I really like this list, you seem to know what you're doing. A few questions:

1. What's the reason behind 2 Conclaves? Did you never have trouble with tempo when you draw both of them (especially in the early game)?

2. What made you choose Flusterstorm over REB? In long games, Flusterstorm can be played around, whereas REB is always live. REB also handles Delver and Jace, which is a nice bonus.

3. After the tournament, would you still keep 2 Steam Vents? A single basic makes a big difference against all decks running Wasteland.

4. What's your opinion on Vendilion Clique, Fire/Ice, Engineered Explosives and Repeal?

First off, good article, it's nice to see you back again. Don't overwork yourself though, just write an article when you have enough spare-time instead of having a regular schedule.

I disagree with this train of thought. I also play Dredge, and feel that you're actually losing percentages across the board in exchange for a slight increase in G1 win-percentage. Instead of speeding up and making yourself more vulnerable to Wasteland (which is a real card even in blue-dominated Europe), I think it is better to slow down the opponent. In particular, Chalice of the Void and Unmask have been excellent against blue-based decks and are useful postboard. This is important because it frees up valuable slots in the sideboard. When I played Fatestitcher Dredge, I almost always boarded out the Stitcher/Dread Return package, because it made you really vulnerable to Nihil/Tormod/Relic/Trap (and you need slots for the anti-hate).
The lack of Leyline of the Void in your 75 also has me worried about your chances in the mirror.

You are awesome!


I'd really try to reduce the deck to 60 cards, no reason to decrease your chance of drawing your best cards. Candidates for cutting are probably the singleton Gush or the third Mindbreak Trap. Without Painter, Gush strikes me as a card that is too weak. You should have plenty of draw power with Remora, Jace, Ancestral, Thirst and Twister. Mindbreak Trap is a good card, but it is often dead against MUD, Dredge and Fish, so I think two copies are fine. I would probably run the Mox Pearl instead, as the deck seems rather mana-intensive with Remora and the Painter combo. Additional manasources are also nice against MUD and Fish.

I would replace the Heretic in the SB with Hurkyl's Recall, your deck seems pretty well equipped to abuse the artifact-free turn Hurkyl's Recall gets you.

I'm running this:

4 Mishra’s Workshop
4 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
2 Mishra’s Factory
1 Rishadan Port
1 Tolarian Academy

1 Mana Vault
1 Sol Ring
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Pearl
1 Black Lotus
1 Mana Crypt

4 Metalworker
4 Steel Hellkite
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Tangle Wire
4 Sphere of Resistance
4 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Duplicant
2 Karn, Silver Golem

I run the 19th land because Duplicant increases the curve. Port is pretty useful by itself, manaflood is very rare. I like it so far.
Sideboard is:

4 Relic of Progenitus
3 Crucible of Worlds
2 Duplicant
2 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Jester's Cap
1 Sculpting Steel
1 Triskelion

It's pretty random, suggestions are welcome. Basically the only things I'm frequently siding in are the cards for the mirror, Fish and Dredge. Against control, I usually do something like -1 Mana Vault, -1 Steel Hellkite, +2 Duplicant to deal with their Tinkerbot. Somehow I feel this is lacking when I see my opponent siding in 6+ hate cards..

Under the moniker "control", I include: 1. Drain-based 2. Gush-based 3. Oath-based decks. This is a personal definition, I just want to show that I rarely board any cards against all those archetypes. "Big Blue" might have been a more accurate name.

Great primer, loved the Latin titles.

General question: How do you sideboard against control? I already have Duplicants main, so I'm wondering if I should even board at all. Control decks load up on artifact post-board, so the matchups turns more into their favor, while I'm not doing anything to improve. This feels a little problematic. Any ideas?

How about Sadistic Sacrament in the SB? It preemptively takes away the Oath targets, thus giving the Oath player dead cards. That way, you don't have to board out Null Rod. With Rod and Sacrament, you negate pretty much all win conditions. Sacrament is also nice against Storm combo.

Do you need more help against other Null Rod decks? With Lavamancer, Bolt and Gatekeeper, I guess things look good. If you still have problems, Jitte seems more powerful than EE, as it doesn't nuke your own threats and your opponent is likely to side out his Rod.

If you want to go the mana denial route against Shops, have you tested Gorilla Shaman? He gets around Thorn and eats Moxen, which makes your Wastelands even more powerful. Heretic was just an off-hand suggestion, you're probably right that he's too slow in this kind of deck.

I'm highly intrigued by the BR Sui deck. Beautiful build, one can see that its creator has a good grasp of the format. Some things I don't quite understand:

- Why the singleton Duress? Wouldn't the 4th Therapy be better, especially in light of Abyssal Persecutor (which is sick sick tech)?

- What matchups is EE for? I don't think you can reliably set it on 2 without hurting yourself.

- Are 4 Sprees enough against Shops? Personally, I would incorporate Viashino Heretic in the SB, but maybe I'm just paranoid about Shops.

Yes, it is. As long as Shops are good, I feel that Drain Tendrils is a better approach than anything Ritual-based. Drain is also quite good against Gush. In my limited experience, Sabotage has been better than Annul, as it is not dead after the opponent has played some artifacts. The only relevant targets Annul can hit are Oath of Druids, Fastbond, Necropotence and Bargain. While all of those are dangerous, I feel that they are not common enough to justify Annul. With 4 Duress effects and 8 counters postboard, you should be able to fight these enchantments.

I run Thoughtseize too, so Steel Sabotage is more "in addition" than "over" Seize. Spell Pierce has disappointed lately, so I cut it. Pierce is a good card, but I think it's better suited to Oath or Fish.

Jace is pretty hard to resolve against Shops, and a single Hurkyl's Recall is not enough in my experience. Discard has also been suboptimal, which is why I've chosen to go for the 2/2 split of Sabotage/Seize at the moment.

Isn't your benchmark a little too high? Especially in control with a multitude of answers, there are bound to be cards that suck in some matchups. You try to mitigate this by drawing and filtering. While true that Sabotage is suboptimal against Drains, Combo and Oath, you can still counter a Lotus, Moxen, Top, hard-cast Jar or VaultKey. Even in the worst-case scenario, you can use it to up the storm count for Tendrils or pitch it to Force.
I have to disagree with Fish though, the ability to handle Null Rod is relevant. Without a Rod on the board, I feel that UB has a major advantage. The usage of Inkwell has declined sharply, so I think that point is not really relevant. Besides, if they play Inkwell, you can simply bounce it with Hurkyls. I agree with Dredge, but then again, Dredge laughs off half of the deck..

I might be influenced by my view of the current metagame, but I see Shops as the clear deck to beat. As such, I feel it is necessary to include cards in the maindeck to fight it, preferrably cards that aren't completely dead in other matchups. Steel Sabotage fits the bill for me. I tried stuff like 3 Hurkyls main, but it didn't work out often enough. The ability to start countering on the first turn is really really important. Besides, they were even "more dead" against the other matchups.

While not as splashy as Blightsteel Colossus, I think that Steel Sabotage is the key that might revitalize the classic UB control archetype. As Brassman pointed out in his article, Sabotage allows you to have a versatile answer to Shops without dipping into another color. If you can do as much with fewer colors, then that is the better option in my opinion. There are just so many hidden benefits of playing fewer colors regardless of format. I love doing something in fewer colors than what other people want to do in more.

UB Steel

1 Voltaic Key
1 Time Vault
1 Myr Battlesphere
1 Tendrils of Agony

1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
1 Ponder
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Time Walk
1 Yawgmoth’s Will
1 Tinker
1 Gifts Ungiven

4 Dark Confidant
1 Sensei’s Divining Top
2 Jace, The Mindsculptor

4 Force of Will
4 Mana Drain
2 Steel Sabotage
2 Thoughtseize
1 Hurkyl’s Recall

1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Sol Ring
1 Black Lotus
1 Mana Crypt

4 Polluted Delta
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Flooded Strand
3 Underground Sea
2 Island
1 Snow-Covered Island
1 Swamp
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Library of Alexandria

SB:
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Extirpate
1 Pithing Needle
2 Steel Sabotage
2 Hurkyl's Recall
2 Doom Blade
2 Duress

The list is pretty straightforward. VaultKey, Tendrils and TinkerBot are still the best win conditions in the format and having a solid two-color shell around them is a tremendous boon. Battlesphere was chosen over BSC because in the matchups where I want to win via Tinker (Fish and Shops), Battlesphere is the best robot for the job. Being easily hardcast with Drain mana and having synergy with Academy is a nice bonus.

On the play, a first turn Sabotage that transitions into a second turn Drain is a good start to combat shops (in addition to something like first turn Confidant). Even though Steel Sabotage improves the Shop matchup, I still think it's unfavorable pre-board (especially on the draw). However, Sabotage allows us to more consistently stop the broken starts of the Shop player, which gives you more time to set up a Hurkyl's Recall. Though my sideboard is still under construction, I think that more Sabotages & Hurkyls/Rebuild is a good way to combat Shops without dipping into another color. I also like that Sabotage is pretty versatile and can be used to increase the Storm count for Tendrils, cycle in conjunction with Top or save a combo piece from destruction. If people switch to BSC as the default Tinker target, it increases the power of Sabotage even more.

The rest of the sideboard is built with other control, Fish and Dredge in mind. I guess I'm slightly unfavored against Gush and Oath, but with 4 Duress effects, 8 counters and an Extirpate postboard, I should have a chance. I haven't tested against Fish, but I think with Sabotage acting as a foil to Null Rod and Doom Blades & Needle coming in, it shouldn't be too bad.

I'd be glad to hear your opinions.

Heh, nice one!

Yeah, he has one big upside and that is the "I kill you in a single attack if you don't have anything" ability. However, there are too many ifs to make this new Colossus the consensus Tinker target. Although he has this flashy Infect ability, it's not something that remedies the flaw of Tinker targets. Namely being too slow against Storm and Dredge (sometimes VaultKey even outraces it) and not having sufficient protection. It's not even blue so that it can pitch to Force (that's relevant). You want a Tinker target that is good against Shop and Fish, and Blightsteel Colossus is not. Blockers, Swords, Duplicant, Tangle Wire, Smokestack, Welder - the list of cards that can handle it is pretty long. And now it got a little longer with Steel Sabotage (which I think is the most impactful card spoiled so far). Think about, why has Darksteel Colossus ceased to see play? It's exactly because of the reasons I outlined above.
Sure, if you can resolve an early Tinker and have backup to protect it, then it wins the game. But if you have an early Tinker with backup, does the target even matter much?

Sorry to ruin the party here. As a consolation: sell or trade this guy immediately to get maximum value out of it.

I'm going to swim against the tide here, I don't think this card is very good.

First, it can be handled with all the common anti-Tinker cards people are packing anyways, namely: Jace, Hurkyls, Chain of Vapor, Swords to Plowshares. This guy doesn't have Shroud like Inkwell or protection like Sphinx, so it is effectively more vulnerable. It doesn't even leave tokens behind like Battlesphere.
Second, in case your opponent has a blocker with toughness 2 or higher, this doesn't do any damage. This is particularly huge, as you can't follow a robot attack up with a small mini-Tendrils to finish the job in Storm for example. Same deck, but from the other side: if you use this against Storm and they block with two Confidants, they don't lose any life, which leaves Vampiric, Necropotence and Bargain intact. Unlike Sphinx, you can't turn any races around since it doesn't have Lifelink.

All in all, I don't think this cuts the mustard in Vintage.

This discussion is really interesting, and I think I have some food for thought.

Basically, the differences in the decklists above result from the differing opinions about the placement of the Gush deck in a speed/resiliency spectrum. What I mean by that is there is a trade-off between speed and resiliency: the quicker you are, the more vulnerable you are, particularly with Workshops in mind.

For example, Rico's list is more on the controllish side. Cards like Mana Drain and the various disruption spells indicate that he wants to defend himself into the midgame, where he thinks the superior velocity of Gush over other draw-engines will win him the game.
On the other hand, Blovdek tries to be more on the faster side, focusing more on the combo. He eschews some defensive measures in exchange for Draw7, which combine better with the Storm mechanic. Under this perspective, it becomes understandable that he doesn't play VaultKey, because he wants as few dead draws as possible to storm the opponent out and he needs the extra slots. That's why he likes Pierce better than Rico.
On the other end of the spectrum, I see emidln. Combining Gush with Rituals and Doomsday, he tries to leverage the mana and draw immediately to end the game with Tendrils. That explains why he likes Misdirection over Pierce or other defensive measures - mana is at a premium in the early game, and card disadvantage doesnt matter when he immediately wins the game.

Yeah, these are all guesses and not backed by evidence by any means, but I'm trying to understand why there is such a huge divergence in the Gush archetype and players have so radically different versions. I don't want to judge these approaches, as the "optimal" version largely depends on the metagame. It also shows just how flexible Gush is and the broad space it occupies on the speed/resiliency continuum.

As for my opinion, I see Gush as a strategy that lies between traditional blue-based control and ritual-based combo. I haven't found success with Rico's list, which in my opinion is a little too close to the control spectrum. Cards like Drain and especially Top are better suited for Tez-style decks in my opinion. After reflecting on my past games, I think the reason for my problem of "petering out" in the midgame stems from the fact that Gush is not a steady card-advantage engine like Confidant, but rather a short burst of action. If you don't find a game-winning combination within those bursts, you tend to lose against more controllish versions, who gladly make 1-for-1 trades until their superior card advantage takes over in the long-term. I'm a big fan of Top, but in a Gush deck, looking into a Top, not liking the three cards, cracking a fetch, and then looking again is too mana-intensive. I want that mana to cast my threats.
Despite their sexy appeal of winning a game asap, I feel that ritual-based approaches to Gush do not perform well in this Shop-dominated metagame. In the first page of this thread, it is nicely illustrated why. Without Shops, this option immediately becomes more attractive for me.

Blovdek's approach intrigues me, although I feel that VaultKey wins to many games to omit and there are a few cards I wouldn't play. The Preordains are what makes me think that this approach might be best suited to capitalize on the short bursts of card-advantage that Gush offers. Although Preordain might seem weaker than Top, it is more economical mana-wise, and chaining them together gets you to the needed cards much better than Top, fetch, Top. So my version is between the controllish version of Rico and the slightly combo-ish version of Blovdek. I feel that this is the place on the speed/resiliency continuum where I can best leverage Gush. I don't think I'm theorizing in a vacuum here, my results are getting better.

Thoughts would be greatly appreciated!

Pleasepleasepleasepleasepleas e continue doing this kind of metagame analysis, the article more than made my day!

The only thing I would change is the formatting, it would be easier to view if you put the metagame percentages of the US and Europe right next to each other horizontally, with the percentage difference added. Same thing with small and big tournaments.

Starting with the next Metagame Report, it would be nice if you could include a graph that highlights the popularity of an archetype over time (I think Menendian did this in the past, I found it very useful).

Again, thank you for the pure awesomeness in article form!

Yeah, I was expecting a worse Storm matchup when I made those changes. However, even with 3 Duress, my impression was that it's still an uphill climb for Gush. Same as with Dredge and Shops, I think you need a more dedicated package to hate Storm (something like Remora & Mindbreak Trap). The REBs were golden against control, in the mirror and against Fish. In the current metagame, I wouldn't play less than 3 REB in any deck that contains red. I did test your list from the first post rather extensively, and I had problems against a lot of decks, especially Noble Fish. I can't see how your initial version beats Noble.

The Chewer/Grudge package is pretty good though, I have to commend you on that. I think any deck that wants to have a decent chance against Shops needs to have a similar package.
Still, that's not answering the fundamental problem the deck has - it just isn't working good enough against the field. It seems that you understand my concerns, what do you think is the reason for the apparent flimsiness of Gush? What would you recommend?

I'm not able to accurately put my finger on the problem, but something is missing from this deck. After putting quite a few hours into playtesting the hell out of it, I'm left a bit disappointed. I'm going to post my list, explain a few changes I made to the original deck, and go into my experiences against the different decks.

The list I've used:

4 Scalding Tarn
3 Misty Rainforest
2 Underground Sea
1 Tropical Island
2 Volcanic Island
2 Island
1 Tolarian Academy
5 Moxen
1 Black Lotus
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt

1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Time Vault
1 Voltaic Key
1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind

1 Ancient Grudge
1 Lightning Bolt
3 Spell Pierce
3 Mana Drain
4 Force of Will

1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
1 Ponder
3 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Thirst for Knowledge
4 Gush

1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Gifts Ungiven

1 Fastbond
1 Tinker
1 Time Walk
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Timetwister

SB:
3 REB
1 Mountain
4 Ingot Chewer
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Ravenous Trap
4 Yixlid Jailer

The changes from Rico's list in the first post are:

Maindeck
-1 Regrowth, +1 Ancient Grudge
-1 Tropical, +1 Volcanic
-2 Mox Opal, +1 Lightning Bolt, +1 Timetwister
-1 Mana Vault, +1 Misty Rainforest
Sideboard
-3 Duress, +3 REB


These weren't some light-hearted changes, the arguments for the original list were quite convincing and I tried it many times. Mox Opal and Mana Vault were just sub-par overall. Sure, Opal can be great, but on the other hand, it can really leave you hanging when you desperately need Metalcraft but only have two artifacts (this is even more of a concern in postboard games, when Nature's Claim/Ancient Grudge/other artifact destruction is involved). Mana Vault felt like a one-shot colorless Dark Ritual. While underpowered, this isn't bad per se, but unlike Storm with Bargain/Desire/Jar, this deck only has Gifts/Will to really harness Vault's manaboost.
Regrowth was also mediocre, as it felt like an automatic mulligan when I drew it in my opener. Sure it was good when I've got the Gushbond engine going, but at that point I'd rather have Timetwister to end the game right away. Similar logic to the Hurkyl/Tinker issue.

The changes increased my winning percentages, but still not to a point where I'd like it to be. Interestingly, despite cutting two mana-sources, I was still flooded more often than screwed. Like I mentioned before, the deck starts to peter out in the midgame after your business spells are used or countered. Twister was good in remedying this. In the end though, those are just some slight tweaks that don't change the way the deck works.
In goldfishing, everything went well, but when faced with competition, the deck started to crumble.

- Shops are just horrible. You pretty much lose g1, win g2 and hope your opponent does not have a good first turn g3. I do have to say that the Chewer/Grudge package is pretty good though.
- Fish got a lot better with my changes. Before, Null Rod just was a beating, switching off Opals, Tops and your combo. I couldn't even "trump" Rod with Tinker, because I was bottlenecked on mana and Pierce/Daze countered it, or my opponent simply had Swords. Bolt is good to handle Pridemage, Meddling Mage and Gaddock Teeg, which are otherwise disruptive enough to tilt the scales in my opponents favor.
- Storm is unfavorable, they were faster than me and Duress was a beating. Although it is by no means standard, sideboarded Extirpate were very rough.
- VaultKey seemed favorable, but only slightly. An early Confidant was always a huge problem. You're not able to take the control route anymore, because Confidant will outdraw you in the lategame. However, this deck felt like it needed a really good draw to be the "beatdown", to seal the deal before the window of opportunity closed. If my draw was average or my opponent had a lot of counters, that was game. Like against Storm, if my opponent had discard & Extirpate postboard, the matchup felt unfavorable.
- Dredge was pretty ok after boarding. Jailer harmonizes nicely with Gush, as you can float 1B, Gush and then cast the Jailer you drew in the Gush.  Still, you need multiple hatepieces real quick, otherwise you're toast (I guess that's true for all decks). The old version had difficulties with Chalice, as its hand were more reliant on Moxen. Like Shops, you tend to lose g1, win g2, and hope he doesn't have a good draw for g3.


So in summary, I don't see that many good matchups with Gush. There are quite a few cards that are strong against Gush, like:

- REB
- Wasteland
- Duress/Thoughtseize
- Extirpate
- Gaddock Teeg
- Sphere effects

Those things are often seen at tournaments, so I feel like Gush is currently not an optimal choice. Somehow there is a tension within the deck. On one side, you want to wait as long as possible to use your Gushes optimally. On the other hand, you're often forced to act right away, which strains the deck enough that it can't properly execute its gameplan. Granted, it might be that I played suboptimally, but I think I can still judge a deck's characteristics pretty well after playing 100+ games with it. When it works, the deck is amazing. However, quite a few times you just Gush into basically dead cards like Tendrils and Sphinx. Or you look into your top and see something like Spell Pierce, land and a Mox.

If anybody has ideas on how to improve this deck or remedy the problems I've encountered - I'm all ears.

While others have covered the theoretical aspect pretty well, I want to delve into the practical side of things. Some things I discovered in testing:

- one Lightning Bolt main is very good, as it takes care of early Confidant/Lodestone/Jace/Welder and Fish creatures. Despite thinking that Rico is right with his reasonings, I keep losing if any of the aforementioned threats stick, since your opponent also has ways to interact with your "trumps". Bolt also goes well with Tendrils.

- Ancient Grudge is awesome. In fact, I started running one main, as it greatly increases your win percentage against Null Rod decks and is a decent card against VaultKey strategies.

- Twister gets nutty very quickly with with Fastbond/Gush.

- Wasteland is a problem, since you dont always have Gush ready. Even if you do, you might be forced to gush at awkward times. So I think one Pithing Needle in the SB is warranted, especially since it can come in against Shops, Fish and Dredge.

- Gifts is mediocre. I'm not running Regrowth, so that might be a reason. However, Regrowth was awful for me and drawing it in the opener felt like a mulligan to 6. I find that Gush + expensive spells do not synergize well. This is the card I side out most, since it is very vulnerable to manadenial and Spell Pierce. How do others feel about Gifts?

Primarily Gorilla Shaman, Goblin Welder, Dark Confidant and Cold-Eyed Selkie. While not a 1-toughness creatures, Gaddock Teeg is a major annoyance. Why doesn't Confidant concern you? In my experience, a first-turn Confidant really puts on the pressure, because the chances of winning are diminishing with each turn. And the deck frequently does not have the necessary business to punch through an early win. I really think you need a removal spell somewhere in your 75 (Bolt is my current favourite).

Btw, the only difference between our lists is -1 Mox Opal, +1 Timetwister (which has been good). I haven't given up completely on Opal, but two were definitely too many for me.

Quality posts here, awesome thread!
I've been testing your list Rico. It has performed well, but there are a few issues.

First, Mox Opal has been lackluster in crucial moments. I want my mana to be like my women - reliable. Mox Opal feels like a bimbo who needs a lot of jewelry before she does anything for you. There aren't many expensive spells you want to accelerate into, either.
Second, I'm really missing Fire/Ice somewhere in the 75. There are a alot of creatures with 1 toughness running around, and I definitely want a removal somewhere. To stay with the metaphors - you gotta burn those wieners.
Third, quite a few times the deck runs out of gas or has to switch into a draw-go mode because it only draws counterspells. I wished there were a few more business spells. While the Tops are nice, they are set-up spells, but no bombs. What are your thoughts on Timetwister? With Fastbond it gets ridiculous very quickly.

REBs in the SB have been golden, I can heartily endorse them.

I can only speak for myself here, but these are the reasons why I'm not frequenting TMD as often as before:


1. TMD is boring

Pretty simple. No innovation, no in-depth discussion, seemingly dead boards - I don't have an incentive to read and post in TMD anymore, because there's no productive discussion. I suspect teamboards and secrecy are incentives for player not to post the truly interesting stuff. I have to admit I'm guilty here too, because I don't want my competitors in the next tournament to know my list and strategy.
Even if one posts something, the quality of the replies is not good enough. Really, the only interesting stuff for me in the last year were intelligent posts by Demonic Attorney, Rico Suave, TheAtogLord and Grand Inquisitor.

I know this is a downward spiral here, but I hope you can find something to break this trend. A while ago, TheSource organized a new deck contest, which incentivized players for sharing their tech. The forums were very vibrant because of it. Maybe do something similar on TMD? Maybe other stuff where every team shares its best team-intern post and the winner team will get something?


2. The format is boring

Despite the unrestriction of Gush, the metagame has been pretty stale for the past year. Even if it is not, people perceive it to be that way, which is what counts in the end. The only positive exception has been Brian DeMars with Snake City Vault. Partly because of this, numerous regular players in my area don't attend Vintage tournaments anymore. This results in decreasing tournament attendance, since the influx of new players is slow. Even if there are new Eternal players, Legacy is a lot more attractive for a variety of reasons. Yeah, players might be leaving because they have other responsibilities and things to do, but really, if a format is exciting, one will take the time to attend despite a busy schedule.
The lack of Vintage coverage is also a factor. Though I didn't agree with all of his stuff, Menendian had a pretty big influence in promoting the format. Though less known, I really digged the analytical stuff of Phil Stanton. DeMars and Probasco writing for SCG is a ray of hope, but I don't want to buy Premium (and I suspect most players, too). This leaves Matt Elias, who is the flagbearer of the format in my eyes. I like his articles, but he rarely seems to write about Vintage these days. I also like the articles of Jaco, but like Elias, he often writes about other stuff.

Since new editions traditionally have a low impact on Vintage, changes to the restricted list will probably affect the format more profoundly. So I hope the DCI unrestricts a few more cards in order to rekindle the interest in Vintage. They don't have a lot to lose anyway, since the range of people they affect is so small and an overpowered card can simply be re-restricted.
I also hope that Elias and Jaco writes more Vintage articles, and that the DeMars/Probasco stuff will be free. While SCG Premium has been worth its money in the past, that is not the case in the present, in my eyes (CFB overall just produces better content).


3. Site structure

This has been voiced by some people here, and I agree in large part with them, especially with nataz. The segregration into sub-forums makes sense for a highly frequented site like mtgsalvation, but for TMD, a more simple structure is the better fit. The member status thing is basically cock-measurement and not really a reason why people frequent TMD less. Whether it stays or it changes won't make a difference. I don't think TMD is over-moderated. A nice possibility would be to work together with morphling.de. It would be a lot more convenient if I didn't have to open two different sites each time.
Basically, these are cosmetic changes, which might generate activity, but the root of the issues are the two points I mentioned above (especially no.2 and the decreasing tournament attendance).

Although it's a bit pointless since you can change names, avoid "Gunmetal". This mofo belongs to the nerdrage specimen.

My experience so far has been that the "Trinisphere is horrible" scenario occurred more often than "Trinisphere is amazing". My choice of omitting Trinisphere is based solely on empiric experience. While the second or third Sphere effect is often useful to cement a lock, Trinisphere is really a dead draw at that point. Like Troy mentioned, I'm running Chalice too, which further solidifies the manadenial plan.
You might be right that still running Trinisphere is correct though and it is very well possible that I will re-include it. I have a feeling that Trinisphere is similar to Gush, in that it is far less powerful than unrestricted, when you can build a deck around it.

However, I don't want to spend too much time on this issue. The real point of debate should be about the Dragon and Ratchet Bomb (and other possible inclusions from Scars). While testing, I have found that Leyline of the Void was less than optimal against Dredge, since the variance is so high and drawing it later is major frowns. While having one in the opening hand is definitely nice, it wasn't as high-impact as I hoped, since Dredge players are going to board in 4 Nature's Claim anyway against MUD.

1. Do you think that Relic, Ravenous Trap and Tormods are enough to beat Dredge? Is Nihil Spellbomb good enough?

2. Also, do you think that Triskelion belongs in the board? I'm having slight difficulties with early Goblin Welder and Lotus Cobra, which Triskelion would handle immediately.


Edit: Please delete the post below, accidentally hit the wrong button.

Tangle Wire and Chalice are very good in multiples. The sphere's have a cumulative effect, which is not the case with Trinisphere. Basically, when I had out two Spheres, Trinisphere was always a dead card. I haven't missed it so far.


Anybody else having experience with Steel Hellkite and Ratchet Bomb?

I tried Null Rod, but not instead of Karn. Karn is just such a huge beating everytime he resolves. Unless there's a Rod out, which is why I've cut them.



This is true, but I think the upside is so high that it's worth it. What I found was that opponents were often forced to use Nature's Claim or Hurkyl's before I dropped Hellkite, just to get out of the mana-lock. Hellkite is also really nice as a follow up to a Hurkyl's, when they can't kill you in that artifact-free turn, since it destroys all Moxen and sets them back to square one. Hellkite is also the nuts in the mirror, the player with the first activation almost always wins.

There were quite a few situations where I had to play Duplicant on an empty board, so I think it's better kept in the sideboard for now. It was not easy to cut Triskelion, but something had to go. If Dragon turns out to be underwhelming, I switch back to Triskelion. But so far, the Dragon has been outstanding.

I'm surprised that there hasn't been any talk about MUD post-Scars. Does everybody want to keep their tech secret?
Anyway, I'm not, because I believe that benefits of discussing and refining the deck is greater than the gains from secrecy.

To begin with, my current list:


DRAGON MUD

4 Steel Hellkite
4 Lodestone Golem
3 Karn, Silver Golem

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Sphere of Resistance
4 Thorn of Amethyst
4 Tangle Wire
4 Smokestack
2 Crucible of Worlds

1 Black Lotus
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl

1 Tolarian Academy
1 Strip Mine
2 Rishadan Port
2 City of Traitors
4 Wasteland
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Mishra's Workshop

There are probably three controversial issues here:

1. No Null Rod
2. No Trinisphere
3. No Metalworker

I'm also not playing Triskelion, Mishra's Factory, Sculpting Steel and Juggernaut, but I believe the omission of these cards is better understood than the three biggies above.
Please read my reasons before decrying me as a lunatic:

1. This was by far the hardest cut to make. Null Rod was excellent against Vault-based decks and MUD lists leaning on Metalworker. However, I believe most MUD lists will start to eschew Worker and resemble more like Joe Brown's winning list. Null Rod is also mediocre against Fish and Dredge. So, reason one was metagame consideration.
Reason two was synergy within the deck - the use of Steel Hellkite and Karn. I sometimes had trouble because I couldn't activate them under my own Rod. My plan against resolved Moxen now is to blow them up with Karn and Hellkite. Granted, it has the weakness that it gives the opposing player a window to play slightly bigger spells. I tried to remedy that by using Rishadan Port to further cement an early-game lock. Hellkite and Karn get a lot better if you have your Moxen active.

2. With 12 Spheres and Chalice, Trinisphere has often been redundant. It's strongest when played early, but it often was a dead draw when already having Spheres on the board. I'm no mathematician, but there has to be a "threshold", at which point Trinisphere's impact becomes negligible. I think with 12 Spheres, Chalice and Tangle Wire and 2 Ports, this threshold has been reached. Some german guys also dropped Trinisphere, and have done very well without it.

3. I think this issue has been pretty well covered on this board and in some articles. I rather want another lockpiece than acceleration, and Worker is not dangerous to rely on in a world with Null Rod and removal maindeck. Not having Workers reduces your vulnerabilty to Null Rod, as the only business cards affected by it are Hellkite and Karn. And Hellkite is fine even under a Rod.


Why Steel Hellkite?
Simply put, I think it's better than Triskelion and Duplicant. It gets very difficult to lose after you activate it once, which cannot be said of the other 6-drops. I like it against the mirror, Fish, Dredge and VaultKey strategies, which is basically the metagame. Blocking Trygon Predator is highly significant. Even against Null Rod, the 5/5 flying body is relevant and often better than a 0/8 Karn.

Why City/Port over Factory/Quarter?
Without Rod, I think it's more important to focus on shutting down mana, hence Port. City is there to ensure reaching 6 mana. Factory is less relevant because I have Hellkite and don't need the beats/blocking from Factory that much. Ghost Quarter is better against the mirror and Dredge, but worse against everything else, so I'm leaving it in the sideboard at the moment.

Speaking of the sideboard, here is a first draft:

4 Ratchet Bomb
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Ghost Quarter
2 Duplicant
1 Crucible of Worlds

I'm a big fan of Ratchet Bomb right now, as it can remove Oath of Druids and Jace faster than Smokestack. It's also decent against Dredge. Duplicant is there to take care of stuff that Steel Hellkite can't, namely Sphinx, Iona and Emrakul.


So far, this version has performed admirably. I feel it shores up the weakness of previous MUD lists - Trygon Predator, Oath of Druids and Dredge, while still having a good matchup against Vault strategies. However, this list is by no means set in stone, and I'd appreciate creative input from the community.

I think this discussion is on the wrong track. The relevant question would be: How can I prevent targeted removal on Precursor Golem?

Because if it doesn't get removed, this is the quickest clock available to Shops. Even if it gets removed by a Nature's Claim or something, it's still a 1-for-1 trade unless you have Lodestone out. I like it that it gives you the option of outracing Trygon Predator. So naturally, the next logical question would be:

Is Precursor Golem better in a MUD shell with Chalice=1 or in Red-Shops with Welder (where Chalice=1 is also a possibility, but more dangerous)?

No need to excuse. Actually, with the question I was indirectly asking on how high you would place Hurkyl's and Rebuild on your list. I suppose around 4-5?

Hurkyl's Recall and Rebuild don't have a place in your list?

Why do you rank Rack and Ruin higher than Shattering Spree?