A New Deck and Tournament Report of Epic Proportions

[IShHmokeDaNKs]

A New Deck and Tournament Report of Epic Proportions

Admins: please leave this in the open forum, I feel it is more of a release of our deck than a tournament report, the report was just to give readers a feel on how to play the deck, thanks-ISD.

I live in Cape Cod, in a meta infested with more Control Slaver than fish (… the animal). I was having trouble defeating this over-populous deck, despite my valiant efforts with Rector Tricks, Oath and Dragon. But I failed. So I took my friends advice, “if you can not beat them, join them.” Holding my head in shame, I slowly begin to sleeve Control Slaver into my new pink sleeves. Ashamed of my failure, and of my overall loss to the inevitable conclusion, which is to play Slaver once and for all. I get distracted from the sleeving task at hand and wallow in my own depression (also affiliated with buying a candy bar). This is when it gets started. I then accidentally sleeve Gifts Ungiven, and get a nasty surprise in a tournament later. And by nasty, I mean innovative. This is when I began my virtue, my journey, with Gift Slaver.

We (The Cape Cod Crew) had many preliminary versions of Gift Slaver. It was built to abuse some serious tutoring effects, consisting of 3 Gifts and 3 Intuition. We tried out Accumulated Knowledge, but it met the same end as I feel it should in Goth Slaver. I would Intuition for Accumulated Knowledge 20-30 percent of the time. If I had no Welder out and one Accumulated Knowledge in my hand, I got three Accumulated Knowledge. In almost every other scenario, I either got big beats or utility, or Yawgmoth’s Will for the game (you have to see the build to understand).
So we have a couple options. We can cut AK or Intuition, or we can slim down the Intuition count. We started by cutting Accumulated Knowledge, and testing with 0-3 Intuition. Amazingly, Gifts Ungiven seemed to be better than Intuition. We couldn’t understand it, but in most scenarios Gifts was, well strictly better. So we started all over, eliminating Intuition for better utility for Gifts, and tested out Goblin Charbelcher- Mana Severance combo. Gifts turned into an all out house. Not only could it get me anything I needed, but I can abuse this stack:

Recoup
Yawgmoth’s Will
Black Lotus
Goblin Charbelcher or Mana Severance, depending on which I have in hand If I want to set up Y. Will then I get Tinker, Time Walk or Ancestral Recall.

This was our first build, providing a decent skin of the deck, until we got it down to a strong foundation.

Draw Mechanisms:
4 Thirst for Knowledge
4 Brainstorm
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Ancestral Recall

Regression/ Intrusion:
4 Force of Will
4 Mana Drain

Tutoring:
3 Gifts Ungiven
3 Intuition
1 Demonic Tutor

What you tutor for:
1 Yawgmoth’s Will
1 Tinker*

Utility/ Toolbox:
1 Goblin Charbelcher
1 Triskelion
1 Mindslaver
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Mana Severance
1 Recoup
1 Time Walk

Goblin Welder:
4 Goblin Welder

Mana Base:
4 Polluted Delta
4 Volcanic Island
2 Underground Sea
2 Island
1 Flooded Strand
1 Strip Mine
1 Seat of the Synod
7 Solomoxencrypt

* Tinker is a usual suspect for tutor targets, as you can instantly win through Belcher, and it is very useful with Recoup, as if it gets countered you recoup it, and if not then you recoup Time Walk and give them some business

The list is our first preliminary version. Then it survived a month of brutal testing against control mirrors, eventually morphing into what we hoped to be the perfect control deck.
…

…

…

A month has passed, and it survived a month of brutal testing against control mirrors. We found startling results at first, until it smoothened out towards the end. This deck has better draw than Shay Slaver, better tutoring/bombs than Goth Slaver, and 5 ‘Welder effects’ (not including sideboard).

After Trinisphere got restricted, we started testing old school stacker, and it’s a powerhouse and we will release in three weeks. For the mean-time, look out for it. Shops aren’t dead, not at all. We tested the match-up, and if the first turn Sphere (runs 5) is countered or isn’t played, Gift Slaver wins if it gets to 4-6 mana. The gift stack changes if they have a Sphere of Resistance out, and is typically formulated on spot. If you both have an active welder, and they have Sphere out, this is the normal stack (pre-sideboard):

Black Lotus
Time Walk
Recoup
Triskelion

most commonly, you get handed Recoup and Triskelion. So you weld in lotus and play Triskelion, killing their welder. After that, next turn you weld out their Sphere (for some fatty or a mox and recoup Yawgmoth’s Will and play it.

The hardest match-up for the deck is FCG. This is only a loss if you don’t Demonic/ Mystical for Tinker and Tinker for Triskelion. That and Mana Drain on an early Warchief/ Ringleader will do the trick. In combination with their Wastelands, a resolved Goblin Lackey often can over-produce to surmount the decks dwindling army, rarely consisting of more than a few Goblins on your side of the board. Playing around FCG is extremely hard. Since the deck is not based around slaver itself, chumping Lackey with welder happens on occasion. This is excluded when you have Thirst, Gift turn 2-3 and/or a Triskelion or fatty (meta-game dependant, can be Pentavus, Sundering Titan or Platinum Angel).

In the Gift Slaver vs. Control match-up it boils down to your favor. Though Oath can seemingly so outplay you in the beginning, as soon as you hit late game, you win. The reasoning I back this statement with is the deck is Yawgmoth’s Will. Yes, I know most every Control deck has it, but they are missing something. Gifts Ungiven enables the deck to set up will in one end step, and the one main phase. The deck is really centered on Yawgmoth’s Will, with 59 other insignificant cards to back it up. The game typically ends through Yawgmoth’s Will, as you Time Walk off it and then play Belcher/Mana Severance next turn. The only Control deck that has as much business as this from early to late game is Goth Slaver. Accumulated Knowledge really shines in late game, as if they’ve Intuitioned for them or not, they will be drawing 3-6 cards. The trick is slowly setting up Yawgmoth’s Will or a Slaver, and playing an end-step Gift for the win. That and an early Sundering Titan can get the job done. You really have to play the deck to understand how easy the Will set up is. Once you see the more updated list (towards the bottom of this post), build it. You will see what I mean.

Playing Gifts Ungiven: What for, when and why?
The hardest part about playing the deck is by far knowing how early to play Yawgmoth’s Will and what Gifts Ungiven stack to use. This is what I feel needs the most explanation, and deserves the most thought in-game. It can be used as an immediate card-source in Control match-ups, a utility for answers against aggro/ threats emitted from either control and occasionally combo (see:Worldgorger Dragon). Beyond this, if you have already set up the win through ultimate card/counter advantage, it can get the win for you. I tend to play Gifts from turns 3-7. In drawn out games against control, it tends to be latter. Early game, I tutor for something like this;

Black Lotus
Yawgmoth’s Will
Recoup
Ancestral Recall

this opens up the late-game and creates a huge gap in Controls plan. I realized this when I was reading Mike Flores article on tempo (an excellent article might I add, when of my personal favorites). Control slaver, in particular, relies heavily on tempo. Now, don’t get me wrong Mr. Shay and control slaver affiliates, it’s a different type of tempo. Not the kind of tempo Fish relied on, but a tempo that allows you to pass turns, and turn their attack step/ end step to your advantage. This is what control does, leaving counters open for their turn. Cards like Intuition and Thirst are examples. This deck does that just like Slaver, only my draw is better. Gifts Ungiven sets up a two-turn kill. The only deck that can compete with it in this factor is Team Gro Slaver. The reason I make this comparison between Intuition-Slaver, Control Slaver and Gift Slaver is Gift Slaver can just say ‘go’. I can not play a spell for two turns, play Gifts and win the next turn. If any Slaver player can contest this statement, I bid them good luck, and advise them to reconsider their statement by playing the deck. The stack changes with different positions on your and your opponent’s side of the board. If you have an active Welder, this is a very common stack;

Crucible of Worlds
Seat of the Synod
Mindslaver
Deep Analysis/ or a threat (Triskelion, Pentavus, Platinum Angel or Sundering Titan. Meta-dependant)

With this stack, you get handed a Mindslaver and a threat. If this happens, you play thirst and win with infinite slaver lock in one turn. Like I said, it’s the hardest part of playing the deck, and I know I make it seem simple writing it here, but actually playing it in a game is far more difficult. If you do not have Thirst in hand, this tends to be a usual stack;

Crucible of Worlds
Strip Mine
Mana Severance
Goblin Charbelcher

This makes them have to give you one of each combination’s. If they give you Strip Mine, you weld in Crucible, they can’t give you Crucible, as then you would have the combo. Keep in mind; this would be early game so Strip/ Crucible would be devastating. They can’t confidently give you Mana Severance/ Belcher, as then you have a kill stored in your hand. They give you Strip Mine and (if they are smart) Belcher. You then weld in Crucible, and do that business. After that, you can possibly kill through Belcher activation (not too many lands, and a Volcanic doubles the trouble).

This is our hot off the press build, the build I played in the proceeding tournament report (meta-gamed for the tournament)

4 Goblin Welder
4 Thirst for Knowledge
4 Mana Drain
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
3 Gifts Ungiven
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Mana Severance
1 Tinker
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Sundering Titan
1 Mindslaver
1 Triskelion
1 Deep Analysis/ Mystical Tutor
1 Yawgmoth’s Will
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Recoup
1 Goblin Charbelcher

Manbase:
4 Volcanic Island
4 Polluted Delta
3 Underground Sea
1 Island
1 Boseiju,
1 Strip Mine
1 Seat of the Synod
8 SoLoMoxenCrypt

Sideboard:
3 Chalice of the Void
3 Flame-Tongue Kavu
3 Lava Dart
3 Blue Elemental Blast
2 Duress
1 Platinum Angel

Round one: Eric with Control Slaver
He rolls a 19, I roll a 2 and he opts to play. He opens with Volcanic Island, Sol ring and passes the turn. My opening hand is decent, but not too great:
Underground Sea, Volcanic Island, Polluted Delta, Mox Sapphire, Gifts Ungiven and Goblin Welder. I am not too confident in mulliganing game one, so I keep as I’m on the draw. I top-deck Thirst for Knowledge, making this hand much better. I play Volcanic Island and Welder. Welder resolves, and I pass the turn. Eric untaps and draws, playing another Volcanic Island and passing the turn.
           My top-decking skill is once again prevalent, as I draw into Crucible of Worlds. I then play Strip Mine and Mox Sapphire, and pass the turn. Eric, however, has end-step effects. He plays a Thirst for Knowledge. I can thirst in response to Force it, but he doesn’t have an active Welder, so I let it resolves, meanwhile keeping my bluffed Mana Drain UU open. He draws three cards and discards a Mana Crypt.
   On Eric’s turn he untaps and draws, playing a Mox Jet. He then sacrifices Mana Crypt to Tinker. I can Thirst in response to Tinker, which would be the appropriate play. However, I think he does not have Triskelion in his build, as only Goth Slaver runs it, and Goth slaver would have shown me an Accumulated Knowledge or Intuition by now. So, I respond with Thirst for Knowledge anyways, as he may be holding a Mox to activate Mindslaver. Thirst resolves, and I draw into Mana Drain, Island and Triskelion. I discard Triskelion, and pray he doesn’t have the Mox in hand to activate Mindslaver (as he has three mana open). He searches for Pentavus and I give a sigh of relief. I guess his build may be outdated, but Pentavus is a good call in a field of aggro. End of his turn I weld out Pentavus for Sol Ring, and he makes three Pentavites in response. I untap and draw into a Polluted Delta, and debate between playing crucible and Strip Mining his land. I decide to Strip his land and Mana Drain his next key card, then use the mana on Crucible. I take out one of his Volcanic Islands, play Polluted Delta and pass. Oh Brainstorm, where art thou?
   On Eric’s turn he draws and attacks with the three 1/1 pentavites. I take three, and he plays a second main-phase Fire/Ice, targeting my Goblin Welder. I cast Mana Drain and my Welder lives. At his endstep I weld out Sapphire for my Triskelion, and take my turn. I draw into a Brainstorm, right on queue. I tap the Volcanic to Brainstorm into Brainstorm, Force of Will and Sol Ring. I put Island and Underground Sea back, and then fetch them away. I then use one of the mana to play Sol Ring, then tap the Sol Ring to play Crucible of Worlds. It resolves, and I recur a Strip Mine and hit his Volcanic. He notably missed his land-drop last turn, so it was to my full advantage. I know have six to five card superiority, and land advantage. This game ends quickly after that, and Gifts for this stack finishes him off:
Tinker
Time Walk
Recoup
Yawgmoth’s Will.

Sideboarding:
+2 Lava Dart

-1 Tinker (he just welds the fat out, and sideboarding is extremely difficult)
-1 Goblin Welder (if he boards up excessive hate, and I have his to mess around with)

Game two:
We both exercise our three minutes of shuffling, and I get dished this hand:
Time Walk, Demonic Tutor, Mox Ruby, Mox Jet, Mox Pearl and 2x Polluted Delta. I keep and so does Eric, who is on the play. He leads with a strong first turn, consisting of Mox pearl, Mox Sapphire, Time Walk and Brainstorm. He takes his Time Walk turn and taps Sapphire for Brainstorm. He then plays an Island and passes the turn.
   On my turn, I draw into Force of Will, and play Mox Jet, Mox Pearl, Demonic Tutor. It resolves, and I get Ancestral Recall. I then play Mox Ruby, Polluted Delta for an Island and Time Walk. On my Time Walk turn I draw into a Mana Drain. Starved for a resolved Ancestral, I glance happily at my Force of Will + blue card combo. He has three cards in hand, so I play the Ancestral, knowing if he goes Drain with Force backup, we both have no cards in hand, and I have more draw to top-deck. He attempts a Mana Drain on my Ancestal, which gets Forces removing Mana Drain. I draw my three cards, which were Mindslaver, Volcanic Island and Goblin Charbelcher. I fetch for an Underground Sea and play a resolved Goblin Charbelcher.
   On Eric’s turn he plays double brainstorm with no fetchland. He frowns at not seeing a red source I suppose, and passes the turn. I untap and draw Lava Dart. I then activate Goblin Charbelcher targeting him. It deals him eight damage (four cards revealed then a Volcanic) and I pass the turn. He draws and passes the turn. I draw into Gifts and play it. I decide to belch him out, as I only have 6 lands left in my deck. I get this stack:
Polluted Delta, Flooded Strand, Seat of the Synod and Boseiju, Who Shelters All. I keep Strand and Seat of the Synod and Fetch for my remaining Underground Sea. Then I pass the turn.
   Eric draws a card and passes, but I activate Belcher at his end-step. I hit him for 18, nine cards and then Volcanic, Eric stands up and sows me his hand, consisting of 4 Goblin Welders. Ouch, starved on red mana was a huge factor in winning this one.

I grab some food, as fatigue is the last thing any player playing a complicated deck needs.

Round two: Mike playing Dragon
Though I didn’t write down the dice roll, I remember I went first. Mike keeps his hand, and I keep this business:
Mana Drain, Force of Will, Volcanic Island, Underground Sea, Crucible of Worlds, Thirst for Knowledge and Demonic Tutor. I play Volcanic and pass the turn. Mike draws and plays Bazaar of Baghdad, activates it and discards 2 Squees and another Bazaar. I didn’t expect much Dragon here, so I’m not too happy, especially when they have a strong opening like that. I take my turn and draw into a Force of Will. I play an Underground Sea and pass the turn.
   On Mike’s turn he returns both Squees and untaps. He then activates Bazaar, discarding two squees and I think a land. Then he plays a Xantid Swarm off a Bayou, and I drain it. I use the one Drain mana to Demonic for Strip mine, and Strip his Bazaar. I play a main-phase Brainstorm into a third Force of Will, Mindslaver and a Volcanic Island. I put back Slaver and Crucible, which goes on top. On Mike’s turn he plays an Underground Sea and Mox Jet, then a Demonic Tutor. I force it removing Force, as he might get Dragon and hold back another Bazaar. My force resolves without a struggle, and I take my turn. I play Volcanic Island and Crucible. He shrugs, pretending he doesn’t care, and draws for his turn. At this point, I have three cards in hand (Mindslaver, Thirst for Knowledge and Force of Will) and he has six. I’m being out-drawn by Dragon, something I hate accepting. He misses his land-drop and passes the turn. I draw into Tinker, and replay Strip Mine from the grave. I strip his blue source, and he stifles. I don’t want him playing any Intuitions or Lim-Duals Vault, so I force it removing Thirst for Knowledge. His blue source goes to the grave, and I pass the turn.
   He plays a Polluted Delta off the top and grabs an Underground Sea. I take my turn and strip it, and he floats a blue. I exchange phases and he plays a Lim-Duals Vault. I Brainstorm in response into Island, Mox, welder. I let the vault resolves, then play welder and Tinker for mindslaver (which I put back with Brainstorm). I sense my fate is near, until I discover he only runs Sliver Queen and Caller of the Claw as kills. I inquired his reasoning, and it had some logic. He said he lost to Oath cause of Gaea’s Blessing. Then I told him you just keep milling them until it is in the bottom three cards, then Ancestral them. You have to do this through Compulsion. I activate Mindslaver, and it wins despite my opponent having 6,437 1/1 Slivers in play.

I sideboard BEBs and Duress

Game Two he mulls down to four cards, and I keep a strong hand. To say the most, he almost killed me but I forced the animate. It was a very impressive start from a 4 card hand, land Ancestral. Next turn Bazaar ditching 1 Squee, then Intuitioning off Lotus for two more Squee and a Dragon.

Round Three- Jason with Food Chain Joblins
I lose. End of story, it was a 1-2 loss, but his 17/2 Piledrives are more effective than my two Lava Darts. Game one he comboed me out early, game two I slaver him early and three he aggro’d me to death.

Round Four- Matt with Hulksmash-2002
The 2002 is dedicated to him, as he picked it up off his floor from way back in the day, changed some stuff around for the four Gush and played the deck. He was my favorite player of the day, being more colorful than most, and providing me with the most laughs in a game in a while.

Game one I actually killed him turn two with Force of Will to protect. I went first turn Mox, Lotus, Island, Timewalk. He then attempts to Force my Time Walk (I don’t know why) so I drain back, using the last blue to Brainstorm. On my Time Walk turn I play Mana Crypt and Goblin Charbelcher with one more Drain mana floating. I play Mana Severance and Belch him for 27. (Technically) a turn one kill with control. Ownage.

He tells me later that I sideboard as if I am playing combo, (Damping Matrix and affiliates) but I play first turn Tinker ~> Sundering Titan, and that ended that game rather fast.

Top Four-??? With TPS
I know this match-up even better than I know the Slaver match-up, as I only recently stopped playing TPS

Game one:
He wins the dice-roll and opts to play first. He plays a first turn Dark Ritual (and had it not been the first spell of the turn, I would have countered it) into Necropotence. I Force the Necro removing Fact or Fiction. I draw my card for turn, and this is my hand:
Force of Will, Black Lotus, Brainstorm, Goblin Welder, Flooded Strand and Volcanic Island. I play Lotus for blue and Brainstorm into Polluted Delta, Brainstorm and Thirst for Knowledge. I put back Polluted Delta and Volcanic Island, then Flooded Strand for the Volcanic. I use one of my remaining UU to Brainstorm again. I didn’t write down the other two cards, but a Gifts Ungiven was in the three. Then I play Goblin Welder with the Volcanic, and take a U burn. He draws, plays a fetch and Brainstorms, then breaks the fetch and passes the turn.
   I draw and play an Island, then move my lands slightly but noticeably upwards on the table, trying to bluff drain. He tries an end-step Ancestral, but I force it removing Gifts. My last card in hand is a Thirst for Knowledge, and he has five cards in hand. He plays another land and passes. I know what he is doing, trying to slow-play me until he kills me, probably in 2 more turns. I draw for my turn and play a fetch, getting Underground Sea. Then I play Thirst into Belcher, fetch and a mox. I ditch belcher and play the mox, then pass the turn.
   He draws and passes, missing a land drop. Now I know I was wrong, I’m not getting slow-played; he just has bad, un-cast able bombs in his hand. I weld in Belcher eot and draw my card. Then I fetch for an Underground Sea, and activate Blecher. I hit him for a measly one damage, and play a second welder. He draws, plays a mox (he has five mana) and passes. I suspect he has had FoW the whole time, just not the blue card to pitch. I draw a volcanic, and belch him again. He takes three, putting him down to thirteen. Then, I surprise attack him with my pair of Welders and then claim I’m bluffing ninjistsu. He laughs and marks his life total, and I do the same. I draw and Belch at him for eight, and attack with the team putting him at one. He fetches at my end-step (on purpose) and concedes the game.

Game two:
He gets a turn three kill on me, despite Force of Will and Duress.

Game three my notes started to get sketchy, but I know he Necropotenced down to three life early. I then attacked with Goblin Welder and Lava Darted him. Best.kill.ever. I bring in Lava Dart because Gifts is too slow here, and I never have time to play it. So I have tons of room, so anything that might be good in situations comes in, hence the Lava Dart. Chalice never made an appearance in both post-sideboard games .

I split with Jason playing FCG (I offered the split :p) and I took home a Mana Drain (contact me, it’s my fifth :p)

Please Discuss:
The deck in general
Better sideboard options (mine were trash all day)
If Duress should be MD or SB
Room for more Deep Analysis
and any regards to the tournament report

Thank you Cape Cod Crew for play-testing, specifically Chris and Greg. I would also like to give props to Team Gro’s Intuition Slaver, whose mana-base was a perfect start, and several of our ideas were generated from your deck.

Please give this post as much constructive criticism as moderators will allow. My writing and deck design isn’t perfect, though that is subject to your judgment. Thank you for reading – Matt.

Edit: I was told not to release this before the next Waterbury, but I got anxious, sorry Chris   .

[Kowal]

You're behind the times.  A better list (in my opinion) was released by Andy Probasco and the rest of Team Short Bus at Syracuse the same day, and it was published on the premium side of the coverage.

For those of you with premium, you can read it here.

[IShHmokeDaNKs]

You're behind the times.  A better list (in my opinion) was released by Andy Probasco and the rest of Team Short Bus at Syracuse the same day, and it was published on the premium side of the coverage.

Lists speak louder than words, especaily typed words. I am not a premium member, as I think the articles there are trash. Could you PM me a list, or simply post it here? I have been testing this for over six weeks, I am most certainly not 'behind the times', it was merely a timing issue between the release of your deck and mine. That sucks on my part, I was too late. Well, atleast that means I'm on the right track.
-ISD

[Kowal]

It's like a handful of spare change for membership on SCG.  I'm not going to send you premium content when you could just sign up and read the coverage for damn near nothing.

[Methuselahn]

You're both behind the times. A better list (in my opinion) was released by myself and the rest of Team Reflection the same day, and it was published on the premium side of our website.

For those of you with access to our website, you can read it here.


Congrats for placing with your own deck!  There are things that look random to me, but that seems to be the case with Gifts Ungiven decks.

[Hyperion]

Keep replies on-topic, please.

[BreathWeapon]

The synergy between Gifts Ungiven and Goblin Welder is obvious. Many people recognized this and many people played versions of Gifts Ungiven/Goblin Welder decks.

I had 4 Gifts in my Slaver deck as soon as the card was spoiled, but that doesn't meen I can claim to have invented the deck.

Who cares?

That said,

Gifts Ungiven for Mindslaver, Pentavus, Platinum Angel and either Sundering Titan or Duplicant and Triskellion with a Goblin Welder on the board is devestating. It allows the deck to play any role it chooses in its matches. It also compacts the secondary Draw Engine, allowing the deck the ability to play Black.

[Vood]

I discovered Gifts ungiven also into slaver. I posted my list recently. (Kamigawan Slaver)

A lot of cards can be played for gifts. Think about

 - Recall
 - Recoup
 - Trash for treasure

Usually, I always use yawgmoth will in the stack for gift ungiven. It forces the opponent to chose 2 cards out of 3 with Yawg will in the stack. Let's say we go for

Yawgmoth Will
Recall
Ancestral Recall
Tinker

They can't really give yawg will. If they give recall, you can get back will and ancestral back. It is amazing the strange decisions the opponent will end up with such a stack.

Oh and remember, themanadrain.com is now a subsidiary of starcitygames and no longer an independent web site since they sold out their content to them. It is now not allowed to talk about decks posted on starcitygames because they are copywrited by starcitygames. Hey, maybe you deck is copywrited now.

While several well-known TMD users (including the site owner) are also involved with SCG, this site is still independent. Your poor attempt at humor is uncalled for. Please try to keep your posts on-topic. -jeek

[TheDB]

Origination of a deck is relatively meaningless.  A perfection of a decklist and correct playing is really what matters.

I was playing a straight U/b belcher list since about september and I can hardly claim that I invented it.  It played like Tog until you drained into a blecher + severance.   I made a couple top 8s with it, but nothing too significant.  recently I played against a fellow who mentioned he used to play a U/r version of serverance with welders, but had abandoned the belcher in favor of a more slaver version.  Which got me thinking that I should splash red for welders and recoup. I must say, it changed the deck a LOT, but also added a lot of power and flexibility.  My list is different from yours, but I would agree that it is a great deck archetype.


that said....

I am curious if the addition of slaver and crucible (and even titan) really helps in the decks effectiveness.  It can't really abuse slaver like the control slaver decks (creating an infinite lock) and can't have a early lock with crucible like workshop decks.  Couldn't those slots be dedicated to something that will allow the deck to out right win?  And if these targets ARE great and even better, Is the decks skeletoon better suited to drop the severance belch and just be more like its Control-Slaver brother?

The Mind slaver can be a good tutor out (some decks do can kill themselves so easily). but I really do question the crucible the most.  It seems more like a "nice thing to have" than a game stopper (something I would look for in a tutor target).



-D

[thecapn]

I am curious if the addition of slaver and crucible (and even titan) really helps in the decks effectiveness.  It can't really abuse slaver like the control slaver decks (creating an infinite lock) and can't have a early lock with crucible like workshop decks.  Couldn't those slots be dedicated to something that will allow the deck to out right win?  And if these targets ARE great and even better, Is the decks skeletoon better suited to drop the severance belch and just be more like its Control-Slaver brother?

The Mind slaver can be a good tutor out (some decks do can kill themselves so easily). but I really do question the crucible the most.  It seems more like a "nice thing to have" than a game stopper (something I would look for in a tutor target).

Mindslaver + Crucible of Worlds + Seat of the Synod is an infinite lock.  Weld out the Seat for Slaver, Slave them, then replay Seat as your land for the turn.  This wins outright.

Fetching Crucible of Worlds + Strip Mine + Triskelion + Sundering Titan with Gifts is amazing vs. Control Slaver.  It allows you to get long term resource advantage, and this, combined with an a dollar monster, really ensures you're gong to win the long game.  Also, drawing both Crucible and Strip will randomly win you games.

The addition of these cards gives the deck a lot of flexibility, and the tools to take multiple paths to victory to handle a variety of situations.  A lot of these ways are playing the more traditional control deck, and while they don't win immediately they often give you more long term flexibility and utility.

[TheDB]

Fetching Crucible of Worlds + Strip Mine + Triskelion + Sundering Titan with Gifts is amazing vs. Control Slaver.  It allows you to get long term resource advantage, and this, combined with an a dollar monster, really ensures you're gong to win the long game.  Also, drawing both Crucible and Strip will randomly win you games.

While I agree with being able to have flexibility in a deck, you also have to consider efficiency and if you are watering down a deck.

You could fetch Crucible + Strip mine + trisk + Titan, or you could get Yawgmoths will + Recoup + demonic tutor + tinker  EOT and win on your turn. (something I have done with a similar decklist)

 Some of those components mentioned  are good ways to randomly win, but wouldn't you rather have a consistant path to victory that you could rely on?

[BreathWeapon]

Fetching Crucible of Worlds + Strip Mine + Triskelion + Sundering Titan with Gifts is amazing vs. Control Slaver.  It allows you to get long term resource advantage, and this, combined with an a dollar monster, really ensures you're gong to win the long game.  Also, drawing both Crucible and Strip will randomly win you games.

While I agree with being able to have flexibility in a deck, you also have to consider efficiency and if you are watering down a deck.

You could fetch Crucible + Strip mine + trisk + Titan, or you could get Yawgmoths will + Recoup + demonic tutor + tinker  EOT and win on your turn. (something I have done with a similar decklist)

 Some of those components mentioned  are good ways to randomly win, but wouldn't you rather have a consistant path to victory that you could rely on?

If by consistant path to victory you meen a consistant path to Null Rod, then no. Diversifying your threats doesn't make the deck inconsistant, it makes it more resistant.

[TheDB]

If by consistant path to victory you meen a consistant path to Null Rod, then no. Diversifying your threats doesn't make the deck inconsistant, it makes it more resistant.

That isn't always true.  If your deck loses focus than it will fail.  and bringing up an easily answerable hoser (null rod) doesnt' change that.

what I am trying to disucss is that the core of the deck, mana severance and goblin charbelcher, may be strong enough to cary the deck without adding everything else.  

I saw a list with a triskelion main and a Collosus side seems like enough of an extra element to help the deck along.  the other cards (titan, crucible, mindslaver) can be good, but they don't seem needed.

[Whatever Works]

Having played this deck sinse it was introduced to me by Andy Probasco I have had alot of playtesting with the deck and have come to conclussion that there is no reason to run any more kill beyond Trike/Belcher. Having cards such as Titan/mindslaver/crucible just make the deck slower, and less combo oriented, and more like a bad version of control slaver.

SB2 (ShortBus Severence Belcher) is such a good deck, because it can essentially win the game the turn after it resolves Gifts Ungiven, and with any deck that can do that... why would you waste time delaying the combo with cute tricks... that could be better... more effective cards that help get to the combo...

Boseju doesnt fit to well in this deck as well, because why is it needed when you can recast all your sorceries with recoup anyway??? Im sure it can be usful, but the deck needs colored mana severally (especially if u want to consistently cast 1st turn Welder or Duress)...

Kyle

[Toad]

Regarding your "My deck is better than yours and I'm the first who designed it" interesting discussion, I just wanted to point out the fact that the Germans from Team CAB have been playing a Gifts Ungiven based Belcher Severance deck for 4 monthes now. Decklists have been posted on StarCityGames 2 monthes ago.

[Chamelet]

<knutgone> For the record, we don't care if you guys post individual decklists on the site that came from premium
<knutgone> decklists are free info

So feel free to copy/paste decklists to these forums when you link premium articles/content.

So, can anyone post the Team ShortBus list? I'm playing a modified version of the CAB list for 2 months now and I want to know how does the Belcher version plays.

Anyway, I like your list. I guess you could use the Balance technique to stop FCG.
Try: Cutting the Boseiju for a Tundra; cut Seat of the Synod for Flooded Strand; cut Slaver and Crucible for Darksteel Colossus (alternative win) and Balance.
What do you think?

[IShHmokeDaNKs]

I have a formal apology to present to two separate groups of people, for two separate reasons. The first is to all the people who can't grasp that Crucible of Worlds is an infinite slaver lock, which I decided not to post in the original topic. I did so, as I thought the level of understanding was above that of Star City Games forum, but I was reprimanded for my negligence. I gave users too much credit, and like my English teacher says, I should say everything like I'm talking to a computer without a hard drive, and all it knows is what I tell it. So I will. The second apology goes out to the better Mana Drainers, the ones who hold eminent thought and edict within every sentence of their post. I apologize because I was in a, as JP would say, INTARNET FIGHT, over the origins of my deck. I sunk to the levels of shameless trash talkers to fight over my testing of the deck. It won't happen again.

Now, let's try to forget this posts past and keep it on topic please, as it seems to be the downfall of most posts in this forum.

Try: Cutting the Boseiju for a Tundra; cut Seat of the Synod for Flooded Strand; cut Slaver and Crucible for Darksteel Colossus (alternative win) and Balance.
What do you think?

Boseiju is now cut for another basic Island at the moment, I tested Balance but it proved to be the last thing I would Gifts for, if I ever did at all. Darksteel Colossus is horrible. If your opponent has a Goblin Welder out, it is completely useless. If they have a welder out, I get either Triskelion or Sundering Titan, depending on the situation. In most situations, I get Sundering Titan.

Toad wrote:

I just wanted to point out the fact that the Germans from Team CAB have been playing a Gifts Ungiven based Belcher Severance deck for 4 months now. Deck lists have been posted on StarCityGames 2 months ago.

This is where I got some ideas for it. The only difference between the decks is mine has a better draw and abuses Welder. They found use for Duress, which is an excellent card for the meta right now. I am changing the deck around to beat combo, and stacker. Let me tell you, Stacker is going to be a house, don't take out your artifact hate at all, in fact, plan on leaving room for more.

Whatever Works:

no reason to run any more kill beyond Trike/Belcher

I disagree with this more than anything. Unlike other builds, I use Goblin Welder. This changes the deck more than anything. I can now use such fat as Sundering Titan as an early game win.

Titan/mindslaver/crucible just make the deck slower, and less combo oriented

This made me angrier than anything. I can't believe this, I spent several paragraphs explaining how to play the deck in the Tournament report. This is NOT a combo orientated deck! It's a control deck, that kills you in one swift turn. End step gifts, win on my turn. End step tutor, win on  my turn. From turns 1-7 they should literally think you are playing Control Slaver. I'm extremely frustrated that people post things like this when I clearly am making this deck NOT COMBO ORIENTED.

SB2 (ShortBus Severence Belcher) is such a good deck, because it can essentially win the game the turn after it resolves Gifts Ungiven, and with any deck that can do that... why would you waste time delaying the combo with cute tricks... that could be better... more effective cards that help get to the combo...

... It's a one card combo, Gifts Ungiven. The only difference between my deck and SB2 is Short Bus's build puts all of there men on one boat. When the boat sinks, they lose. With The Gift of the Cape (the codename for it while we tested) you can Thirst away Slaver and kill them, you can Severance/Belcher, you can Trike them, Sundering Titan them, or even Cruci/Strip Mine lockdown. My deck is much slower, but much more flexible. It's like the Dragon or TPS of Control.

breathweapon:

If by consistent path to victory you mean a consistent path to Null Rod, then no. Diversifying your threats doesn't make the deck inconsistent, it makes it more resistant.

Thank you so much. This post made me reply to everyone. If you ever want to know why I use all these cards that make the deck look 'janky', read this post. .

The Capn:
You are dead on. That is the exact stack we plan against control mirrors, and your flexibility arguments are great. You can tell that the players who understand the interaction between the several Gift stacks have much better post quality, and it shows here   . Though some players only see getting the combo side of the deck, Gifts Ungiven gives you resources to spend late game, and until someone activates a slaver, you should be ready for late game. The only change is, I get Mindslaver on occasion instead of Sundering Titan, depending on the situation however.

Methuselahn and Kowal:
Despite my respect for using the same egotistical approach that Kowal use, it ultimately outlined you fighting ignorance with arrogance. I don't mean these words to be harsh, but it is clear you both want the same thing, for separate reasons. Kowal has never been my favorite poster, as he tends to take things to an off-topic census immediately (hence is post). Methuselahn, thank you for the compliments on my deck. However, two wrongs don't make a right, only two lefts can do that.

Conclusion:
It is now clear to me that people don't fully understand how the deck plays out. GC and Mana Severance are there merely because its an affordable, instant kill combo piece that can be Gift Ungivened for. It is not the center of the deck, and is a control deck. This is the best way I can put how the deck plays:

Dragon is roughly 70 percent a combo deck (arguably) and thirty percent control (draw engine, disruption etc.). Now, reverse that. Gift Slaver is 70-80 percent control, and 20 percent combo. This is not the actual deck itself, it's how it plays out. That is as simple as I can put it, and if it isn't simple enough, then I don't think your posts will help the topic at hand, instead it will create a massive proliferation of sub-par statements that could probably surpass president Bush at the State of the Nation Address.

[Revvik]

Actually, three lefts.

I also would like to see Shortbus's list for a comparison.  Gifts Ungiven has been sitting around for a long, looong time before CAB released their list, and I like seeing every attempt to use the card to say "I win."

Plus, Charbelchers have a nice little "Gunslinger" feel.
Boseiju was an interesting inclusion for your original list, and is another card that unfortunately has yet to make a splash in Vintage.

I echo the sentiment that Sundering Titan is a major bomb: with the loss of Trinisphere, multi-colored control could attempt a comeback, and finding room for him (or cutting something for him if he better fits your playstyle) could definitely pay off.

[TheDB]

I have a formal apology to present to two separate groups of people, for two separate reasons. The first is to all the people who can't grasp that Crucible of Worlds is an infinite slaver lock, which I decided not to post in the original topic.

I had missed the seat of synod in your decklist.  It was pointed out.  No need to resort to more "trash talking" like you say you want to avoid.  IT was covered.

"Titan/mindslaver/crucible just make the deck slower, and less combo oriented"
This made me angrier than anything. I can't believe this, I spent several paragraphs explaining how to play the deck in the Tournament report. This is NOT a combo orientated deck! It's a control deck, that kills you in one swift turn. End step gifts, win on my turn

You shouldn't get mad at his comment.  Especially when you are trying to acheive the same thing that he has stated.  Same as the other version, you want to control the game (control deck) and then win via severance-belch (combo win).  No need to get Titan if you can get belcher and Mana severance, is the point. You can just win, not win more.


If the deck is refined to perfection, why ask for comments that only seem to get you mad?

[IShHmokeDaNKs]

I am at fault once again. I am not angry at you, or the reasoning behind the statement. It's the fact that I have to go through each part of the deck to such extenses that a baby with a magnifying glass could decipher their meanings.

If the deck is refined to perfection, why ask for comments that only seem to get you mad?

I do not know how to respond to your inquires, because the deck is nowhere near perfected. Of course I want intelligent comments regarding the deck, good or bad.  Comments that I expressed my reasoning toward in my original post that are challenged give me a problem. Challenge my reasoning, not the cards. (but still challenge my list, it has room for improvement).

Sundering Titan is still in the list, and I am testing without Boseiju.

[Jacob Orlove]

4 Polluted Delta
3 Island
3 Volcanic Island
3 Underground Sea
1 Library of Alexandria

1 Triskelion
1 Goblin Charbelcher

1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Pearl
1 Black Lotus
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sol Ring
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mana Vault

4 Force of Will
4 Mana Drain
4 Brainstorm
4 Thirst for Knowledge
3 Gifts Ungiven
1 Deep Analysis
1 Mana Severance
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Tinker
1 Time Walk
1 Mystical Tutor

3 Duress
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Yawgmoth's Will

3 Goblin Welder
1 Recoup

Sideboard:
3 Rack and Ruin
3 Red Elemental Blast
3 Chalice of the Void
2 Lava Dart
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Darksteel Colossus
1 Echoing Truth

That's the list Brassman ran.

[Whatever Works]

I sincerally believe it isnt worth argueing over who created the lists, because the lists that I have seen printed are extremely different... SB2 (andy's version) is the most controlling efficient version that runs black for Duress... The original list posted for this thread looks more like a modified Control Slaver that did decent at Waterbury... CAB is the team that originally abused Gifts Ungiven... Its hard to give any1 to much credit, but its extremely hard to argue with SB2 results... I went 4-1-1 with it 2 weeks ago, Andy T8'ed with it 3 weeks ago, and then was going to top 8 at syracuse with his list (if not for showing up late for a round), but I think it really all is about play style as Andy was talking about the extreme versitility of the deck, and how we were discussing dropping Goblin Welder altogether because its rather usless most of the time accept for defensive purposes.

Kyle

[zero]

I like the idea behind the gifts decks, but what do you feel are the reasons to run it over the similar control slaver? Does it have any inherent superiority? What do you feel are it's weaknesses? Does it have different matchups/playstyles vs decks than c slaver?
I do agree that the welder seems useless most of the time, but it has come in useful. I goldfished (the brassman list) a few times, and it really seemed to need a truckload of mana. Half the time I'd weld out a used mana vault for a mana crypt/lotus in the yard just to fuel recoup and yawg will in the same turn (7 mana total). And is the lone deep analysis that useful?