I'm interested in knowing how often a guy playing this deck is sitting on dead cards.  (Mainly the extra copies of Legendary cards, as well as Chalices and Rods) Especially if you're playing on the draw, are 4 maindeck Chalices what you want to have?

Another concern when I look at the decklist is there is not a draw engine (save the Recall.)  I understand the creatures are fatter than normal fish decks, but is that good enough to give up some hand replenishing engine? (I know a lot of fish decks ran stuff like Curiosity and Ninja)

This statement is extremely bold, and not very well backed up:

"This deck is a significant upgrade over traditional U/W Fish lists that are prevalent (see Paul Nicolo's deck from SCG: Chicago in October). Meandeck Deck Wins has increases in all categories of performance including offensive firepower, proactive disruption, and mana stability. Now you have the ability to finish the kill before the opponent breaks out of the mana denial that was stunting his development. You have both Chalices and Rods to make it far more likely to see one every game in a relevant amount of time. And you don't clutter up a mana base that reliably has to hit W (W/U) on turn 2 a vast majority of the time with 9 colorless lands just so that you can have Mishra's Factories.
"

Apparently the ability to draw more than one card a turn is not a "category of performance."

To me, the ability to stay on top of the opponent in both board advantage and hand advantage is what made fish a different type of aggro from R/G beats.  It seems like this deck is trying to have the best of both worlds, but ultimately it looks like it suffers from both types of aggro's weaknesses.  The deck is forced to run mulitple cards that are dead in quantities greater than one.  Also, it has nothing to fall back on should something like a Pyroclasm resolve. 

I really felt the deck was presented as an ultimate deck to beat any environment.  It shyed away from telling us about the underlying flaws the deck (at least to me) obviously has.

"Stax? No problem, Kataki your board. Gifts? Nice True Believer, good man. Gifts Oath? You sir, have no mana and then you do nothing relevant before your life total is erased. Grim Long? Chalice, Rod, Believer, Mage. Smash you? Heh. And so on."

It's like the author is handing himself a prize because he's running extra hate cards and Savannah Lions instead of draw power and Flying Men.

I have to agree with Chamelet here.  Most of the 4 ofs ran in type one decks are cards that are *useful* no matter what.

It would also seem to me that running this engine in Oath is opening up yourself to a whole new realm of hate cards.

I'm happy you're enjoying this project deck, but just looking at the deck on paper, I'm willing to bet you get opening hands that don't need Bazaar, or LFTL to win...at all.  Like the same chances as I will be making love to a woman tonight...zero.

Another point I'd like to make is this; Oath's ability to run Ground Seal was a feature that always seemed to fair well for the deck.  And piss me off as a man who enjoys his Goblin Welders.  Why give that up for a 3rd rate draw engine?

I don't want to come across like I'm shooting you down here man.  Maybe I'm missing a piece of the puzzle myself, but it appears you're tring to fit a different exhaust system on a car that already runs perfect.

Never be the guy saying, "Then my deck just crapped out on me."

If you want to think of yourself as a "specialist" or "generalist" great.

I've always believed in playing the deck you're most comfortable with.

I think it's important to know the major styles of decks and their stradegys, but I don't think it's imporant for any player to say, "Yes, I've top-8'd with every deck invented, and that's why I'm going to win."

If you think knowing every deck inside out will make you a better player, you're absoulutly right.  However, it's not the kind of stuff that wins tournaments.

Unless you find time to go around and write down what everybody's playing, you must instead develop the skill to identify your opponents stradegy quickly.  Some prior knowledge to the type of deck he's playing is vital here, but knowing every card choice and tactic is not.

The simple fact that people build decks differently than the lists provided on the internet proves that nobody can ever have enough experience with Magic to be ready for every match.

Instead of working with other people's ideas, work on your own.  If you do this enough, you'll have more of an immediate advantage than anybody.

I'd try to find some room for Daze, to me it's the most annoying card to play against.

I'd also suggest finding the 4th Force of Will...otherwise you'll have 2 cards in hand, have a combo player at 2 life and he'll say, "Attempt to cast Foil, signed Japanese Yawgmoth's Will."  You'll do something like, "Pitch Ninja to cast my proxy Force of Will."  And now you turned a simple game of Magic into running for your life from a guy yelling, "I told you! You wouldn't like me when I'm angry!"

As a newcomer to Type 1, I would say Control Slaver would be a fine deck to play.  A lot of people seem to believe that, "Control Slaver is an easy deck to play, but a very hard to deck to play well."

The build of Control Slaver you want to play really depends on what decks you expect to play against.  Like most decks, there isn't one "perfect" build, instead there are builds that do well in the field they are played.  Just look at the Decklists for Control Slaver in the Vintage Championship Top 8, they were modified to do well in the anticipated environment.

I would suggest starting with a build of Control Slaver that is more built just to do its own thing, rather than a meta-gamed version.  Basically find a list without cards like Mainboard Rack and Ruin, Masticores, or Jesters Cap, and learn to play that deck to its fullest.  Learn to do well in match-ups against other Drain decks by saying things like, "At the end of your first mainphase..." or, "Declare my attack phase, second mainphase..."

Once you start to feel confident in how to play Control Slaver to its fullest, then I'd say it's time to look at how people have tweaked the deck to have better match-ups against other decks.

On the topic of the inclusion of Crucible lock in CS:  I've played with and without it, and I would have to say that it's worth the slot in the deck.  Not only is it a hardcastable lock component, but it offers more flexability to the deck (in the form of early game Stip Mine soft-lock.)  Espeically for a newcomer to Type 1 and CS I would recommend playing with Cruicible in Slaver.

Hope this helps  

Great report and congratz on the top 4 finish!  Dragon kind of makes me wonder why I keep playing Tendrils based combo sometimes =/

I agree with Disburden entirely.  Play what you want to play and focus on getting good with the deck.

Try not to look at former T8s and decklists too much, maybe make slight changes based on those lists (sideboard slots & maindeck meta slots), but avoid forcing yourself to play a deck simply becuase its match-ups seem alright based on a top8 from a month ago.

I know it's been mentioned before but I also think 10 proxy is a good number.  I know prices are high on everything like dual lands, fetch lands, a set of FoWs, and all the stupid cards I've bought over the years.  But I think that's a good thing.

While in a perfect world you could walk into a bar, order a drink light up a smoke and sit down across from a fellow gamer and say, "Howdy stranger, feel like a game?"  After which you'd both pull out a deck and play for ante, laughs, and the joy of the game.

However, this is the year 2005, and if you said "Howdy stranger, feel like a game?" you'd most likely end up in court for sexual harrassment.  Aside from that, the funnest games of Magic are (in my opinion) at large and competitive tournaments.  Type one is never going to be as popular and accessible let's say...darts.

The price of "staples" up to about the value of dual lands is to me the "buy in" of Type 1.  The more serious and devoted the player gets, the more time and money that player will devote.  But where should the line be drawn as to how much cash the player should have to fork over per card?

The answer?  Very simple.  Twenty-five US dollars.  So rock on with 10 proxy tournaments in my opinion.  Theres places to play in 10 proxy tournaments and from my experience at 40-60 man tournaments with power for the prize, the compition is usually pretty stiff.

The fact that Gen-Con is no-proxy is part of what makes it so fun to me.  Type one isn't "inacessible" right now, but if you want to top 8 at Gen-Con you're going to need some money cards, but that's fine...it's Gen-Con.

Other than that, you can peice together a deck for a 10 proxy event for about the cost of a set of golf-clubs.  A fish-player can do this for about the cost of a bowling-ball.

I don't think you need Spoils.  The only deck I've ever used Spoils in are decks running 3-4 disruption cards, so basically combo decks hell-bent on turn one kills.  You run enough disruption to not have to put the game on the line over finding a Mask or Naught at instant speed.

Mainly just Chalice and Cruicble is what I cut.  In playtesting it was performing good against CS and WTF, the following Friday I played it at a 5 proxy mox tournament and started with an average opening hand of 5.5 cards.

I thought by more draw power and threats, and less lock down components I'd be doing better as far as taking Mulls, but often the mana I had in my opening hands wasn't enough to support the beef.  That and the 2x Titans I ran showed up for the party when he wasn't invited, opening style...all night ><

It was an intersting build, I'm not setting it down, but she needs some work yet =)

Being that by chosing to go with a BR Mask-naught deck I think that you have to cut down on the randomness of some cards (simply that you can't rely on a powerfull draw engine and get away with running 1 ofs like CS or something)

While cards like Jitte, Chains, Diabolic Edict and Yawgmoth's Will can be powerfull, I'm just not sure they're the correct calls for this deck.

This deck reminds me a lot of a UBR Goblin deck that New Castle, my friend and I designed.  When we were thinking about what type of disruption to run we came to a descion.  Our only draw/psuedo draw power was Ringleaders and Ancestral...so whatever disruption we used had to be a 3 or 4 of, and it had to stack, meaning that 1 Bloodmoon is good, but 2 Bloodmoons is crap; 1 Chains of Mephstopheles is good, but 2 is better (although overkill, but you get my point)

By running 4x Shaman, 4x Duress and 5x Strip Effects the Rack and Ruins and the fast mana accel needed to blow up a Needle or something, you have almost enough disruption to hold off people long enough for a 12/12 Trampler to run them over.  In all honesty I don't think you need Withered Wretch or the 2 Jittes or 2 Chains.  Once again the last 2 ofs I mentioned just seem to Random.

Perhaps you were thinking of Wretch when playing against Welder decks that will weld out Naughts, but by freeing up slots you can run Skeletal Scrying...an awesome card that will take care of this issue, whether it gets countered or naught. (so funny)

Take a deep breath and listen to my idea here:  Cut Yawgmoth's Will (and probably Wish as I assume Wish is incase Will gets Consult-pwnd) If you run Skryings, your yard isn't going to be huge, you're not running Timewalk or Ancestral, and most important, you can't put Dreadnaughts into play under mask on a Will turn.

Perhaps try something like this: Cut the following cards (11) 4 Withered Wretch, 2 Chains, 2 Jitte, 1 Y. Will, 1 Burning Wish, 1 Tainted Pact.  And bring in something close to this 4 Skeletal Scrying, 4 Nights Whisper, 1 Necropotence, 1 Mox Emerald, 1 Mana Crypt.  If you really want to be saucy, and since your running 4 Shaman and 5 Strips, you could run 2-3 Rhystic Tutor and cut the appropriate # of Nights Whisper.

You know when you're a professional Mask-Naught player when you get people to scoop to face down Gorilla Shaman  

Edit: My friends been playing with Illusionary Mask for a long time, I onced scooped in playtesting to a face down Bayou and face down Birds of Paradise, I died a little inside.

Although I have limited experience playing Oath, one card I always thought nifty for builds runnign multiple Cunning Wishs would be Brand.

It obviously has limited usefullness and most builds posted only have 5 sources of red.

Also, I have to agree Scrying is > Intuition AK.  Especially when running Cunning Wish, in a very tight situation you can get fancy and Wish up a removed Brainstorm to get the fat back where it belongs 

First of all I've been doing playtesting with different versions of U/R Shop Aggro with 4 Brainstorms.  They've been an amazing help in several aspects of the deck(s).  First of all it's easier to keep opening hands with some reliable draw power in them, so I've been mulliganning less.  Second they make it easier to overwhelm opponents mid-game (assuming they dealt with the initial onlslaught)  This has all been tested with the same mana base, sporting 4 Volcanics and 3 Fetchs.

As far as the prison elements I've been trying/thinking about, it seems Tanglewire would be a strong option.  I'll start my explanation with the Metagame around here, it's nothing but Fish (of all styles and variants) and Control Slaver, also a healthy chunk of Oath.  And every deck I face seems to be running Tinker/Collossus.  Anyway, unless Chalice is set to 2, it will have negative effects on most Shop builds.  Granted by the shop player running chalices he can chose what to set them at after weighing out the consequences.  People are also gunning for Chalice, with Gorilla Shaman popping up more and more.

I've been running a lighter prison element featuring only 3 Tanglewires and 1 Trinisphere.  If more is needed, it's brought in for games 2 and 3.  The absence of Crucible may seem odd at first, epecially in a deck like mine that runs 5 Strip effects, but this isn't Stax, we really only need enough distruption to make sure our opponents don't get fancy and deal with our Juggs.

As for the Aggro portion, I might be biased by having run CS for so long, but Goblin Welder is just too sick to set down.  In my deck I'm running Sword of F/I, which can turn any creature in this deck into Batman (Even the Goblins)  Another element I've tried and enjoyed some success with is running Anger and Wonder.  By bringing haste and flying into a deck with beaters and Welders, sealing the deal can be very easy.  The only liablity here is that you need a Volcanic in play, and the only outlets are usually TFK and Masticore and to some extent Jar. 

One thing I enjoy when playing against Fish is the sheer threat density I have can usually overrun them.  Brainstorm makes a lot of that possible, making sure my hand is optomized for my plan.  In the past one thing I've hated about Shop decks is I have very little control over what cards are in my hand.

First of all, I'm happy to see innovation making Fish decks competetive.  With 5-10 proxy tournaments becoming more common in my area, it's very easy for players with limited card pools to make decks that have a chance.  Most of these decks wind up being close to popular U/W and "WTF" builds.

I suppose it is easy to link the numbers Fish is posting, both in T8 finishes and sheer number of people playing Fish, to an "unstoppable" type of deck.  Personally, it's that line of thinking that leads to ignorance and sometimes 2 round tournaments.

The only thing Fish has going for it, is that so many people are playing it and constantly innovating with it.  If your opponent is playing Control Slaver, you can probably think of roughly 50ish cards he's running...and what his game plan is.  When sitting across a Fish player it's not always clear what cards he's playing, or how he's going to acheive the goal of making your day so rough, he wins with 1-2 drop spells or man-lands.

So how do you beat not just one decklist of Fish, but beat the archetype of Fish?  Innovate.  Make the Fish player do some guessing as to what is comming his way.  Knowing what lands to Waste, what to set chalice at, what to name with Mage, and what to Force, are a Fish players best weapons.  I constantly see good players make bad decisions against Fish for seemingly no reason.

There is however a reason, people seem to unknowingly take an opponent opening turn such as, "Wasteland -> Vial -> Chalice for 0, go," and immediatly think they're going to lose from the tempo difference now on the board.  In doing so they already accept they're playing Fish's game, instead of whatever strategy their deck had to begin with. 

Basically, don't make play mistakes, don't lose perspective, don't plan on beating Fish by simply running "better, more broken cards," and it doesn't hurt to turn fish into a favorable match-up...use the number of people playing fish to your advantage.

I think this card is plenty good.  It's not only good against decks like CS, it hurts almost every major T1 deck out there.  The ease of casting it and the major effects it can have suggest that this card will definatly be popping up in simple tempo based decks.  If nothing else, it will definatly allow time for the tempo player to gain card, board control, and position advantage on their opponent.

To me, this card is vastly superior to Null Rod.

Congratulations on the finish man.  Thanks again to Jason for another awesome tournament.

That was my buddy Tony playing Workshop w/ Mask/Naut, your 3rd round opponent.  He told me about that Woodripper about 6 times on the way home.

Also, ThatOneguy, I think I was your 2nd round opponent (playing a Workshop Slaver/Aggro hybrid) I remember you casting an Intuition, and shortly thereafter telling me you forgot to include an Artifact Land in your deck.

I was so ready to see Control Slaver everywhere, I had a SB plan ready to deal with it.  And my first round I die to a Goblin deck that abused Sneak Attack.  I was just so happy to see Control Slaver after that  

Yeah, I guess I didn't realize it was 3:30 am  

I take back the slops  

I've been going to the Adventuters Guild for a long time.  Not too long ago Nate (the store owner) decided to start having mox tournaments with 5 proxies.  They have been drawing quite a crowd, which is awesome.  Eau Claire's Type 1 environment has really been changing because of all the different people coming and playing different decks ect.  We had 33 people show up for this one.

I had thought about playing a U/W standstill deck, but a buddy asked to borrow my drains for his Oath deck, so I played the deck I've been working on since GenCon 2004:

4 Juggernaut
4 Trinisphere
4 Goblin Welder
4 Thirst for Knoledge
3 Chalice of the Void
2 Tanglewire
1 Grim Monolith
1 Mindslaver
1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Tinker
2 Crucible of Worlds
1 Triskilion
1 Duplicant
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Black Lotus
1 Darksteel Collosus
1 Masticore
1 Razormane Masticore
1 Sol Ring
1 Windfall
1 Sundering Titan
1 Memory Jar

4 Mishra's Workshop
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Shivan Reef
4 Volcanic Island
3 Wasteland
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Strip Mine
1 Libriray of Alexandria

Sideboard
2 Shere of Resistance
2 Rack and Ruin
3 Red Elemental Blast
2 Rushing River
1 Regress
2 Seal of Removal
3 Fire and Ice
-------------

Yeah, not a very good sideboard, and it's 61 cards.  I never ran LoA in it, but my buddy Tony was like, "You never use that thing, why don't you put it in your deck?"  So I figured what the hell why not.

Why "Regress" in the sideboard you might ask.  Once again, no real good explanation.  It should probably be a 3rd rushing river, or an extra Duplicant.

Enough about that, lets move on to the games.

Round One Jayd Phelps with U/R landstill.

Game one: I open up with Ancient Tomb, Sol Ring Trinisphere.  That got FoW'd.  Jayd Wastes the Tomb and passes the turn.  I rip a Workshop and lay down a Razormane Masticore.  Unfortunatly that got FoW #2.  Jayd draws what must have been a Mox, plays that an Island and a Standstill.  I break standstill with a Welder, but he doesn't stay around very long due to Fire/Ice.  I think the first threat I get on the board was a Juggy, due to an insane amount of Mana Leaks and Counterspells.  Jayd did a bit of a risky move though, he tapped out to swing with Fairys *and* lay a Nev's Disk.  It was pretty late game at this time, I think I had gotten Jayd down to around 5 life.  Anyway I had enough mana to cast and activate a Mind Slaver.  What a massacre that turn was, Jayd top decked an Ancestral for me, and blew up 1/2 his lands with Nevs disk, did 2 points to himself with Fire, and tapped out with only a Mana Leak and no way to cast it.  I got my Tinker off the Ancestral as well as Welder #3.  I bring out the Titan, leaving Jayd with 1 land, cast the Welder and say go.  Jayd scoops.

Game #2.  U/R Landstill has just a couple hate cards for Workshop decks.  Jayd drops a stack of about 8 cards and says, "Well these are comming in for sure."  However Jayd mulls to 5, while I have a pretty solid hand of 7.  He plays a fetch and says go.  I open up with Mana Crypt, Ancient Tomb, Masticore.  Jayd misses a land drop, and I start swingin.  I get out a Trisk by way of the REB.  That might have been counted up as a Mistake, because the next card Jayd played was E-Flux.  Unfortunatly by that point, I had the land base to support the beaters.

The funny thing is, I won the game with like 5 life from that stupid Crypt and Tombs =/

Record: 1-0-0

Round 2 Andy Heiser w/ 2 land belcher.

Game one: He wins the dice roll, which is HUGE in this match-up.  Heiser opens up with Mox, LED, Mana Vault.  I figure I'm dead next turn, but procede to play a Trinisphere off a Workshop anyway.  Luck was on my side though, because Andy never found a belcher.  He scoops with Chalice for 1 and 4 on the board.  I guess he forgot he still had Tinker :p

Game two: I'm not going to lie, I had one of those hands that 2 land belcher has to kill me turn 1.  Andy opens up with a Mana Crypt, ESG->Tinder wall, into a Mana Vault and Grim Monolith.  Once again, no belcher though.  I open up with a savage play of Black Lotus, Workshop, Trinisphere, Tanglewire.  Sorry Andy  

Record 2-0-0

Round 3 Ian Degraff with 'Tog.

Game 1:  I might have gotten games 1 & 2 mixxed up.  I *think* it was game #1 that I beat him.  Trinisphere and chalice was enough to slow down Ian in enough time for a couple of Juggys to go the distance.

Game 2:  Ian gets a solid mana base under his feet, and turns a Juggernaut into a Mind Twist for all my cards, by use of a well placed Drain.  Caught with the hand in the cookie jar.  Looking back I should have scooped when Ian was deciding which counterpells to discard, and I was hoping for a good top deck.

Game 3:  Neither of us really get off to the races, we go to time and draw.

Record 2-0-1

Round 4 (Sorry for forgetting your name) Playing Salvagers

Game 1: I really don't know what he is playing.  I lost to an early Tinker -->Darksteel Collosus.  I did actually find my Duplicant, but he got an Exaulted Angel out there also.  I die a horrible, horrible death.

Game 2: He mulls to 5.  I get out a Workshop and a Sol Ring and a Juggy.  He plays a Ruby and says go, I swing for 5, and play a 2nd Juggy.  He misses a land drop and scoops.

Game 3: I still don't know what on earth he is playing.  I start out by getting a Trinisphere Forced.  I get a Stip mine and start to kill his White mana, and I resolved a Cruicible.  From there I got a Titan into play, along with a Chalice for 0, 1 and 2.  Needless to say, this game was pretty one sided.

Record 3-0-1

Round 5 Jeremy Zwirn and I draw into the top 8.

Record 3-0-2

Quarter finals Brad Ojala with 3cc

Game 1: This match is a little hazy.  They were really long games, I think game 1 Brad held me off really well with removal spells, and eventually the Exalteds got the dirty work done.

Game 2:  I think I got a Trinisphere into play and got some threats down and a Chalice for 2.

Game 3:  This was a nail biter.  The game boiled down to Brad emptying his hand to Tinker a Darksteel out, but I Rushing river it and get a Juggy through for the kill.

Semi-Finals Ian Degraf with 'Tog

Game 1:  Ever get that hand that looks soooo sweet, but you know you just should throw it back?  Well I keep a hand consisting of this: Mana Crypt, Chalice, Chalice, Trinisphere, Tanglewire, Juggernaut, Thirst.  I go first and open with Mana Crypt, chalice for 0, chalice for 1.  Ian plays a land and says go.  I top deck Tolarian Academy and punch out a Trinisphere.  After that Ian was pretty squandered for ways to kill stuff, he does wish up a Rushing River to bounce back my Juggy to gain 1 more turn, but he scoops.

Game 2:  I scoop when Will goes off.  The whole 0 card hand vs 7 card hand thing can be a killer.

Game 3:  Ian mulls to 6, I open with Workshop Trinisphere.  Ian sighed, but it resolved, and I went on to victory before Ian was able to get a solid mana base.

Well, me and Jeremy Zwirn split in the finals because it was 3:30am and splitting just seemed like a good idea.

The only thing I used in my SB all night was pretty much REBs, and Rushing Rivers.  Oh, and Seal of Removals against Ian.

I think for the next Mox Tournament I'll take notes, so I can make a pwnsauce report next time.  Sorry this thing was so undetailed, working off memory is not good.

Props:
All the great people who showed up.
Taco Johns for being open so late.
Wizards, for unrestricting a stupid stupid card.

Slops:
Taylor, Todd and all the other WoW junkies that would rather play that game that Magic...seriously guys wtf!
Wizards, for unrestricting a stupid stupid card.
Tony for scrubbing out!
Jake for taking off 1/2 way through Ian and my game in the quarter finals, so you could go home and play WoW.

Hey man!  I was your 4th round opponent, it was a Duplicant that I used game #1 to get rid of the big man.

That was a very fun tournament, I think I'll get around to making a report of it myself.