Muddle the Mixture  UU
Instant 
Counter target instant or sorcery spell.
Transmute 1UU (1UU, Discard this card: Search your library for a card with converted mana cost equal to this card's, reveal it, and put it into your hand. Then shuffle your library. Play this ability only any time you could play a sorcery.)

This card won't get you Oath or Walk, though you can use it in, lets say, Tog or even GAT. Muddle the Mixtures can get you Cunning Wish, Tinker, Intuition, Psychatog and other cards. Tutor away!

EDIT: Yay, nevermind that. I suck at reading magic cards.

Ape.

Would it be a dull game? Nobody says you have to use your bow and arrows. The point is, unban the 25 Megatonne bomb, and eventually the 20, 17 and 15 Megatonne bombs will be restricted. Ban it, and you will be able to happily throw around some of your 20', 17' and 15' bombs, because there is no need to restrict those anymore.

What's with the 1 Mishra's Factory? Wouldn't a 4th Tundra be better?

Ape.

I must admit that the foil powerproxies look awesome, but how stupid can you be to pay $255 (200 euros) for that??
Like Kowal says, nobody will allow them in any tournament as 'real' proxies.

Ape.

You mean Voidmage Prodigy. Voidmage Apprentice is the morph Wizard.
While you can do some nice tricks with Kai en Vials, but because there are no other wizards in the deck, it's always one time only. I don't think that Kai belongs here.

Ape.

Yeah, sure they clog up in your hand, but when playing Wild Mongrel, this shouldn't be a problem. There are also 4 Vials en 4 Chalices in the deck, and Vial nr. 3 and 4 are also useless, as are Chalice nr. 2, 3 and 4. Your 2nd and 3rd Ninja can actually do something (Why don't you do something! - LOL, Ape's friend who <3's Gush). Plus, you will draw your first one quicker and more often, and in need they can be discarded to Force of Will, since you don't run that much blue cards.

Akroma has Vigilance, First Strike and Flying. And Wild Mogrel is going to trump her? Not very likely, it means you need to discard 5 cards from your hand.

Ape.

First of all, congratz on your finish. The deck is really cool.
I immediately downloaded it for MWS, and got to play some games. I've only played a few (<20), but here are the things that got me thinking;

1. Wild Mongrel. While he is a really good beater, I don't like him in this deck. It's true that you can pitch the 'dead' cards to him, but he was always a bit slow, and much weaker than in, let's say, RG Beatz. What about Nimble Mongoose, the creature that will lead us to point 2;
2. I noticed that with this deck, it's quite easy to get 7 or more cards in your graveyard. Combining that with my thoughts on the weak Wild Mongrel and Birdsh*t in mind, I began to test Nimble Mongoose. I haven't test a lot with this guy, but he seems very powerful to me. A 3/3 can't-be-the-target body is not something you can easily ignore, but this guy has another role; Ninjutsuing out our Hero (I have a new best friend) on turn two. We could only do that with a turn 1 Rootwalla, or land + mox. Since we play only 2 moxes, the last situation won't come up that often. Playing 4 more 1-drops will result in more early Ninjas.
3. Spiketail Hatchling. Only usefull a couple of times, I think Waterfront Bouncer is definitely better in this slot. We don't have any removal, and this guy solely handles Angels, Colossus, Akroma's, Tog and random Fat. Really good.

Can you explain why you run three Ninjas? I know there aren't that many creatures to support more of them, but I played four form the beginning, and they really pwn. I think we can support four of these guys.

EDIT: How were the Kira's? How did they effect your games?

Ape.

Congratz on your high finish! I was there too, with my own version of RG, but I died horribly, eventually dropping in the end. I have a few questions;

First, would you want to make any adjustments to your deck for upcoming events? Which cards were better, or more usefull then you expected, and which cards sucked? Second, four Naturalizes seems like a lot, but without Null Rod, four may be necessary. What do you think about Null Rod? How were the 4 Emerald Charm in the sideboard. I saw a lot of Oath, but is 4 not to much?

And finally, were you with Team T1 Germany?

Ape.

Of course, Root Maze is also good when you play it later on in the game, but with very different purpose.

A Root Maze on the first turn means mana denial for both players (and very likely an advantage for you), and a Root Maze later on in the game is either a dead card or a huge threat for your opponent, depending of the deck he or she is playing. Dragon, Sensei Sensei etc. can't go off if there is a Root Maze in play.
It really depends on what your opponent is playing, but the including of Wild Mongrel in this deck will make sure that Root Maze is never a 'really dead' card.

Freelancer, remember that you can't equip the Mask of Memory under a Null Rod.

Ape.

Generic: I believe you when you say your deck is fast, but without tempo disruption, you won't win against faster deck, like, every combo deck out there, and a lot of other ('slower') decks which can lock you in the turns that you play your Kird Apes and Forks. Including (tempo)disruption cards like Null Rod, Root Maze etc. is what gives this deck a chance against other decks.

I created a RG list myself, which I will play in the Paris tournament next weekend. I play a lot more hate and less creatures maindeck. I think the deck is slower than most other RG Beatz around, but I think that the disruption is more important than the early (less efficient) beats.


RG beatz, by Ape 2005

Manas: 22
4 Mountain
1 Forest
4 Taiga
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
4 Elvish Spirit Guide

Beats + Utility creatures: 15
4 Wild Mongrel
3 River Boa
2 Gorilla Shaman
2 Goblin Vandal

4 Rancor

Hate: 13
4 Null Rod
4 Root Maze
3 Red Elemental Blast
2 Naturalize

Burn: 10
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Chain Lightning
3 Price of Progress

Sideboard: 15
2 Naturalize
2 Emerald Charm
2 Blood Moon
4 Pyrostatic Pillar
2 Ground Seal
3 Grim Lavamancer

Maindeck: 60
Sideboard: 15

Yeah, that's right; Red Elemental Blast maindeck. I decided to put them maindeck because they are such a powerhouse against so many decks. Countering a Thirst for Knowledge, Mana Drain, Ancestral Recall or AK, you can do a lot with this card. When useless, they can easily be sided out or discarded to Wild Mongrel.

I used to play a lot more critters; good critters, like Goblin Vandals and Grim Lavamancers. I decided to put the Lavamancers in the sideboard, because there were not enough targets for this dude to justify 4 spots in the maindeck for him. Now I play three in the side.
I don't really understand why people play Kird Ape and other second rang critters. Despite his cool name, , he is just a 2/3, and we all agree that River Boa's and Wild Mogrels are better. Why not let them do the job, and play more hate? Same goes up for Hidden Gibbons and Skyshroud Elites.

I think I don't have to explain all the hate. A single Root Maze alone fucks up Dragon, Sensei, SlaverLock and Meandeck Tendrils, and will give SSB, Welderdecks, TPS etc. a big problem to solve.
The only thing I'm not really confident about is my sideboard. While Blood Moon can be a winner/bomb, I don't know if it belongs in this deck. Three mana is not nothing, and I sometimes really doubt its power because of the basics still being played everywhere. I need a sideboard makeover  

Any critics on the deck? Please, please tell me what is wrong and what is good.
Next week I will post the results of the coolest Vintage tournament ever.

Note: Although I own a Mox Emerald and could probably borrow a Mox Ruby and Black Lotus, I decided not to play them. This is because I don't think I will make Top8 in Paris (You will have to play 9-0-0 or 8-0-1...), but I might get a chance of winning one of the prizes awarded to the 8 highest non powered decks, which are also awesome by the way.

And, like a friend of mine said, I will have an excuse if I get ass-kicked in Paris

Thank you,

Ape.

Well, therefore he talks about it as the MeanDeck version, and not as Meandeck SSB 

Ape.

 

I agree with E Face about the extra beaters, but what do you all think of Werebear? Is the 'can't be the target' really that good? I personally like the 4/4 bearbody, but never really tested the Mongoose. Enlighten me please. Lavamancers in the side against Fish, Landstill or other little aggro decks seems like a great plan to me. In my testing with various Gro lists Manlands and pesky little fliers were huge a problem. Fire/Ice does a great job to solve that problem, but can't always keep up against Faeries and Manlands.

Btw, what happened to the good old Land Grant. A great way to fetch out some lands and reducing the chance on drawing them.


GuruGro / Ape Gro GRU, by Ape 2005

Draw/Search (11)
1 x Ancestral Recal
4 x Brainstorm
4 x Sleight of Hand
2 x Serum Visions
1 x Gush
1 x Mystical Tutor

Critter Control (4)
4 x Fire/Ice

Kill (8)
4 x Quirion Dryad
4 x Werebear / Nimble Mongoose

Counters (11)
4 x Force of Will
3 x Pyroblast
3 x Daze

Other (1)
1 x [Timewalk]
2 x More metagame slots

Mana (21)
1 x [Black Lotus]
1 x [Mox Ruby]
1 x [Mox Pearl]
1 x [Mox Jet]
1 x Mox Emerald
1 x Mox Sapphire
4 x Fetchlands
4 x Tropical Island *
3 x Volcanic Island *
4 x Island

* When playing Land Grant, I would play at least 1 Taiga.
I have been toying with various Gro lists in the last few months, and this one looks really promising to me.

Ape.

Actually, it was is the original post;

ESG: If I had 4, I would play 4, but since only power cards are allowed to proxie, I can play only 1

By the way, what is RTFP standing for anyways?

Ape.

I'm not sure if he is allowed to do that, since only 'real' power can be proxied.

Replace the Skyshroud Ridgebacks with something else, Rogue Elephant rocks. The Ridgeback dudes only deal 4 damage maximum, which is not very good. Also, maybe you could replace some creatures with more disruption, like Oxidizes, Elvish Lyrist, Elvish Scrappers etc.

Discozombie and I created a very controllish mono green deck. It can be found here; http://www.themanadrain.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=21527
Maybe it can help you with your deck.

Good luck at the tournament!

Ape.

Wow, looks classic. I like it  

1. Do you really think you need the Strips in de side? Wouldn't it be better if you were playing some more disruption, like Ground Seal for example?
2. What do you think of the Elite's?
3. Maybe a bit strange, but what do you think of Xantid Swarms sideboard? They help you playing your stuff, resolve cards like Seals versus Oath etc, etc.

Anyway, I like your deck.

Ape.

Indeed, Sapphire would be the best choice.

I agree with Malhavoc on the point of StP and Fire/Ice. However, at the previous (local) tournament over here I was playing Oath and got screwed big time by Hull Breach. Hull Breach, Rack and Ruin, Fire/Ice and other artifact/enchantment removal may make red an intresting color to splash.

Ape.

He mentioned Yawgmoth's Bargain, not Yawgmoth's Will  

Ape.

I must say, I like the deck, more than every other RG/Tempo/Beats deck. Maybe 'cause I have affinity for Quirion Dryads, but mostly the classic style style of the deck. Back to the days of 4 Lightning Bolt and 4 Jackal Pup!  

With already 18 one-mana burn spells who will at least deal 1 damage (Grim, Fanatic, Bolt, Chain, Blast) maindeck, I don't think you will need the Incinerate's. Maybe you can play Blood Moon instead? Although most players fear Wastelands, Blood Moon is still a bomb.

The three open sideboard slots; play Naturalize. They double as artifact and Oath removal.

As for the Jackal Pups, why not Kird Ape? Assuming that most of the times you will have a Forest, 2/3 is just better than 2/1. Also, would Gorilla Shaman work? Maybe even instead of Null Rod? A bit controversial, but hey, we are talking about Sligh

$0.02

Ape.

Ninja of the Deep Hours draws you a card, and has Ninjutsu 1U, which is not expensive IMO.

Ninja of the Deep Hours  3U
Creature - Human Ninja
Ninjutsu 1U
Whenever Ninja of the Deep Hours deals combat damage to a player, you may draw a card.
2/2

I don't think Blurred Mongoose is good enough. Yes, it is uncounterable, and yes, it is untargetable, but it attacks on turn three, which is very, very late. Maybe you should look for a cheap haste critter for your Ninja's?

Ape.

Could you first maybe explain some of your card choices? Which cards are suiting well in this deck, how does the deck play, what would you want to change, et cetera.

This can hulp us, the other users of TMD, to finetune your deck and help you

Ape.

No, not really. Since we play 8 eight mana elves, 4 ESG's and 4 Land Grant, we will have enough mana to activate all the Genju's we want

As for the Elite's; They are less powerfull nowadays, since everybody fears Wasteland, and thus plays basics. The River Boa's are not strong enough IMO. They need mana to survive, and are 'only' 2/1, while the Genju's are 4/4.

Ape.

I'm not sure. There is already a WW/UW topic, and I think Mono Red and Mono Black are very weak colors at the moment. Maybe we can do something like EBA.

I also want a deck where I can play In the Eye of Chaos in    
That card is evil! What would you think about a WUB deck?



I just don't get this. Everybody is saying this, but A) How many TPS decks will you play against in a tourney? B) You can do numerous things against TPS/Combo.dec. Play Root Maze, Arcane Lab/Rule of Law, play Aura of Silence, Pyrostatic Pillar, Stifle, everything! Against Stax en MWS.dec you can play Serenity, Sacred Ground and a lot of the cards mentioned above.


Ape.

@ Discozombie: I will definitly post any results I will make with this deck! You can count on me!  

@ Freelancer: When going to Eindhoven, I think I will use one of my stronger decks. An example; my own GAT. Ofcourse, the idea is not mine, but I just love to transform a deck suiting my own playstyle, mixing styles, make small adjustments and test all cards to the max.
The thing is, I do have most of the $ <30 cards, and I'm collecting my power now. I just like to play new decks, original decks and tweaking decks to my own style. That, plus my affinity for Stompy is why I like this deck.

I think we are all doing a great job on making or transforming decks, just because this gives new food for thoughts for both budget players and casual Vintage players, like myself. I like to win, but for example if I had the cards I would never play Stax of Slaver on a tournament. I don't say netdecking or something in that direction is bad, but isn't it much cooler to tweak some deck with some cool guys you have never seen in your life, and posting your results, ideas, playstyles and so on?

Either way, I love it  

Hi! I'm Nicander van Duijn, live in Amsterdam and play at all the in-range tourney's possible; Castricum, Leiden, Haarlem, Zaandam, Hoorn etc. I've also organized some tourney's myself in Amsterdam for semipower cards.

You should try to make this deck for Eindhoven! With the heavy powered metagmae there, a strong hate deck should be competative. The deck is actually very cheap and not hard to build.

When you still want to take WW, look at the topic right here: http://www.themanadrain.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=21198&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=30 .
I think that's the way to play WW nowadays.

Ape.

You are welcome I hope I have this deck finished by the time of the next tourney here, although I also want to test my new GAT build.



River Boa is a very good critter, but not really a threat unless you Rancor it. With other words; When you are playing River Boa, you should indeed also include Rancor, and there is no place for 8 other cards. You shouldn't cut on the hate-cards, and also the mana is very good now. In that way, you can only cut some monsters for a sub-optimal monster. Not a very good idea



That is exactly the reason why we didn't include Hidden Herd.



Yes and no. Pendelhaven can be wasted easily, which can turn out disasterous since you pack very litte land. On the other hand, Pendelhaven can save your little critters from being destroyed. The fact that you can't fetch it with a Land Grant isn't that important, but I don't think it is worth to include it.



Who are you, and where do you live?



We are not afraid for no stupid Lhurgoyf. Let them come. Hans will eat them alive!

With eight mana Elves right now, why not cutting the Werebears for Ankhs? In my testing Ankhs did the damage, and Werebear practicly functioned as a mana Elf for 1G which is, ofcourse, very bad.
I only managed to reach Threshold in 15% of the games I won. When only being a stupid mana Elf for two manas, I think Werebear is the one to get sacked.

HANS, by Ape, 2005

4# Hidden Guerrillas
4# Hidden Gibbons
4# Scavenger Folk
4# Viridian Zealot
4# Fyndhorn Elves
4# Llanowar Elves
4# Genju of the Cedars

4# Null Rod
4# Ground Seal
4# Root Maze
4# Ankh of Mishra

4# Land Grant
4# Elvish Spirit Guide
8# Forest

SB
4# Xantid Swarm
4# Druid Lyrist
4# Elvish Lyrist
3# Choke?

Manas: (sideboard not included)
G: 28
1G: 8
GG: 4
2: 8


Ape.