Holy crap. I disappear for a couple of months then the DCI then decides to suck up to the Vintage community.

My first impressions of this card were:
- win more
- impressive but ultimately useless

Upon closer inspection, I feel that the card is one of the most broken cards printed in a while, since Gifts Ungiven.

Once this thing hits play, you essentially have more mana to work with, since you can just dump all your artifact mana onto the board from the library.

And this thing combos with the 3rd best card in Vintage..... Time Walk. Dump your artifacts onto the board, then use the mana + tutor to Time Walk, then just stomp your opponents with 5/5's. Simple and effective. Painter is also an easy kill.

Also, as it is currently worded, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that you can untap 0 artifacts to up the loyalty count as the text reads "untap UP TO two target artifacts".

Also, I'm not quite familiar with the rules, but can this thing be targetted by "remove permanent" spells? ie bounce?

I have an older Toshiba Satellite laptop, and it's been running strong for about 2  years now. It's taken quite a beating. I've dropped it a few times, and even banged up the ethernet port as well. Haven't had to service it at all.

Just one advice. If you plan to play any games which require relatively intense graphics rendering, then get a laptop that has a good graphics card, as you will not be able to change it.

<$1000, with extended warranty. 1.8 GHz, 1Gb ram, Intel Graphics Card, 60Gb Hdd. Nowadays, you can get approx twice the specs quoted at the same price.

Before I answer any questions, I think a new manabase is in order.

        4 Forbidden Orchard
        1 Flooded Strand
        2 Polluted Delta
        1 Island
        1 Tropical Island
        3 Underground Sea
        1 Glimmervoid
        1 Tolarian Academy

Pretty much replace City of Brass, Gemstone Mines and all but one Glimmervoid for a normal manabase. It plays so much better as you don't have to worry about your life total/lands crumbling etc. It pretty much makes no difference to your ability to cast a spell of certain colours consistently. I'm thinking of cutting the leftover Glimmervoid as well. Maybe another basic would be good.

The other change I've made is
- 1 Cunning Wish
+1 Brainfreeze

Moving it to the maindeck is so much more efficient.

Now onto the replies.

Correct.

Yeah, Deep Analysis was just a trial card. I took it up on someone's suggestion, but my honest opinion is that heavy card drawing is a waste of time. Those card swaps were the exact same ones I was thinking of too, however in testing, Ritual was a bit of a dead card at times. Ritual does make Tendrils an option though.

What's important is the lead up to the turn you Gifts. If you're holding Gifts, with no Tyrant in play, you want to stock your grave/hand with accelerants. Setups like Intuition --> Crypt, Vault, Mox/Ritual ( if you play it), the turns before the Gifts are often overlooked.


Both are certainly viable. However, the goal of the design was to add more ways to put Tyrant into play. I was seriously considering Show and Tell, which has been used successfully in Oath before. I was also thinking of Burning Wish + Grapeshot in the SB before I swapped manabases.


Portent is too weak. You WANT to see the card now, rather than later.


With CS as topdeck, Goblins isn't terribly relevant at the moment, so I haven't done much testing. I think Oath is more than capable of racing Goblins. Earwig squad does concern me, and I'm not sure if Force + thoughtseize is enough. You can always look to tweak the sideboard if this turns out to be a bad matchup.

Thanks for the awesome replies guys.

A very interesting list indeed. You seem to have gotten better responses in your thread than mine. Most probably due to the depth of your opening post. Congrats.

I don't really wanna hi-jack your thread, but I suggest that people check out the thread "Epiphany: Tyrant Oath Reanimator". There I present the premise of the addition of Reanimation spells to Bazaar Oath, and also present a cursory list, and a heavily refined list.
Please please please try out the refined list. It plays so well as a combo list. It is not primarily a beatdown list, although you can definitely win that way. I don't want to hijack this thread, so I won't post the list here or make comparisons, but definitely check the thread out.

@arkmagus
Also, some questions about your list. You've made some interesting card choices, but when I look over your list, you have 24 mana sources, but the avg cc of your spells seems high. I know it's an uncounterable Wrath, but Decree of Pain seems too expensive, especially when Fish is attacking your mana base.

Flash of Insight is interesting, and may try it out myself. Have you dug deep often hardcasting it?

But Read the Runes seems excessive. Careful Study digs just as deep for 2 mana cheaper, and if you need to draw deeper than 3, you'd be better off using a tutor (ie Intuition). RtR doesn't gain you card advantage either. I don't really envision you wanting to sac your mana too often either. Granted they are nice in the mirror.

TfK. Have you ever found that you didn't wanna discard your artifact mana? I eschewed them in my list mainly because of this reason.

Was Krosan Reclamation ever useful? I don't see them being used very often.

It also seems like you have too many important cards at 2 cc. Workshop decks are already gonna be casting Chalice at 2 against you. It seems as if you it's gonna hurt you alot, as you have no way of getting tyrant into play if Chalice =2 hits.

Also, tourny report please!

[edit] : my mistake, on the Krosan Reclamation. My bad. lol

Hmmm. Cheers. That was the origin of the idea. I'm looking for more Intuition piles, so i may look into some of the dredge cards.


No..... That's a terrible idea...... Oathing up Dragon is just horrible, and this is not a Dragon deck.


Are you insane!!! Intuition is the best card in the deck. You obviously haven't played Oath before.


I'm seriously disappointed at the quality of the responses.....ugh.

I think TfK is interesting.... Not playing Intuition is definitely a mistake though. It's such an insane card in this deck, it's not funny.

I've refined my list some more. It's much more streamlined, and definitely much more powerful. I added the storm kill via CunningWish.

//NAME: Untitled Deck
        3 Bazaar of Baghdad
        1 Necromancy
        1 Animate Dead
        1 Reanimate
        1 Deep Analysis
        4 Force of Will
        3 Thoughtseize
        4 Oath of Druids
        3 Tidespout Tyrant
        1 Ancestral Recall
        1 Time Walk
        1 Demonic Tutor
        1 Vampiric Tutor
        1 Recoup
        1 Yawgmoth's Will
        1 Gifts Ungiven
        4 Intuition
        1 Cunning Wish
        1 Merchant Scroll
        1 Ponder
        1 Brainstorm
        1 Chain of Vapor
        1 Black Lotus
        1 Mana Crypt
        1 Sol Ring
        1 Mox Sapphire
        1 Mox Ruby
        1 Mox Pearl
        1 Mox Jet
        1 Mox Emerald
        1 Mana Vault
        4 Forbidden Orchard
        2 Glimmervoid
        1 Tolarian Academy
        3 Gemstone Mine
        4 City of Brass
SB:  1 Platinum Angel
SB:  2 Sundering Titan
SB:  1 Tinker
SB:  4 Leyline of the Void
SB:  1 Triskelion
SB:  3 Ancient Grudge
SB:  1 Fire // Ice
SB:  1 Brain Freeze
SB:  1 Rebuild

I think that 3 Reanimation spells are optimal, unless you're playing in a counterspell heavy environment, in which you'll need to ram more spells at them.

They're all restricted cards. Gifts only shows up in your hand every now and then. It's sort of like route B if Tyrant doesn't work out. And it's even more powerful with Tyrant in play. Of course, if you get a retarded Gifts hand, you can play it as such.

Honestly, I don't think I should have posted a list. I get stupid questions pertaining to the decklist, when the premise of my post is this: why not add Animate Dead/Necromancy/ Reanimate etc to Tyrant Oath with Bazaar as it gives you such and such benefits see opening post if you didn't read it. I didn't see Menedian's Bazaar Oath list before I posted this, and now that I have, I suppose it would be better to start from there instead of a list that started as a CA/Dragon Hybrid crammed with Tyrants.

You don't need insta kill abilities. Non-Stax decks have like 2 permanents max per game that you need to bounce before winning. This is an alternative route from Titan. Check out the Cerebral Assassin thread for that route.

I seriously think that Recoup is a must in this deck, and that Gifts inclusion naturally follows.

Oh no, I wasn't advocating Squee at all, just the Dragon kill. I think Living Wish is interesting except that I don't agree with the 4th Bazaar in the SB. Has 4 Deep Analysis been good for you? I'm using no card-advantage engine at all, and it has been semi decent to me.

I think you're right about RtR. I just wanted to try it out, as an extra way to get the Dragon kill condition into the yard if they waste your Bazaar

So I'm in exam period of the year. Staying true to form, I the master procrastinator turned to every single source of distraction. By the first two weeks, I'd exhausted all options. I withdrew all my money off the online poker site I'd been playing ( so I couldn't gamble as a form of procrastination). Lost the $45 I won in a freeroll on another site, since I couldn't withdraw without a deposit anyways. Turned to all forums, I think by the end of the two weeks, I'd been refreshing each forum page I visited regularly, like once every 10 min. So I turned to an old standby. The hobby that helped me procrastinate my way through high school. I thought I'd never talk about Magic again once I'd sold my cards. But I'm pretty desparate.

Anyway, I'd been fiddling around with Cerebral Assassin lists. I'd been messing round with adding the Dragon to the Maindeck, experimenting with different reanimate targets, and Living Wish as per advice from BreathWeapon. (Check the same forum for the thread). Then it hit me. Why not Tidespout Tyrant? It's a great utility creature, immune to Welder and has built in defensive/offensive capability. I had previously experimented with Oath in CA, and this seemed so dumbfounding-ly obvious why had noone thought of this before?

Previous Oath lists used to fight over resolving Oath. To protect Oath once it hit play. Why bother? I'll present a cursory list to instigate discussion and so you can get an idea of what I'm raving on about. Obviously this is not even close to fully tuned.

//NAME: Untitled Deck
        3 Bazaar of Baghdad
        2 Necromancy
        3 Animate Dead
        2 Careful Study
        4 Force of Will
        3 Duress
        4 Oath of Druids
        3 Tidespout Tyrant
        1 Ancestral Recall
        1 Time Walk
        1 Demonic Tutor
        1 Vampiric Tutor
        1 Yawgmoth's Will
        4 Intuition
        1 Merchant Scroll
        1 Ponder
        1 Brainstorm
        2 Chain of Vapor

        1 Black Lotus
        1 Mana Crypt
        1 Sol Ring
        1 Mox Sapphire
        1 Mox Ruby
        1 Mox Pearl
        1 Mox Jet
        1 Mox Emerald
        1 Mana Vault

        1 Tolarian Academy
        4 Forbidden Orchard
        2 Glimmervoid
        3 Gemstone Mine
        4 City of Brass

SB:  1 Platinum Angel
SB:  2 Sundering Titan
SB:  1 Tinker
SB:  4 Leyline of the Void
SB:  1 Triskelion
SB:  3 Ancient Grudge
SB:  3 Sacred Ground

Instead of fighting over Oath, or even bothering to protect it, just circumvent it by taking an alternate route. Or if your graveyard is being hated out, Go Oath. Few decks can fight against both. The animate plan has even greater synergy with Intuition, which has already proven it's worth in Oath lists. Now you don't even have to wait till your next upkeep to put Tyrant into play. Counterspells? Who the **** cares!!! This has the advantage of CA which is redundancy. ie just keep ramming animate spells/Oaths till one sticks.

Several things to mess around with:

-  Mana Base to be optimised
-  I feel that Gifts + Recoup should be in this deck somewhere. You can make some insane pile like animate spell+Oath+ theNutz
-  Careful Study needs to be reevaluated I think. It has been extremely useful, but I feel that there might be better options.
-  Leyline? and other meta cards obviously.
-  Other reanimate options? like Reanimate?
-  Show and Tell?
-  Card Advantage?

[EDIT: update for streamlined list]

Matchups:

Control Slaver - I think this crushes CS just by virtue of being an Oath deck.

Fish - Unsure, depends on the build. I'd imagine it to be slightly favourable.

Workshop - On one hand, you have no basic lands. On the other hand, you're an Oath deck. This'll be interesting to see. I think Stax and WS aggro will measure up differently.

Combo: They're faster. Probably unfavourable.

Thoughts anyone?

Otherwise, go nuts. Should you go on a tear with this deck, you can PM me about where to send half your winnings

Thanks for the awesome comprehensive reply. I had the exact thoughts on Dragon and Squee, so it looks like we should MD it, then board into Leyline/Chalice/Oath in the SB. Naturally, I'll increase the number of Intuitions.

The huge number of land was to support the rather large mana curve, which is weighted more toward 3&2 rather than 2&1.

I was thinking of trying out Read the Runes, just like in the most recent lists of Dragon of old. What do you guys think?

Also, Balance has been rather random for me. It's a bomb sometimes, and other times, I just throw it to Bazaar.

Come to think of it, last time I played you on MWS, you were experimenting with tech that made it's way into those same Dragon lists.
Btw, do you go by the same name on 2+2?

Yes. This is a recurring problem. One which I've been trying to fix. There are several options.

 - increase the number of Echoing Truths. This is also good in general against the now creature heavy meta.
 - add Berserk??? I've thought about this one for a while, and the more I like this idea. You can really surprise opponents by Berserking their Welder/Confidant in the RedZone, as well.
 - add Trike/ some other removal. This seems to be the clunky option. But I guess more space efficient than the Berserk option.
 - I've also thought about adding Cunning Wishes. But I never liked Wishes........


I've played around tons with Intuition. You never wanna see two in your hand, and you pretty much only want to see Intuition when you can't find Titans. I think upping the number to three is solid if you're playing the Dragon Alt. kill. Otherwise, TfK is good, as it allows you to fill your hand.

What decks will this be weak against? What will it be strong against? Is it a viable contender in today's metagame?

Yeah, I had the Dragons in there for a while, but after tanking for a bit, came to the realization that Leyline's and graveyard hate are gonna be everywhere. Hence the Oaths in the board instead. I actually had the Oaths Maindecked, but had to make room for more general cards like bounce.


OMG. I totally forgot about Balance. Easy addition.

Cut the Possessed Portal, because it is reliant on Squee. And now that Brainstorm is gone, making your opponent run Bstorm  into Portal ( one of the best plays btw) is gone. Squee is crap, as it's just a draw engine. You don't want a draw engine that's reliant on the graveyard. It's too slow anyway.

I was actually running Triskelion main instead of the 4th Titan, but decided to go for consistency. I can definitely see the need for it though.

Definitely look into the dredge cards.


Reanimates are terrible, as they cause you to lose too much life. Besides, Turn 2 is the optimal time to bring the Titan into play, as that's when it's Sundering effect is most powerful.



Where's the discussion on its viability in the new metagame???

Alright, so the DCI drops a nuke on the Vintage community. No biggie. Just bust out the killer weed.........or something that sounds like a serious retarding substance.

The metagame is in tremendous state of flux at the moment. I heard that Steve had postulated that Hulk Smash was gonna take up GAT's mantle as the blue combo deck. People are speculating that Shops, Ichorid are gonna be hot in the new format, now that blue combo is neutered. However, there remains a large amount of speculative decks that have yet to make they're presence known.

However, this is Vintage, and people are bound to play Dual Lands. That and with Menendian's Hulk list, I feel that it may catch on enough that 7/10 may be good again.

Here's a list for those who haven't played long enough to know what CA is.

NB that this is just a list to start discussion. It is not the end all or be all of CA lists, obviously. And it would do no good to nit pick over card choices. Make meta changes as you see fit. However, the main objective of this thread is to give people yet another option to take into the field and also to discuss it's viability in this wide open field.

//NAME: CA 4 T1.1
        3 Goblin Welder
        4 Bazaar of Baghdad
        2 Necromancy
        4 Animate Dead
        3 Careful Study
        3 Thirst for Knowledge
        4 Force of Will
        4 Sundering Titan
        1 Ancestral Recall
        1 Time Walk
        1 Tinker
        1 Demonic Tutor
        1 Vampiric Tutor
        2 Intuition
        1 Chain of Vapor
        1 Echoing Truth
        1 Rushing River
        1 Black Lotus
        1 Mana Crypt
        1 Sol Ring
        1 Mox Sapphire
        1 Mox Ruby
        1 Mox Pearl
        1 Mox Jet
        1 Mox Emerald
        1 Mana Vault
        1 Tolarian Academy
        2 Forbidden Orchard
        3 Underground River
        4 Gemstone Mine
        4 City of Brass
SB:  4 Oath of Druids
SB:  4 Leyline of the Void
SB:  1 Triskelion
SB:  3 Ancient Grudge
SB:  3 Sacred Ground

Back when I used to play, I regularly destroyed Sephiroth with MDG...... ah good times, good times.

I never said I was gonna go pro, or even look to it as a source of secondary income. If I were to play poker, it would be purely for the fun of it. I've been playing for a full year now, and so far it's been far cheaper than MtG (as in I actually made money in poker).


No I did not. I bought them with the intent of playing, but I haven't played a single Vintage match with them, and I can count on two hands the number of sessions I've used my cards. Thing is, I'm unsure as to whether or not I should sell now, or later once the format settles from the aftermath.

I haven't flopped a real physical magic card in years, let alone play an actual proper vintage match. I've always been on the fence about quitting magic, but with the recent swathe of restrictions, now seems like a better time than ever to sell up.

The cards are collecting dust, and my collection worth a few hundred dollars has been sitting on the shelf accumulating no value at all. Possibly even devaluing. The money is of a meaningful amount should I decide to sell, as student living is pretty expensive.

I've found other hobbies which are cheaper and more popular (read: poker), and even has the potential of putting money into my pocket.

Should I sell up?

Why/Why Not?

That actually sounds delicious. I'm looking for any and all recipes for curry. That way, I'll have an idea of how to tailor the curry for certain tastes. My flat mates don't have  "heavy" tastebuds like I do.

Super simple crostini: ( made this in 15 min last night for dinner)

French Baguette slices ( thick, about 2 knucles in width)
Olive Oil
Chicken breasts, cut up into semi small pieces.
Dried Oregano seasoning.
Parmesean Cheese grated or sliced thinly ( or brie if you don't like parmesean)
chopped garlic (optional)

Heat Olive Oil in a pan
Fry the Chicken breasts and before they dry,
toss the garlic in for about half a minute ( be sure they don't turn brown)
pan fry the bread in the same pan turning both sides, till the outside is crispy.
Season with oregano ( you can add this in during the frying)
top the french toast with parmesean cheese and serve.

Super quick and easy meal. Serve with salad of choice.

Just got back to TMD after a long hiatus from Magic and am sad to see that this thread died.

I'm real sorry to necro an old thread, but this is one of the most helpful topics I've seen in the Community Forum to date. And I think a duplicate thread won't really have any substance, as all the posted recipes are on this thread.

I'm posting in this thread to request if anyone has a good recipe for making curry from scratch. I live in a small country, so quality ethnic food is ridiculously hard to find and expensive. Besides, I'm moving out of my University Halls of Residence and will have to fend for myself in every aspect of life, including cooking. Any help is appreciated.

Yeah, I find myself shifting more and more towards poker. Vintage has gotten incredibly boring after Wizards cut Gifts at it's knees. The only thing keeping me in Vintage at the moment is the proxy and alteration art. No really!!!

I've had much more experience in live play rather than online. But that's because I'm unable to transfer any money online at the moment. I'm looking to get into online play next year but all the terminology is scaring me. Can anyone recommend a good place to learn about all the terms that online players seem to use so much.

I don't really understand how it's called the World Series. Only two countries play baseball, US and Japan. Please enlighten me

I actually love the unhinged style, and love the unglued basic land frames. The Time Spiral frame was pretty good as well.

Oh contrare. I like all the frames except for the 8th Ed ones.

DCI

DCI Yawg Will, or Altered Will (by say Ron Spencer)?

Was this written pre-Gifts restriction? Cuz with GAT in the meta, I think this article loses a bit of its relevance.

That was an insanely excellent post. (Can I put those two adjectives together?). The Fanatics are an interesting choice, I think the part where it's essentially unblockable by opposing Confidants is genius. If Oath is a worry, wouldn't Bouncer do better in the side? Also, would Lavamancer be a better choice in the aggro match?.

I agree with everything stated here.

A few questions:
- Did you ever find that you were not able to get Tog lethal due to Leyline or Crypt?
- Is Fastbond and Beserk worth splashing Green for?
- Ever thought about replacing a land with Volc. to splash for REB's? This improves a large swathe of matchups in the current meta, albeit they are already at least slightly favorable.


Agreed, except for the part where Control Magic is relevant.

Workshop players really need to cut they're ties to the traditional lists before Shop can become a dominant force again. The old hold-overs like Chalice, SoR and ironically Smokestack are still good. Cards that used to be good, ie Welder and Crucible need to be cut; these are the cards that are holding the players and the archetype as a whole from performing.

Needle does not affect Ninja

The problem with making gamble good, is that you need bombs to tutor for, that are good in hand (when you have a large hand size), or are good in the graveyard. Most preferably both. This is a tall order to fill, and I don't think the card pool is large enough to fill that order. I think Gamble is a card that will progressively get better in the future. But it's still not playable yet.

I heard that using Extra Virgin Olive Oil for cooking is bad for a reason I can't recall. That and the price of the stuff