Hi!

You might want to have a look at this topic:

http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=27005.0

This deck is a Combo-Deck, which can easily be played on a budget other than Death Long.
I know, it plays out different, but might be worth a look...it's lots of fun playing and does really well.

Hope I could help you a little...

Hmm....

There are only 9 lands that could be changed into a Fetch-Dual manabase:

4 Gemstone Mine
4 City of Brass
1 Island

I could do something like:

2 Polluted Delta
1 Underground Sea
3 Tropical Island
1 Tundra
2 Flooded Strand

But that seems much more fragil to me than the rainbow base...I wouldn't even have a standartland anymore...

Concerning the metagame...

This deck was/is made for a 32 players final tournament....

...and I guess the field will be something like:

~10x Fish
~4x Long/Pitch
~7x Staxx
~3x Gifts
~3x Oath
~3x Mask


That's just what I expect there to be...

Concerning the manabase - do you really think it would be better to go with Fetchlands and Duals when playing four colored?

lmk...

Hey Guys,
I now tinkered around with the deck a bit and recently came up with a deck that looks....quite different...

So here is my new list:

1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
4 Brainstorm
2 Gifts Ungiven
1 Cunning Wish
1 Tinker
1 Echoing Truth
-11-

1 Fastbond
4 Exploration
1 Recollect
1 Living Wish
1 Crop Rotation
1 Regrowth
-9-

1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Argivian Find
-2-

1 Sickening Dreams
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
-3-

4 Horn of Greed
4 Defense Grid
3 Crucible of Worlds
-11-

1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Vault
-7-

1 Oboro, Palace in the Clouds
1 Bazaar of Bagdad
1 Cephalid Colliseum
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Island
1 Tolarian Academy
4 City of Brass
4 Gemstone Mine
3 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
-18-


This is the best Combo-style Turboland.dec I built all day.
I played it on MWS and if you manage to get a Defense Grid out on turn 1 (which is quite easy), you can easily combo off without interruptions. Of course opposing Combo-Decks are a problem, but if you manage to hold them off long enough or are fast enough I guess you can win even that one (guess this is where the Sideboard is important)
I don't know if Defense Grid is better than...lets say FoW or Drains...but actually they do quite good - what I really like about them is: you get em out and you kind of don't have to care anymore. I mean it makes it easier to cast bombs, such as Fastbond, off your hand, cause you got that Defense Grid out there. And with Wastelands and Strip Mine as backup...that solves lots of problems quite easily.

For the sideboard I'd come up with something like this:

1 Darkblast
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Ray of Revelation
1 Argivian Find
1 Barbarian Ring
3 Trygon Predator
1 Sickening Dreams
1 Stroke of Genius
3 Sphere of Resistance
1 Sundering Titan


I also should have mentioned that I won't be able to borrow a Lotus and a Twister, so I didn't include those in my list. Perhapes I manage to get a Mishra's Workshop then that one might be included.

I think I don't have to explain much of the cards right here, cause most should be obvious by now...
but...

I included that single Recollect, since sometimes you get to make Gifts piles and then it makes it much easier for you to get what you want.
I included Crop Rotation, since it helped me all day long getting the land I specifically needed...
I came up with Defense Grid, since it's a card which people don't expect...and fits my game plan quite good...

So let me hear what you guys think about it...

Rittler

P.S.: I know that there are 61 cards in my deck...just don't want to take any of them out...

I'm asking myself what u would replace the Time Twister with, if u didn't own one...cause this decks seems really interesting to me, but I couldn't get a Time Twister for a tourney next week. Also I ask myself if this might be better than the deck in the "Let's do the Time Warp again"-Thread in a field of Fish, Staxx, Gifts and Long.

Pls let me know what u think...

Thanks...

Do you guys think this could stand a chance in a 32 players tourney with most of the field beeing Fish, Staxx, Gifts and Long-Variants?
I ask this, cause I think the deck looks very interesting and I would really enjoy playing it, but for this tournament I'd really want to play something competitive.
A thing I think I also have to add is - I won't get a Lotus for that tourney, so I would substitute it with Mana Crypt and I would substitute one Glacial Chasm with Bazaar of Bagdad, also I think I'd add Hollistic Wisdom and Tinker-->DSC as an alternative win condition - just don't know what to take out yet.

So I really appreciate your work on the deck, as I think it's something different and I really like the different kind of decks...

Finally I'd like to add some experiences I had with a deck very similar to this one...
It played Oath + Battlefield Scourger to win with infinite Time Walk or the Fastbond route...
I played it only one time at a tournament of around 50 people and went 6th...it was quite OK but sucked against Long, since those were much faster, also it had some trouble with fast Aggro...

Let me know your thoughts...

Thanks

Rittler

I can't add Drains, since I don't own any and the guy who borrows me the Power sold his Drains recently...

Yawgmoth's Will might definately be worth the inclusion and Merchant Scrolls might also be worth testing, but what shall I take out for those? In my opinion Shadow of Doubt is the weakest card in the deck because of it's castingcost, but I might be wrong...

What would you take out for those cards?

After some weaks of testing I now have to say that I think that the black variant is much faster then the one with white. The Ancestral + Grunt + Merchant Scroll Engine is weak against Confidant's consistant draw, because it absolutely isn't consitant. You rarely get all three parts on the table...
Also Tog provides a decent clock, since you can easily mangage to get Tog lethal by the turns 3-5. I also have to say that I am now able to borrow all the power except Lotus and so my current list changed to the following:

4x Quirion Dryad
4x Dark Confidant
2x Psychatog
1x Darksteel Colossus

1x Tinker
1x Ancestral Recall
1x Time Walk
1x Gush
1x Mystical Tutor
1x Vampiric Tutor
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Wipe Away

4x Force of Will
4x Daze
3x Stifle
3x Shadow of Doubt
2x Misdirection
4x Brainstorm

5x Moxen
3x Polluted Delta
3x Flooded Strand
2x Island
1x Bayou
1x Strip Mine
3x Underground Sea
3x Tropical Island


The lack of Swords to Plowshares is a problem, but it might be solved by sideboarding Diabolic Edict. Also I don't know if I should change the counter configuration into something that contains some copys of Duress, since it's such a strong card. Also I really want to fit in a Regrowth since playing Time Walk or Ancestral two times a game is fun ^^

I did some testing with Erayo in the white built but it nearly always came too late to have any greater effect on the game - I might test it in the black variant.

Concerning the testing - the Deck did fairly well against most of the field, but fish is hard. Sideboarding Diabolic Edict and going the Man-Plan helps a lot. Against Staxx you have to counter their early threads, lay down a Dryad or even better a Tog and ride home for the win. Combo is like it always was - if he has the perfect hand he'll win anyway, but if he doesn't have it you're most likely to win, since you got loads of disruption against them (Shadow of Doubt, FoW, Stifle, Daze, Misdirection,...)

So far, I'm still working on it and hope you'll help me finish this deck...

Well, since you are new to vintage, here a basic rule about Combos in Vintage:

A Combo is always crappy if it needs more than 2 cards and if those cards don't do well on their own...

If you now compare this rule with your Combo you'll see:

- Your combo consists of 4 cards
- Those 4 cards don't do good on their own


Don't misunderstand me, I don't want to scare you off Vintage, but I'm really sure that this combo will never ever be any good in any Vintage Deck. If you look at the most played and succesfull combo Decks you'll see, that every single card in the deck does well on it's own and it doesn't require lots of cards to hit the table at the same time to win.
This should just be a good advise, but keep on bringing new ideas and innovations to vintage...

Your version definately seems to be a nice built, but I'm wondering if the loss of black and with that the loss of Confidants and Tutors as Draw and Duress as a very strong control element, is worth the addition of white.
Surely Merchant Scroll + Ancestral Recall + Jötun Grunt seems to be a very lucrative way of getting cards, but it's also an expensive way. You need 3 Mana each time and a resolved Grunt. With Confidant you only invest 2 Mana and get an extra card each turn. That seems to be far more doable if you're missing the power - like I do. Next point is...I'm missing a Gush in your list...as well as I'm wondering if Sol Ring really is better than Mana Crypt...and I'm wondering if you really are able to support 4 Wastelands (as they're colorless manasources) in a 3 colored Grow built, since you almost always want colored mana on your table and with running such few lands as you do in Grow, I guess you don't want to draw into Wastelands most of the time. Surely they add a great control and stallelement to your list, but I guess they weaken your manabase far more than they help against your enemy. Concerning the manabase I also think that Life from the Loam is a card that should definately be considered since it helps so much stabalizing on your landcount - and with playing it one should definately include either Mongrel or Tog - and since we're playing Grow our first choice would be Tog - and now we're again at the point of the addition of black. And the biggest thing I have to critizize concerning your list - where the f**k is Brainstorm??? I think this should definately be an autoinclude in every blue based deck - especially in a deck like grow where u want lots of business spells....


I guess I will have to test this, since I also don't have enough Tundras and Meddling Mages to build it, and see if they're worth the investition...

Also I'm wondering if Rushing River does better than Whipe Away, of course it is able to bounce 2 permanents at once but you need counterbackup which you don't need if running Whipe Away.

Concerning your Sideboard...

Hail Storm seems to be a very nice card on itsself, but if you look at its casting cost you need to have GG avalible on the table and as it's a card against fish counterbackup. With Massacre you will probably be able to cast it for free (if running black) and got mana left on your side of the table for eventual counterbackup

Trygon Predator however is a definate include in my sideboard as well, I simply forgot about that card...it's absolutely insane against Staxx and Slaver...


Thanks so far

Mystical Tutor and Gush are two cards I forgot...they are definately in, I'll edit this in the decklist...

Also Misdirection seems to be better than Leak, so I'll edit this as well...

Shadow of Doubt however doesn't seem that good to me, of course it's a cantrip and it helps against opposing tutors or Tinkers and stuff, but it takes 2 Mana, which I actually don't want to leave open. However, if you can tell me, what I should take out for them I'll give em a try...

Stifle is something I thought about myself, but I didn't find room yet, so again, if you can tell me what to take out, I'll try em...

And I'm now searching for room for a Regrowth just in case I need my Whipe Away a second time, or a Tinker gets counterd or just to recur an Ancestral or whatever. What I want to say - I think it's a very versatile card in this deck and should definately be included.

I also now came up with a profesorical Sideboard which looks like this:

3x Massacre --> wreck Fish
3x Diabolic Edict --> wreck Oath
4x Null Rod --> Help against Staxx
1x Duress --> 4 Duress against Combo seems fine to me
2x Oxidize --> Help against Staxx
2x Pithing Needle --> Help against whatever (for example Wastelands, Bazars, Welders, Slaver,...what the heck...)

Thanks for your help so far, I'm looking forward to more posts and advises...

Hi!

First off, I know that most people think Grow can't be played without Moxen and Lotus, so please don't comment on that, cause I'm aware of it...

I built this deck today at university, so I didn't have a chance to test it yet. It was built for a 20 players T1 tournament, which I'm invited to, because of being in the top 20 players of a magic-cup this year. An this tournament I have the chance of winning around 300$, so I definately want to play something that does well against most of the field...
Coming to the field, I have to discribe it...
I think the most played decks will be Staxx, Gifts and Fish but there might be one or two Oaths. I could also run some kind of fish, but I'm popular for running the unexpected kind of decks each tournament and this is why I came to this deck. Another reason for building this deck is, that I only own a Mox Emerald and an Ancestral Recall, and the only other deck that could be using these two is WTF and probably Birdshit. I ran WTF for quite some time, but recently it didn't do that good, so I started thinking of something else.

So I guess it's time to post my list now...

The creature base:

4x Quirion Dryad
2x Psychatog
4x Dark Confidant
1x Darksteel Collosus

The disruption package:

4x Force of Will
2x Misdirection
3x Daze
3x Duress
4x Chalice of the Void
1x Whipe Away

Draw/Business:

4x Brainstorm
1x Gush
1x Ancestral Recall

The Toolbox:

2x Life from the Loam
1x Tinker
1x Vampiric Tutor
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Mystical Tutor

The Manabase:

1x Mox Emerald
1x Mana Crypt
1x Lotus Petal
4x Polluted Delta
3x Flooded Strand
3x Underground Sea
3x Tropical Island
3x Island
1x Strip Mine
1x Swamp


Explainations:

Tinker/DSC: I know, most people will say cut it...BUT...I found that most of the time at these tourneys it was very useful. I packed it in most of my decks, such as WTF or Tendrils K.I., U/R/B Fish and it won me games I wouldn't have won without it. Actually it does quite well against Fish, which might be the worst matchup for this deck, because I only have to guard it 2 Turns to win. So I don't think I want to cut it. Perhapes some of you might say 7 Artefacts is not enough, but I think with Confidant, Brainstorms, Ancestral and Opts I'll always have one in play when I draw into Tinker

Counterbase: I think FoW is obvious so I don't have to explain much here. But concerning the Dazes and Mana Leaks, there could be some tweaking. I also thought about a Counterbase of 4 FoW, 3 Daze and 2 Misdirections, which might be better, because they're all free counters so I don't have to leave mana open for Leaks...what do you think about it?

Life from the Loam: I think LftL is an autoinclude nowadays if you play Tog, since it really helps making him lethal. Also it could randomly support a Loam + Strip Lock...and it helps stabilizing my manabase against Wastelands

Acceleration: Since Mox Emerald is the only Mox I own, it's obvious that I included it. Mana Crypt and Lotuspetal are there to help in the early turns and might if drawn later, be discarded into my Psychatog. I also thought about adding some Elvish Spirit Guides, which would help powering out a 1st turn Dryad, but I think this deck's aim is not to kill as fast as possible, but to kill fast and secure if you know what I mean...

The rest: Chalice is there to stop opposing Moxen and support Tinker. Confidant is my drawengine on a stick and the Tutors help me getting my bounce if need be or get me my Tinker or Loam or whatever I might need in a specific moment.


Well I guess that's it so far... I will playtest this in the next days and tell you how it did and I hope you'll help me improve this to be a competitive deck for the given meta.

At last I'm sorry for my bad english, but I'm german...

I was playing WTF for a while, but recently it didn't do that well...too much combo out there. This is why I looked for something more competitive and came to the idea of adding black for Duress and Bob. Don't know if this is such a good idea but it should help.

Also I now came up with a sideboard for my meta which consits of the following:

like: 30% Gifts
 10% Oath
 20% Fish
 25% Staxx
 25% Gobbo's, unpopular Combos like Psychatog, Easter Tendrils, Kobold Clamp, Masknought and Roughe Decks

So I threw the following together:

2x Trygon Predator --> Staxx
3x Oxidize --> Staxx
3x Waterfront Bouncer --> Oath
1x Duress --> Gifts, Combo in general
1x Daze --> Gifts, Combo in general
2x Umezawa's Jitte --> Fish
3x Arcane Laboratory --> Combo in general

And I'm still searching for room for either 4x Chalice of the Void or 3 - 4 Null Rod...

What would u say?

I was also toying around with the idea of playing a U/G deck and after some testing ended up with a U/G/b - variant...
First off, here a list of how far I am at the moment:

4x Wild Mongrel
4x Basking Rootwalla
4x Dark Confidant
2x Ninja of the Deep Hours

2x Echoing Truth
1x Crucible of Worlds
2x Life from the Loam
1x Regrowth
1x Vampiric Tutor

4x Brainstorm
1x Ancestral Recall

3x Stilfe
4x Force of Will
2x Daze
3x Duress

4x Wasteland
1x Stirp Mine
3x Tropical Island
2x Bayou
2x Underground Sea
4x Polluted Delta
2x Flooded Strand
2x Island
1x Forest
1x Mox Emerald

I didn't come up with a sideboard yet, since this is just a testversion. I made a few games with it against oath and gifts, and I have to say that both isn't easy. Oath depends on how good your starting hand is, if u got a duress and FoW you're likely to win and Gifts seems to be dependent on speed. If u manage to cut him off lands (Wasteland --> Life from the Loam) and get a Mongrel + Life from the Loam online, you're likely to win.
But I'm definately not confidant with this built...

I'm searching for room to integrate 3-4 Null Rods and 1-2 Trygon Predators to improve the Staxx Matchup.
I don't own more Power than the Emerald and the Ancestral, so I can't integrate more.

This deck definately has a good matchup against aggro, since u can easily get the mongrel - Loam engine online and just walk over them. I also think that it wrecks other fish variants, but I didn't came to test yet.

I hope this helps and maybe you guys could help me improve my baby...

 

Well, I played this tourney and placed 8th.
I really like the deck, it's absolute fun to play and the two matches I lost, were the result of an impressive manaflood.
Also the True Believers in the Sideboard were not the right choices, since everytime I sided them in (vs. Slaver, Gifts and Pitch Long), I didn't manage to get these WW to cast them early enough.
The 4 equipments though, saved me against White Weenie and Affinity and I'm really happy about your advise of playing them.
I also would really love to fit some Kataki's in the maindeck, he's so usefull against a lot of decks, I really would like to see him nearly every game.

One last question I have is: Is this deck unpowered playable?

Thanks...

Ok, so I should add one more land, I'd say the 8th Fetchland and go with a sideboard, somewhat like:

3x Kataki, War's Wage
4x True Believer
3x Pithing Needle
3x Umezawa's Jitte
1x Swords to Plowshares
1x Sword of Fire and Ice

Right?

Hi folks...

Well, this Saturday there is a Type 1 event in my area and since I managed to borrow all the cards I would need (all the power except Lotus, but I guess it's not the most important card in the deck ) I would like to bring this deck.
I read through all your posts and this is what I came up with:

4x Meddling Mage
4x Jotun Grunt
4x Dark Confidant

4x Force of Will
4x Duress
3x Swords to Plowshares
4x Hide//Seek
1x Ancestral Recall
1x Time Walk
4x Brainstorm
4x Stifle
2x ???

1x Lotus Petal
1x Mox Jet
1x Mox Sapphire
1x Mox Pearl
1x Mox Ruby
3x Flooded Strand
4x Polluted Delta
3x Underground Sea
3x Tundra
1x Volcanic Island
1x Swamp
1x Plains
1x Island

SB:

3x Arcane Laboratory
3x Energy Flux
1x Swords to Plowshares
4x Pithing Needle
3x Jitte
1x ???

Well...

There are 3 free slots, 2 in the maindeck, one in the sideboard...
For the maindeck I can think of different possibilities, I could maindeck 2 Sensei's Divining Top, as suggested in the tournament report, I could come up with 2 Azorius Guildmage, I could add 2 Misdirections, perhaps 2 Katakis (come to that later), or even 2 Negators. I really don't know which one I should choose...I also could add a Wasteland and a Strip Mine, or a Strip Mine and a Mox Diamond, as proposed in the post above, what would you say is the best choice?
Coming to the sideboard there are more things to be discussed...
First off, why did I choose Arcane Laboratory over True Believer? - Well, I think with full acceleration it comes out early enough and since it only requires one blue Mana it's much easier castable than True Believer, and since True Believer seems to be our main weapon against Combo, I think the Laboratory serves the same purpose.
Why did I choose Energy Flux over Kataki, War's Wage? - I think if I'm paired against any artifact based deck I want the best weapon I can get, and Energy Flux definitely is. With full acceleration it should easily be castable and the fact that it doesn't beat shouldn't be such a problem, since you got other guys to do that job. Another thing I think about Kataki, especially as a maindeck choice is, it taps your Moxen as well...and I think this deck runs those Moxen to be faster than other fish decks, so I think in game number one, one should try to be faster than the CS or Staxx player and try to keep control of the game, without shutting down own mana sources, especially when playing with Duress instead of Misdirection. In game two I bring in the Energy Fluxes and don't care of my Moxen any more.
Why did I choose Jitte over Sword of Fire and Ice? - Well, I guess this is just personal preference, I made good experiences with Jitte and don't want to replace it with any other equipment.
Concerning the free slot, I definitely do not know what to bring in...a fourth Lab? or a fourth Energy Flux? or any other card? perhaps a Rack and Ruin for the Chalice problem?

Concerning my Metagame, well it will be kind of mixed.
Several Gifts and TPS-Style Decks, a good amount of Fish, several random Aggro decks, several Oath decks and quite a few Slaver and Staxx decks. I couldn't say which deck I should expect the most off, but I guess there will be like 8 of 40 Oaths, 6 of 40 Fish, 5 of 40 Staxx or Slaver, 4 of 40 Gifts or TPS and the rest would be random Aggro or any other unique decks.

Now I'm really looking forward to your helpful answers...

Thanks...

Well, here is a link to a Tendrils K.I. list

http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=27005.0

How do you in fact deal with a 1st turn Null Rod, I mean, you only have a single Rebuild in there, I don't think finding it is always easy, is it?

Well, I think this is a very interesting deck to play and since I'm always searching for Combo-Decks which can be played on a budget I have some questions

- What makes this better than Tendrils K.I.?
- When do you side in the Elvish Spirit Guides?
- What's the reason for the absence of any maindeck disruption? (except Rebuild)
- What makes City of Traitors better than Ancient Tomb in this deck? (I guess the 2 dmg are not relevant when going off in the first few turns)
- Where is Necropotence?
- How would you deal with a first turn Null Rod or Trinisphere?

Thanks for your time...

Well, I have to admit - you were right. I took WTF cause it is my pet-deck, but I lost to nearly everything. I went 2 - 4, it was the worst tournament I ever played. I lost to Oath, Staxx, Birdshit and some U/B/G/W - Fishy thing, which eventually won the tourny.
So next time I'll either splash black for a better draw-engine and Duress, or just go for something else.

Thx for your help though, and this does not mean that I'll now stop working on WTF, in fact I just worked out a new U/G/B - List:

4x Wild Mongrel
4x Basking Rootwalla
2x Ninja of the Deep Hours
4x Dark Confidant
2x Waterfront Bouncer

4x Brainstorm
1x Ancestral Recall

4x Force of Will
2x Daze
4x Duress
2x Stifle

2x Diabolic Edict
4x Null Rod

4x Polluted Delta
3x Tropical Island
2x Underground Sea
1x Bayou
2x Forest
2x Island
1x Swamp
4x Wasteland
1x Strip Mine
1x Mox Emerald

Sideboard:
2x Diabolic Edict
2x Darkblast
3x Arcane Laboratory
2x Energy Flux
3x Ground Seal
3x Extract

I think such a deck would do better because of the superior drawengine Bob provides. I also realized that Null Rod > Chalice. Duress also is way better than most "free counters" and the Diabolic Edicts are good answers against Oath creatures and DSC.

What do you think?

Since I made only good experiences with Daze, I'll leave it in. But I have one last question before I go to the tourney tomorrow...

Do you think, that in the given meta, this Deck would do better than WTF?

4x Infernal Contract
3x Cruel Bargain
1x Ancestral Recall
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Vampiric Tutor
3x Diabolic Intent
2x Ornithopter
4x Phyrexian Walker
4x Shield Sphere
4x Culling the Weak
4x Dark Ritual
4x Cabal Ritual
3x Tendrils of Agony
1x Necropotence
3x Cabal Therapy
1x Yawgmoth's Will
1x Echoing Truth
1x Mox Diamond
1x Chrome Mox
1x Lotus Petal
3x Land Grant
1x Underground Sea
3x Bayou
4x Polluted Delta
2x Swamp

SB:
1x Tropical Island
1x Underground Sea
1x Island
1x Tinker
1x Darksteel Colossus
3x Xantid Swarm
1x Chain of Vapor
2x Hurkyl's Recall
1x Echoing Truth
1x Cabal Therapy
2x Massacre

I'm really unsure about what to play, because I know both decks and made good experiences with both decks and am not a good enough meta player to decide which of them'll do better in the given meta. I mean, the combo deck is very fast, doesn't die to hate like Duress or Counters or Chalice (at least not quite often) and it's only difficult matchup is Staxx which is weak in my meta. It doesn't have a safe game, though, which means it sometimes fizzles or is taken out by a simple Wasteland or dies to some cards, such as Arcane Lab or Meddling Mage (I never drew that Echoing Truth when I needed it) and has no Counterbackup, while TPS and Gifts do. The WTF on the other hand has a quite safe game, I never died because of a bad manabase, it has the Counters and can also deal with every kind of deck. It has a slightly unfavorable matchup against Oath, which I'll try to compensate through 3 Bouncers, 3 Seasingers and 3 Curfew. I never tested this configuration before, so I can't say if it works. It has good weapons against most decks in the maindeck (Chalice, Stifle, Counter, Bouncer...) and can provide a quite fast clock (Mongrel). Also I can't think of any card it actually dies to. Also if I can get the Extracts (I don't own any myself but a friend does) I'll try them in the proposed configuration.

Perhapes I have to add that I played both decks in that meta before and made 3rd with WTF and 4th with Tendrils K.I., not a huge difference and I might have been 1st with both decks if my opponents hadn't been that lucky. (With WTF he topdecked that Timewalk for the win - if he wouldn't have drawn into it, I would have won on my turn. With Tendrils I played against Gifts and it was the 3rd game, I was on the draw and had a 1st turn kill in hand but he also had that 1st turn kill in hand )

I think the idea of some Curfews in the side for the Oath Matchup is very hot and since I think the Predator is actually too slow against Oath and since Staxx is pretty weak in my meta, I'll cut those for the Curfews.

So the momentuous sideboard looks like this:

1x Mystical Tutor
1x Tinker
1x Darksteel Colossus
2x Ground Seal
2x Energy Flux
3x Seasinger
3x Curfew
2 Arcane Lab

Perhapes 2 Ground Seals might not be enough against Dragon which is played quite frequently (like 8 of 40 players) and perhapes I'll do a counter configuration like:

4x FoW
2x Daze
2x Remand
2x Stifle

What would you say?

Concerning Extract, what would you take out for some sideboard Extracts?

Well, the "Big-Man-Plan" was once in the maindeck, but I decided to exclude it to the sideboard, since it only improved matchups that weren't that hard to win either, like crappy Aggro and Control. What reasons do you find to include it?
The next tourney is on saturday and I think I'll go for something like this:

4x Basking Rootwalla
4x Wild Mongrel
4x Ninja of the Deep Hours
3x Waterfront Bouncer

4x Brainstorm
1x Ancestral Recall

4x Force of Will
3x Daze
3x Remand

4x Chalice of the Void
4x Aether Vial

1x Mox Emerald
2x Island
2x Forest
4x Tropical Island
4x Polluted Delta
4x Wasteland
1x Strip Mine
4x Mishra's Factory

1x Mystical Tutor
1x Tinker
1x Darksteel Colossus
2x Ground Seal
2x Energy Flux
3x Seasinger
3x Trygon Predator
2 Arcane Lab

This seems quite solid to me. Tinker-DSC stays in the side, since I won't need it often in my meta. Arcane Lab is quite a good inclusion for the side, since the decks that won those tourneys so far, were Gifts and TPS. The Predator will be my tech-weapon against staxx, which is quite weak in our environment (like 2 Staxx Players at a 40-60 man tourney). Seasinger and Bouncer seem to be my only real answers to Oath, which might be not enough, since this has been the hardest matchup so far.
Also I wonder if there should be Jittes in the side for good Aggro, like Food Chain or R/G, which I happen to see sometimes.
Perhapes this metagamebreakdown could be helpful:

I guess it we be something like this:

30% Combo (mainly Gifts and TPS)
40% Oath
15% Fish (mainly U/W)
15% Aggro (such as Sui Blonde, R/G Beats, Affinity and Food Chain)

Thanks for all answers soo far and sorry for me not replying till now, but I was on a trip to a TOOL-Concert, which was very, very, very hot...

Well, if I had a full set of power I would definately play it, but since I only own 1 Mox Emerald and 1 Ancestral Recall these are the only ones included in the deck.

Concerning Jitte...welll I haven't made any bad expieriences with them yet, they are just a house against Aggro and the give you a much faster clock and removal against Welder and Bob and crucial lifepoints in the TPS-matchup. But if you say so, I'll drop em and replace em with Predators. And of course you are right that Sol Ring is useless without Jitte.

Well, concerning the Factorys, I would definately never touch them...they are soo good Ninjitsu-Enablers and very good blockers against random Aggro. Surely they are not quite favorable for the manabase but they make your Deck work faster.

Hi @ all!

Since I'm a great fan of the U/G variants of Fish, I keep on building and testing such decks.
I now came to a list with a solid basis and some questionable slots around it, which I would like you to help me on.
So here is my actual list:

3x Basking Rootwalla
4x Wild Mongrel
3x Ninja of the Deep Hours
3x Waterfront Bouncer

4x Brainstorm
1x Ancestral Recall

4x Force of Will
3x Daze
2x Remand

3x Umezawa's Jitte
4x Chalice of the Void
4x Aether Vial

1x Sol Ring
1x Mox Emerald
2x Island
1x Forest
4x Tropical Island
4x Polluted Delta
4x Wasteland
1x Strip Mine
4x Mishra's Factory

This is the actual list I'm toying around with.
Coming to the questionable slots now, which are:
 - Sol Ring
This guy doesn't seem as if it would fit into any fish deck, but it helped me quite well in dropping those Jittes and Chalice early in the game. I'm still not sure if it is the right decision to include it.

 - Remand
This card seems to be bad on paper since it doesn't bring the countered spell into your opponents graveyard, but it's actually a great speed-boost. I'm really not sure about that slot and thinking about playing Stifle or even Extract in that slot.

- Standstill
Further I'm not sure if my draw-engine is good enough, or if I should play Standstill instead of Brainstorm. Brainstorm is just a card which saved my ass quite often in a counterwar, where it digs for that Daze/Force you need, which Standstill doesn't. On the other hand Standstill gives you 3 more cards and you really need lots of cards in that deck and has great synergy with Aether Vial.

My Meta is dominated by Oath and Storm-Combo in the form of Gifts and TPS. There are several Aggro Decks, like R/G or other Fish-Variants, so I build up this sideboard:

1x Mystical Tutor
1x Tinker
1x Darksteel Collosus
4x Ground Seall
2x Energy Flux
3x Seasinger
3x Naturalize


Tinker-DSC helps a lot versus fast Aggro and the rest should be selfexplanatory. I'm wondering if I should replace the Tinker-DSC-Mystical with some other cards...

So now I'm waiting for your answers to improve my deck for the next tournament.

Thx...

hirudo

I didn't include it, because in his list there wasn't any either, so I thought he wouldn't have any. If he has one he definately should include it, but I think it shouldn't be the Null Rod which is cut, because this is a card you want to see EVERY game, perhaps a Curiosity could make room for it. Fire/Ice is a strong card, but I think we won't find any room for it in the maindeck, since it's also a bit of a conditional card - if playing against combo it won't do anything big - so I guess the sideboard is the right place for this to come in against other fishy and aggroish decks.

http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=27005.0

This deck abuses the Draw-4's and it does very well...
Its also not hated by Null Rod or Chalice@0 and can go off by turn 1 consistantly.

Well, I think your build is far from perfect...

- Where are the Ninja's??? They are such a great draw-engine, you never want to miss it in fish
- Gorilla Shaman should definately be maindecked since it serves the mana-denial plan much better than Kataki
- You MUST play either Vial+Chalice or Null Rod to survive in today's meta!
- What is the Mystical Tutor for?
- Why Impule instead of Brainstorm? You say your deck is mana-hungry, so why include a card for 1U instead of a card for U?
- Why Misdirection instead of a 3rd Stifle or Remand or Daze etc. ? In fish it's absolutely not better than those
- Why so many 1-of's in a deck with (nearly) no tutors? You won't draw'em when you need'em, so just leave'em and play either Rod or Chalice

So I would propose something like this:

Creatures
4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Meddling Mage
3 Gorilla Shaman
2 Voidmage Prodigy
3 Ninja of the Deep Hours

Draw/Search
4 Brainstorm
3 Curiosity

Utility
3 Swords to Plowshares
4 Null Rod

Counters
4 Force of Will
2 Daze

Mana
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
4 Flooded Strand
1 Polluted Delta
4 Tundra
4 Volcanic Island
4 Island
1 Plains

It supports the fish-plan much better and is not filled with 1of's you won't draw anyways...
This build only contains 6 Counterspells, but the VMP should give you enough backup, since you now have a great drawengine with Curiosity, Brainstorm and Ninjas

Well me and my team were also toying around with a Tendrils deck based on Infernal Tutor and we created a Deck, that plays quite well, but is still far from perfect. It plays much more disruption in form of Ill-Gotten Gains, Duress and Leylines and therefore can also play the control route for several turns until you've prepared a save combo-turn.

So here is what we've got until now...

[Warp Tendrils]

3x Il Gotten Gains
4x Infernal Tutor
1x Yawgmoth's Will
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Vampiric Tutor
1x Necropotence
3x Tendrils of Agony
4x Dark Confidant
4x Dark Ritual
4x Cabal Ritual
1x Mana Crypt
1x Sol Ring
1x Chrome Mox
1x Lotus Petal
1x Lion's Eye Diamond
3x Duress
3x Cabal Therapy
1x Recoup
1x Burning Wish
1x Wheel of Fortune
4x Leyline of the Void
4x Polluted Delta
1x Bloodstained Mire
3x Bayou
3x Land Grant
3x Swamp
2x Badlands

Sideboard:

4x Xantid Swarm
1x Tendrils of Agony
1x Duress
1x Cabal Therapy
2x Pyroclasm
2x Pox
2x Massacre
1x Rack and Ruin
1x Echoing Ruin

Perhaps you could help us improve it for perfection...

I tried to fit a Memory Jar in there since it helps so much in going off, after a resolved Ill-Gotten Gains. Also Will is so important in this deck that we decided to include red for Recoup and Burning Wish. The Wish also gives you a maindeck solution for your problems. This deck absoluteley doesn't die to Null Rod or Chalice, which is why we didn't include any maindeck solutions for them. In the sideboard you can find Rack and Ruin and Echoing Ruin to serve that purpuse. Pox is very helpful against DSC and helps in going off. I'd really like to fit 1 maindeck and actually am thinking about cutting a Cabal Therapy for it.
What do you say?

I would cut the Ornithopters and add 3 Duress instead, because this deck seems as if it's very fragile, considering Chalice@1 and Null Rod. So Duress gives you a good way to get rid of those.

When do you usually combo off?