have you tested annul at all instead of spell snare? I don't really get Spell Snare's purpose...

Oh my goodness I am so excited about this errata! Mask nought here I come!

I quite agree. In a recent local tournament consisting of 4 rounds of swiss and maybe 15 players. A guy, who is widely considered to be an average-at-best player, won every round 2-0 with Hulk flash. In addition. At a recent 30-man mox tournament last weekend, 2 Flash decks entered, both went undefeated in 5 rounds of swiss, one o f them split for first, and one was in the top 4. The player who was in the top 4 had the deck handed to him that day, with no previous testing and no experience with the deck whatsoever. The guy didnt even know how to use body snatcher in case you draw a combo piece. I recall a top 4 match of Bomberman vs. Flash. Game one bomberman had no chance, getting killed turn 2 I believe. Game 2 the Bomberman player drew into a broken hand with library that was good against any deck but Flash. But because it had no Counter backup, he could not keep. He ended up mulling down to five and losing. That is one way that I think flash badly distorts the metagame, forcing decks to mulligan hands that would be good, but they simply cannot risk to keep vs. Flash.
No other deck can get a hand like.

Flash
Protean Hulk
Lotus
Land
Pact of Negation
Pact of Negation
Merchant Scroll

Other decks can have turn one kills, but having a turn one kill+Triple or even double counter backup was completely unheard of until Flash. The fact that a hand like this even has potential to exist shows the total brokenness of Flash. Even with tons of hate being sent against it-- Almost every player in the tourney was running leylines in their sideboard. 2 Flash decks still went undefeated in the swiss.

Steve, you said you would answer questions about the sideboard in the forums, so here goes.
Why is Yixlid Jailer in this deck over Leyline of the Void?

Haha sorry about the lack of specificity there. I think my main problem with it was the tax on the mana base, and it really just didnt feel worth going to all that trouble, making the mana base much more vulnerable, when you could play hate and merchant scroll in its place. I'm really sorry I said that because
a) I don't want this to turn into a massive argument about whether Merchant Scroll or Night's Whisper should be run. And
b) My problems with Night's Whisper are probably not universal. I expect that my problems with it were because of my metagame (and lets please not discuss my metagame either) and playstyle, and not because, it, like, sucks ballz.


Okay, I'll get back on topic. Vegeta, I think you hit the head right on the nail with the 'don't use it unless you're going to die otherwise.' It is quite true that that is about the only time you would go for it. But still, I think that against all this new combo stuff coming into the format, it is going to become more and more important to be able to hold out for, an extra turn or so, allowing you time to set up your mindslaver, or play yawgwill, or whatever you need to do to win the game. Of 

I rather like the play, Merchant Scroll for TFK, which I noticed has not been much discussed on this forum. TFK is the best way to get fat artifacts out of your hand, and having merchant scroll reduces the odds that any artifact will be sitting around in there for long.
Kowal, while I greatly respect the Night's Whisper engine, I tested it and it was just not for me. I also disagree that Merchant scroll for Force of Will is a bad play. In many circumstances, it can be exactly what you need to last just long enough to win the game.

A very interesting build.... I have found however, that as much as lots of merchant scroll is very good, Control Slaver is and always will be a TFK-based deck. Having 4 TFK allows you to chain draws together so much easier than a merchant scroll. I wouldn't play a CS deck with less than 4 TFK (unless it was Dry Slaver, but that is different). That said, with the enormous amounts of speed currently in the format, a 4 TFK, 3 Merchant Scroll engine may be warranted, forgoeing probably Fact or Fiction for the 3rd Scroll. Also, why no Crucible maindeck?

Another thing I would like to bring up is a sideboard removal card. Currently I have 2 FTKs in my sideboard, but with the addition of GAT (and those crazy Dryads) to our format, I think that FTK becomes a much weaker choice, with its inability to kill dryads after they get to 5 toughness. I am thinking alon the lines of threads of disloyalty, but that option is not extremely strong against fish, and it cant hit psychatog.... Any suggestions?

The thing about Slaver is it has usually 3-5 slots to hate out the rest of the format.  While Slaver may be a bit to slow, I think that perhaps with the addition of 2-3 merchant scroll, and also a strip mine+crucuible combination (I know Rich Shay said it was too slow, but that really hasn't been my experience) it can attain enough countermagic to catch up with all the insanely speedy decks out there right now.  I am running 2 Merchant Scroll in my current build, and I went 2-0 in my last match vs. Flash. It is also the only Mana Drain deck in the format right now, (with the exception of Bomberman, which isn't really a true Mana Drain deck) so I think that it definitely has a niche.

In a few days we are going to see an enormous change in the state of vintage. many things are being discussed on this forum but there is one topic that I think should be discussed more. Control Slaver. I just have a few questions for discussion.

Will it stick around? Will it be able to remain a top-tier deck?
What new hate cards should be looked at for Flash and GAT?
Should it incorporate Street Wraith?

Anything else pertaining to CS is welcome here! Discuss!

Flash is a really really good deck. I mean, so good that wizards might have to restrict flash. what do you guys think? Will wizards have to restrict flash?

PLAY RED FOR ANGER! that will speed this deck up alot.

Krosan Reclamation:

Card type: Instant

Casting cost: 1

Card text: Target player shuffles up to two target cards
from his or her graveyard into his or her library.
Flashback 1G (You may play this card from your graveyard for its flashback cost.
Then remove it from the game.)

try putting regrowth and recoup into your library..and then you get yawgwill automatically.. that costs seven mana to combo out though..... maybe if you puta cantrip there instead.... peek even might be nice.

you need tons of accelerants... playing with chrome mox and mox diamond and might not be two bad lotus petal and mana vault MUST be added in.

the atog rout is completely unnecessary......... try focusing the deck in more on one thing

xantid swarms are for the sideboard... for disrupiton I'd probably just go 4 duress....

This deck shows some potential but I worry that it is just not fast enough in todays metagame... it needs TONS of mana to operate.... cabal rituals perhaps...

hmmm I have to admit I dont really like this decklist. It just has too many cards that will be totaly dead in the opening hand. The way I am hoping my deck to play is to control the board and not require to give the Psychatog flying....

I have force spike in their to stop the early stuff, and I don't think condescend, although all around a better card, will do the trick.


forgive me if I'm wrong here but I believe that peasan tis made up of a predominantly creature meta?

I have to admit I have never tested this deck so I really can't know for sure how this deck plays. I would like it to go perhaps Control-Combo but I really don't know. I would like to note that although every time you dredge an imp you do give it +2/+2 (well actually +2.5/+2.5) But you are forgetting that if I don't dredge then I get a card, which gives the atog +1.5+1.5, so really each time I dredge a stinkeweed I am really only giving the Psychatog +1/+1. It is tough to say in this deck whether it is better to have one extra card in hand or 5 extra in the graveyard. I think I'll probably try adding just one for now.


EDIT: I was just looking at my decklist... and it seems to have tons of graveyard synergy, but most of the engines to drop cards into the graveyard have been cut! Merchant scroll seems kinda like the odd card out, so I think I'll try cutting those and bring the stinkweed count up to 4

that actually sounds like it might be worth a shot. I'll cut an edict for one.

I'll look at these in the brainstorm slot, seems like they probably have alot better synergy with the deck.


thanks alot, I thiink I'll try all of these! EDIT: do you think 3 gush or 4 gush.... 3 gush might slow the deck down to much early game but with 4 gush I can chain together the nuts....

I thought it would be fun to build a peasant psychatog deck. I used extended Psychatog mainly as a reference, but the engine of those decks is all rares so I am still looking for a way to sort of replicate that. This deck is completely untested....

Original Decklist
Engine
4 Mental Note
4 Tolarian Winds
4 Deep Analysis
4 Brainstorm
Disruption
4 Counterspell
4 Force Spike
1 Chain of Vapor
2 Repeal
Removal
4 Diabolic Edict
1 Massacre
Kill
4 Psychatog
Land
4 Lonely Sandbar
4 Barren Moor
10 Island
6 Swamp

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Current Decklist
Engine
3/4 Gush
4/3 Nightscape Familiar
4 Deep Analysis
4 Accumulated Knowledge
2 Fact or Fiction
Disruption
4 Counterspell
4 Force Spike
Removal
4 Aether Burst
3 Stinkweed Imp
Kill
3 Psychatog
2 Unearth
Land
4 Lonely Sandbar
4 Barren Moor
9 Island
6 Swamp

Any suggestions would be great!

I partially agree with your first point. Chain of Vapor should go over truth, However I would like to disagree with putting hurkyl's in the maindeck. Against anything but stax it is just another dead card clogging up my hand. I think my game against stax is good enough so that I can wait til game two.
On your other point, I tested 3-ofs for both gifts and scroll, and bumped them back to 4-ofs, each for a different reason.
Merchant Scroll- I just loved playing with this card. It gives the deck so much flexibility. Think your opponent has a bomb or playing against combo? grab FoW or Mana Drain. Playing against Stax? Grab a rebuild. Battling for card advantage? Grab Ancestral. It really just helped the deck flow and work 10 times better.
Gifts Ungiven- The thing that I really like about this deck is that it can sit there for like ten turns winning small counter wars just controlling the game... and then BOOM eot gifts and gg. The deck can just WIN whenever it feels like it. When you play 4 gifts, it almost guarantees that you will have it when you need it. and if you get 2 gifts early on, just pitch one to force of will or shuffle it back in to your library. 4 gifts is a neccessity.


ummm actually I beat pitchLong on a fairly consistent basis...



I've grouped these together because they seem to be saying the same thing. Ok I see your point that there are some spells you can't counter with REB, but they aren't your only counters for god's sake. Let me give you a scenario that I guarantee is more likely than the one you showed above

Them- Bargain
Me- Mana Drain
Them- FoW
Me- REB
Them- ....mana drain resolves

you see? REB, like misdirection, is not there to counter their bombs, but to win your counter wars. It is given to side in 3.


This is a highly metagamed, and undiverse board. Stephen menendian has written at length about the importance of keeping a diverse sideboard. 3 Rack and Ruin is almost ok when you are playing a stax-only environment, but even then, it is better to find other cards that hit stax from differnet angles.



I am mortally afraid of fish, with new sauce like SS and Jotun Grunt around and about. I am devoting all the sideboard help i can get!



RnR is good against Stax, and only stax. Playing 1 is as far as I'll go. I admit that the random T Crypt is wierd, but it just randomly wins me so many games. Same with needle, needle is such a house against stuf like CS and Stax. You are also forgetting that I have tutors


My answer is that it wins me the game against Combo. Cutting them off from the graveyard is amazing. It forces them to shoot straight through my counters and lose. There is no dragon in my meta.

thx for the help and advice!

I know I am amazing against them, but it still is important to have a viable sideboard plan. Why not take out misD instead of mana drain. Also, are you sure to sideboard in REB? does PitchLong have enough Blue to make it viable?

I am a fairly new gifts player and I don't know how to sidebaord against PitchLong. I think I had a fairly viable Sideboard plan against GrimLong but now PitchLong with it's annoying force of will's and MisDs are just screwing me up. My list looks like this:

Artifact Acceleration(10)
5 Moxen
1 Mana Vault
1 Mana Crypt
3 SoLoRing

Land(15)
5 Island
2 Underground Sea
2 Volcanic Island
5 Fetchland
1 Tolarian Academy

Draw/Tutor Engine(16)
4 Brainstorm
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Mystical Tutor
4 Merchant Scroll
4 Gifts Ungiven
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Demonic Tutor

Disruption(10)
4 Mana Drain
4 Force of Will
2 Misdirection

Miscellaneous(3)
1 Rebuild
1 Echoing Truth
1 Random Utility Slot

The Combo(6)
1 Time Walk
1 Tinker
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Burning Wish
1 Recoup
1 Darksteel Colossus

Sideboard(15)
1 Pyroclasm
1 Rolling Earthquake
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Tormod's Crypt
4 Chalice of the Void
3 REB
1 Pithing Needle
1 Darkblast
1 Rack and Ruin
1 Hurkyl's Recall

General advice on the sideboard, Ideas for Sideboarding against PitchLong, and ideas for the Random utility slot are all welcome.

I don't think mystical tutor is a very good choice in this deck. The best thing you can Tutor for is Ancestral recall, and that's only a plus one card advantage.... seems very suboptimal to me.

If you couldn't find it and it has cumulative upkeep, then that probably means it's from coldsnap.

NO! NOT ANOTHER BEN KOSSMAN! NOBODY ELSE POST! LET IT DIIIIIIEEEEE!

I would play MEANDECK GIFTS with duress moved in for MisD.... But right now It has like 2 billion proxies and in any case I can't miss school to go to some giant tournament.

And mana drain isn't even considered to be strong by some serious magic players, as it is to easy to play around and to clunky (Randy Bhueler). Put simply, voidslime is clunkier than the clunkiest counter playable in type 1 (mana drain) and why would you want to pay that one extra mana for voidslime, when you could play mana drain, which will likely win you the game next turn?

This is the sort of card I would have played when I was 5. 4 damage a turn is NOT worth a 2 in 1 investment

Mishra's isn't here, but consider dark ritual to be a more flexible, less static version of workshop. It only hangs around one turn, but it allows the same first turn brokenness (braids or other) and can be used to play solutions as well, something workshops cannot do.

You are correct, however, about the tutors.

I think this card is very good anti-storm combo. it mutilates their draw 7's and shuts down their engine. And leaves them with, really only one draw card, necropotence, which you can easily counter it with the 2:1 card advantage you now have. Though perhaps not a maindeck card, I can certainly see this being in many sideboards.

Efreets die when they block ichorids. They block them all right, but then your opponent (if he has brains) will have dredged up a darkblast and your Efreet will die.

The decklists look excellent except the Flying Men. The thing about flying men is although they have evasion, having only a ninja in the deck to make use of that is not going to be enough for them to really be effective. You need something that has really good synergy with them like jittles or curiosity. Without those you really just have 4 1-a-turn beatsticks that really aren't going to have much effect on the game.

I am afraid that I have no idea who Brian Finch is, and I have never seen his decklist. You'll have to give me a link or something.

Ok, so i've been consistently using bad examples, but remember, they're examples, of course, you're right that no one would attack with welders. Unless, of course, Welder was the only win condition in the deck. Which, believe it or not, I have seen before in any case, the point i was trying to make is that it is better to play your creatures as uncounterable instants for free, rather than hardcast them on your turn.

1) Don't double post. The edit button is there for a reason.
2) The list is illegal because you list "4 Chalice of the Void" in two different sections. From the mention of Aether Vial in the first post, it's pretty clear that one of those should list the Vials, but Harlequin and pyr0ma5ta have both brought this up, and you still haven't fixed the decklist.

-Jacob

ah, I see that now, I apologize for my mistake

#1 - You have to think more about your stax matchup.  No Kataki, No Energy Flux, No Sacrede Ground?  You've got a few anulls, and more tormod's crypts that you can shake a stick at.  lastly you only have 3 StPlow to actually stop welder... wich you probably want to save for RFGing large artifact creatures like karn and trike.


Fortunately, my metagame has merely 1 stax deck, and no other welder archetypes, so I'm not to worried about preparing for it. I may sometime enter a tournament with this deck, in which case this feedback is highly applicable and I thank you for it.

#2 - I really do not see aether vial on your decklist... So ... whats the deal?  I personally think its a terrible card for type 1.  Its a short term loss of tempo for a longer term gain in tempo... and its a liability.  It makes opening hands either amazing to terrible.  for example: Waste, Mishra, Aether Vial, Stormscape, Voidmage, Meddling mage, Brainstorm.  Great hand, if your opponent doesn't counter/destroy/deactivate your vial, If they do - you basically loose.

I most certainly do not lose when a vial gets countered, with the slow, control oriented decks that make up my metagame I do not need to worry about the loss of tempo from a first turn vial. And if it gets in play, then thats game against almost any deck.

#3 - Color heavy deck with roughly a third colorless lands.  I would highly suggest 1 mishra -> 1 Basic

Let me say just this-- the mana base works

#4 - Brainstorm seems ill-fit in fish.  Brainstorm at times is an insane card, but alot of times it just lets you look at 3 cards that you don't need and then know you're doomed for 2 turns.  5 Shuffle effects is not enough.  Fish generally cannot abuse Brainstorm without 6 fetchs + mystical + Enlightened tutor .. wich are rather unessisary.  Curiosity is a beter fit for a one drop.


You could be right. I just recently added in brainstorm and have not tested it to its fullest extent. I will consider putting some anti-aggro into this slot.

#5 - You have no evasion creatures, and no anti-aggro plan.  Ninja is only so good, when all your creatures are groundlings.  Flying men, Grayscale Gharzilla, Cloud of Faries, or even the lowly Manta Riders give you hope against other aggro decks.  Then you need to board in Jite's or Old Men of the Sea to seal the deal against aggro.   Jite in the hands of flying men - insanity - they rain down chaos like it was thier job.  Also an evasion creature wielding Curiosity is far better than a one-shot brainstorm with no shuffle effect.

As stated above, I will likely take one of your suggestions here. I especially like the Flying Men.

#6 - Four swords to plow ... every deck with the possible acception of some combo decks run at LEAST dark steel colosus.  It one for ones welders with little consiquence, strips the only win conditions in oath, and sends DSC out to tend to the pastures.  Arguably the best card in UW fish.

Yes, I have long considered putting in a fourth sword, but against some decks a fourth is simply redundant. I will consider sideboarding it.

#7 - Extract > Tormod's crypt.  If you work on your stax matchup then Extract starts to shine as a superior answer to almost every deck that you would want tormod's in for.  The only exception is Ichorid.  But other than that, Gifts, Storm, and Dragon ... only run 2-3 win conditons.  So with any luck the fishies will so the game long enough to Extract twice.  Null Rod is your ultimate silver bullet for Gifts and combo, and tormod's crypt + Null rod = Null Rod.  Even if you only Extract one of three winconditions, you may not have locked them out from winning, but you have bought yourself several turns.  Add in meddling mages nameing other wins, and you've got yourself plenty of time to swing for 20.  Lastly, an even BETTER use of extract is when you have mages nameing win conditions and you extract thier only bounce spell, they usually concede to that.  Another route (esp if its storm with 3-4 tendrils in deck) is to just pull broken cards like Yawgmoth's will.  In conclusion: Null Rod + Tormod's crypt = bad synergy,  Extract + Meddling mage = Good synergy.

This is difficult because right now like 25% of the decks in my metagame are Ichorid, but then there are also quite a few that extract would be perfect against.... You are definetly right about that stuff... so how about an SB that looks something like this... You'll notice I added in Umezawa's from earlier suggestions as well... They don't seem to fit the main deck given the lack of aggro in my metagame. But i believe they will be an excellent SB option.

3 Annul
3 Extract
2 Tormod's Crypt
3 Null Rod
3 Umezawa's Jittle
1 Swords to Plowshares

I have also given the main portion a slight modification as per your suggestions.
-4 Brainstorm
+4 Flying Men or Cloud of Faeries

I really like having the Voidmage+Stormscape Synergy, However I am now considering removing them, or perhaps just the mages, for Curiosity and/or Umezawa's Jittle.