition because the conditions for it largely mirrored the BSC+Time Walk kill--a fat Yawgmoth's Will. There is always the possibility of jewelry+Rebuild+Tendrils plan, but that has rarely come together for me in my years of playing Gifts. It happens, but I don't plan for it (though I make an allowance for it in running Rebuild over Hurkyl's...though honestly I cycled it more often than used it for storm). Vault/Key ups the artifact count for Thirst and gives you access to a kill with a much lower base. It also vastly improves your ability to present deterministic Gifts piles.

Definitely test bounce over Dacks if that suits you. But as for me and my house, Dack would be a difficult cut. Dack serves a lot of roles in the deck--the filtering is obviously great, but having such a strong threat against shops in the main while having utility outside of that a match-up has been incredible. I'm currently looking for room for another Misstep. Drain could be the cut, though that would make me sad. BrassMan recommended taking a look at topdeck tutors for a cut, which was an interesting thought to me.

While 3-0'ing a 6-man vintage FNM is hardly definitive evidence of the efficacy of my list, I liked how it ran and am interesting in tuning it further. I suppose one could argue that it doesn't belong in this thread, considering the presence of multiple TfK. In any case, I had been testing various Gifts shells since its unrestriction and was dissatisfied with most all of them. Burning Gifts was awkward and mana-hungry (adding 2RR to the Tendrils kill via wishing twice was rough), I either missed red or still splashed it with terrible mana in Regrowth Gifts, and Gifts leaning on Night's Whisper lacked oomph. So I put Gifts aside and played various combo decks.

Then Thirst was unrestricted, so I put this together to bring to Pandemonium.

//Mana--26
1x Lotus Petal
1x Mana Crypt
1x Mana Vault
7x SoLoMoxen
2x Island
1x Library of Alexandria
2x Polluted Delta
4x Scalding Tarn
1x Tolarian Academy
3x Underground Sea
3x Volcanic Island

//Dead cards--4
1x Blightsteel Colossus
1x Time Vault
1x Voltaic Key
1x Recoup

//Control--14
2x Flusterstorm
4x Force of Will
3x Mana Drain
2x Mental Misstep
1x Rebuild
2x Dack Fayden

//Business--16
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Vampiric Tutor
1x Yawgmoth's Will
1x Ancestral Recall
1x Brainstorm
1x Dig through Time
3x Gifts Ungiven
1x Mystical Tutor
3x Thirst for Knowledge
1x Time Walk
1x Tinker
1x Treasure Cruise

//Sideboard
3x Tormod's Crypt
2x Duress
3x Ingot Chewer
3x Pulverize
2x Pyroclasm
2x Mountain

It is definitely in the vein of Gifts decks of old, with the Drains and Recoup. Speaking of the latter, I haven't minded it much at all. It's the best card to make Gifts game-winning by itself and with only taking up a single slot--Snapcaster and Noxious Revival take two, and while Snapcaster has more utility by itself than Recoup does, I still say what I hate most with Gifts is drawing dead cards, and Recoup cuts down on that while serving a vital role. It also feels good to Recoup a Time Walk, Treasure Cruise, or Demonic Tutor. It happens. Anyways.

I had recently included Vault/Key at the expense of the 4th Gifts and Empty the Warrens. Empty was serving the role of Tendrils, but allowing you to go off for 6-12 goblins quickly to win out of nowhere. It felt lackluster against Mentor/Pyromancer and felt redundant to Blightsteel--both generally required a big Will turn involving Time Walk.

Thirst's unrestriction was the main reason I wanted to sleeve up Gifts again. It gives the deck velocity and helps you build up resources for a big Gifts turn.

As for changes, I feel like the 3rd Misstep is needed if people are still going to be playing 2-3 Pyroblasts in their maindecks. I might also need to get a 4th Volc in there to accommodate Pulverize. The board is relatively untested. There were no shops decks at the event, so I was unable to try the Pulverize plan--which I know to be solid in Pyromancer decks--but am unsure of in mana-hungry decks like Gifts. Duress is mostly for Flusterstorm, but has upside against the uptick in combo I've seen lately. Skimping on dredge hate because I'm a ramblin' gamblin' man.

Anyone else trying Gifts out in the wake of this BR announcement? I'm excited to see how the meta shifts.

I'll be there early with vintage, legacy, modern, and EDH!

Because standard and tiny leaders are dumb.

Very excited for the change--it will be interesting to see how the meta shifts!

Drain into Inferno Titan is real and did a nonzero amount of work.

Next time I'll play less of a pile.

You could run Cabal Therapy in your combOath deck, which would nicely net two Regrowths.

Though the second line of Chalice is a triggered ability that could be Stifled...assuming the Chalice is not set to one, of course.

I did change my lands around:  -2 Mountain, +1 Ancient Tomb, +1 Cavern of Souls. And creatures: -1 Goblin Welder, +1 Phyrexian Revoker. I had too many hands that could only produce a single mana on turn 1. I also figured that if Welder is the only red requirement then there's no reason not to run 4 Caverns. Speaking of, I dropped a Welder as drawing multiples (especially in the opening hand) was no good--and the additional Revoker is a great answer to Dack Fayden or just being a Stone Rain for an opponent's Mox.

I do think getting Welder online is worth the effort.

Ratchet Bomb instead of Smokestack is interesting to me. I do like that you can pinpoint it to blow up an Oath or something, but I just love grinding opponents away into nothing. Is that just an unnecessary cool thing? I also like Smokestack with Ensnaring Bridge, as you can sacrifice it when you're in control and ready to start swinging. But I suppose Welder can serve that purpose as well. I do like Ensnaring Bridge, though.

I've been wanting to get into MTGO ever since Vintage Masters came out--but I just can't justify spending a grand on digital cards in the same year that I finished my set of real power...and living in Boston with weekly vintage events. The issues with MTGO aren't back-breaking or a deal breaker for playing at all--but it's insane to me to pour that much money into a program where until recently Trygon Predator couldn't destroy enchantments, Trinisphere didn't correctly affect replicate or multikicker, and zooming in on Unhinged lands could cause the program to crash.

Cost plus issues with the client are what keeps me from buying into vintage on MTGO--not lack of interest. Solid article--really enjoyed the interview.

I have been playing vintage for a long, long time and I have almost never deviated from playing decks with blue in them. Whether they killed with a Slaver-lock, Darksteel Colossus, Tendrils of Agony, Blightsteel Colossus, Griselbrand, or Laboratory Maniac, I have always enjoyed jamming disruption, a big pile of restricted cards, and 1-2 kill conditions together and calling it a deck. After a decade of Forces, Drains, and Rituals, I decided to start sleeving up some artifacts and put some real effort in gaining a deeper understanding of Workshop prison decks.  I have heard from a reliable source that variety is the spice of life.

I settled on my list because Goblin Welder is my favorite creature ever printed, and I originally wanted to see if Uba Stax still had legs. The Uba Masks ended up doing very little--even against the Gush decks that I thought they would be effective against. I cut them for Null Rods, which soon were cut for Phyrexian Revokers to mitigate Dack Fayden and Time Vault’s effectiveness. I kept the Bazaars, as their obvious synergy with Goblin Welder and Crucible of Worlds is great. I also appreciated the late-game filtering they offer. Maybe it is just my inner blue mage showing, but I like drawing cards.

After a few weeks of testing, tweaking, scouring lists, and reading reports, here is my current list.

Welder Stax
//Creatures--12
4x Goblin Welder
4x Lodestone Golem
2x Phyrexian Revoker
1x Duplicant
1x Sundering Titan

//Lock Pieces--19
4x Chalice of the Void
3x Crucible of Worlds
3x Smokestack
4x Tangle Wire
4x Thorn of Amethyst
1x Trinisphere

//Bazaars--2
2x Bazaar of Baghdad

//Mana--27
1x Black Lotus
1x Mana Crypt
5x Moxes
1x Sol Ring
3x Ancient Tomb
3x Cavern of Souls
4x Mishra’s Workshop
3x Mountain
1x Strip Mine
1x Tolarian Academy
4x Wasteland

//Sideboard--15
1x Duplicant
1x Wurmcoil Engine
4x Grafdigger’s Cage
2x Pithing Needle
3x Ratchet Bomb
2x Tormod’s Crypt
2x Maze of Ith

I feel like I am beating my head against the problem that I am sure all shops players face: there’s just not enough room for all of the cards that you want in the deck.  For example…

-I feel like I should be playing 3-4 Phyrexian Revokers
-I miss those Null Rods that became Revokers
-I am not sure if 4 Thorn (and 0 Sphere of Resistance) is enough.
-No Spheres because I kept getting Sphere’d out of playing my creatures. Legitimate concern or inexperience on my part?
-Should I be playing 4 Smokestacks instead of 3?
-Ancient Tomb needs to be a 4-of, but only 5 lands for Welder feels low if I cut a Mountain or Cavern.
-Karn got cut, which might be incorrect.

Deck lists and concerns regarding them do not exist in a vacuum--I have been playing at Pandemonium after moving to Boston for grad school, which sees a lots of Mentor/Pyromancer decks with Dack Fayden, some bomberman, a few shops players, some Oath players, Doomsday off and on (usually me, haha) and usually at least 1 Dredge at weekly events. As such, I tried to develop a sideboard that could address a diverse field. Maze of Ith is the most recent addition to the sb--as a last-ditch answer to Blightsteel, Trygon, and Griselbrand. Maybe it is just The Fear, but I feel very soft to Oath.

Putting this list together and playing with it has been incredible fun--and it has been nice to dedicate some real time to playing with Workshops, as opposed to just shuffling them up for playtesting with friends. But I wonder if getting cute with Welder and Bazaar is a dangerous cool thing that is just not as good as a stock Martello or Espresso list.

There is a lot here to respond to, so I definitely appreciate any and all feedback!

Thank you for the write-up! 1 Preordain seems about 2-3 too few. Does Monastery Siege or Noxious Revival really pull their weight? Revival just seems worse than Regrowth outside of a Gifts package.

Being a primarily vintage player since 2005 (I've had my avatar almost as long), I've never really been one for standard.  Except the amazing format that existed for a few months in 2003...Odyssey block, 7th edition, and Onslaught block--before 8th edition rolled in to displace Counterspell, Force Spike, Duress and other goodies that 8th edition couldn't replace.  The list of viable decks is insane.  UG Madness and Threshold, the Wake decks, the Cemetery decks, the tribal decks, Astral Slide, Tog, different flavors of U/x control, variations of mono black, combo decks with Future Sight and/or Mind's Desire, and I'm sure several others I've forgotten.

That standard format stands out to me as an incredible time in magic and it makes me want to build up a gauntlet of those decks as fun pieces of history to play around with.  Anyone else have a standard format they remember with fondness? 

I would agree with much of the above post.  If that list cuts a Dark Ritual and the Mox Emerald for 2 Doomsdays, you have my Doomsday list almost card for card (Island -> Underground Sea, Thoughtseize -> Time Walk). Mox Emerald only casts Fastbond and seems of less use.  The 3rd Dark Ritual seems like it would be dead more often with only 2 Doomsdays and less ability to abuse the speed it offers.

I have been running 2 Dig through Time in my Doomsday list for several weeks now and I have appreciated it greatly.  I haven't tested a split between Dig and Cruise yet, but I prefer the selection that Dig offers.  I'm often looking for a specific combination of cards--Doomsday+Gush, Doomsday/Gush+disruption, etc.  And instant-speed is a huge boon.

In any case, I think if you want to pursue a route that drops 1-3 Doomsdays, then they should be replaced with bombs like Necropotence, Bargain, Desire, Timetwister, etc, and 4 rituals to maximize them would seem ideal.  Dropping key cards like Doomsday and replacing them with more acceleration or disruption would appear to de-power the deck.

It was a good time--despite the 5-way tie for 1st and getting 5th on breakers, haha.  Excellent matches.

Vintage FNM's sound sweet--and will be even more incentive for me to pick up a Pearl and a Ruby, haha.

I really like a singleton Treasure Cruise in Doomsday--though my current list has dropped it for the 2nd Hurkyl's Recall.

My move-in date at BU is August 31st, so I'll be there!

I'm moving to Boston this fall for grad school and I looked up card shops before grocery stores, so you know where my priorities are at!  Incredibly excited to see weekly vintage, I'll try to make it as often as I can once I'm there!

Ferris Bueller's Day Off

Just turned 21 last weekend!

I usually use dice to represent counters.  It would be rather trivial to use two different dice to show the different counters.

It's been absolutely beautiful here in central IL the past few days.  I'm waiting for the other shoe (and about six inches of snow) to drop.

My point is being missed.

Obviously he's not an artifact and can't be Tinkered.  I'm just saying that a 12/12 dude who forces an opponent to sacrifice 4 permanents a turn is pretty crazy and might be worth cheating into play (probably not), even if you're not triggering the Tidings.

That said, I think Tinker > Show and Tell.  And Iona/Hellkite > Butcher, as far as Oath is concerned.  So I don't think the Butcher will do much in vintage.

In any case, I wasn't really trying to say anything profound, just expressing annoyance that "you still won't draw 4 cards" keeps being repeated whenever a method that doesn't involve casting him is proposed.  We get it already.

I think we get that most ways of cheating this guy into play will not draw us cards.

If Darksteel Colossus/Inkwell Leviathan/Sphinx/whatever drew you ten cards when you hardcast it, would we refuse to Tinker it into play?

I hate that every new set brings with it more keywords.

I wonder if the art extending into the borders is because the card is a flagship card of the set, or if this will become a precedent for mythics or legendary mythics.

As for the actual card, the first ability is obviously worthless since we'll almost never hardcast him.  As for his second ability, isn't Sundering Titan better against most decks?  It's an immediate effect, you choose the lands getting blown up, and it'll trigger again if they bounce it.  The Butcher has to stick around to attack.  Admittedly, it'll kill more things (both in quantity and in types of cards), but waiting a turn before it has any effect is rough.  12/12 is certainly bigger than 11/11, but lack of trample is lame.

Playing with a Deed in the main and one in the board is huge.  Also is having some basic lands.  A playset of Misty Rainforest allows you to run an Island and a Forest, which will allow you to drop Oath in the face of Wastelands. 

Seconded on trying Sphinx of the Steel Wind again.  Fish can sometimes race Inkwell, if they have enough creatures out.  There's also Empyrial Archangel, which is still solid against aggro.