While I know nothing of your father's current profession and/or his field of expertise, your comment here is actually in line with my position. Unless you're making the claim that your grad school professors were not employed in their doctoral fields, then addressing them as "Dr. ____" would be entirely fitting.

And I'm sorry as well, Steve. I wasnt aware that Rich's comment and my reply would generate such an ongoing off-topic debate. If anyone wants to continue the discussion it would be best for us to take it to personal messages from here on out.

That's fine. It is "widely accepted"; however, in many cases it's not proper. Without people like you it wouldn't be able to maintain its widely accepted status, and you may be one of the group that needs the additional ego stroking (if employed outside your field of study).

That said, I hope your life never depends on a medical "professional" who's failed to maintain their certifications and continuing education, or worse yet... one who's had their certifications stripped.

First off, if you've spent most of your life in and around academia, then you should know that citing wiki as a reiable source is dubious at best. "Widely accepted" and "proper" can be, and often are, two very different things.

Second, I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree as I'm sure laws, regulations, and practices vary from state to state and field to field (mainly medical vs. others). A close family member who's worked in medicine for 30+ years recently dropped the medically related degree titles from her business cards since she's been promoted beyond a medical position in the Fortune 100 company that she's employed with. The family had this very same discussion over the holidays, and such action is quite common amongst those with higher education in the medical field. Sure there will always be egocentric individuals who cling to their titles no matter what; however, if one is not currently employed in in their field of expertise, then it's not proper for them to continue the use of titles such as "doctor"; it's merely ego stroking.

Specifically, when dealing with medicine, continued use of such titles implies that one has maintained their various certifications and the required continuing education. Such is often not the case when one has prolonged employment outside the medical field; however, renewing various certifications and continuing education is not strictly limited to the medical field, and continued use of such titles implies the same regardless.

Lucy? Is that you, or do you merely think he's "so fine he'd blow your mind"?

The only time one should be addressed by, and/or personally use such titles is while one is currently employed in the field of their degree. I'm not sure what field Mr. Garfield recieved his doctorate in, but it's highly unlikely that he's currently employed in it. 

Edit: I've discovered he earned his Ph.D. in combinatorial mathematics; however, he left the field professionally in 1994; so "Mr. Garfield" would be the proper way to address him.   

For me, the first deck that popped into my mind, which used a singleton TS, was Steve's old Vintage Tide deck.

Meandeck Tide Suggested by Stephen Menendian:

Maindeck:

Artifacts
1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mox Sapphire

Creatures
4 Cloud Of Faeries
4 Xantid Swarm

Enchantments
1 Fastbond
   
Instants
1 Ancestral Recall
4 Brainstorm
1 Echoing Truth
1 Frantic Search
4 High Tide
3 Meditate
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Research / Development
4 Snap

Sorceries
4 Ideas Unbound
4 Merchant Scroll
1 Mind's Desire
1 Time Spiral
1 Time Walk
1 Timetwister

Basic Lands
4 Island

Lands
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
4 Tropical Island

Dropping 3x Brainstorm, 3x Merchant Scroll, and making a few other tweaks may provide a somewhat decent shell to utilize some of the new unrestricted toys. The origional gameplan was to ramp up for a large Desire, then use R&D to bring in Tendrils, but you may be able to tweak it for something akin to a "Draw7s into Freeze" kill. 

Well, most of the 1ofs are restricted, and good enough for Mono Red to run regardless of tutoring power.

1x Wheel of Fortune
1x Black Lotus
1x Mox Ruby
1x Mana Crypt
1x Strip Mine
1x Sol Ring

Three more perform the same function; so it's more like "3x Counterspells".

1x Burnout
1x Red Elemental Blast
1x Pyroblast

After that, there's only a single "meta sloted" 'Spree in the maindeck to supplement the Shamans & Heretics.

I've gotta agree with gold eyes. Lim-Dul's Vault is one of my favorite "dig-deep" cards of all time. 2 life + 2 mana digs through over 1/4 of your remaining library; the fact that you can keep on going makes it insane.

WOW! I wasn't expecting to see this!

First, the complete randomness of restricting Ponder is frightening. I guess they set the prescident with the random (late) restriction of Gifts, and they're continuing the tradition. The knowledge that "No card is truly safe" could certainly bring instability for collectors.

Second, Duress/T'Seize just JUMPED in utility. No more being ability to consistantly hide key cards, on top, in response.

Does this bump Personal Tutor to being playable?...

Damn the eratta!!!
It appears that a "tap" cost has been added to the Oracle text. Hmmm, I wonder if that would fall under "power level eratta" (which may be revoked someday)? It certainly explains why Candelabra hardly ever gets played.

Oh well, back to the drawing board.

The Candelabra' intrigues me as well.
In theory, it should be fast enough since Workshop/City of Traitors + Candelabra = infinite mana (Ancient Tomb would be too painful )
Staff Of Domination could be an interesting draw engine for that combo. Draw & Play an entire Mud Deck, on the first turn, for a Ravager -> Fling? lol
Maybe a combo deck that Serum powder's into MWS/City like Ichorid does for Bazaar?

Then there's Tolarian Academy + Candelabra' + a "random artifact" = infinite mana.
Here, the first deck that jumps out at me is the Bomberman shell. You've already got Trinkets to fetch the Candelabra, and/or a "random artifact". Cunning Wish/Merchant Scroll -> Stroke of Genius FTW. The drawback is that, unlike MWS/City, Academy is restricted. Still, Candelabra' + Stroke' seems like an interesting backup win condition that wouldn't take up much space in the deck/sideboard.  Juan Rodriguez ran a Tolaria West in his 4th place list last year; it may help, or it may be a bit slow.

@ Mr. Type 4: Thanks, and it's good to see a few replies startin' to roll in.


I saw Mind Spring; however, I'm still a bit leary of draw X's (I havn't added my foily Read the Runes to my stack yet, nor have I even considered Treasure Trove). You bring up a good point in that it's not "target player"; so you can't use it to straight murder anyone. I might have to give this card another look.

Regarding Cream of the Crop, I agree. It's not so powerful that it paints a target on ya (you'll likely resolve it), but do I think that the added card selection, for fatty dense deck, could be quite helpful, and the bigger they are the deeper ya dig.

I think I'm just gonna have to test out Reveillark. I've tried to make Wizards a draftable class in my stack. Add in all of the other utility weenies, and it seems like this could give a boost to that strategy. Definitely more powerful for the "evoke doesn't count as your one spell" crowd.

Massive Discard Effects - I come from the same school (Massive Discard = "un-fun"); however, I've recently developed "the fear", lol. I havn't had a chance to play for awhile, and, since my last session, I've added quite a bit of "buyback" (Whispers, Evangelize, Spell Burst, Blast from the Past, Reiterate, etc.). To those with more experience; how has it worked out? Is buyback "on par", or ridiculously over-powered when one has infinite mana? Have you added/needed a greater counterspell density to overcome buyback's effect on a stack, or splashed some discard? I think the only discard/hand-removal that I'm currently running consists of Decree of Anni. and Minamo's Meddling, lol. I've yet to pick up a Dismal Failure.

Updates:

Redeem the Lost
Instant   Uncommon
Target creature you control gains protection from the color of your choice until end of turn. Clash with an opponent. If you win, return Redeem the Lost to its owner's hand.

Could see some play. Again, a clash card with possible recursion, and it's an instant.

Thanks for the clarification, ELD. I wasn't sure on the interaction with Cognivore.

How would Reveillark interact with Sutured Ghoul? His card text states "(A * on a card not in play is 0.)"; however, that seems to have been removed with Oracle text errata. Would it remember its p/t if it had been played and killed, and be 0/0 if it had been dredged/milled?

Reveillark does look interesting though. I know there's quite a few good utility weenies, in my stack, that may like to come back in tandem.

Updates:

Cream of the Crop 
Enchantment   Rare
Whenever a creature comes into play under your control, you may look at the top X cards of your library, where X is that creature's power. If you do, put one of those cards on top of your library and the rest on the bottom of your library in any order.

This could be a fairly powerful tutor effect for Type 4 Stack. Could be a bomb for an aggro drafter intent on dropping fatty after fatty.

***SPOILER ALERT***

Well, the spoilers are filling up and I'm scouting for a few new Type 4 notables.

So far, here's what I see that may make the cut in some stacks:

Graceful Reprieve 1w
Instant   Uncommon
When target creature is put into a graveyard this turn, return that card to play under its owner's control.

Instantly save one of your own from a wrath effect. Might be worth it.

Reveillark 4w
Creature - Elemental   Rare
Flying
When Reveillark leaves play, return up to two target creature cards with power 2 or less from your graveyard to play.
Evoke 5{W}
Illus. Jim Murray      4/3

Not sure on this one. If you play that evoke doesn't count towards your one spell per turn, then it could be decent to bring back Voidmages, Venser, Az. Guildmage, Clone, Phantom Nishoba, Plaguebearer, Necrotic Sliver, Duplicant, *snip*, etc. The "to play" clause is gravy.

Negate 1u
Instant   Common
Counter target noncreature spell.

A new counterspell that hits Artifacts, Enchantments, Instants, Sorceries, and Planeswalkers. If your list still runs Annul, this could easily replace it.

Research the Deep 1u
Sorcery   Uncommon
Draw a card. Clash with an opponent. If you win, return Research the Deep to its owner's hand.

Card draw that provides a bit of deck manipulation, and possible recursion built in. There are a lot of wacky casting costs, in Type 4, to try to abuse Clash with. Could be fun, especially if you found Whispers of the Muse to be "too broken". Its Sorcery status might hold it back though (Sharpie errata anyone? ).

Mind Shatter xbb
Sorcery   Rare
Target player discards X cards at random.

For those that run Mind Twist, here's a second version that'll be available in asian foil. lol
I see myself drawn towards discard the more I've added buyback cards to my stack. What's the consensus regarding discard in Type 4? I've seen a few lists running Scandalmonger...

Earwig Squad 3bb
Creature - Goblin Rogue   Rare
Prowl 2{B}
When Earwig Squad comes into play, if its prowl cost was paid, search target opponent's library for three cards and remove them from the game. Then that player shuffles his or her library.
      5/3

A Cap and a threat makes for an extremely tempting card; however, Blast from the Past & SGC probably aren't enough to make the prowl cost very likely. Might be more viable in a Cube where Gobs can be drafted.

Noggin Whack 2bb
Tribal Sorcery - Rogue   Uncommon
Prowl 1{B} (You may play this card for its prowl cost if you dealt combat damage to a player this turn with a Rogue.)
Target player reveals three cards from his or her hand. Choose two of them. That player discards those cards.

 Regardeless, Noggin Whack doesn't have the raw power of Brainscrew or Mind Twist.

Violet Pall 4b
Tribal Instant - Faerie   Common
Destroy target nonblack creature.
Put a 1/1 black Faerie Rogue creature token with flying into play.

A terror that can hit artifact creatures, and give you a 1/1 Flying Faerie! What's not to love? (Super Secret Tech: Immune to Faerie Trickery!!!)

Obsidian Battle-Axe 3
Tribal Artifact - Warrior Equipment   Uncommon
Equipped creature gets +2/+1 and has haste.
Whenever a Warrior creature comes into play, you may attach Obsidian Battle-Axe to it.
Equip 3

Cloak and Dagger 2
Tribal Artifact - Rogue Equipment   Uncommon
Equipped creature gets +2/+0 and has shroud.
Whenever a Rogue creature comes into play, you may attach Cloak and Dagger to it.
Equip 3

These two could be interesting. Shroud & Haste are valuable atributes, and the attack boosts are nice; however, Lightning Greaves already grants Shroud & Haste with one card.

Diviner's Wand 3
Tribal Artifact - Wizard Equipment   Uncommon
Equipped creature has "Whenever you draw a card, this creature gets +1/+1 and gains flying until end of turn" and "4: Draw a card."
Whenever a Wizard creature comes into play, you may attach Diviner's Wand to it.
Equip 3

So far it's the "most broken" card of the set (for Type 4). Many/most stacks ban fire breathing abilities outright, and this one draws you cards while it's doing its thing. An interesting limit (your Library), but I'm guessing this may be too much for many stacks to handle.

From what's been spoiled, it looks like slim pickins for Type 4 stacks. As of this posting the set is only 2/3rds spoiled; so lets hope there's a few more Type 4 bombs yet to come.



Edit: "Brainscrew" => "Mind Shatter"
Removed: "Cognivore ("*" is less than 2 while in the yard)"

Well, it's been almost two months of testing now. Are all of the new additions panning out as well as planned? Any late bloomers, or surprising let downs to report back?

Sidenote: I think I was just as excited cracking a foil Guile as I was when I cracked my first Thoughtseize. :lol:

There's a new, red, "fatty" that probably deserves a spot too.

Hamletback Goliath     

Creature - Giant Warrior
Whenever another creature comes into play, you may put X +1/+1 counters on Hamletback Goliath, where X is that creature's power.
6/6

I love me some good ol' red cards!, and this one could become a MONSTER really quickly!

Wow! That does look like a fun list! Nice design Mr. Yarrington. :thumbsup:

That said, a little piece of me dies whenever I see a red deck, like TMWA, that no longer contains any basic mountains. 

Thanks for the response. So far we've stuck with Rochester drafting; it can be almost as fun as the games themselves, and it adds a bit of strategical value to cards like Acquire. I would like to bump up the numbers though (high enough to accommodate 4-5 players). I've actually got a growing stack of cards that I'd like to add as soon as I pick up some more matching sleeves.

Thanks again,
RM

Well, here's my current stack...

Artifacts/Art. Creatures
Altar of Shadows
Bosh, Iron Golem
Citanul Flute
Door to Nothingness
Draco
Duplicant
Grinning Totem
Masticore
Mindslaver
Panacea
Platinum Angel
Quicksilver Amulet
Soul Foundry
Tatsumasa, the Dragon's Fang
Thought Dissector

Black
Barter in Blood
Chainer, Dementia Master
Cremate
Cruel Revival
Dawn of the Dead
Decree of Pain
Enslave
Grim Harvest
Headstone
Phage the Untouchable
Plaguebearer
Skinthinner
Smokespew Invoker
Spirit of the Night
Sudden Death
Vigor Mortis
Visara the Dreadful

Blue
Acquire
Aeon Chronicler
Arcane Denial
Arcanis the Omnipotent
Assert Authority
Aven Fateshaper
Blatant Thievery
Bringer of the Blue Dawn
Cognivore
Confiscate
Controvert
Counterspell
Desertion
Discombobulate
Dissipate
Dominate
Evacuation
Exclude
Fatespinner
Fervent Denial
Future Sight
Hoverguard Sweepers
Induce Paranoia
Interdict
Last Word
Minamo's Meddling
Muddle the Mixture
Rewind
Riptide Shapeshifter
Stifle
Stormscape Battlemage
Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
Time Stop
Venser, Shaper Savant
Vex
Voidmage Apprentice
Voidmage Husher
Voidmage Prodigy
Willbender

Green
Arashi, the Sky Asunder
Desert Twister
Gigapede
Goliath Spider
Hunting Pack
Krosan Cloudscraper
Krosan Grip
Nantuko Vigilante
Night Soil
Penumbra Wurm
Plated Slagwurm
Root Elemental
Silklash Spider
Silvos, Rogue Elemental
Survival of the Fittest
Symbiotic Wurm
Timbermare

Red
Bash to Bits
Bogardan Hellkite
Decree of Annihilation
Desolation Giant
Dwarven Catapult
Fissure
Flash Conscription
Flowstone Slide
Furnace Dragon
Grab the Reins
Heat Ray
Imperial Hellkite
Inferno
Insurrection
Kaboom!
Myojin of the Infinite Rage
Obliterate
Riddle of Lightning
Rorix Bladewing
Shunt
Starstorm
Word of Seizing

White
Boros Fury-Shield
Chastise
Dismantling Blow
Eternal Dragon
Festival of the Guildpact
Final Judgment
Glarecaster
Jareth, Leonine Titan
Kirtar's Wrath
Orim's Thunder
Ray of Distortion
Rout
Second Thoughts
Seht's Tiger
Soulscour
Stonecloaker
Sunscape Battlemage
Swords to Plowshares
Wrath of God

Multi/Guild/Split
Artifact Mutation
Azorius Guildmage
Dromar's Charm
Garza Zol, Plague Queen
Goblin Flectomancer
Izzet Chronarch
Necrotic Sliver
Order/Chaos
Pernicious Deed
Phantom Nishoba
Putrefy
Spiritmonger
Spite/Malice
Teneb, the Harvester
Terminate
Trial/Error
Tsabo Tavoc
Vampiric Dragon
Vindicate

Land
Kor haven
Maze of Ith
Winding Canyons

As it stands; I'm currently sitting at 151 cards. It seems to run alright with three players, but how many cards would those of you who follow the format recommend?

Edit: July 10, 2007, updated list:
- Oversold Cemetery
- Hunted Lammasu ~ Diplomatic spells/creatures can be fun (i.e. Vex, Arcane Denial, etc.), but I wanted more utility. 
+ Grim Harvest
+ Visara the Dreadful

Edit: September 04, 2007
- Mourner's Shield
- Oblivion Stone
- Plague Boiler
- Shield of the Ages
- Betrayal of Flesh
- Dark Banishing
- Diabolic Edict
- Promise of Power
- Scion of Darkness
- Breakthrough
- Control Magic
- Flash of Insight
- Pulse of the Grid
- Reweave
- Spell Blast
- Temporal Adept
- Tidal Kraken
- Bringer of the Green Dawn
- Altar's Light
- Crowd Favorites
- Restrain
- Solar Tide
- Sunscour
+ Decree of Pain
+ Enslave
+ Sudden Death
+ Aeon Chronicler
+ Bringer of the Blue Dawn
+ Desertion
+ Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
+ Krosan Grip
+ Timbermare
+ Flash Conscription
+ Flowstone Slide
+ Myojin of the Infinite Rage
+ Riddle of Lightning
+ Boros Fury-Shield
+ Dismantling Blow
+ Final Judgment
+ Rout
+ Seht's Tiger
+ Stonecloaker
+ Swords to Plowshares
+ Garza Zol, Plague Queen
+ Necrotic Sliver
+ Teneb, the Harvester

Edit: September 10, 2007
- Cancel
- Havoc Demon
+ Time Stop
+ Venser, Shaper Savant

Depending on your meta; Salvagers/Bomberman builds still run the 'Drain, and many feel that the deck is competative. It took the top 3 spots at the recent Myriad Games tourny on 5/26.

Nice job Chad.

I had a feeling (as soon as it was confirmed) that the Magus could be a strong contender. I even recall mentioning it in this thread on 4/15.

Now we'll just have to see if 'The Mountains' can handle the recent unrestriction of Gush!

I'd have to agree on the cat.

What's really got me wondering is Magus of the Moon. Is a 2/2 Blood Moon a feasible/worthwhile choice for TMWA?

Quote myself from scg:

Ahhh, the age old rehashed proxy debate.I've heard the purist/elitist "we have power/get a job if you want to play" arguments  .
As well as the "real people have real lives with real bills and power is not feasible"  , but the issue has evolved beyond both. Realistically, the print runs on power were quite limited, and, for the format to grow, here AND abroad, proxies are a necessary evil (barring reprints).

As a relatively new player to type one even I realize that 15 is ridiculous and 10 can be rough for certain decks, but there are MANY fun and competitive decks that can be built 10 proxy for little more than the price of a type 2 deck (oath,fcg,tps,fish.....and more)and the cards don't rotate so the values tend to hold or rise on the goodies you DO NEED to get so they are good investments.

10 is generous and wonderful,thank you scg!!!!!

And now, the devils advocate:

P8+4=12 the magic number!!!!!!

Weenie aggro and ritual combo aside(10 proxy is more than enough for them  ), there are three main backbones in vintage,Workshop, Drain, and Bazaar,and 10 proxy is restrictive to those on a budget trying to play any of them. With access to p8 and a playset of one of the above backbones as proxies 9-12 all serious players are included at a reasonable cost comparable to serious type 2 players.And again, the cards DON'T rotate so your goods STAY good. Past these, all you'd really need are things you'd have to invest in for Legacy anyways(f.o.w., duals,etc.).

In conclusion, while 10 proxy is generous, 12 is ideal. It IS still a "collectable" card game and if you can't build it with P8+a backbone playset you're playing the wrong game or having trouble "thinking outside the net.dec box"

End quote.

And now a few extra thoughts,

I find issue with people claiming the supply of p9 is "constant" when in fact it is falling.These cards are over a decade out of print. In the last decade, between cards being played to "unplayable" condition, "kids" loosing them, houses flooded or burned with collections lost, the weak dollar vs. euro (so cards are ebay'd overseas), etc. supply is falling not constant. Early sets were not even printed overseas so for the format to grow WORLDWIDE proxies are a necessary evil for growth.

10 is great, 12 is ideal. Decks running twister (tps) don't "need" 12 so P8+4=12, 12 should be the cap. If one looks at the restricted list (p9 aside) the vast majority are $5-$15 per card, hardly prohibitive to a serious gamer, and these are arguably the "best" cards in the game. Past this, access to P8+a backbone would open the field so that 25% to 50% of decks would not have to be budget fish or some variant.