Hi there. Congrats to Lellouche, that proved a good player can win with different decks. It's a lot of i time i don't post and play but i love madness, i played so many games with it and my two only (old) post are about it.

http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=36362.0
http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=30261.0


Random thoughts. In my experience when artifact and fish is a good % of metagame madness is a good choice. As Lellouche said in his report ravenou's trap and nature's claim are two very good sideboard cards, that helped him. He choose to run ancient grudge instead of deep for metagame choise, it makes sense... i don't really like merchant, the only real good target is fow, ancestral in a deck that run bazaar is not important as other decks, you draw already a lot, better a deep in a deck like this. Brainstorm, is worst that careful study in this deck. Mox jet: mox off colour are not that good...
I don't like intuition all that much because it seems very good but in a deck that run 4bazaar (= no mana) and don't run all that many mana artifacts, cc3 is so slow...
I like lavamancer, but i prefear sword to plowshares. With this configuration we don't have an answer to tinker for colossus and noble fish can sword it and you'll never kill his creatures, that's where swords i think are better. Oath the first game is a bad matchup but after sideboarding is a very good one, a lot of drawing + counter and disenchant effects. I like goyf more than mongrell and walla but in this metagame full of artifact decks i think the mongrell walla version is better. I like the spell pierce/ spell snare approach, better than duress in this metagame, a variant in the ugw version could be meddling mage. Tinker for darksteel is not that bad, but without tutors it's not that good as well, i would prefear two mongrell, and again cc3 is slow. I don't think Lellouche's deck is 50% against control and combo as he claims, at least against good players, because in my opinion with 1/1 as win conditions you are too slow, and your theats are not a big deal for them, especially if they don't run dark confidant as draw mechanic (against confidant at least your lavamancer are not totally dead cards). One very good thing of playing a deck like this, is that your opponents doesn't know how to play against you causing them a lot of mistakes, it happened a lot to my opponents.

Lellouche and his performance made me playtest again vintage after a long time. That's what i'm going to try (not tested it, at least in the last years ):

4bazaar of baghdad
3tropical island
3tundra
1island
5fetch
1strip mine
1mox pearl
1sapphire
1mox emerald
1mox ruby
1black lotus
(i've to test the mana base)


4wild mongrel
4basking rootwalla
4meddling mage

4circular logic
4force of will

3swords to plowshares

4careful study
3deep analysis

1ancestral recall
1time walk

2life from the loam
4squee goblin nabob

I play 16 lands and 2 ritual right now, if you want test it with 15 lands and 3 dark ritual or 14 and 4 you can try.

If you tell me that form of the dragon is useless i'm sure you haven't played the deck, because it's a must, without form of the dragon the deck doesn't work. When you cast bargain if you have enought life you'll draw a bounch of cards and then you'll do a tendril, but if you aren't able you can simply cast rector, discard some cards with a therapy and put form of the dragon in play with a force in your hand as protection then you draw 8 cards each turn, 4 in your and 4 in the opponent's one. I repeat, that's not a tps, and i understand your suggestions because before testing the deck i had the same ideas.

Tinker main deck is not very usefull because 1) your rector plan is good(the hate comes after sideboarding); 2) Every tinker target(colossus/sundering/inkwell) is good only in one matchup or two and useless in the others. It would be nice if you run also memory jar, but it's too mana intensive for this deck.



Not yet but i wanna try. The problem is that it seems a bit too complicated; another coulor, other non blue cards, the change of getting the rector without the therapy, or having both with enchantments into the grave without krosan reclamation(and surely i'm not happy to waste slots for cards like krosan reclamaton), having to play forbidden orchard that without oath it's a winning condition for the opponent, than i should cut some rector and i'm not happy to do it(also flash is getting worse), for casting oath i would need the offcoulor mox and the darkritual at the same time would be useless. I'll try some version with oath, also if at first glance it doesn't seem the best way to go(surely against some matchups like artifact it would perform better), but i could be wrong and the oath version could be the better one.

Obviously i play necro. About rituals read below


I was playing 4 dark ritual, then 3 and now 2. Ritual is good but in this deck is useless to produce more than four mana, it's not tps, you don't have mind's desire, you need the mana to cast a rector or a flash and at the same time holding as more protections as you can. Dark ritual fits perfectly with your strategy, it's needed for your best spells, rector/necro, but you need a ritual in your hand, when i tested four copies i often had in my hand 2or more useless rituals. We must remember that we have also 8 artifacts, in this deck i've noticed that mana vault is much better than dark ritual. My friend play 3dark ritual and i told him before testing the deck that he had to play 4, and now i play 2 . In real life opponents have wastelands, or counter, so producing 8 mana first turn to have countered your only spell it's not that good... That's what is happening a lot of times to me playing tps, and it's not happening that often now. Could be that 2 copies of dark ritual is not the right number, what i'm saying is that you have to test it before deciding because sometimes you read a decklist and you have some ideas that after testing you could change.

About duress: surely has a good interaction with therapy the only problem is that it's black and we already have few blu spells, anyway is a good card that can be included in the deck in one or two copies.

About bounce: one rebuild is more than enough, one advantage of this deck is that you don't need bonce spells (after sideboarding it's different), because you are very fast, so a lot of cards simply don't have the time to hit the ground, your plan is not to cast ten spell in the same turn so rod or other cards can stay on the board, and lastly fire/ice can handle the most of your problems.

You got perfectly the point. The real power of flash is the chance to have a turn two win card to tutor with vampiric/mystic/imperial seal/merchant/demonic. The idea of cunning wish is nice, but you can't cut flash.



What would be the advantage of being slower? Vault key are two useless cards alone, and you have also 4 therapy(and fire/ice), not only a flash to combo with.

Hi there, i'm Marco from Florence, Italy, and my english is very bad

I want to write about a deck that in my opinion is not considered as it should be(i was the first one but i changed my mind), it's very good imho. The deck is Rector-flash(i know, flash is restricted...), and the list i'm playing is very similar to Ryan's list, a friend of mine that convinced me to give a try to the deck.  

The list:

Card you have to play:

Combo: 13

4 Academy rector
4 Cabal therapy
1 Flash
1 Yawgmoth's bargain
1 Necropotence
1 Form of the dragon
1 Tendril of agony

Tutors: 5

1 Mystical
1 Vampiric
1 Demonic
1 Merchant
1 Imperial seal

Protection: 4

4 Force of will (obviously you have to consider also the therapy)


Others stuff: 4

1 Ancestral recall
1 Time Walk
1 Yawgmoth's will
1 Brainstorm

Mana: 26

1 Black lotus
1 Mana crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Lotus petal
1 Sol ring
1 Mox sapphire
1 Mox jet
1 Mox pearl
2 Dark Ritual
4 Gemstone mine
3 Underground Sea
1 Tundra
1 Scrubland (or second tundra?)
1 Volcanic island (or badland?)
3 Polluted delta
3 Flooded strand  

I tried 28 mana, with five moxes and four dark ritual  and 14 lands but then i noticed that i didn't need very much the mana off coulor of emerald and ruby(i've only two fire/ice) and that 4rituals were too many, so i added two lands and cut some acceleration to get a more solid mana base (you can't miss tthe first two land drop with this deck), then i don't like to play with 28 cards for mana now that brainstorm is restricted, it's less explosive but more consistent. Obviously you can try to add rituals and moxes instead of some lands/spell.



That's 52 cards so we still have 8 slots, that i used to test a lot of cards, that's what i'm playing right now:

2 Fire/ice (kill the rector, magus of the moon, dark confidant, ninja, meddling mage, cicling, tap out of mana drain, tap tormod's crypt, blu card for force of will)
1 Ponder (it's nice but not a must, in this deck you have to be very fast and you want to tap your mana only for tutoring and casting combo cards, you can't afford to lose time casting "quite good" spells  
1 Rebuild (it's very flexible like fire/ice, enable storm and a lot of other things)
1 Time twister (i like it, at first look it seems counterintuitive, because of terapy, it's the only situational slot that i play)
3 Misdirection (you need blue cheap cards for will, this is a good one, it's not a must)


Other cards that i tried are: tinker-jar, mind's desire, gift(very good but it's too mana intensive), fact or fiction, sleight of hand, intuition, duress(very good having also the therapy but i've too few blue cards for fow then), wheel of fortune, windfall.




Sideboard:

1 tinker (plan B against graveyard hate)
1 sundering (combo and drain decks)
1 colossus/inkwell (fish and artifact)
1 chain of vapor (leyline, storm enabler)
1 hurkil's recall
0/1 Memory jar (if they hates you graveyard you could try a tps approach, having already necro/bargain/twister, and we're already siding for tinker and a creature, but could be we don't need it, to be tested)
Some dredge slot
A few of artifact slot like ingot/hurkil

Other interesting cards are duress(very good with cabal therapy), pyroblast, empty the warren. Onestly i've not played a lot after side yet.


Usually i play tps but right now i prefear this one because it's faster, it has more protections, it has more broken threats(rectors and flash), it needs less mana cards so you can play more spells being more consistent, it hasn't to cast ten spells in the same turns thanks to form of the dragon so it soffers less from cards like null rod or spheres. After side if they hate you graveyard you still have answers(fire/ice and chain of vapor), a plan B(tinker creature), a plan C(tps style casting necro/bargain/doing ten spells with twister/jar); then it's difficoult for a deck after side to find space for cards like leyline of the void because they don't have useless cards against you like against a dredge deck. Surely it has not basic lands but you have fire/ice against an ipotetical magus of the moon and you have 16 lands so that you don't suffer too much the wastelands, then you have more blue and black mana than tps so it means less mulligan. On the paper it seems a weird deck but if you give a shot to the deck, testing it for a while and making then some suggestions i would thank you. Surely it can be improved.


Marco Benifei

One important thing about inkwell is that it is blue...

The most important thing about inkwell is that it is a blue dead card in your hand, that means that most of the time it's not a dead card anymore(usually you draw a force of will during a game)

You can pitch every blue card to fow, but usually in tps blue cards are key cards and you are not happy to pitch any of them, but that's not the case. Inkwell it's not simply having one more blue spell in the deck... it's not like: without inkwell i had 16 blue cards so the % of having it in my opening hand was x and now that i've 17 blue cards i've x+1/16x... In my opinion the question is: Do you prefear to pitch ancestral or time walk? and now, Do you prefear to pitch ancestral, time walk or inkwell? Moreover: Opponent: land ritual necro and you hold in your hand force of will, ancestral and darksteel colossus and other non blue cards = bye bye ancestral; now change darksteel with inkwell = you still have ancestral in hand. Sometime your inkwell become an ancestral , so pay attention trading them , that's vintage...

Sleight of hand in my testing wasn't that good because i thought i would decrease the number of mulligan but i realized that a bad hand after a sleight of hand the most of the time is still a bad hand...

inkwell in my opinion in a deck with 1 brainstorm and 0 thirst for knowledge is really better than darksteel colossus. The fact of being blue is too relevant. Against control or tps you'll tinker always for jar, tinkering for colossus or inkwell is useless...

I'm testing IT appproach too and i like it, that's my list:

2 Island
1 Swamp
4 U. Sea
4 Polluted Delta
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Flooded strand
1 Tolarian Academy

5 Moxen
1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault

4 Force of Will
2 Intuition
3 Deep analysis
4 Dark Ritual
1 Brainstorm
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Rebuild
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Ponder
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Tinker
1 Mind's Desire
4 Duress
1 Timetwister
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Time Walk
1 Necropotence
1 Inkwell Leviathan
1 Memory jar
1 Yawgmoth's bargain


SB:

3 Dark Confidant
3 Trinket mage
1 Yixlid Jailer
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Pithing Needle
1 E. explosive
1 Sensei divining top
1 Sundering titan
1 Darksteel colossus
2 Hurkyl's Recall

The deck is a mix between tps and it, i really like deep, i'm testing it quite enough with good results. The side is simply an experiment, it gives you a lot of side plan options.

Posted by: mishraw

Thank you!


I was playing one intuition and it's nice, but a bit slow, there aren't cards worst than intuition main deck imho, it's my 61 card so it didn't the cut. 3 mana means that's not a card in the opening hand that can easily tutor for bazaar, and in mid game it's not very good, but surely is a nice card in this deck.


I really don't like this solution. We have only 5 artifacts and one is lotus... we don't have crypt and sol ring that are needed to play tinker. Than against creatures deck where colossus is good usually they run wasteland and the difference between goyf that cost 2mana and tinker that cost 3 is quite huge in a deck like this that's low on mana. Then there are a lot of bounce spell, bouncing a colossus is different than bouncing a goyf, 2 mana and it's back into play, and i wouldn't cut 2protections for 2 more winning card.


Posted by: AngryPheldagrif

I don't understand why i would need a bounce in the main deck... It seems to me useless. Against chalice you have energy flux, the tog, and could be a goyf is already in play, than for an artifact deck set a chalice at two stop them all the spheres...


I don't think that manaless has 40% in g2 when the opponent start, otherwise it would be the best deck ever winning the most of g1, and like the name says manaless is built to not cast spell that require mana so after side it try to do a thing that's not builded for, so it does it badly. Moreover cards like tormod's have a different impact against manaless than against GAG. After side manaless hasn't tutors, no card drawing other than bazaar(hated), no counters to protect the answers, few mana, specific answers(a contagion doesn't destroy a leyline, the same for an oxidize, and charm doesn't destroy needle).

Side is a metagame choise. In a proxy tournaments surely the darkblast n.2 in side is quite useless, you can play with 3thoughtseize, 3deglamer, 3flux and still have a good side against the most of the field. Now you have 4slot against manaless(4leyline, or 3leyline and 1Yixlid?), it's still not a good mutchup but not an autoloss. Every deck has not good matchup, GAT couldn't win against MUD but it was a great deck at the same.

I'd like you try a bit the deck otherwise you can't really see how the deck works

Posted by: desolutionist

I mean that opponent's wasteland are useless if you have life from the loam.


Do you want to add the fifth color? You are brave , if you do it, my advice it to keep in side both deglamer and grudge, because deglamer is an answer to pithing needle and leyline, you need deglamer in every match-up. I'm happy you had a good impression testing the deck.



Posted by: AngryPheldagrif

This deck is worst than manaless, you are right, but it's worst only the first game, it's not explosive as manaless is, but after side this deck is much better than manaless, i think of being stronger after side against the most of the mutchup than in first game because i've key cards like energy flux and toughthseize, and deglamer as answer to opponent's hate. If i could choose i'd like to play all my games after side also if my opponent has a lot of hate, i think to improve the matchup more than them and that's because i put a lot of work testing after side .

The sentence: Careful is card disadvantage, or squee doesn't do nothing it's stupid... What does yawgmoth's will without grave, what does tendril without other spells? And thinker or tolarian academy without artifacts? The cards are sinergic among them, a careful is always good in the contest of the deck... Sure you need bazaar, but the deck is built around it and to find it and protect against opponent hate(deglamer) or wasteland(life from the loam).




Posted by: NicolaeAlmighty

Good question, thank you. I thought a lot how to play g2 and my conclusion is that deglamer is the key card, if you read the post i explain how to side in every match-up. Testing i noticed that tormod's crypt was never a problem form me, at least not a big one, because you discard by bazaar in eot and so you don't discard all squee in once if they have tormod's in play, and they have to sacrifice it if you simply have a deep and a squee in the grave, after two turns you'll have a full graveyard again... Extirpate is a bit more painfull than tormod's but i learned to play against it: never side out psycatog so if they hit tarmogoyf you still have a win condition; never side out life from the loam, so if they it squee you still have card advantage. The real problems are leyline and pithing needle. Leyline is the worst card you can face, but 50% of times they will not hold it in the opening hand and that means that if they draw it later you have all the time to counter it, or discard, or having a deglamer; if they start the game with leyline you need a deglamer, having a mongrell or an aquameba it's quite useless, i tried it(i was playing with mongrell and rootwalla), the best way is to have an answer, than having a plan B, because the most of the deck is based on grave and on having a madness activator, i would side at least 3 deglamer in every match-up, sometimes 4(if there is a game 3 you have more informations on opponent's deck). Pithing needle is similar to leyline: you have the advantage that going first you can discard it, or activate bazaar once so that's easyer to find a deglamer or discarding a deep to draw two more cards the turn later; but pithing needle cost only one mana and it's easy to tutor and then cast it in the same turn, i think it's the worst card we can face and we must side answers to it.



Posted by: Implacable

I noticed it too; it's not easy to find a lot of space for sideboard cards against a deck that run both control than creatures. Imho leyline is an extreme card, you like to side it against an extreme deck like manaless but testing my tps against GAG it's been difficult to find the space for 4leyline because you need duress and fow(and blue spell to pitch), so what do you side out? Moreover drawing in middle game leyline instead of good cards sided out wasn't very nice.


That's also my opinion, and for doing it i use deglamer that's good both if they run pithing needle or leyline.

@KnowmaD

I'm happy u like the deck. Basic lands and fifth mox are good questions... Since a week ago i was playing with five mox, a plain and an island. Moxes are good when you start bazaar first turn and you want cast deep from the grave in the second one. Another scenario is first turn careful, second turn mox deep bazaar/land duress, or similar things, but after that moxes are useless, you're going to discard the most of your lands you draw cause i want to keep the spell instead(you discard 3 cards every turn by bazaar) and a fantastic thing of the deck is that if u have 3 mana in play u don't need any more; often in the beginning u can play simply with bazaar and one or two mana, simply searching disruption (duress/logic/fow) discarding all the other cards to answer for opponent threats, than when you find 2 squee...
A funny thing you can do with mox ruby is a recursion of squee, it happened that it won me some games, but rarely, so that's not worth 1slot, and at the same time you don't need very much mana colorless, so i decided to cut the mox offcolor for a spell getting more raw power.
Basic land: with these 4colors the only other basic u can play is island. Against artifact decks(red shop and mud) basics are really good(forest would be nice but no way to play it, no green fetches get an underground sea) but in every other matchup basics are not that good, also against fish decks if u hold a bazaar in hand u can try  to cast first turn a careful or duress, or mox goyf so that they use their wasteland on your first land, saving the bazaar, once bazaar hit play u'll have all mana that u need.
One scenario you need a basic island is if u open your hand with only one land and a careful into a deep or careful #2, that's when you would need a basic island, but drawing 2 by careful and one more of turn it means that's 3 new cards, you should have drawn one land, and if u drew into a land it would be better to have fecthed for a land that give you 2colors(you've to arrive at 4...), or letting in play a decoy for opponent wasteland for saving bazaar(obviously not against artifact decks that run spheres, here you need as much mana as you can).
I would like having one island but probably if i had one slot i would prefer the third tropical saving a side slot, and you can't cut black mana, you need one in the opening hand for duress/tutors.

 
@13NoVa:

If you say that, probably you usually play combo decks, but if you would play an artifact or creatures deck you wouldn't say i wasted two mana casting a goyf. Against combo or control you want, like "Shock Wave" wrote, simply pack a lot of disruption, as much as you can and than goyf it's simply a finisher, and not that slow, being a 5/6. Goyf it's like driad worded in gat, if i'm playing against long versions or tps, attacking you quickly give you a few draw, and moreover you don't have many turns for casting necropotence or bargain. Obviously i prefer to draw duress/fow/logic than goyf in a game versus combo.

@Desolutionist:

Ancient grudge would be nice in this deck but without red mana you destroy only one artifact, and more important it's not a flexible card like deglamer is(you side it against every matchup). You could cut some energy flux but i like having gg cards against artifact decks.
About cutting white and add mystical and bounce spell i perfectly understand you. That's the "classic" approach, and it's classic because it's a good one; but bazaar of baghdad is a card that changes the rules of the game, we understood it with manaless, you have to forget every preconcept of deck construction if you run bazaar in your deck because rules change. Before it was: every turn you draw a card... now it's every turn you draw 3 and discard 3(and that's if you have only one bazaar in play), things works differently. I'm not able to explain you why in this deck is better playing a fourth color for swords instead of bouncing spells, i can simply tell you to try the deck, so you'll notice it.

Thanks everybody for reply

Marco

Hi everyone, i'm marco from florence, Italy. Sorry for my english, i'll try to write as well as i can

After the bannings i started testing a bazaar deck and now that i tuned it quite enough i wanna show you it.

GAG(grow a goyf) (the name is quite ugly )

Mana:(19)

1 plain
4 underground sea
2 tropical island
1 tundra
4 flooded strand
2 polluted delta 
1black lotus
4 mox(no ruby)

Drawing:(12)

4 bazaar 
3 deep analysis
4 careful study
1 ancestral recall

Creatures:(5)

4 Tarmogoyf
1 Psycatog

Tools:(12)

4 Squee
1 time walk
1 life from the loam
3 swords to plowshares
1 darkblast
1 vampiric tutor
1 demonic tutor
 
Protection:(12)

4 duress
4 force of will
4 circular logic


Sideboard:(15)

4 energy flux
4 deglamer
4 thoughtseize
1 sword to plowshares
1 darkblast
1 tropical island


The name of the deck(GAG) it's because imho the deck is not very different by GAT. It's a lot of drawing, 5 creatures, a lot of protection, low on mana because nothing  cost more than two mana(only a tog as an answer to chalice of the void settled at 2, and extirpate on goyf). After side, against control and combo decks it's also more similar to the last gat played by smennen(a deck that i liked a lot) because you cut the plain and mox pearl( you side out swords), running 17 mana and you add for 4thoughtseize having 8 discard effects.

The difference from GAT is that the deck in the first game(before side) hasn't very good match-up(except fish, you destroy them) but it  hasn't bad matchups becouse you have 3sword(with a basic plain as an answer to magus of the moon) and a darkblast so you are ok against red shop and mud.

One important thing is that in Italy usually tournaments are sanctioned so you don't run proxy and a lot of player don't own power nine and after bannings fish is reborned; also playing against goblin is not that rare. At the same a lot of artifact deck are played(both red shop and mono brown). That's why i need to run a fourth color(white) for swords(best removal ever printed). Also a lot of control and combo like tps run dark confidant main deck(to have more chance against artifact) so that swords and darkblast usually are useful in every matchup(don't forget thinker for clossus).

Another choise of metagame is not running anything in the side against manaless, it's because it's not very popoular in my metagame and lastly it's not winning all that much because everyone has a lot of hate in his sideboard; the other reason is that i haven't found good cards against manaless that are good in other matchups(also tormod's crypt, extirpate, and pithing needle that are more flexible cards than leyline, weren't very helpful in other matchups...) so i've chosen to improve the other mutchups and hope to not play against manaless twice in the swiss rounds. But it's simply a side choise based on my metagame, if you think of playing against a lot of manaless you can simply cut some cards and add leyline/tormod's/pithing needle/Yixlid jailer.   


How the deck works:

The aim of the deck is arriving at turn four alive than the game become easy because you get a lot of card advantage.

Reading the list you could think that 4 colors are too many but if you test the deck u'll see that mana it's not a problem, simply give it a try...

Bazaar is obviously the key card of the deck, because the deck is builded around it, with squee and deep you have a lot of advantage, useless to say that... Usually if u open an hand with bazaar u never mulligan, no matter what the other six cards are. Another key card of the deck is careful study, if you open an hand without bazaar it helps you to see a lot of cards(discarding into a deep for example, or dwawing a tutor/bazaar/careful/ancestral). You cannot mulligan every time you haven't bazaar so you need 4careful, not less; If you start with bazaar usally you will not cast careful in the game, but you will not discard it very often because it's the only card that you want to pitch at force of will.

The aim of tutors is to have two more cards in opening hand that let you search for, again, bazaar.

Life from the loam is really a powerhouse in this deck. It enables wasteland and it helps you to find the bazaar(dredge 3 usually is better than drawing one), than it's very good when you don't find squee in the early games having a card advantage at the same; lastly it leaves you a way to get card advantage if your opponent play an extirpate on squee.

Playing this deck is really difficult, you can read it like "playing perfectly", you need time to get confidence with all the little tricks you can do, but after some testing it's really funny to play and at the same time not a tier2(imho).

Using the side is not aesy because you should know what king of hate(and how many cards) your opponent has in his sideboard. He has leyline? Or Yixlid jailer? Pithing needle? Tormod's? A mix of them? You side out darkblast or leave it in the deck for a possible Yizlid jailer? A good news is that except jailer all the other cards are artifacts/enchantment so deglamer can take care of them. Another thing to say is that every side has cards against manaless and so they have cards against us but the difference is that against manaless every deck has useless cards to side out while against this deck they haven't useless cards so it's difficult siding too many cards.

Why deglamer instead of naturalize/ray of revelation/oxidize etc.? Because deglamer is very flexible, it destroy both artifact and enchantment and it's an answer to thinker for colossus or sundering titan, and that's very important when you side out sword against control and combo; moreover it can nullify the effect of mistical tutor or vampiric tutor shuffling an artifact in the deck, it nullify the recursion effect with welder or the immortality of a mishra factory with crucible of worlds. With only 4 slots in the side you have 4 good cards against artifact/oath and an answer to the opponent hate. 

Other cards that i tested are intuition and balance but they didn't the cut because about intuition, every card that cost more than 2 mana in a deck that start with bazaar first turn(= 0 mana) and hasn't sol ring or mana crypt, is too slow; while balance i thought was good, but testing, the most of the times i drew it, was useless. In the begin i was playing thoughtseize in the main and duress in side but it was too loss of life with deep/fow/fecth and against tendrill of agony was very risky, while after side with 8 discard effect you risk less a death by tendril.

Match-up analysis:

Fish: our best matchup, darkblast/life from the loam/sword/goyf are devasting. Side: +1sword +1darkblast +1tropical +2/3 deglamer out 4duress 1-2 between circular logic/deep/underground sea

Tps: i think we have 50%, after side surely the add of 4 more discard effects give us more chance to stop their boost . Out 3sword 1dark blast 1plain 1mox pearl 1tundra 1deep  in 4thoughtseize 3deglamer 1tropical island

Oath: The first game it's not easy but after side it's another story, it's difficult for them to let an oath in play. out 2tarmogoyf 3sword 1darkblast 1plain 1mox pearl 1tundra   in 4thoughtseize 4deglamer 1tropical island

Control decks: They don't have the boost of combo but they have more counters, i think it's about 50% side like against tps

Mono brown: Tarmogoyf is really good, smokestack is bad, i think we are 50% again, 55% after side(we both side a lot of cards). out 4duress 4circular logic 1darkblast 1demonic tutor/deep in 4deglamer 4energy flux 1tropical 1sword
 
Red Shop: out 4duress 4circular logic 1demonic 2deep    in 4deglamer 4energy flux 1darkblast 1tropical island 1sword

Control Slavery: Having swords and darkblast for their welder really help you a lot, it's not a bad matchup, i think it's about 60%. I don't think we will side a lot of cards, we haven't useless cards... it depends if the play magus of the moon or not, if they don't we could play without white and with two darkblast, but probably it's not a good choise. 

In the end there aren't bad matchups other than manaless(but you can play side cards if you are worried to face many of them), there aren't very good matchups, in spite of fish, but i think that after side there is an edge against the most of the decks(but no more than 55% or max 60%).



I hope someone will try the deck.

Let me know what you think, critics, questions, etc. are welcome

My 2 cents

Marco Benifei

Hi there! I'm new on this forum, so i'll try to introduce myself. My name is Marco Benifei, i'm from florence, italy, and i'm 23. I play magic since 1996 but i started playing vintage only two years ago. I know that my english is not very good but i'll try to do my best

I want to talk about madness, i love this deck and i played it in every kind of format and i'm still playing it in every kind of format 



1)

Let's start with my decklist:

4bazaar of baghdad
4tropical island
1tundra
1island
1forest
1plain
3flooded strand
3windswept health
5mox
1black lotus

4wild mongrel
4basking rootwalla

4circular logic
4force of will

4swords to plowshares
4careful study
4deep analysis
1ancestral recall
1time walk
2life from the loam
4squee goblin nabob

Sideboard:

4hidden gibbon
4naturalize
3energy flux
3roar of the wurm
1balance

I played the deck a lot, i did 5 tournaments in Italy, the smaller with 50 players and the bigger with 370 players, i won 3 and lost 2 in semifinal. I'm not saying it's the best deck ever, but surely it's ok, at least in the italian metagame.


2)

I'll try to analize some cards of the main deck:

bazaar of baghdad

It's a land, you can't counter it, you can't duress it, you draw two extra cards every turn, if it's buried by a wasteland you draw once at the same... simply devasting

Island-forest-plain

Against artifact decks you need them to avoid recursion of wasteland. We play two life from the loam so we could alse keep out the plain, but i'm still happy with this setting.

Life from the loam

I'm trying them... If your opponent has wasteland in the deck you need it, if you opponent doesn't have wasteland is quite useless but the deck is quite bazaar depending so you don't want to risk. Could be one life from the loam main and one in the side? You choise

Careful study

It's really good. In your opening hand you must have a madness activator otherwise you have to mulligan(exceptions are ancestral or blacklotus for a deep), so playing them you have four additional madness activator except to bazaar and wild mongrel. In this way you don't have to mulligan often. You need these card also to draw faster as you can into your bazaar. They are also very important to have blue cards to force of will; usually if you start with bazaar you willn't play careful in that game but you will not discard them because they are the only cards you want to pitch for force of will. I would play six careful study if i could 

Deep analysis

You don't have bazaar in your opening hand? Turn one careful and discard deep, turn two deep =5more cards(one of the turn)since the your opening hand. You have bazaar in your hand but you haven't squee? turn one bazar discarding a deep, turn two mox land deep and you can continue to activate your bazaar without discarding key cards. I would play six deep if i could

Squee

It doesn't do nothing...but you need four of them because i must be able to have bazaar in play, i played two tournaments without squee but against decks like gift it was really hard without them


Sol ring

I'm not playing it anymore, because i needed 1 slot for the second life from the loam but i don't now if i did the right choise because with 4deep analysis is really good and also after side if you put in roar of the wurm or if you play against workshop decks...


3)

Sideboard analysis:

Energy flux

You need it only against workshop decks, but if it hit the table you win...


Roar of the wurm:

Against creature decks...6/6 is big


Naturalize

You need it against oath otherwise you lose, you need them against workshop decks and you need it against a lot of other cards like pithing needle, nullrod, jitte and so on...It's a really flexible card for our sideboard.


Hidden gibbon


It's a new entry but i feel so studid to never try it before... It semms ok, but i need testing to decide, other options are orim's chant(against tps and yawgmoth's), or 4duress and one bayou(in that scenario you have to change flooded strand with polluted delta to have 6 fetch lands for bayou)


balance

Often is a useless card but sometime it's the only card that can save you from bad situations




4)

Matchups:

Madness has the particolarity of being a deck that is near to 50/50 in every matchup, in any format, seldomly you are 80/20 or 20/80 so it means that you must be very good playing the deck to take advantage in every matchup. It's not simply to play because drawing a lot of cards and obviously discarding a lot of cards you'll have a lot of choise every turn. The only thing i told you is: learn to play the deck and you'll notice tha's not that bad how it could seem in the beginning.



Sideboarding strategy:

Against workshop decks:

In 4naturalize 3energy flux and 1roar, out squee and  logic because they're plenty of wasteland for bazaar so squee often would be useful and the circular logic are bad cards when you aren't able to have a bazaar in play(or tapped out for a tangle wire). All you have to do is take time with force of will, sword and naturalize and finish them with energy flux. After sideboarding you have an huge edge.

Fishlike:

you don't want circular logic, they didn't have bombs in the deck to counter and they're plenty of wasteland, so out. The same for force of will, also because without locig you wouln't have blu cards for it to pitch. In: roar, naturalize(you don't want pithing needle to stay in the board and you can use it also to destroy mishra, nullrod, jitte). Now that i've in my side also gibbons i think i would side for them so i think we could also keep out some squee, depends on how many naturalize we want(we have also two life from the loam that give us cards to discard for bazaar)


Oath:

The first game it's hard but you can count on four naturalize after sideboarding that surely will help you a lot. Honestly when i had duress in the board i used to keep out wild mongrel, basking rootwalla, life from the loam and the plain(depends if they play wasteland) for duress, roar and naturalize and playing the game like a control deck, taking advantage with bazaar and don't letting oath being activated by creatures and when i was sure to be in control winning casting a roar from the grave; but now that i run gibbons instead of duress probably the plan will change and we'll have to try rushing them with gibbons wild mongrell and rootwalla, siding out life from the loam the plain and the swords, but i'm not sure it would be the best strategy, i've to test it before.


Tps, gift, pitchlong:

It's not easy to sideboard against these decks because it depends a lot if they play dark confidant or not(to decide how many swords to side out), it depends also if they run pithing needle in the side(naturalize). Against gift is a lot easyer because the are slower then tps and pitchlong or similar decks. Surely gibbons put pressure on them and if they run dark confidant it's a good thing; if they wouldn't play dark confidant i think that keeping out the white from the deck and sideboarding for black with bayou and the duress would be much better, because it's true that madness it's an aggro-control but in vintage i like to play it more control than possible because creatures often are too slow and it would be better have a contrast.


I'm going to stop now, i hope you enjoy the article and that you'll help me to test the deck. Every kind of reply is welcome, obviously also criticism.

Have nice games!

Marco