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1  Vintage Community Discussion / General Community Discussion / Re: CCG Warehouse Going-Out-Of-Business Firesale on: August 27, 2006, 01:23:01 am
I lost my local store (even though I called the owner an idiot for stocking type one cards and not supporting the format).  It sucks when any dealer or store shuts down.
2  Vintage Community Discussion / General Community Discussion / Re: [Discussion] Withholding Decklists on: August 25, 2006, 11:46:53 pm
Sorry Arend.  I had false information about your intentions.
3  Vintage Community Discussion / General Community Discussion / Re: Ongoing GenCon Vintage Results on: August 22, 2006, 11:13:38 pm
This decision makes him a celebrity and if he ever plays the deck again every card will be posted.  Vintage is a slave to a master that doesn't care about it. It is his right to expoit an error by an irresponsible person but now he is marked and won't be able to play his deck without revealing something.  If there is only one article a year on vintage then who cares if it becomes zero.  Vintage players come to this website because we are a community.  I believe vintage is the best format in magic because it goes to the core of it's creation.  This is a betrayal to the vintage community and the vintage community will respon accordingly.
4  Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: [Single Card Discussion] Black Vise on: August 20, 2006, 11:45:16 pm
May all of you pushing for the unrestricting of Vise meet a newbie with a hand of Vise and Stipmine/Wasteland one day. In our gloriously swingy format, there is no need to increase the number of luck wins.

I understand the logic here. Damage doesn't matter. Decks that deal damage over several turns lose to decks that just win. Lock first the kill. All true.

BUT

If Black Vise were a murderer I'd not parole the %@%@#%^@# even if he is 87. Vise is the Smallpox of Magic. There might be worse things out there now, but there is no advantage to releasing it.

It's not as if there aren't worse cards on the B&R list.

Ok so some newbie is able to slaughter a terrible deck.  This would not bother me.  A workshop deck would take three then drop mox land lock peice.  A control deck probably would not waste force of will on vice.  This speeds up only red sligh strategies which are unviable because Chalice @ 1 owns then.  Most disruption is discard which would shut off vice.  I don't think it matters whether or not vice stays restricted or not because it isn't a useful card. 
5  Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: [Single Card Discussion] Black Vise on: August 16, 2006, 08:26:23 pm
In order to support unresticted vice fish would have to cut four disruptive cards.  Fish thrives because it's threats (Meddling Mage, Kataki, Dark Confidant, Apprentice) double as disruption.  Black vice is not disruptive.  What would you cut from fish to support Black Vice?  Black Vice is a suboptimal choice in a fish deck.  Combo can still win with 10 or less life.  Black vice would speed up pure aggro which is unviable because it lacks disruption.
6  Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: Mailbag Column for Smmenen on: August 16, 2006, 03:09:26 am
Do you think this format is healthy if it is dominated by control, combo, controlling combo and aggro control.  Was there ever aggro in vintage?
7  Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: [Single Card Discussion] Black Vise on: August 16, 2006, 03:05:48 am
Unresticted vice only helps aggro which is underrated in the current metagame.  Fish killing on turn four is not a valid arguement because this format contains combo decks capable of killing on turn one or two.  Black vice is not disruptive.  A prison deck would have to establish a lock before vice would become useful and even then there are better win conditions available.  The double vice draws and other insanity that people argue about occur in low percentages (the nutz) and every deck in this format has the capability to draw insane hands.  Black vice does not restrict players from playing cards like trinisphere and is not a part of any lock.  It only attacks an opponents life and even then only when they have four or more cards in hand.  I doubt it could ever be viable in this format.
8  Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: [Deck] Wheelchair Burn on: August 07, 2006, 10:35:02 pm
Black Vice is restricted.  I don't know how many artifacts are needed to make Shrapnel Blast useful but you could use artifact lands to up the count.  Also four Shrapnel Blasts may be too many.  Barbarian ring may be useful. 
9  Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: [Deck] Wheelchair Burn on: August 07, 2006, 09:06:04 pm
I would suggest Cursed Scroll, Black Vice, Shrapnel Blast, and Browbeat.
Why do you run one Fork if they are not restricted.
I would also suggest not splashing white if it is only for Lightning Helix.
10  Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: [Single Card Discussion] Black Vise on: August 07, 2006, 08:43:55 pm
Rogue Elephant is not restricted.

Unrestricted Black Vice would only be viable in red based aggro decks as reusable damage against control decks or a vintage remake of Owling Mine.  I doubt these decks would be tier one.  In prison decks there are much better threats available.  Black vice is too risky to run in any deck as it could just be a dead card against many decks.
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