How do you guys deal with wastelands? Making sure that you get the bazaar back (LftL? petrifiel field?) Or are you more focussed on protecting the BoB with needles? Or do you just make sure that you have other BoB effect's (breakthrough, carefull study).

I tried making a mono-black ichorid deck but the deck was too slow when a wasteland pops your BoB in the first turns. I think the best way is to sideboard pithing needle and try to have additional mainboard BoB effects in your deck. I chose to add 4 carefull studies. These are the only mainboard blue cards (not even ancestral , because I cannot find any room). what would you prefer in mainboard: 4 leylines or (2x breakthrough, 1x ancestral recall, 1x crop rotation) or other cards.

At this moment, i'm playing this decklist:

Land:
4x Bazaar of Baghdad
4x Gemstone Mine
4x City of Brass
1x Mox jet
1x Black Lotus
1x Chrome Mox

Disruption
4x leyline of the void
4x cabal therapy
4x unmask
4x chalice of the void

Dredge:
4x Grave-troll
4x Stinkweed Imp
2x Galgori thug

Utilities:
4x Carefull study
3x Putrid Imp
1x Dread Return
1x Vampiric Tutor

Creatures:
4x Nether Shadow
2x Ashen Ghoul
4x Ichorid

Sideboard:
1x Imperial Seal (more chances to fetch you hate cards 2-3 game)
3x Null Rod (doubts because of 2cc)
4x Pithing Needle
2x Ray of Revelation
2x Life from the Loam (good against LD but also 2cc)
3x stifle (good against Wastelands + Crypts)

I adjusted the deck and now the decklist is:

2x island
3x polluted delta
4x bazaar of baghdad
4x cephalid coliseum
4x ichorid
4x stinkweed imp
4x golgari thug
4x golgari grave-troll
4x nether shadow
2x laquatus champion
2x dread return
1x ancestral recall
1x chrome mox
3x brainstorm
3x breakthrough
4x careful study
4x chalice of the void
4x cabal therapy
1x lotus petal
1x mox sap
1x black lotus

I did a lot of goldfishing and I made notes of 3 random games:

------
1st turn:
hand: bazaar, lotus, careful, breakthrough, island, nether shadow, cabal therapy
lotus -> sac 3 blue
bazaar -> draws stinkweed + thug & dump stinkweed + thug + therapy
careful study -> dredge stinkweed and thug (no new dredge cards in GY) -> dump them both again.
breakthrough for x=1 -> dredge stinkweed (2x troll in GY), dredge 2x troll (1x troll in GY), dredge troll, dump everything and keep island
GY now contains 38 cards (3 nether shadow, 4 ichorid, 2 champion, 2x dread return)

2nd turn:
get back undead and swing for 15. Dredge some more.
Sac 3 ichorids for 3 cabal therapies. Clear the way for the dread return of the champion and
hit for 6. Total life loss 21.

------
1st hand: lotus, delta, coliseum, 2x ichorid, grave troll, thug
muligan -> 2nd hand: troll, cabal, chalice, careful, bazaar, recall

1st turn:
chalice -> x=0
bazaar -> draws imp and delta & discard trol, imp , therapy
2nd turn:
upkeep -> use bazaar: dredge troll & imp and discard troll, imp and study
drawstep -> dredge troll
main step -> delta for island. play recal. Dredge 3 times (troll, imp, thug)
GY now contains 32 cards (4x ichorid, 2x shadow)

3th turn:
get back undead and swing for 14. Dredge some more.
Sac 3 ichorids for 3 cabal therapies. Clearing the way for the dread return of the champion and
hit for 6. Total life loss 20.

-----
1st hand: 2x thug, 2x bazaar, chalice, ichorid, mox sap.
1st turn
chalice- > x=0
use bazaar: draws breakthrough + coliseum and discards: ichorid + 2x thug
mox s -> mana and playing breakthrough. Dredge thug: troll in GY. Dredge troll: imp in gy.
dredge imp: troll in GY. Dredge troll. discard everything.
GY contains 27 cards (3x ichorid + nether shadow + champion + dread return)

that's 16 damage during second turn (or 10 damage + some therapies)
--------

From playtesting I can say that this deck will reliable kill on 3th turn, but it sometimes even can kill 2nd turn. I'm usually in the position to do 10+ damage during my 2nd turn + playing cabal therapies. This is one turn faster then the normal ichorid build (3th/4th turn).

You can almost always (90% of the time) play multiple cabal therapies during your 2nd turn. This disruption should be enough to control your victory. The only problem that I experience is that it is more difficult to find answers to sideboard hate (i cannot tutor for the cards).

I'll do some more testing and keep you informed!

okay I also tried the other ichorid builds before I came up with this decklist. The problems that I experienced with the other decklists were mainly lack of draw engines. I couldn't dump my library fast enough in the graveyard and with the hermit build I experienced a lot of mana screws, especially caused by wastelands. So I tried to analyze the basic concepts of this deck and I think that the fundamental of this type of deck is speed! You have to try to outrun combo decks and siderboard cards. Some cards are impossable to outrun (ie Crypt) but cards like confinements take a few turns before the come into play. Also Tendrils is a real bad matchup unless you can disrupt his whole hand the second turn by therapy-ing him for at least 2-3. So I tried to gain some speed but it causes automatically to lose some control/disruption. I think that you gain a lot of speed by only adding dredge support cards aka card drawing.
When I goldfished this deck, I was able to dump my whole deck in the graveyard by the third turn and occasionally be able to therapy the opponent second turn with 2 therapies at least. Carefull studies are really good...they function as 5-8 bazaars. I'm not that fond of the brainstorm though....it might be better to replace them with breakthroughs. This also makes it less inconvenient when you bazaar is wasted, because it will enable you to discard dredge cards to your library.

The problems that I experienced mostly was the lack of power during the first "big" assault. The lack of ashen ghouls forces another attack/turn to finish the opponent. I tested nicol bolas. If you attack with him during 3th turn, you will basically win because your opponent has nothing left in their hands to kill you. I like the idea of playing laquata's champion instead of nicol bolas if it enables you to win in that turn. I didn't think of the cephalid coliseum but it seems like a very good substitution.

Another more psychological element of this deck is that you play mono blue ! people will expect counters and they will adjust their strategy to it, probably resulting in playing more careful and therefore perhaps slower (gives you better chances of winning I think).

I think this deck has a better potential of winning the first game compared to other ichorid builds but it's much less viable after sideboarding. Too many GY hate is available to disrupt this deck and you have almost nothing you can do against it. (except sideboarding stuff like needles and chains of vapor maybe).

I will also try fetchland. They might work.

Okay their is still a lot of work to do to make this deck tournament viable but I think that this deck is much more agressive because it's focussed on the main thing! Dredging! But we'll have to find a way to overcome the loss of control and disruption, maybe by generating a faster kill.

I don't think you need black mana. You won't hardcast Cabal therapies because it's a huge tempo lost. The first two turns you only play utilities (brainstorm etc). You will never have enough mana to hardcast ichorid. This is also the reason I don't play time walk. I could add in a black lotus but I don't think you need the mana.
 Fow's are also not necessary. You are not afraid of anything (except graveyard hate).
I thought about fetch but these are also not necessary! They can be stifled and don't add any profound advantages.

Hi People,

I'm trying to make a ichorid deck that's a little bit different than previous decks. I'll first give the decklist.

Land/mana:
4x bazaar of Baghdad
12x Island
1x Mox Sapphire

Creatures:
4x Golgari Grave-Troll
4x Golgari-Thug
4x Stinkweed Imp
2x Nicol Bolas
4x Nether shadow
4x Ichorid

Utilities
4x Cabal Therapy
4x Chalice of the void
4x Careful Study
4x Brainstorm
1x Ancestral Recall
2x Dread Return
2x Dragon Breath

The idea is simple. Use bazaar and stuff like carefull study to get some nice dredge spells into your graveyard. Use card drawing (brainstorm/recall/study) to abuse dredge to fill up your graveyard. Then use the undead creatures to swing at your opponent. You can also sac them to therapy for disruption, or you can make advantage of dread return to bring out a big fellow (nicol bolas for instance, but things like duplicant or sundering titan are also possible) and disrupt/kill/annoy your opponent. Dragon breath is there to give the creature haste.
This deck is really fast and pre sideboarding it's going to kill your opponent on your third turn.
The only problem is after sideboarding.....Tormod's crypt is not Fun! But your sideboard consists of pithing needles and annul. And ofcourse you have mainboard chalice.

Please give me your thoughts and ideas on this deck!

I played the following decklist:

Mainboard:
4x root maze
2x Hidden Gibbons
2x chain Lightning
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Grim Lavamancer
3x rancor
3x river boa
4x kird ape
4x wild mongrel
3x elvish spirit guide
3x tin street hooligan
3x gorilla shaman
3x forest
4x taiga
3x Mountain
4x wooded foothills
1x bloodstained mire
1x lotus petal
4x Wasteland
1x strip Mine

Sideboard:
4x pyrostatic pillar
4x naturalize
4x red elemental blast
3x Elvish lyrist

I really like the hooligans! They are awesome! I also experienced that root maze and wasteland/strip mine were not optimal.
I found these cards not very usefull. Also mainboard hidden giibons were not a succes
I'll try to find other r/g decklist and compare them.
What are your opinions about root maze and strip effects? They seem to slow me down more then my opponent.

Hi guys,

aaarghhh...I have been slaught during the tournament yesterday!!
I had no chance against most of the decks.
I lost from:
Wild Zombies (became the winner of the tournament) (powered) (2-0)
Affinity (full-powered) (2-0)
some land destruction deck (non-powered). I had no answer to his gigantic Terravores. (2-1)
Doomsday (went off two times in turn 2   ) (2-0)

R/G tempo seems to less agressive and didn't have answers to big creature



 

I like some of your ideas. Here are my thoughts on your comments:

<quote>
I've found that having more utility is more useful than having more burn, so
-4 chain lightning
+4 naturalize/artifact mutation (depending on if you face more Stax or Oath)</quote>
I agree that utility might me better. Perhaps I should play Hull Breach instead of naturalize/artifactt mutation.


<quote>

-4 Land Grant
+4 Elvish Spirit Guide
this gives you mana acceleration and decent beats if you need.  Speaking of mana, I would drop Pendelhaven, it seems to random and wastelandable, not to mention the ability doesn't seem that useful.
</quote>
During the tournament I found out that the pendelhaven is indeed useless. I really like the land grants. They decrease the possibility of drawing land in a further stage of the game and showing your hand is not that important because usually you play al the cards within 2 turns. I like the idea of ESG for mana accelaration and beat down but I have to playtest it to see if it is good enough

<quote>

-4 river boa
-4 granger guildmage
+4 wild mongrel
+4 basking rootwalla

</quote>
I really like this idea...but I think it will only work when you also play grim lavamancer.
The granger is also really good against welder! But I'll try your idea.

<quote>

However, you still need some direct damage besides bolt, so
-3 Mogg Maniac
-1 Pendelhaven
+4 Grim Lavamancer
Will help the game vs Fish and welders.

</quote>
QFT!

<quote>

Finally, since the deck doesn't have the broken mana acceleration available to it, you need some way to slow down your opponents, so
-4 elvish lyrist
+4 root maze
Slows down every deck with minimal effect to you.  It is especially good when you have an untapped wasteland to their tapped fetchland, and your gorilla shaman to their tapped moxen/lotus.

</quote>
Root maze might be really good. I'm definately going to play it and see how usefull it is!

I like this new idea about r/g tempo but is seems less agressive then beatz. Here's a general idea of the meta (the asked 24 people what kind of deck they played) , maybe you can give me more detailed advice regarding my sideboard.

//Control\\
1 x 3C Control*
1 x UbaStax*
1 x Control Slaver*
3 x Oath*
2 x Psychatog**
1 x Stax
1 x 4C Control*
1 x Landstill

//Control/Aggro\\
2 x UW Fish**

//Combo/Control\\
1 x Salvagers Oath*
1 x Gifts

//Combo\\
1 x Doomsday*
1 x ‘Multiclass’ Tendrills*
1 x Eye of the Storm*
1 x Aluren

//Aggro\\
1 x Black Fish
1 x BW Pikula
1 x GW Beatdown
1 x Red
1 x Elves

* means full-powered

Hi Guys,
I need your advice on this deck. I played this deck a couple of weeks ago in a vintage tournament and became 3th. There were around 50 players and most decks were powered. The next tournament is in a couple of weeks so please help me tweak this deck so I might get even beter results. The meta of the tournament consists of stax, u/w fish, oath, gifts, welder etc. The top 10 players usually play full powered tier 1 decks. When you get in the top 8 without playing p9 you get your prices doubled. That's why I'll leave the power out this time. During the last tournament i only lost from a u/w fish deck :/ I think I don't have to explain this decklist. It is just hate against everything. I have some ideas for improvement myself and I would like your thoughts about it. Also other comments are very appreciated. My sideboard probably needs the most tuning.

My issues:
Put in treetop villages: It is slow but it beats the opponent

replace the shamans for goblin vandals: They might be better but don't do damage

Playing naturalize: It's a good card but it would probably replace creatures and I don't like decreasing number of creatures.

playing call of the herd: very mana intensively.

some other cards that might be good: scan-clan mauler, gruul guildmage, skyshroud elite, artifact mutation, grim lavamancer, cursed scroll

i like playing mogg maniacs but there are probably better cards.

Most problems occur when the opponent survives the first couple of turns by playing Bolts, Stp's etc.
Because I don't have any cards left in my hand after a few turns and I cannot keep pressure on my opponent.


Decklist:

Land:
1x PendelHaven
3x forest
3x mountain
4x wooded foothills
1x Strip Mine
4x Taiga
4x Wasteland

Spells:
4x Land Grant
1x Lotus petal
4x Chain Lightning
4x Lightning Bolts
4x Rancor

Creatures:
4x Granger Guildmage
4x River Boa
4x Kird Ape
3x Mogg Maniac
4x Gorilla Shaman
4x elvist Lyrist

Sideboard:
4x red elemental Blast
3x Hidden Guerrillas
4x hidden gibbons
4x tormod's crypt


Thanks for all advice and comments!
Blauw