Though I do not have much time to reply, but I think quality>quantity. I have been playtesting AK-less Intuition slaver after playing Goth Slaver. It is soooo much better. Not only did you almost never Intuition for three AKs, but now you don't have four bad cards in your deck. My favorite Intuition stack in the mirror is:
DA,DA, Lava Dart

I was talking to ELD, and his build has 1-2 differences from Shay's. I know he likes Cunning Wish over Lava Dart, but I do not know if he has made the change. I wish I had more time, I will edit this later.
-ISD

I found the end of the article the most interesting, when Randy talks about type one construction through card innovation/creation and player interaction. I thought the line of questions JP had were very sufficient, covering both Randy success with Control Slaver in the tournament and his experience with utility through card interaction, from a more standardized point of view.

I read all my PMs. Message to me deleted.
-Jacob

I am at fault once again. I am not angry at you, or the reasoning behind the statement. It's the fact that I have to go through each part of the deck to such extenses that a baby with a magnifying glass could decipher their meanings.



I do not know how to respond to your inquires, because the deck is nowhere near perfected. Of course I want intelligent comments regarding the deck, good or bad.  Comments that I expressed my reasoning toward in my original post that are challenged give me a problem. Challenge my reasoning, not the cards. (but still challenge my list, it has room for improvement).

Sundering Titan is still in the list, and I am testing without Boseiju.

This deck has been published twice, by me and a player whos name has excaped me. He has a report in the Tournament Report forum, conveniently there for your use. I ran into some problems, including: Ancestral Recall, Swords to Plowshares, Coffin Purge (upkeep they target lotus, you return in response they target again, and I lost sometimes due to having only two-three mana, and no LED) and any random cards like Skullclamp, Blasting Station found in slaver sideboard etc.

I love Balance in the deck, as you rarely have permanents and Oath is a one-card combo (well two counting Orchard) so discard down to 1-3 doesn't cripple you as it does others.

I wouldn't have posted that it has been published twice, but you emphasized on it's 'divine origins'.
-ISD

I have a formal apology to present to two separate groups of people, for two separate reasons. The first is to all the people who can't grasp that Crucible of Worlds is an infinite slaver lock, which I decided not to post in the original topic. I did so, as I thought the level of understanding was above that of Star City Games forum, but I was reprimanded for my negligence. I gave users too much credit, and like my English teacher says, I should say everything like I'm talking to a computer without a hard drive, and all it knows is what I tell it. So I will. The second apology goes out to the better Mana Drainers, the ones who hold eminent thought and edict within every sentence of their post. I apologize because I was in a, as JP would say, INTARNET FIGHT, over the origins of my deck. I sunk to the levels of shameless trash talkers to fight over my testing of the deck. It won't happen again.

Now, let's try to forget this posts past and keep it on topic please, as it seems to be the downfall of most posts in this forum.



Boseiju is now cut for another basic Island at the moment, I tested Balance but it proved to be the last thing I would Gifts for, if I ever did at all. Darksteel Colossus is horrible. If your opponent has a Goblin Welder out, it is completely useless. If they have a welder out, I get either Triskelion or Sundering Titan, depending on the situation. In most situations, I get Sundering Titan.

Toad wrote:


This is where I got some ideas for it. The only difference between the decks is mine has a better draw and abuses Welder. They found use for Duress, which is an excellent card for the meta right now. I am changing the deck around to beat combo, and stacker. Let me tell you, Stacker is going to be a house, don't take out your artifact hate at all, in fact, plan on leaving room for more.

Whatever Works:


I disagree with this more than anything. Unlike other builds, I use Goblin Welder. This changes the deck more than anything. I can now use such fat as Sundering Titan as an early game win.



This made me angrier than anything. I can't believe this, I spent several paragraphs explaining how to play the deck in the Tournament report. This is NOT a combo orientated deck! It's a control deck, that kills you in one swift turn. End step gifts, win on my turn. End step tutor, win on  my turn. From turns 1-7 they should literally think you are playing Control Slaver. I'm extremely frustrated that people post things like this when I clearly am making this deck NOT COMBO ORIENTED.



... It's a one card combo, Gifts Ungiven. The only difference between my deck and SB2 is Short Bus's build puts all of there men on one boat. When the boat sinks, they lose. With The Gift of the Cape (the codename for it while we tested) you can Thirst away Slaver and kill them, you can Severance/Belcher, you can Trike them, Sundering Titan them, or even Cruci/Strip Mine lockdown. My deck is much slower, but much more flexible. It's like the Dragon or TPS of Control.

breathweapon:


Thank you so much. This post made me reply to everyone. If you ever want to know why I use all these cards that make the deck look 'janky', read this post. .

The Capn:
You are dead on. That is the exact stack we plan against control mirrors, and your flexibility arguments are great. You can tell that the players who understand the interaction between the several Gift stacks have much better post quality, and it shows here   . Though some players only see getting the combo side of the deck, Gifts Ungiven gives you resources to spend late game, and until someone activates a slaver, you should be ready for late game. The only change is, I get Mindslaver on occasion instead of Sundering Titan, depending on the situation however.

Methuselahn and Kowal:
Despite my respect for using the same egotistical approach that Kowal use, it ultimately outlined you fighting ignorance with arrogance. I don't mean these words to be harsh, but it is clear you both want the same thing, for separate reasons. Kowal has never been my favorite poster, as he tends to take things to an off-topic census immediately (hence is post). Methuselahn, thank you for the compliments on my deck. However, two wrongs don't make a right, only two lefts can do that.

Conclusion:
It is now clear to me that people don't fully understand how the deck plays out. GC and Mana Severance are there merely because its an affordable, instant kill combo piece that can be Gift Ungivened for. It is not the center of the deck, and is a control deck. This is the best way I can put how the deck plays:

Dragon is roughly 70 percent a combo deck (arguably) and thirty percent control (draw engine, disruption etc.). Now, reverse that. Gift Slaver is 70-80 percent control, and 20 percent combo. This is not the actual deck itself, it's how it plays out. That is as simple as I can put it, and if it isn't simple enough, then I don't think your posts will help the topic at hand, instead it will create a massive proliferation of sub-par statements that could probably surpass president Bush at the State of the Nation Address.

Lists speak louder than words, especaily typed words. I am not a premium member, as I think the articles there are trash. Could you PM me a list, or simply post it here? I have been testing this for over six weeks, I am most certainly not 'behind the times', it was merely a timing issue between the release of your deck and mine. That sucks on my part, I was too late. Well, atleast that means I'm on the right track.
-ISD

A New Deck and Tournament Report of Epic Proportions

Admins: please leave this in the open forum, I feel it is more of a release of our deck than a tournament report, the report was just to give readers a feel on how to play the deck, thanks-ISD.

I live in Cape Cod, in a meta infested with more Control Slaver than fish (… the animal). I was having trouble defeating this over-populous deck, despite my valiant efforts with Rector Tricks, Oath and Dragon. But I failed. So I took my friends advice, “if you can not beat them, join them.” Holding my head in shame, I slowly begin to sleeve Control Slaver into my new pink sleeves. Ashamed of my failure, and of my overall loss to the inevitable conclusion, which is to play Slaver once and for all. I get distracted from the sleeving task at hand and wallow in my own depression (also affiliated with buying a candy bar). This is when it gets started. I then accidentally sleeve Gifts Ungiven, and get a nasty surprise in a tournament later. And by nasty, I mean innovative. This is when I began my virtue, my journey, with Gift Slaver.

We (The Cape Cod Crew) had many preliminary versions of Gift Slaver. It was built to abuse some serious tutoring effects, consisting of 3 Gifts and 3 Intuition. We tried out Accumulated Knowledge, but it met the same end as I feel it should in Goth Slaver. I would Intuition for Accumulated Knowledge 20-30 percent of the time. If I had no Welder out and one Accumulated Knowledge in my hand, I got three Accumulated Knowledge. In almost every other scenario, I either got big beats or utility, or Yawgmoth’s Will for the game (you have to see the build to understand).
So we have a couple options. We can cut AK or Intuition, or we can slim down the Intuition count. We started by cutting Accumulated Knowledge, and testing with 0-3 Intuition. Amazingly, Gifts Ungiven seemed to be better than Intuition. We couldn’t understand it, but in most scenarios Gifts was, well strictly better. So we started all over, eliminating Intuition for better utility for Gifts, and tested out Goblin Charbelcher- Mana Severance combo. Gifts turned into an all out house. Not only could it get me anything I needed, but I can abuse this stack:

Recoup
Yawgmoth’s Will
Black Lotus
Goblin Charbelcher or Mana Severance, depending on which I have in hand If I want to set up Y. Will then I get Tinker, Time Walk or Ancestral Recall.

This was our first build, providing a decent skin of the deck, until we got it down to a strong foundation.

Draw Mechanisms:
4 Thirst for Knowledge
4 Brainstorm
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Ancestral Recall

Regression/ Intrusion:
4 Force of Will
4 Mana Drain

Tutoring:
3 Gifts Ungiven
3 Intuition
1 Demonic Tutor

What you tutor for:
1 Yawgmoth’s Will
1 Tinker*

Utility/ Toolbox:
1 Goblin Charbelcher
1 Triskelion
1 Mindslaver
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Mana Severance
1 Recoup
1 Time Walk

Goblin Welder:
4 Goblin Welder

Mana Base:
4 Polluted Delta
4 Volcanic Island
2 Underground Sea
2 Island
1 Flooded Strand
1 Strip Mine
1 Seat of the Synod
7 Solomoxencrypt

* Tinker is a usual suspect for tutor targets, as you can instantly win through Belcher, and it is very useful with Recoup, as if it gets countered you recoup it, and if not then you recoup Time Walk and give them some business

The list is our first preliminary version. Then it survived a month of brutal testing against control mirrors, eventually morphing into what we hoped to be the perfect control deck.
…

…

…

A month has passed, and it survived a month of brutal testing against control mirrors. We found startling results at first, until it smoothened out towards the end. This deck has better draw than Shay Slaver, better tutoring/bombs than Goth Slaver, and 5 ‘Welder effects’ (not including sideboard).

After Trinisphere got restricted, we started testing old school stacker, and it’s a powerhouse and we will release in three weeks. For the mean-time, look out for it. Shops aren’t dead, not at all. We tested the match-up, and if the first turn Sphere (runs 5) is countered or isn’t played, Gift Slaver wins if it gets to 4-6 mana. The gift stack changes if they have a Sphere of Resistance out, and is typically formulated on spot. If you both have an active welder, and they have Sphere out, this is the normal stack (pre-sideboard):

Black Lotus
Time Walk
Recoup
Triskelion

most commonly, you get handed Recoup and Triskelion. So you weld in lotus and play Triskelion, killing their welder. After that, next turn you weld out their Sphere (for some fatty or a mox and recoup Yawgmoth’s Will and play it.

The hardest match-up for the deck is FCG. This is only a loss if you don’t Demonic/ Mystical for Tinker and Tinker for Triskelion. That and Mana Drain on an early Warchief/ Ringleader will do the trick. In combination with their Wastelands, a resolved Goblin Lackey often can over-produce to surmount the decks dwindling army, rarely consisting of more than a few Goblins on your side of the board. Playing around FCG is extremely hard. Since the deck is not based around slaver itself, chumping Lackey with welder happens on occasion. This is excluded when you have Thirst, Gift turn 2-3 and/or a Triskelion or fatty (meta-game dependant, can be Pentavus, Sundering Titan or Platinum Angel).

In the Gift Slaver vs. Control match-up it boils down to your favor. Though Oath can seemingly so outplay you in the beginning, as soon as you hit late game, you win. The reasoning I back this statement with is the deck is Yawgmoth’s Will. Yes, I know most every Control deck has it, but they are missing something. Gifts Ungiven enables the deck to set up will in one end step, and the one main phase. The deck is really centered on Yawgmoth’s Will, with 59 other insignificant cards to back it up. The game typically ends through Yawgmoth’s Will, as you Time Walk off it and then play Belcher/Mana Severance next turn. The only Control deck that has as much business as this from early to late game is Goth Slaver. Accumulated Knowledge really shines in late game, as if they’ve Intuitioned for them or not, they will be drawing 3-6 cards. The trick is slowly setting up Yawgmoth’s Will or a Slaver, and playing an end-step Gift for the win. That and an early Sundering Titan can get the job done. You really have to play the deck to understand how easy the Will set up is. Once you see the more updated list (towards the bottom of this post), build it. You will see what I mean.

Playing Gifts Ungiven: What for, when and why?
The hardest part about playing the deck is by far knowing how early to play Yawgmoth’s Will and what Gifts Ungiven stack to use. This is what I feel needs the most explanation, and deserves the most thought in-game. It can be used as an immediate card-source in Control match-ups, a utility for answers against aggro/ threats emitted from either control and occasionally combo (see:Worldgorger Dragon). Beyond this, if you have already set up the win through ultimate card/counter advantage, it can get the win for you. I tend to play Gifts from turns 3-7. In drawn out games against control, it tends to be latter. Early game, I tutor for something like this;

Black Lotus
Yawgmoth’s Will
Recoup
Ancestral Recall

this opens up the late-game and creates a huge gap in Controls plan. I realized this when I was reading Mike Flores article on tempo (an excellent article might I add, when of my personal favorites). Control slaver, in particular, relies heavily on tempo. Now, don’t get me wrong Mr. Shay and control slaver affiliates, it’s a different type of tempo. Not the kind of tempo Fish relied on, but a tempo that allows you to pass turns, and turn their attack step/ end step to your advantage. This is what control does, leaving counters open for their turn. Cards like Intuition and Thirst are examples. This deck does that just like Slaver, only my draw is better. Gifts Ungiven sets up a two-turn kill. The only deck that can compete with it in this factor is Team Gro Slaver. The reason I make this comparison between Intuition-Slaver, Control Slaver and Gift Slaver is Gift Slaver can just say ‘go’. I can not play a spell for two turns, play Gifts and win the next turn. If any Slaver player can contest this statement, I bid them good luck, and advise them to reconsider their statement by playing the deck. The stack changes with different positions on your and your opponent’s side of the board. If you have an active Welder, this is a very common stack;

Crucible of Worlds
Seat of the Synod
Mindslaver
Deep Analysis/ or a threat (Triskelion, Pentavus, Platinum Angel or Sundering Titan. Meta-dependant)

With this stack, you get handed a Mindslaver and a threat. If this happens, you play thirst and win with infinite slaver lock in one turn. Like I said, it’s the hardest part of playing the deck, and I know I make it seem simple writing it here, but actually playing it in a game is far more difficult. If you do not have Thirst in hand, this tends to be a usual stack;

Crucible of Worlds
Strip Mine
Mana Severance
Goblin Charbelcher

This makes them have to give you one of each combination’s. If they give you Strip Mine, you weld in Crucible, they can’t give you Crucible, as then you would have the combo. Keep in mind; this would be early game so Strip/ Crucible would be devastating. They can’t confidently give you Mana Severance/ Belcher, as then you have a kill stored in your hand. They give you Strip Mine and (if they are smart) Belcher. You then weld in Crucible, and do that business. After that, you can possibly kill through Belcher activation (not too many lands, and a Volcanic doubles the trouble).

This is our hot off the press build, the build I played in the proceeding tournament report (meta-gamed for the tournament)

4 Goblin Welder
4 Thirst for Knowledge
4 Mana Drain
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
3 Gifts Ungiven
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Mana Severance
1 Tinker
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Sundering Titan
1 Mindslaver
1 Triskelion
1 Deep Analysis/ Mystical Tutor
1 Yawgmoth’s Will
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Recoup
1 Goblin Charbelcher

Manbase:
4 Volcanic Island
4 Polluted Delta
3 Underground Sea
1 Island
1 Boseiju,
1 Strip Mine
1 Seat of the Synod
8 SoLoMoxenCrypt

Sideboard:
3 Chalice of the Void
3 Flame-Tongue Kavu
3 Lava Dart
3 Blue Elemental Blast
2 Duress
1 Platinum Angel

Round one: Eric with Control Slaver
He rolls a 19, I roll a 2 and he opts to play. He opens with Volcanic Island, Sol ring and passes the turn. My opening hand is decent, but not too great:
Underground Sea, Volcanic Island, Polluted Delta, Mox Sapphire, Gifts Ungiven and Goblin Welder. I am not too confident in mulliganing game one, so I keep as I’m on the draw. I top-deck Thirst for Knowledge, making this hand much better. I play Volcanic Island and Welder. Welder resolves, and I pass the turn. Eric untaps and draws, playing another Volcanic Island and passing the turn.
           My top-decking skill is once again prevalent, as I draw into Crucible of Worlds. I then play Strip Mine and Mox Sapphire, and pass the turn. Eric, however, has end-step effects. He plays a Thirst for Knowledge. I can thirst in response to Force it, but he doesn’t have an active Welder, so I let it resolves, meanwhile keeping my bluffed Mana Drain UU open. He draws three cards and discards a Mana Crypt.
   On Eric’s turn he untaps and draws, playing a Mox Jet. He then sacrifices Mana Crypt to Tinker. I can Thirst in response to Tinker, which would be the appropriate play. However, I think he does not have Triskelion in his build, as only Goth Slaver runs it, and Goth slaver would have shown me an Accumulated Knowledge or Intuition by now. So, I respond with Thirst for Knowledge anyways, as he may be holding a Mox to activate Mindslaver. Thirst resolves, and I draw into Mana Drain, Island and Triskelion. I discard Triskelion, and pray he doesn’t have the Mox in hand to activate Mindslaver (as he has three mana open). He searches for Pentavus and I give a sigh of relief. I guess his build may be outdated, but Pentavus is a good call in a field of aggro. End of his turn I weld out Pentavus for Sol Ring, and he makes three Pentavites in response. I untap and draw into a Polluted Delta, and debate between playing crucible and Strip Mining his land. I decide to Strip his land and Mana Drain his next key card, then use the mana on Crucible. I take out one of his Volcanic Islands, play Polluted Delta and pass. Oh Brainstorm, where art thou?
   On Eric’s turn he draws and attacks with the three 1/1 pentavites. I take three, and he plays a second main-phase Fire/Ice, targeting my Goblin Welder. I cast Mana Drain and my Welder lives. At his endstep I weld out Sapphire for my Triskelion, and take my turn. I draw into a Brainstorm, right on queue. I tap the Volcanic to Brainstorm into Brainstorm, Force of Will and Sol Ring. I put Island and Underground Sea back, and then fetch them away. I then use one of the mana to play Sol Ring, then tap the Sol Ring to play Crucible of Worlds. It resolves, and I recur a Strip Mine and hit his Volcanic. He notably missed his land-drop last turn, so it was to my full advantage. I know have six to five card superiority, and land advantage. This game ends quickly after that, and Gifts for this stack finishes him off:
Tinker
Time Walk
Recoup
Yawgmoth’s Will.

Sideboarding:
+2 Lava Dart

-1 Tinker (he just welds the fat out, and sideboarding is extremely difficult)
-1 Goblin Welder (if he boards up excessive hate, and I have his to mess around with)

Game two:
We both exercise our three minutes of shuffling, and I get dished this hand:
Time Walk, Demonic Tutor, Mox Ruby, Mox Jet, Mox Pearl and 2x Polluted Delta. I keep and so does Eric, who is on the play. He leads with a strong first turn, consisting of Mox pearl, Mox Sapphire, Time Walk and Brainstorm. He takes his Time Walk turn and taps Sapphire for Brainstorm. He then plays an Island and passes the turn.
   On my turn, I draw into Force of Will, and play Mox Jet, Mox Pearl, Demonic Tutor. It resolves, and I get Ancestral Recall. I then play Mox Ruby, Polluted Delta for an Island and Time Walk. On my Time Walk turn I draw into a Mana Drain. Starved for a resolved Ancestral, I glance happily at my Force of Will + blue card combo. He has three cards in hand, so I play the Ancestral, knowing if he goes Drain with Force backup, we both have no cards in hand, and I have more draw to top-deck. He attempts a Mana Drain on my Ancestal, which gets Forces removing Mana Drain. I draw my three cards, which were Mindslaver, Volcanic Island and Goblin Charbelcher. I fetch for an Underground Sea and play a resolved Goblin Charbelcher.
   On Eric’s turn he plays double brainstorm with no fetchland. He frowns at not seeing a red source I suppose, and passes the turn. I untap and draw Lava Dart. I then activate Goblin Charbelcher targeting him. It deals him eight damage (four cards revealed then a Volcanic) and I pass the turn. He draws and passes the turn. I draw into Gifts and play it. I decide to belch him out, as I only have 6 lands left in my deck. I get this stack:
Polluted Delta, Flooded Strand, Seat of the Synod and Boseiju, Who Shelters All. I keep Strand and Seat of the Synod and Fetch for my remaining Underground Sea. Then I pass the turn.
   Eric draws a card and passes, but I activate Belcher at his end-step. I hit him for 18, nine cards and then Volcanic, Eric stands up and sows me his hand, consisting of 4 Goblin Welders. Ouch, starved on red mana was a huge factor in winning this one.

I grab some food, as fatigue is the last thing any player playing a complicated deck needs.

Round two: Mike playing Dragon
Though I didn’t write down the dice roll, I remember I went first. Mike keeps his hand, and I keep this business:
Mana Drain, Force of Will, Volcanic Island, Underground Sea, Crucible of Worlds, Thirst for Knowledge and Demonic Tutor. I play Volcanic and pass the turn. Mike draws and plays Bazaar of Baghdad, activates it and discards 2 Squees and another Bazaar. I didn’t expect much Dragon here, so I’m not too happy, especially when they have a strong opening like that. I take my turn and draw into a Force of Will. I play an Underground Sea and pass the turn.
   On Mike’s turn he returns both Squees and untaps. He then activates Bazaar, discarding two squees and I think a land. Then he plays a Xantid Swarm off a Bayou, and I drain it. I use the one Drain mana to Demonic for Strip mine, and Strip his Bazaar. I play a main-phase Brainstorm into a third Force of Will, Mindslaver and a Volcanic Island. I put back Slaver and Crucible, which goes on top. On Mike’s turn he plays an Underground Sea and Mox Jet, then a Demonic Tutor. I force it removing Force, as he might get Dragon and hold back another Bazaar. My force resolves without a struggle, and I take my turn. I play Volcanic Island and Crucible. He shrugs, pretending he doesn’t care, and draws for his turn. At this point, I have three cards in hand (Mindslaver, Thirst for Knowledge and Force of Will) and he has six. I’m being out-drawn by Dragon, something I hate accepting. He misses his land-drop and passes the turn. I draw into Tinker, and replay Strip Mine from the grave. I strip his blue source, and he stifles. I don’t want him playing any Intuitions or Lim-Duals Vault, so I force it removing Thirst for Knowledge. His blue source goes to the grave, and I pass the turn.
   He plays a Polluted Delta off the top and grabs an Underground Sea. I take my turn and strip it, and he floats a blue. I exchange phases and he plays a Lim-Duals Vault. I Brainstorm in response into Island, Mox, welder. I let the vault resolves, then play welder and Tinker for mindslaver (which I put back with Brainstorm). I sense my fate is near, until I discover he only runs Sliver Queen and Caller of the Claw as kills. I inquired his reasoning, and it had some logic. He said he lost to Oath cause of Gaea’s Blessing. Then I told him you just keep milling them until it is in the bottom three cards, then Ancestral them. You have to do this through Compulsion. I activate Mindslaver, and it wins despite my opponent having 6,437 1/1 Slivers in play.

I sideboard BEBs and Duress

Game Two he mulls down to four cards, and I keep a strong hand. To say the most, he almost killed me but I forced the animate. It was a very impressive start from a 4 card hand, land Ancestral. Next turn Bazaar ditching 1 Squee, then Intuitioning off Lotus for two more Squee and a Dragon.

Round Three- Jason with Food Chain Joblins
I lose. End of story, it was a 1-2 loss, but his 17/2 Piledrives are more effective than my two Lava Darts. Game one he comboed me out early, game two I slaver him early and three he aggro’d me to death.

Round Four- Matt with Hulksmash-2002
The 2002 is dedicated to him, as he picked it up off his floor from way back in the day, changed some stuff around for the four Gush and played the deck. He was my favorite player of the day, being more colorful than most, and providing me with the most laughs in a game in a while.

Game one I actually killed him turn two with Force of Will to protect. I went first turn Mox, Lotus, Island, Timewalk. He then attempts to Force my Time Walk (I don’t know why) so I drain back, using the last blue to Brainstorm. On my Time Walk turn I play Mana Crypt and Goblin Charbelcher with one more Drain mana floating. I play Mana Severance and Belch him for 27. (Technically) a turn one kill with control. Ownage.

He tells me later that I sideboard as if I am playing combo, (Damping Matrix and affiliates) but I play first turn Tinker ~> Sundering Titan, and that ended that game rather fast.

Top Four-??? With TPS
I know this match-up even better than I know the Slaver match-up, as I only recently stopped playing TPS

Game one:
He wins the dice-roll and opts to play first. He plays a first turn Dark Ritual (and had it not been the first spell of the turn, I would have countered it) into Necropotence. I Force the Necro removing Fact or Fiction. I draw my card for turn, and this is my hand:
Force of Will, Black Lotus, Brainstorm, Goblin Welder, Flooded Strand and Volcanic Island. I play Lotus for blue and Brainstorm into Polluted Delta, Brainstorm and Thirst for Knowledge. I put back Polluted Delta and Volcanic Island, then Flooded Strand for the Volcanic. I use one of my remaining UU to Brainstorm again. I didn’t write down the other two cards, but a Gifts Ungiven was in the three. Then I play Goblin Welder with the Volcanic, and take a U burn. He draws, plays a fetch and Brainstorms, then breaks the fetch and passes the turn.
   I draw and play an Island, then move my lands slightly but noticeably upwards on the table, trying to bluff drain. He tries an end-step Ancestral, but I force it removing Gifts. My last card in hand is a Thirst for Knowledge, and he has five cards in hand. He plays another land and passes. I know what he is doing, trying to slow-play me until he kills me, probably in 2 more turns. I draw for my turn and play a fetch, getting Underground Sea. Then I play Thirst into Belcher, fetch and a mox. I ditch belcher and play the mox, then pass the turn.
   He draws and passes, missing a land drop. Now I know I was wrong, I’m not getting slow-played; he just has bad, un-cast able bombs in his hand. I weld in Belcher eot and draw my card. Then I fetch for an Underground Sea, and activate Blecher. I hit him for a measly one damage, and play a second welder. He draws, plays a mox (he has five mana) and passes. I suspect he has had FoW the whole time, just not the blue card to pitch. I draw a volcanic, and belch him again. He takes three, putting him down to thirteen. Then, I surprise attack him with my pair of Welders and then claim I’m bluffing ninjistsu. He laughs and marks his life total, and I do the same. I draw and Belch at him for eight, and attack with the team putting him at one. He fetches at my end-step (on purpose) and concedes the game.

Game two:
He gets a turn three kill on me, despite Force of Will and Duress.

Game three my notes started to get sketchy, but I know he Necropotenced down to three life early. I then attacked with Goblin Welder and Lava Darted him. Best.kill.ever. I bring in Lava Dart because Gifts is too slow here, and I never have time to play it. So I have tons of room, so anything that might be good in situations comes in, hence the Lava Dart. Chalice never made an appearance in both post-sideboard games .

I split with Jason playing FCG (I offered the split :p) and I took home a Mana Drain (contact me, it’s my fifth :p)

Please Discuss:
The deck in general
Better sideboard options (mine were trash all day)
If Duress should be MD or SB
Room for more Deep Analysis
and any regards to the tournament report

Thank you Cape Cod Crew for play-testing, specifically Chris and Greg. I would also like to give props to Team Gro’s Intuition Slaver, whose mana-base was a perfect start, and several of our ideas were generated from your deck.

Please give this post as much constructive criticism as moderators will allow. My writing and deck design isn’t perfect, though that is subject to your judgment. Thank you for reading – Matt.

Edit: I was told not to release this before the next Waterbury, but I got anxious, sorry Chris   .

It's simple. Look at the decks that mysteriously disapeared at the time Trinisphere was printed. Dragon, GAT, Tog (this one is mroe dormant) and Deathlong. All those decks are now viable for a comeback. The logic in this theory is unmistakable, and I would highly recommend testing all of them. Meanwhile, I will replace Trinisphere with Sphere of Resistance and play Stacks.
-ISD

I don't understand why all this hype is going around for Imperial Seal, Grim Tutor looks much better, now Deathlong can MD Will. And have 4 of these, 1 Imperial Seal, Demonic/Vamp/Mystical and probably a chromatic-sphere like card (to ensure you can kill the same turn). I just went down to my local cardshop and bought 12 Imperial Seal for 4 dollars, I will sell 10 of them to Mana Drainers for 10$ a pop. PM me if you are interested, not to meaning to spam, sorry Zherheberuserus (I should read that primer....). I don't know why they think Imperial Tutor is insane, it's like a Vampiric Tutor except a sorcery.... Right? The other one that is restricted, that gets you sorceries, that's very interesting. We all know the best bombs in combo are typically sorcery-speed. Both will definently see play.

The problem with this post is we don't know what meta you play in. I play in a field with oodles of Control Slaver, so decks like Deathlong and Madness are playable. If you pay in a field with a huge amount of Dragon and Cerebrall Assassin, then play Fish. Or play Blood Moon in Control Slaver.
-ISD

I have left this post go dormant in my embarrasment of my rulings error, however I realized most mistakes are better left corrected .  On to a much more on-topic debate:

How to Beat Control Slaver

It seems this deck is a monster. Shay Slaver has more resources, Team Gro slaver has better draw, I mean, how can a control deck compete? Though oath can start off broken, why not just play Deathlong, which is made to do that? I am really struggling with my build right now, and it seems nothing is working.

For example, I figure I can spice up the draw in the deck by adding a Fact or Fiction and two Deep Analysis. It failed, as the cards were way too clunky.

I tried to make the threat-base better by adding Tinker, and using Collosus as kill. It failed, as a resolved Goblin Welder smoked me.

The most effective was Duress. It won me AK mirrors, held it's own against combo and took a counter to go broken. However, it seemed unparreled with Goth's draw engine.

Fall-Titan:


No, and it isn't slower. It can kill off the first oath activation, but it will kill after the second. I decided to not use this kill however, as an activated slaver is game-ending, and it is vulnerable to grave-yard hate.

Vood:


I noticed   . This is the problem with Oath, unlike Slaver. Slaver is a better control deck because it has an answer for everything. This is what Mindslaver does. Mindslaver is the perfect card, it is the answer to every single thing you can name. I have played slaver staring down 2 Null Rod, a Gorilla Shaman, 6 cards in hand and Crucible of Worlds/Strip Mine and I still won (end step Echoing Truth Null Rod, three mox, lotus, Y. Will, Lotus, Time Walk, Tinker, Ancestral.). The deck is incredible with all of it's outs.

Corey:
I'll be at the Cape Cod tournament this Saturday, and I assume the Brockton crew will be playing Control Slaver in full force. I may or may not be playing Oath, we have been working on a deck named 'Cape Cod Surprise'. It's really interesting, and has been tweaked for over a month. I'm surprised you say Oath/slaver is 50/50, and even more surprised you talk about losing counterwars. I say this because Control Slaver has a lot more threats than Oath, but they are not game-ending. Slaver has Welders, Pentavus, FoF (control mirror) etc. Oath has four threats, but they are all game-ending. This makes Oath more prone to be beaten in a counter-war, and thus more vulnerable to less counters.

Demonic Attorney:
In well over half the games I've played against Oath, they've had Oath and Orchard down with Force backup by turn 2. Slaver is not built to stop that kind of opening. Instead, Slaver should focus on how to deal with this situation and concentrate all its efforts on maneuvering effectively within it

Exactly. I could not have said it better myself, Control Slaver has enough outs and reactiveness to over power even an Akroma and a Spirit of The Night turn 3. It's a remarkable deck. However, as a result of this, simple disruption like Duress, Force and mana Leak can over through a rather weak attempt to reprieve stability. I lost to 4cc today because I played first turn Oath off Oarchard, put him at two life (two oath activations). I have ten cards left. I say go, and eot he swords both of his tokens. He then drops balance. I activate Oath for Blessing, get it off and play Akroma again. He sets up Y. Will and wins. He should have just gone double sword on me big guys, as then I couldn't win.

Nonetheless, my point re-establishes Demonic Attorney's, 4cc is made to deal with that kind of start, Control Slaver isn't, so it has to go re-active crazy  to pull it off.

Thank you, by the way, for amplifying the redundancy in everyones willingness to feed one mistake like ravenous judges.



Corey covered this one for me   .

-ISD

First come, first serve.

Ultima:


This is what I am attempting to prevent by running Crucible of Worlds in the sideboard. It is rather slow, but it can get very effective. The problem is, this Crucible can't stop Drain, moxen or Islands (most of the time).



This is all going to change very soon. I am trying to mix this up, check out the deck list at towards the bottom of the post. Explanations will proceed after.

I'll answer the bulk of your questions in my most recent build.

Demonic Attorney:


This couldn't be any more a ridiculous statement. Platinum Angel is not (anymore) the main problem I face. Please wait, and read the rest of the post. My new build changes the creature base, which makes it immune to Platinum Angel.



Yes they can, if they are countering the Control Magic then it hasn't resolved, and they still have the Platinum. This would put the player at -1 life. I have just started to take my DCI lvl 1 judge training, and fully understand state-based effects.



This, if we are talking about normal Control Slaver, is false. Are we all forgetting that oath runs 14 counters? I don't play aggressive into Slaver, I lay back and play Intuition and Counterspells.

Now, this is the real business. I have recently tweaked Oath's kill mechanism to make Platinum Angel irrelevant:

0ath2K5:
4x Oath of Druids
4x Mana Leak
4x Brainstorm
4x Mana Drain
4x Force of Will
4x Accumulated Knowledge
3x Intuition
3x Thirst for Knowledge
2x Auriok Salvagers
2x Seal of Cleansing
1x Yawgmoth's Will
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Pyrite Spellbomb
1x Aether Spellbomb

4x Forbidden Orchard
4x Polluted Delta
3x Underground Sea
2x Tundra
1x Island
1x Tropical Island
5x Moxen
1x Sol Ring
1x Lions-Eye Diamond
1x Black Lotus

Sideboard:
4x Duress
3x Cabal Therapy**
3x Ground Seal
2x Pernicious Deed
2x Seal of Cleansing
1x Pristine Angel

I switched the kill to Auriok Salvagers, which don't lose to Platinum. However, they do lose to Trinisphere. So I decided to put some Seal of Cleansing in the maindeck. I am using Duress and Therapy in the board, Therapy is good in AK mirrors and against opposing Oath. I really want to fit Duress in the main, but I'm struggling to find slots. The same goes for balance, Fact or Fiction, Swords to Plowshares, and Deep Analysis. I'm tight on space.

Pernicious Deed is mainly in the board for 5/3, but is usefull against random aggro varients.

I am really liking the new draw, three Thirst for Knowledge. I have more draw and counters than goth slaver. However, it can abuse mana sources much better than Oath can, so I still have to bank on playing an Oath or rely on winning an AK battle.

Please comment on the build, flaws, changes, whatever.

I do apoligize for sounding abrasive, it was absolutely uncalled for. This Oath build sufficiently has no problem with Platinum Angel, and if, or so you say is the reason Oath loses, then maybe I won't have such a hard time winning now.

Damping Matrix does nothing, it gets welded out, countered, Duressed, or they just play Will and win anyways. Null Rod is more interesting.



This really exercised my thinking process. Crucible and Extraction are way too slow, so the deck needs to either play an Oath early, or get in for the long haul.
-Thanks, ISD

The First Law of Debate: Do not ask rhetorical questions



There is no point to making strong decks into bad ones. If you can give me an example, any example of when nothing changed about the format, so someone built a new deck. This new deck can kill the same speed as Belcher, is worse than TPS and Dragon, scrubbed out at a major tournament (the only one it was played it) and literally dies to Force of Will. Now, imagine the team that produced this deck publishes it on TMD, meanwhile providing no evidence that the deck is actually good. I really like Jacob Orlove and Saucey, but this is just pure bs.

had they taken a deck that *might* be unplayable, say Keeper. They take Keeper and optimize it, and take half the top 8 at Waterbury. This is a different example led by meandeck. Now, is innovation still a positive force when it is being used to build bad decks? Oops, I just asked a rhetorical question.
-ISD

Let's disect this. I was awfully harsh against JP, but I was not harsh against him from helping me with the deck. I was harsh against him as on this site, if you lack a reputation and number of quality posts, then you are treated like a noob. For example, I talked about taking the late game away from slaver, so JP responded that if you Control Magic a Platinum Angel while they are at negative, you win.

...

...

See what I mean? Now, onto the next discussion, which is more on-topic:

I figured you would have read my previous post, displaying my new, revamped list that can take the mid-game back for Oath. In this build, I run an answer maindecked, Cunning Wish. I then Cunning Wish for Echoing Truth, Stifle etc, whatever fills the requirements in the specific situation. This is my proposed answer to not only Platinum Angel, but just a problem that the deck faces.

I do apoligize to JP, he was just trying to help, but it looked like this to me:

me: Because Control Slaver can dominate you late game through Mindslaver and Platinum Angel, I am attempting to take back the mid-game. I will do this through Yawgmoth's Will, Crucible of Worlds and Cranial Extraction. I don't have a problem with Platinum Angel as I have Cunning Wish.

JP: If you Control Magic a Platinum Angel while they have it, and they are at negative, they lose.
...
Understand?

I do not understand the reason for most of this post. I mean, at Waterbury all but one Meandeck member top eighted. I top eighted at Waterbury, and it's not that hard. How could you blatantly scrub out at a major tournament, then claim the deck is viable and post several topics of it? I thought this site filtered trash, but apparently not. I know Meandeck is a respected, strong team, but come on. Just because you're in a team, or have played for ten years, you can occasionally just build a deck that doesn't work. This just happens to be that occasion.

I goldfished the deck and really did turn up first turn kills fifty percent of the time. Then, I got an interesting idea. I put 52 Islands, 4 force of will and 4 brainstorm in a deck, and pretended Force could pitch an Island. The kill ratio dramatically decreased. I killed first turn around 25-30 percent. The point is, why make combo faster? Why not just play Dragon, an established combo deck, with strong disruption. There are some players who build onto the format, and some players who bitch about it, that is why I respect your exploration. However, you are building the wrong way.

JP Meyer:
I realize I may be new here, which is an explanation for your blindness. Platinum Angel is not the card that beats oatyh, actually, not even close to it. There is no single card, not one, that can shut down a solid control deck. This is what I am trying to do with your Oath. Control Slaver beats oath because it's a solid control deck. I play in New England, the most Control Slaver infected meta in the world. I have played with and against the deck in more games you have ever played (yes, I know who you are, and please, please don't take this to any offense) but I know the deck inside and out. Control Magic is almost a joke. I understand it's uses in formal format, but thats not the problem I have. I can smoke aggro, I need a card that specifically hates Control Slaver. This test card is Cranial Extraction now, but it will probably change soon. I don't lose to Platinum Angel, like no control deck should. I play Oath to beat control slaver, and that's what I am going to do. I am, however, extremely reasonable. I love to hear what your thoughts are, but I am not at all impressed that when I am talking about taking the mid to late game away from Slaver, and you tell me that Control Magic wins you the game against Platinum when they are at <0...... To say the least I am extremely unimpressed. Now stop treating me like an idiot (or a newb as people say nowadays) and lets talk strategic. Instead of giving me a situational card in a specific position, Cunning Wish is the same, except it fits every position (with the right toolbox) except it taks one slot. Come on now, challenge me, I will write a report on a tournament at Cape Cod in two weeks, and Cape Cod has more Control Slavers than JP Meyer-land. If I lose the tournament and to Control Slaver, maybe my attempt at optimizing the deck is futile. However Mr. Meyer, or The New Pope, it would be a sad thing to see this deck surpassed by another, especailly considering how much work meandeck, and myself have worked on it. I do like your style, you type posts that intise thought, however I find this to be a result of your thoughtless posts. In short, laziness is techzor.

Smemmen:


I read the article, and saw the inclusion of Control Magic. However, I felt it was a weak card, as Control Slaver is extremely flexible, and can probable find a way to get it back (i.e weld it out, Cunning Wish, Echoing Truth). So, the only better response is to remove it from the game. However, Swords to Plowshares is too weak for the job, as it would be at the expense of a turn later kill, which can lose you the game if they activate a slaver. I really have to think hard on this one, however I am testing Recipricate now.

thecapn:


Cranial Extraction and Crucible of Worlds are testing slots to try and dominate the mid-game against most control decks. I completely understand what you are saying about B2B, and I think you are right. However, I don't see any workshops unless they are played in 5/3. Against  5/3, Energy Flux can typically do the trick.



Exactly. If you are Oathing, you really have a hard time losing. If you aren't Oathing, you are Willing. I am probably cutting Gaea's Blessing. I don't know if I will lose games as a result of this, but I may win some as well. It makes the kill a turn faster, if you have will in hand. You mill your deck to find the first creature, dumping some goodness in the yard. Then, Will is game. The only problem is, Control Slaver can set up will through Fact or Fiction and Thirst for Knowledge. I am having trouble doing this, except when I Intuition for Black Lotus, Time Walk and Ancestral Recall  :lol: .

Wollblad:


Disrupting Shoal can be placed in a modified version of both of these decks, but I don't think it's good. Both decks are established Control decks, with stronger counters and disruption than that.



Possibly, but I think running black will do the same but better. I am really working on going two ways like Control Slaver, which can combo you out (Will, Tinker etc.) and has an amazing draw engine with strong disruption (Mindslaver, 10 disruption, 10-16 draw etc.).  I don't think Disrupting Shoal can split the difference.

Thank you all for your thoughts, I am very impressed in general here. Most people claim The Mana Drain members are mean, etc. I always thought if a post has edicut, punctuation and modern decks, it can thrive.

Zherbus:


Actually, the reason I am playing Oath now is because I live in the heaviest Control Slaver environment in the world, Massachusetts. I see Rich Shay, Eric Dupuis, Corey Frasier, Pat Buchanon, Chris Hufnagle and occasionally some Hadley guys. I feel that if oath plays a first turn Oath off an Orchard, it really has a hard time losing. Control Slaver, however, has an amazing amount of flexibility. It has this flexibility because Mindslaver really can relieve them of any tough situation or problem. It's a one card answer to every deck. That, Duress, eight counters and cards like Yawgmoth's Will, Cunning Wish (in some builds) and Demonic Tutor. They are simply more vulnerable, a better combo-control deck. However, I plan on playing the combo half to my advantage. because the deck inevitably relies on playing a Goblin Welder, and basically winning from there, I plan on packing some tech removal. This is why I am sideboarding Cranial Extraction for the time being. If they don't have a Goblin Welder out, I can name it. If they do, I hit Mindslaver, the only card that sways the game to Control Slavers advantage. To do this, however, my build needs some changes:

Oath: Liberation from Slaver(y)

4x Oath of Druids
4x Force of Will
4x Mana Drain
4x Accumulated Knowledge
4x Mana Leak
4x Brainstorm
3x Intuition
2x Misdirection
1x Yawgmoth's Will
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Ancestral Recall
1x Time Walk
1x Cunning Wish
1x Akroma, Angel of Wrath
1x Spirit of the Night
1x Gaea's Blessing
5x Moxen
1x Black Lotus

4x Forbidden Orchard
4x Polluted Delta
3x Island
1x Tropical Island
1x Underground Sea
3x Wasteland
1x Strip Mine

Sideboard:
3x Sphere of Resistence
3x Energy Flux
2x Cranial Extraction
2x Crucible of Worlds
1x Pristine Angel
1x Fact or Fiction
1x Echoing Truth
1x Coffin Purge
1x Fire/Ice

It's more bulky, and it needs more testing. It may run Duress maindeck.

Lou:
I think the answer should be both maindeck and sideboard. As in, Yawgmoth's Will and Deep Analysis. In the sideboard, you get more flexibility and more threats.

Virtual:


This is absolutely perfectly right. Slaver is a slow, accumulating Control deck that can randomly win by playing T4K, and pitch a slaver. Oath does this, except all of Control Slavers cards are usable outside this combonation. With Oath, Oath is a one card combo, and it isn't usable outside the combo like Thirst for Knowledge and Goblin Welder are.

Ultima:


This is what I'm hoping to cure by adding black for better broken mechanichs and tutors. I am a huge fan of your teams decks however, and I would love to get in further discussion. Keep the geat work up   .

Jp Meyer:
I love to read your articles, but your posts are mere summed up preambles of actual statements. You are right however, if it gets to let game, that typically means slaver. This is why your statements are just babble that lead to actual thought. I like it, however, as it intesifies post quality, and makes me do the work   . I am not going to try to prevent it from getting to late game, as thats impossible. I'm going to just try to dominate the late game if it comes to that.

Thank you all for posting, and I took all of your thoughts seriously. I apoligize for my delayed post, but better late, then never.

This is why I may install Drains over Counterspells, two Deep Analysis, Yawg. Will and Demonic Tutor and a Cunning Wish. This would make it much more flexible, pro-active and re-active at the same time. However, it's still just a theory.

I tried to keep the thread as bland as possible without going into too much detail, and to emphasize it in discussion. So, which deck is better, not just in the mirror? .02 cents? Thoughts?
-ISD

I am in quite the predicament. I am an established Control Slaver player, and have played it when it first was born. However, I have found a new deck to play, Oath. Both decks play out very similar, except they do one key detail different, how they win. Oath plays a more spontaneous win, playing Oath turn 1-6, and wining 2 turns later. Control Slaver plays it much more like a control deck should, a gradual process. What I mean by gradual process is playing a Goblin Welder turn 1, playing a Thirst for Knowledge turn two-three, and pitching something for the win (Sundering Titan, Pentavus, Mindslaver etc.). However, I am going much more in depth in this, a foot long and a mile deep.

Control Slaver:
By Rich Shay, played at Waterbury*

1 Triskelion
1 Platinum Angel
1 Pentavus
4 Goblin Welder
4 Mana Drain
4 Force of Will
4 Thirst for Knowledge
4 Brainstorm
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Ancestral Recall
2 Duress
2 Mindslaver
1 Tinker
1 Time Walk
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Jet
1 Sol Ring
1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
1 Library of Alexandria
1 Darksteel Citadel
3 Underground Sea
4 Polluted Delta
4 Volcanic Island
4 Island

*(I am aware that Mr. Shay constantly metagames, and that this deck is probably not very similar to his typical builds. However, it is the most recent I can find)

Oath:
As played by Jacob Orlove in SCGP9

4 Oath of Druids
4 Intuition
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Counterspell
4 Mana Leak
4 Accumulated Knowledge
2 Impulse
2 Misdirection
1 Spirit of the Night
1 Akroma, Angel of Wrath
1 Gaea's Blessing
1 Time Walk
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Sol Ring
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Pearl
1 Lotus Petal
1 Black Lotus

4 Forbidden Orchard
4 Polluted Delta
4 Island
3 Wasteland
1 Tropical Island
1 Strip Mine

Draw Engine/ Tutors:

Oath:
4 Intuition
4 Brainstorm
4 Accumulated Knowledge
2 Impulse
1 Ancestral Recall

I am a huge fan of this draw engine. Impulse is fantastic with a deck so redundant, a blue tutor, pitch-able to Force of Will. Accumulated Knowledge is great, as you can tutor for an ancestral with Intuition, it has an awesome interaction with Oath and Impulse, and you can occasionally get a hand with two or three of them and win from there. Brainstorm is an obvious choice at this point, as you can put cards back, fetch and see three more. It helps aid mana-screw, and can make bad hands, very good.

Control Slaver:
4 Thirst for Knowledge
4 Brainstorm
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Library of Alexandria*

I really have always loved the decks interaction with itself. Every single card in the deck can go broken, or can play control and dump Yawgmoth’s Will or active a Mindslaver. Thirst for Knowledge turns any fat (in this case Triskelion, Platinum Angel and Pentavus) into a three-casting cost bombshell that gives you card advantage. Fact or Fiction is a draw mechanic I have been trying to fit in Oath for a while now. It is so smooth, however too costly for Oath. This is my main problem with Oath’s draw engine, most good draw and tutors are too costly or a different color. I may splash black, use Mana Drain over Counterspell and put in Deep Analysis and Fact or Fiction. That, and Yawgmoth’s will is a huge proponent, however it will be discussed in the next topic. Library of Alexandria is fantastic, it literally wins control mirrors. However, so doesn’t Crucible of Worlds, and I sideboard that in Oath. I feel the deck with the most utility, consistency and overall draw strength has to be Control Slaver.

Threat-Base:

Oath:
4 Oath of Druids

Now some of you may look at this four card threat-base and shrug, and question me even posting this section. However, it’s solid, two-casting cost enchantment********** for the win. Being an enchantment is a huge proponent, it dodges an amazing amount of hate (specifically opposing Goblin Welder) directed at Workshop based decks. 5/3 still has Seal of Cleansing, but a first turn Trinisphere is a far greater threat. Oath of Druids can be played first turn, and be just as effective as playing it eighth turn. Its durability is withstanding, and it is easy to follow up with one, two or even three counter back up.

Control Slaver:
4 Goblin Welder
2 Mindslaver
1 Tinker
1 Pentavus
1 Platinum Angel
1 Triskelion

What you see here is a one-casting cost red goblin and five enormous bombshells that come out for three mana because of him. Tinker is purely ridiculous; a lot of decks can’t get through a first turn Pentavus or Platinum Angel. Pentavus, Platinum Angel and Triskelion are not virtually playable, however with so many ways to play them for three mana, and Mana Drains in the deck, it is a reality. However, despite all of this interaction, I feel the deck is extremely weak in the face of random removal then a few counters. That’s why Fish did have some game against it (not anymore due to some slot changes). I was at the Maine Lotus tournament when U/r Fish play four control slavers in the top 8, going 4-0 ( I came in ninth :0). Because of Control Slavers rush into things (first turn Tinker, etc.), and lack of an almost excessively strong counter base like Oath has, Oath has a better, more consistent threat-base. Now don’t get your panties in a twist when I say this, you are absolutely right that Control Slaver has more threats. However, will Control Slaver ever play a two casting cost win with 2-3 counter backup? If you say yes, then point out Goblin Welder, then you need to drop Elves or Keeper and play a deck that has answers. If your deck can’t beat a turn one Goblin Welder, then you need to seriously reconsider playing, or your deck.

Disruption:

Oath:
4 Force of Will
4 Counterspell
4 Mana leak
3 Wasteland
2 Misdirection
1 Strip Mine

This is what I love. Misdirection is one of my favorite cards of all time. It has seen better days, as it is not very useful against 5/3, but it toasts counter wars. Against Control Slaver, I find Mana Drain can really produce more threats you can deal with. So, Misdirect Mana Drain and they still don’t get mana. It is an all out counter in this match-up, leaving you seldom unprotected. It also can be a looming threat. Game one I misdirected an Ancestral on to me, and game two he seemed nervous. He was sitting with a Fire/Ice, which he could use to stop an Oath activation, (he had two spirit tokens) but he didn’t play it, as he knew if I misdirected, it would deal him two damage. This would make my kill 1 turn faster (but I had Time Walk, so it didn’t really matter). Counterspell over Mana Drain. This is very questionable, and I will be writing a topic on which build is better, U/G or B/U/G. Mana Leak is solid, first turn counter of an Island and a mox. The counter base here really supports the lack of a central draw like Control Slaver has. The four strip effects are extremely good. And when I say extremely good, I mean I am trying to weave Crucible somewhere in the deck. That good.

Control Slaver:
4 Force of Will
4 Mana Drain
2 Duress*

Force of Will and Mana Drain are obvious choices. I think people exaggerated how essential Mana Drain is to the deck. If you want to understand what I mean, then try playing with Counterspell instead. Of course I am not implying it’s more optimal, but it isn’t as terrible as many would think. I count Duress as a counter because it is a really rare card. Duress is both passively aggressive and defensive at the same time. It can set up some brokenness and protect you from dieing. It can get you that Force of Will so you can resolve Yawgmoth’s Will, or it can get you their Yawgmoth’s Will and let you live for a couple turns. This is an obvious choice; Oath has a better reactive side, and a better counter-base.

Match-up Analysis: Generalizations

Control: Oath and Slaver has some good game here. Oath has a two casting-cost threat, and a lot of counters. Control slaver has a good draw, decent counters and good threats. Both a very strong here, it can be due to play preference to play one or the other.

Aggro: Oath really dominates here. Slaver has some problems with Madness, and all Oath has to do is play an Oath of Druids and 1-2 counters. It’s a really simple choice.

Combo: Both have good match-ups, as Control Slaver has Duress, and sideboard Sphere of Resistance. Oath has it’s counters to rely on, except against Dragon, where they have enough disruption to get through it. Control Slaver really has better game here, but not by very much.

Workshop: If they don’t play a first turn Trinisphere, you don’t lose. However, there is still the rest of the game after that. Control Slaver has Goblin Welder, which can stall a good amount of turns. If Oath plays a first turn Oath, the game is over. Even though some builds play Seal of Cleansing, Oath really just caps it. I would say Control Slaver has a better match here.

Discussion Topics:
Which deck is better in an environment balanced between aggro and control?

Which one wins the mirror?

Should Oath play three colors?

Discuss which has better draw, threat, disruption and kill.

Oath of Druids verse Goblin Welder

general ON TOPIC thoughts, I really don’t want to see this discussion go badly.

Thank you for reading, debate! Discuss! Don’t flame! (Constructive criticism is very welcome, in fact encouraged)

-IShHmokeDaNKs