DATE: Saturday, 17 October
TIME: 4:00pm
WHERE: Eternal Games
26051 Hoover Rd
Warren, MI 48089
(586) 684-4263
ENTRY: $20

Play Magic's most powerful spells in a fun, relaxed atmosphere. Unlimited proxies are allowed.

We'll be giving away special Vintage-staple proxies as prizes to randomly selected players each round. Hope to see everyone here!

Prizes will be awarded in store credit, based on attendance.

​Prize Distribution:
1st - 25%
2nd - 20%
3rd/4th - 12.5%
5th-8th - 7.5%

Ex. prize payout w/ 20 players in store credit:
1st - $100
2nd - $80
3rd/4th - $50
5th-8th - $30

Date:  Saturday, August 29th
Time:  1:00pm
Where: Eternal Games
           26051 Hoover Rd
           Warren, MI 48089
           (586) 684-4263
Entry:  $20
Format:  Vintage

Play Magic's most powerful spells in a fun, relaxed atmosphere. Unlimited proxies will be allowed.

We'll be giving away special Vintage-staple proxies as prizes to randomly selected players each round.  Check back towards the end of the month for pictures.  I'll post them as soon as they arrive.  Hope to see everyone here!

Prizes will be 100% store credit.

​Prize Distribution:
1st - 40%
2nd - 20%
3rd/4th - 10%
5th-8th - 5%

Ex. prize payout w/ 20 players in store credit:
1st - $160
2nd - $80
3rd/4th - $40
5th-8th - $20

Date:  Saturday, May 16th
Time:  1:00pm
Where: Eternal Games
           26051 Hoover Rd
           Warren, MI 48089
           (586) 684-4263
Entry:  $20
Format:  Vintage

Play Magic's most powerful spells in a fun, relaxed atmosphere. Unlimited proxies will be allowed.

Prizes will be 100% store credit.

​Prize Distribution:
1st - 40%
2nd - 20%
3rd/4th - 10%
5th-8th - 5%

Ex. prize payout w/ 20 players in store credit:
1st - $160
2nd - $80
3rd/4th - $40
5th-8th - $20

We're holding a Team Serious Open in March at Eternal Games in Warren, MI. Join us for some Vintage craziness!

Unlimited proxies will be allowed.

Date: March 7, 2015
Entry: $20
Start: 1:00pm
Prize: 100% payout in store credit

Location:
Eternal Games
26051 Hoover Rd.
Warren, MI 48089

Prize Distribution:
1st - 40%
2nd - 20%
3rd/4th - 10%
5th-8th - 5%

Ex. prize payout w/ 20 players in store credit:
1st - $160
2nd - $80
3rd/4th - $40
5th-8th - $20

You can visit Eternal Game's event page on Facebook

Date:  January 10, 2015
Time:  6:00pm
Entry:  $20
Prizes:  100% store credit

Come join us in celebrating Ben and Mike's birthdays by playing some Vintage.  Unlimited proxies will be allowed.  The event will be held at:

Eternal Games
26051 Hoover Rd.
Warren, MI 48089
586.684.4263

I'm looking forward to sending you back to the graveyard you emerged from.

We're holding a Team Serious Open in December at Eternal Games in Warren, MI.  Join us for some Vintage craziness to kick off the New Year!

Unlimited proxies will be allowed.

Date: December 20, 2014
Entry: $20
Start: 1:00pm
Prize: 100% payout in store credit
Location:
    Eternal Games
    26051 Hoover Rd.
    Warren, MI 48089

Prize Distribution:
1st - 40%
2nd - 20%
3rd/4th - 10%
5th-8th - 5%

Ex. prize payout w/ 20 players in store credit:
1st - $160
2nd - $80
3rd/4th - $40
5th-8th - $20

You can visit Eternal Game's Facebook event page at https://www.facebook.com/events/999833540033081/

Thanks to all the great players who came out to play Vintage.  We had a smaller turnout this month but no shortage of innovative decks and great games.

On to the metagame breakdown.  We had 14 players show up with the following archetypes:

Aggro Control [3] = 21.4%
Workshops [2] = 14.3%
Mana Drain [4] = 28.6%
Misc Combo [4] = 28.6%
Dredge [1] = 7.1%

The following was the top 4 after 4 rounds of swiss.  The top 4 split $80 in store credit.

1st place - Marland Moore - U/W StoneBlade
  4 Flooded Strand
  1 Polluted Delta
  4 Wasteland
  1 Strip Mine
  3 Island
  2 Plains
  2 Batterskull
  2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
  4 Stoneforge Mystic
  3 Snapcaster Mage
  3 True-Name Nemesis
  4 Phyrexian Revoker
  1 Brainstorm
  1 Mystical Tutor
  1 Ancestral Recall
  1 Time Walk
  1 Mox Emerald
  1 Mox Ruby
  1 Mox Jet
  1 Mox Sapphire
  1 Mox Pearl
  1 Black Lotus
  3 Mental Misstep
  4 Force of Will
  2 Negate
  4 Swords to Plowshares

SB:
  1 Sword of Feast and Famine
  3 Grafdigger's Cage
  2 Abolish
  3 Kataki, War's Wage
  1 Balance
  2 Flusterstorm
  2 Council's Judgment


2nd place - Kevin Poenisch - Drepths
  4 Stinkweed Imp
  4 Narcomoeba
  4 Golgari Grave-Troll
  4 Ichorid
  4 Golgari Thug
  1 Flame-Kin Zealot
  1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
  4 Cabal Therapy
  4 Bridge from Below
  4 Force of Will
  4 Mental Misstep
  4 Mindbreak Trap
  2 Tormod's Crypt
  2 Dread Return
  4 Bazaar of Baghdad
  3 Petrified Field
  1 Library of Alexandria
  1 Strip Mine
  1 Wasteland

SB:
  4 Dark Depths
  4 Thespian's Stage
  3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
  2 Vampire Hexmage
  1 Mana Crypt
  1 Riftstone Portal


3rd place - Mike Danielson - BUG Swing for Two
  1 Mox Sapphire
  1 Mox Ruby
  1 Mox Pearl
  1 Mox Jet
  1 Mox Emerald
  1 Black Lotus
  4 Wasteland
  3 Verdant Catacombs
  3 Misty Rainforest
  3 Underground Sea
  2 Bayou
  1 Tropical Island
  1 Forest
  1 Strip Mine
  4 Deathrite Shaman
  2 Spell Pierce
  1 Flusterstorm
  3 Mental Misstep
  1 Brainstorm
  1 Ancestral Recall
  4 Abrupt Decay
  1 Scavenging Ooze
  1 Demonic Tutor
  4 Dark Confidant
  1 Time Walk
  3 Snapcaster Mage
  2 Trygon Predator
  2 True-Name Nemesis
  1 Edric, Spymaster of Trest
  1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
  4 Force of Will

SB:
  2 Grafdigger's Cage
  3 Nature's Claim
  1 Mental Misstep
  1 Umezawa's Jitte
  1 Scavenging Ooze
  2 Yixlid Jailer
  1 Null Rod
  1 Mismember
  1 Vendilion Clique
  1 Energy Flux
  1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor


4th place - Geoffrey Moes - BUGgery
  3 Polluted Delta
  2 Scalding Tarn
  2 Misty Rainforest
  3 Underground Sea
  3 Tropical Island
  4 Wasteland
  1 Strip Mine
  1 Steel Sabotage
  1 Demonic Tutor
  1 Time Walk
  1 Brainstorm
  1 Ancestral Recall
  1 Mox Jet
  1 Mox Emerald
  1 Mox Sapphire
  1 Black Lotus
  1 Vampiric Tutor
  3 Mental Misstep
  3 Null Rod
  2 True-Name Nemesis
  4 Abrupt Decay
  4 Deathrite Shaman
  3 Spell Pierce
  4 Force of Will
  2 Vendilion Clique
  4 Dark Confidant
  3 Snapcaster Mage

SB:
  2 Toxic Deluge
  2 Dismember
  2 Nature's Claim
  3 Surgical Extraction
  1 Darkblast
  1 Grafdigger's Cage
  2 Yixlid Jailer
  2 Energy Flux


The biggest winners this month, in contrast to last month's results, were aggo-control decks with 100% in the top 4.  Dredge also put 100% in the top 4.  Kevin Poenisch continues to do well with his creative and inventive Dredge lists.  Drains and Shops clumped in the middle and various forms of combo continue to be at the bottom of the standings. 

We'll have another Vintage tournament in two months.  I hope to see everyone there!  Thanks to the Vintage community for the great support.

We had a great turnout at the last TSO with 23 players.  Unlimited proxies will be allowed. If you use proxies, there are two options.  1) You can print out the whole deck on stock printer paper and insert the printouts in front of a sleeved Magic card or 2) you can sharpie all oracle text on a basic plains and insert it in a sleeve with the rest of your deck.

Format: Vintage
Date: September 27 (Saturday)
Start Time: 1:00pm
Entry Fee: $20
Proxy Limit: UNLIMITED
Location: Eternal Games
26051 Hoover Rd
Warren, MI 48089
Phone: (586) 684-4263

Prize Distribution:
1st - 40%
2nd - 20%
3rd/4th - 10%
5th-8th - 5%

Ex. prize payout w/ 20 players in store credit:
1st - $160
2nd - $80
3rd/4th - $40
5th-8th - $20

You can visit Eternal Game's Facebook page at www.facebook.com/eternalgamesmi

First off, I'd like to thank all the great guys that came out to play Vintage on Saturday.  It was great seeing friends I haven't seen in a long time.  We'll be holding the Team Serious Opens bi-monthly so key an eye out in the next week or two for the next announcement.  I look forward to seeing everyone next time.  We'll have a better selection of cards in the cases since it will be after Gencon.  Much of our higher end stock had already been set aside since we're setting up as a vendor at Gencon again this year.  If you're around the Eternal Games tables, stop by and say hi.

On to the metagame breakdown.  We had 23 great players show up with a variety of archetypes. There were:

Aggro Control [10] = 43.5%
Workshops [4] = 17.4%
Mana Drain [4] = 17.4%
Misc Combo [4] = 17.4%
Gush [1] = 4.3%

The following was the top 8 after 5 rounds of swiss.  The top 8 split $57.50 in store credit.

1st place - Charlie Krug - U/W StoneBlade
 4 Flooded Strand
 3 Tundra
 3 Island
 3 Polluted Delta
 1 Library of Alexandria
 1 Tolarian Academy
 1 Plains
 1 Black Lotus
 1 Mox Sapphire
 1 Mox Pearl
 1 Mox Jet
 1 Mox Emerald
 1 Mox Ruby
 1 Sol Ring
 1 Mana Crypt
 1 Mana Vault

 4 Mana Drain
 4 Force of Will
 3 Mental Misstep
 2 Flusterstorm
 1 Misdirection
 3 Swords to Plowshares
 1 Ancestral Recall
 1 Time Walk
 1 Thirst for Knowledge
 1 Gifts Ungiven
 1 Brainstorm
 4 Stoneforge Mystic
 1 Batterskull
 1 Sword of Feast and Famine
 2 Snapcaster Mage
 2 Consecrated Sphinx
 3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

SB:
 1 Misdirection
 1 Surgical Extraction
 1 Hurkyl's Recall
 3 Rest in Peace
 1 Swords to Plowshares
 2 Steel Sabotage
 1 Disenchant
 1 Seal of Cleansing
 4 Leyline of the Void

2nd place - Randall Witherell - Doom Blast!!!
 4 Mishra's Workshop
 3 Ancient Tomb
 4 Bazaar of Baghdad
 6 Mountain
 4 Wasteland
 1 Strip Mine
 1 Black Lotus
 1 Sol Ring
 1 Mana Crypt
 1 Mox Emerald
 1 Mox Jet
 1 Mox Pearl
 1 Mox Ruby
 1 Mox Sapphire

 4 Goblin Welder
 2 Grafted Wargear
 4 Scuttling Doom Engine
 4 Shrapnel Blast
 4 Squee, Goblin Nabob
 4 Solemn Simulacrum
 4 Magus of the Moon
 4 Tangle Wire
 
SB:
 4 Lodestone Golem
 4 Thorn of Amethyst
 3 Blasting Station
 1 Trinisphere
 3 Pithing Needle

3rd place - Michael Danielson - BUG Swing for Two
 3 Underground Sea
 2 Bayou
 1 Tropical Island
 4 Misty Rainforest
 2 Verdant Catacomb
 4 Wasteland
 1 Strip Mine
 1 Forest
 1 Black Lotus
 1 Mox Pearl
 1 Mox Sapphire
 1 Mox Jet
 1 Mox Ruby
 1 Mox Emerald

 4 Force of Will
 2 Spell Pierce
 2 Mental Misstep
 4 Abrupt Decay
 1 Time Walk
 1 Demonic Tutor
 1 Vampiric Tutor
 1 Brainstorm
 1 Ancestral Recall
 1 Tinker
 1 Blightsteel Colossus
 4 Deathrite Shaman
 4 Dark Confidant
 3 Snapcaster Mage
 1 Scavenging Ooze
 2 True-Name Nemesis
 2 Trygon Predator
 1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

SB:
 1 Energy Flux
 2 Snuff Out
 2 Yixlid Jailer
 1 Umezawa's Jitte
 2 Ratchet Bomb
 3 Nature's Claim
 1 Jace, the Mind Scupltor
 2 Grafdigger's Cage
 1 Flusterstorm

4th place - Jon Johnson - U/W StoneBlade
 4 Flooded Strand
 1 Polluted Delta
 1 ? Blue Fetchland ?
 3 Tundra
 1 Library of Alexandria
 1 Tolarian Academy
 2 Cavern of Souls
 1 Plains
 3 Island
 1 Black Lotus
 1 Sol Ring
 1 Mana Crypt
 1 Mox Pearl
 1 Mox Sapphire
 1 Mox Jet
 1 Mox Ruby
 1 Mox Emerald

 3 Stoneforge Mystic
 1 Vendilion Clique
 1 Magus of the Future
 4 Trinket Mage
 3 Swords to Plowshares
 1 Batterskull
 3 Mana Drain
 2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
 1 Engineered Explosives
 1 Grafdigger's Cage
 2 Sensei's Divining Top
 1 Fact or Fiction
 1 Disenchant
 1 Ancestral Recall
 1 Time Walk
 1 Thirst for Knowledge
 4 Force of Will
 1 Spell Snare
 2 Mental Misstep
 1 Flusterstorm

SB:
 1 Ethersworn Canonist
 1 Disenchant
 1 Aven Mindcensor
 1 Stoneforge Mystic
 1 Vendilion Clique
 1 Flusterstorm
 1 Pithing Needle
 1 Batterskull
 1 Swords to Plowshares
 3 Grafdigger's Cage
 3 Rest in Peace

5th place - Dave Wainwright - Fenton Oath
 1 Strip Mine
 2 Tropical Island
 3 Underground Sea
 4 Forbidden Orchard
 2 Island
 1 Misty Rainforest
 1 Scalding Tarn
 1 Flooded Strand
 1 Polluted Delta
 1 Black Lotus
 1 Sol Ring
 1 Mana Crypt
 1 Mox Sapphire
 1 Mox Emerald
 1 Mox Jet
 1 Mox Ruby
 1 Mox Pearl

 4 Oath of Druids
 2 Griselbrand
 2 Show and Tell
 4 Force of Will
 3 Mana Drain
 2 Flusterstorm
 4 Mental Misstep
 1 Mindbreak Trap
 2 Abrupt Decay
 2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
 1 Time Walk
 1 Ancestral Recall
 1 Yawgmoth's Will
 1 Demonic Tutor
 1 Vampiric Tutor
 1 Brainstorm
 1 Time Vault
 1 Voltaic Key
 1 Tendrils of Agony
 1 Memory's Journey

SB:
 1 Emrakul, the AEons Torn
 1 Show and Tell
 1 Abrupt Decay
 2 Nihil Spellbomb
 2 Pithing Needle
 3 Nature's Claim
 1 Wasteland
 4 Leyline of the Void

6th place - Aaron Hamilton - Forgemaster MUD
 4 Mishra's Workshop
 4 Mishra's Factory
 4 Ancient Tomb
 1 Tolarian Academy
 4 Wasteland
 1 Strip Mine
 1 Black Lotus
 1 Sol Ring
 1 Mana Crypt
 1 Mana Vault
 1 Mox Sapphire
 1 Mox Jet
 1 Mox Emerald
 1 Mox Ruby
 1 Mox Pearl
 
 4 Chalice of the Void
 4 Thorn of Amethyst
 2 Sphere of Resistance
 3 Tangle Wire
 1 Trinisphere
 4 Phyrexian Revoker
 4 Lodestone Golem
 4 Kuldotha Forgemaster
 1 Duplicant
 1 Wurmcoil Engine
 1 Blightsteel Colossus
 1 Sundering Titan
 1 Steel Hellkite
 2 Phyrexian Metamorph

SB:
 1 Sphere of Resistance
 1 Steel Hellkite
 1 Wurmcoil Engine
 2 Crucible of Worlds
 4 Relic of Progenitus
 3 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
 3 Witchbane Orb

7th place - Phil Hillman - Vault Control
 1 Tundra
 4 Polluted Delta
 3 Underground Sea
 1 Strip Mine
 2 Bayou
 1 Library of Alexandria
 1 Tolarian Academy
 1 Scalding Tarn
 1 Island
 1 Volcanic Island
 1 Black Lotus
 1 Sol Ring
 1 Mana Crypt
 1 Lotus Petal
 1 Mox Sapphire
 1 Mox Jet
 1 Mox Emerald
 1 Mox Ruby
 1 Mox Pearl

 1 Vampiric Tutor
 2 Abrupt Decay
 1 Time Walk
 1 Yawgmoth's Will
 1 Sensei's Divining Top
 1 Time Vault
 2 Voltaic Key
 1 Tinker
 4 Force of Will
 1 Flusterstorm
 1 Swords to Plowshares
 3 Mental Misstep
 1 Timetwister
 1 Brainstorm
 1 Ancient Grudge
 1 Ancestral Recall
 1 Mystical Tutor
 1 Ponder
 1 Demonic Tutor
 1 Lightning Bolt
 1 Blightsteel Colossus
 2 Deathrite Shaman
 2 Snapcaster Mage
 2 Dark Confidant
 1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

SB:
 1 Nihil Spellbomb
 2 Leyline of Sanctity
 1 Trygon Predator
 1 Deathrite Shaman
 2 Surgical Extraction
 1 Flusterstorm
 2 Hurkly's Recall
 1 Mindbreak Trap
 1 Mental Misstep
 2 Grafdigger's Cage
 1 Pithing Needle

8th place - Kurt Fruth - U/R Delver
 4 Misty Rainforest
 4 Scalding Tarn
 1 Mountain
 3 Island
 3 Volcanic Island
 1 Black Lotus
 1 Mox Sapphire
 1 Mox Ruby

 4 Mental Misstep
 4 Preordain
 4 Gush
 4 Force of Will
 1 Ancestral Recall
 1 Mystical Tutor
 1 Brainstorm
 1 Ponder
 3 Lightning Bolt
 2 Spell Pierce
 1 Steel Sabotage
 1 Flusterstorm
 1 Fire // Ice
 1 Misdirection
 1 Time Walk
 4 Young Pyromancer
 4 Delver of Secrets
 2 Snapcaster Mage
 2 Vendilion Clique

SB:
 4 Ingot Chewer
 1 Hurkyl's Recall
 4 Grafdigger's Cage
 2 Grim Lavamancer
 1 Dismember
 1 Pyroblast
 2 Ravenous Trap

Combo appears to have been the biggest loser at this event [0% in the top 8], followed by Aggro Control [30% in the top 8].  The big winner was Mana Drain [75% in the top 8] and Workshops [50% in the top 8].

For the food aficionados out there planning on attending the tournament, here are some nearby restaurants you might be interested in.

Juliano's Restaurant

http://www.julianosrestaurant.net/

The Pantry Restaurant

http://www.thepantryrestaurant.com/

The Chocolate Gallery

http://www.chocolategallerycafe.com/

We're bringing the Team Serious Opens to Michigan in July at Eternal Games in Warren, MI.  Join us for some Vintage craziness in preparation for GenCon!  

Unlimited proxies will be allowed. If you use proxies, there are two options.  1) You can print out the whole deck on stock printer paper and insert the printouts in front of a sleeved Magic card or 2) you can sharpie all oracle text on a basic plains and insert it in a sleeve with the rest of your deck.

Date: July 26, 2014
Entry: $20
Start: 1:00pm
Prize: 100% payout in store credit
Location:
    Eternal Games
    26051 Hoover Rd.
    Warren, MI 48089

Prize Distribution:
1st - 40%
2nd - 20%
3rd/4th - 10%
5th-8th - 5%

Ex. prize payout w/ 20 players in store credit:
1st - $160
2nd - $80
3rd/4th - $40
5th-8th - $20

You can visit Eternal Game's Facebook page at www.facebook.com/eternalgamesmi

I'm not sure I understand what the complaints are about.  It seems to me that Cockatrice is actually in violation of Hasbro's copyright.  In what sense are they not copying MtG close enough to be considered violating the copyright.  The game is the same and the cards even have the graphics on them, unlike MWS.  The interface actually looks like MODO's.  Is this just a case of wanting to defend something you like or is there actually any substance to this disagreement?

I remember being shocked that MWS was left to exist unhassled back when I use to use it.  Cockatrice is even more similar to MtG.  I'm pretty sure most, if not all, people using Cockatrice consider what they do on there 'playing Magic'.  What's the difference between writing a book and having someone else distribute it for free and what Cockatrice is doing to Hasbro?

I agree completely.  I use to play TPS but after the unerrata of Time Vault, I found it too hard to beat the blue, TV decks.  Flusterstorm, Mental Misstep and Mindbreak Trap hadn't come out yet. The three may be situationally better than other counter spells but just as bad as it is good in other situations.

Drawing them closer to Tinker isn't necessarily a good thing.  There are also other cards in an opponent's deck that are very good to exile that aren't bombs.  If a Mana Drain were to be removed by the Specter, it would blank them drawing a Tinker anyway.  If you exiled the Tinker targets, it would blank Tinker as well.  It's arguably better than a draw engine because you're taking cards your opponent obviously wanted in his deck since he included them in his deck.  You might say it's not optimal since they could be running a stronger card but it's doing something the opponent doesn't want you to do and increasing your options.  Unless they have a Top in play, I don't see how there is no value.

You don't want to be on the draw against anything that can get a significant advantage on you by the first turn.  Since that can be said of any format, even Return to Ravnica draft, you almost never want to be on the draw, especially in Vintage.  In really slow draft formats it's very reasonable to be on the draw but not otherwise.  I suppose if you were playing a Fish or Landstill mirror, it wouldn't matter much.  Too many things can bury you before you get a chance to do anything and the small amount of information you think you're getting doesn't even remotely outweigh the disadvantage of being on the draw.  Against blue, they're drawing cards a turn before you.  Against Shops, they're laying Spheres and Chalices and you may never get to play a spell.  Against Dredge, they're almost half way to killing you by the end of their first turn. 

Getting little nuances of information is much more important in formats where the power level of the cards is much lower.  You need to leverage each card for everything it's worth to get an edge.  In formats as powerful as Modern, Legacy and Vintage, the information isn't as important as being the first player to start doing powerful things.  Basing your game one mulliganing decision on the power of your opening hand is a much more reliable way to win than hoping you get enough information from your opponent in his first mulligan and your ability to correctly interpret any information you may be getting.

Additionally, many Vintage players play similar archetypes from tournament to tournament so if you know who they are, you probably have a relatively good idea of what they're playing as soon as they sit down across from you.

GP winner Brian DeMars takes a look at the results of a recent Vintage tournament in Europe and explains where he sees the metagame going moving forward.

http://www.starcitygames.com/article/25619_Islands-Across-The-Ocean-LCV-January-Vintage.html

Can't wait.

Well, it's good in corner cases.  If you play against a lot of Fish, it's a removal spell for almost any of their creatures.  If you play against Jace decks, it's alright.  It taxes an already expensive spell and the decks that play Jace tend tend to play spells like Snapcaster Mage, Dark Confidant, Vendilion Clique, Trinket Mage and sometimes Aven Mindcensor.  I don't actively care about killing Snapcaster Mage and Trinket Mage but it's strong against the other creatures.  If you're holding Will, the draw/discard can fuel it so it's more powerful.  

It's okay at doing a bunch of things but I wouldn't say it's good at anything.  Personally, I'd rather just play better cards but if you want an okay spell that does a few things, this could be your card.  

I wanted the draw/discard ability to be better but it's not very good either.  It's not like end of turning Thirst for Knowledge where they're caught between a rock and a hard place.  If they counter Thirst end of turn, they could get blown out by a bomb on the next main phase and if they let it resolve, well, they just let a powerful draw spell and graveyard enabler resolve.  Izzet Charm can be powerful in that situation but it tended not to be.  You can't use it to generate card advantage like Thirst outside of running awkward cards like Deep Analysis with it.  The more copies of DA you play, the more awkward your deck becomes or you just play one or two and you rarely see it when you want it.  

Maybe it's good with Accumulated Knowledge but Accumulated Knowledge is probably as clunky and unimpressive as Izzet Charm as an engine.  It might have been a good fit in the old Drain Tendrils decks but then the mana cost is really awkward.  Basically, the games where Izzet Charm appeared good, it was held up by the more powerful cards in the deck.  As a utility spell, I like Fire/Ice more.  It usually two-for-ones.  This card never really does that.  

Maybe there's a blue/red deck that just plays 4 Izzet Charm, 4 Accumulated Knowledge, 4 Snapcaster Mage and 1 Goblin Welder.  Fill it with a bunch of control cards and just try to grind games out, kind of like an aggressive version of Landstill.  I'm sure you'd need to play a basic Mountain in the deck because fetching a Volcanic Island to cast Izzet Charm against Workshops is a fantastic way to get buried by Wasteland and Spheres.  You'd also need to shore up Oath as I'm sure it's a terrible matchup.

In that kind of deck, Meddling Mage's suggestion of more Mana Drains is good because you don't have to fight with your mana as much since you're not as aggressive.  If you're not aggressively casting Izzet Charm, you can just play land, end step Izzet Charm with Drain up and go from there.  Maybe Onslaught's right and pairing it with Snapcaster Mage is better than pairing it with Goblin Welder, or at least not as many Goblin Welders. 

I'll keep working on some ideas. 

Yeah, I noticed that when I started building the deck to test.  I had a long testing session today and it didn't really go anywhere so I didn't update the list.  I ended up with one Welder being a good number and Izzet Charm being pretty bad.  In the end, it ended up just being another typical blue deck once the Charms got cut and the Welders trimmed to one.  If I was playing against a bunch of two toughness creatures or 4 Jace decks all day, Izzet Charm would be better.  Taxing a 4 mana spell is pretty good and having 4 removal spells against Fish is good but the deck sucked against Shops and other blue decks.  I didn't play against Oath but I imagine it's not very good with 4 Welders and 4 Flusterstorm with no way to remove a resolved Oath.  With Vault-Key cut, you can't even goldfish them.

So Izzet Charm is about as good as I'd heard, not very.  It's best when countering a Jace and killing a Fish creature.  It hits Revoker against Shops but unless you fetch a basic Mountain to play it, they just Wasteland you out of the game.  Welder isn't good on it's own.  It needs to be paired with something like Gorilla Shaman or removal.  You can't depend on counters to be castable in time to get something in their graveyard to manipulate their board.  It really isn't very good at doing anything.  If Fish and Jace decks became popular, I might run a couple but the working parts of the deck is the basic blue shell.  The addition of Izzet Charm is just kind of gimmicky. 

Also, apologies to the moderation staff.  I just saw that there's a Creative Forum to put stuff like this under. 

Maybe Null Rod doesn't fit in this deck.  In 5 games today, the four cards I thought could be cut were critical and Null Rod would have been strictly worse.  Revoker does a good enough job of cleaning up Mox mana and Spheres do a pretty good of burying you if you only have one Mox.  Dismember is very good in Terra Nova and cutting yourself off Mox mana could either cause you to take too much life loss from Dismember, Ancient Tomb and Phrexian Metamorph or just not have enough mana to cast Dismember through Spheres.  Fewer people are also running Vault-Key right now. 

In the main, I have 4 Welder and a Burning Wish to get Shattering Spree.  In any case, I don't want to make this about Mana Drain.  I'm just sharing my perspective.  Maybe Mana Drain's awesome.  I didn't want to build a deck and thoroughly test it then write a primer on it.  That doesn't generate a lot of activity on threads because most, if not all, the work is done already and people don't have much to say.  I want this to be a community thing where people are free to express where they think the deck should go.


I've pretty much played Drains non-stop for eight years against perfectly fine players.  We don't need to go down this route.  We obviously have different results with them against Shops.  I don't find Draining a Sphere to be enough to break through most of the time because it's one small part of a lot of cumulative effects going on.  Agree to disagree? 

Do you have any suggestions for replacements for Vault-Key? 

I think this is wrong. This is probably why we take such different approaches. I try to create windows with targeted removal through which I play over the top effects. You try to control the game.


...conditionally. My argument is those conditions are hard to come by.

I want to talk about counters against Shops a little more. It's been said that the reason blue decks don't do we'll against Shops is because they often play narrow counters like Misstep and Flusterstorm. I disagree with the sentiment because there is no good counterspell against Shop decks. You need to have targeted removal so you can build your mana and eventually deal with the threat.

It's entirely too easy to play around countermagic with Spheres and sequencing. If I'm holding a couple Spheres, Lodestone and the mana to cast them, I'm not going to play the Lodestone into two open blue mana, obviously. You're left with Draining a Sphere and I still cast another one then play Lodestone when the window presents itself. Even with your two extra mana from Draining a Sphere, what are you going to do that turn outside of just holding a Jace or Tinker in your hand?  Say you tutor, cantrip or play a draw spell. You're still going to be buried under spheres, Tangle Wire, Lodestone and/or Chalice the following turn.

That's why I don't even keep in Force of Will when I have better cards in the board. You can't cut gas or you just durdle around when windows present themselves. I cut counters because they're only good if you have them before the problematic card comes down AND have the mana to fire them off when you need to. That's a tall order. I use countermagic for blue decks because that's where they're most effective. I use targeted removal against Shops because I find that far more effective than counters. Granted, they're good if you're at parity or already ahead but again, that's hard to do early on against Shops.

There's basically three things that matter against Shops. Building a solid manabase, getting to targeted removal and over-the-top effects that dominate the board. Counterspells don't really do any of those things, at least not very well.

I didn't include Mana Vault because there's really only four spells that require the mana boost, Thirst, Gifts, DA w/ flashback and Will. You could argue that Welder needs more artifacts but I don't even know if 4 Welder is right.

I don't want to play many Mana Drains for the same reason I'm hesitant to play Mana Vault but also because I want to fetch basic Mountain against Shop decks. I'm not a fan of counterspells against Shops and often even side out Force of Will against them. The idea is, it's not hard for Shops to maneuver around counters because of sequencing and Spheres. I'd rather just have better cards. Welder is the card in the main. It has its uses against other blue decks but Flusterstorm is generally better. Where it's not better, like against Jace, Izzet Charm largely shores that up.

I completely agree with you about Vault-Key. It was late last night and I was just trying to build a discussion so I brainstormed a quick deck that I would play in a tournament. I woke up and thought the exact same thing. It's too much work with Izzet Charm and Goblin Welder. I think we need immediately impactful cards that work on their own.

Regarding Burning Wish, I'm not trying to be cute with the card and I've had a lot of success with it in the past. I'd want a Tendrils for the mirror so I can initiate a counter war with some spell then generate mana and cards with Welder tricks into a natural Tendrils. It's really easy with Top and fetches along with Welder to build that kind of scenario. I also want access to be single most powerful cards ever printed against creature strategies, Pyroclasm and Empty the Warrens, without having to actually play those cards in the main. I'd also have access to Shattering Spree among other options.

There's definitely a chance. If I can get 4 guys to go, I'll be there.

I do a lot of testing against Workshop decks and I've found the most reliable way for me to keep in the game is to play as many Moxes as I can.  That said, is Null Rod worth a spot in a Workshop deck's 75?  I know it's miserable against everything but blue decks but based on recent results, blue decks are back on the rise and maybe Shops need something to level out the field again.

I was looking at Terra Nova recently and really appreciated the idea of 8 manlands with a deck full of lock pieces.  I remember testing against decks with artifacts that cost more than 5 and there being problems semi-regularly casting those spells.  Is a deck with 4 Lodestone, 8 manlands, 8 Spheres, 4 Chalice, 4 Null Rod and 4 Tangle Wire a thing?  For reference, this is Terra Nova:

4 Dismember
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Pearl
1 Sol Ring
4 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Sphere of Resistance
4 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Sculpting Steel
1 Trinisphere
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Strip Mine
1 Tolarian Academy
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Mishra’s Factory
4 Mishra’s Workshop
4 Mutavault
4 Wasteland

SB:

3 Tormod’s Crypt
4 Grafdigger’s Cage
3 Null Rod
2 Ghost Quarter
3 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale

In my mind, the four slots to go are the two Sculpting Steels, a Dismember and the Trinisphere.

I think a Dismember would have to go because you would only have Ancient Tomb, the 8 manlands and Tolarian Academy to play it with.  With so few ways to play the card if you weren't able to tap Moxes for mana and the cost to your life total, it seems too hard to play a full playset.

The other three slots are the two Sculpting Steels and the Trinisphere.  They're similar in function to Null Rod except when Sculpting Steel copies Lodestone Golem, they constrict a player's ability to use their mana.  I use to disagree with people that said claimed Trinisphere wasn't very good in Shops but lately I've really been noting that it does very little outside the first turn.  The problem is the effect isn't cumulative with Spheres so it's not very hard to play around Trinisphere with a couple Moxes in play.  Null Rod is more complimentary to Spheres than Trinisphere and neither are good in the mirror so it's a wash.

Sculpting Steels seem to usually copy Spheres because all you have to do with this deck (I'm simplifying) is cast a million Spheres and attack with manlands.  I think Null Rod may be better at constricting mana in combination with the other lock pieces.  You do lose some versatility against non-blue decks but not a great deal. 

Is playing Null Rod something a Workshop deck wants to be doing right now?

First off, don't rip me a new one for such an untuned list.  It's just a starting point, I just made the list up and it's 1:53 am right now.  That said, some inclusions and exclusions may seem odd.  

Deep Analysis: You can pitch it to Izzet Charm and Thirst for Knowledge, include it in a "value" Gifts pile and use it as a super draw spell in top deck mode.  I wanted to include several things I would actively want to discard to generate increasing advantage as the game went long.  

Flusterstorm: This deck is far more color intensive than Slaver decks were in the past.  We also need to live through the early game against the blue decks geared for the blue mirror.  Flusterstorm helps us do that until our advantage engines kick in and take over the game.

Mana Drain: There's only one because two blue mana isn't that important to get to in this deck and I haven't believed it's been a great card for years.  Against Shops, there's a good chance you'll never had a good opportunity to cast it and against Dredge, they'll Therapy it out of your hand before it's ever a factor.  It was a nice way of transitioning from a stabilized board into a dominant board in the past but since the mana curve is lower in this deck than old Slaver decks, that's not as important.  We don't need colorless mana to cast Izzet Charm and there's only a handful of cards that seriously benefit from the mana boost.  It is nice to have available once you've stabilized though.

Mystical Tutor: I don't like this card in grindy blue against the mirror.  The loss of card advantage could be made up for with speed if you had a Top in play to draw it immediately but I think that effect isn't necessary.  We're already struggling to generate card advantage because of Izzet Charm and there is no Jace to play in the midgame to catch us back up.  I don't think we need a disadvantage tutor for those reasons.

Burning Wish: In my experience playing Goblin Welder, if you get to the late game with this card in play, it generated massive amounts of mana and card advantage so it's not hard to storm out with a Will or chaining draw spells.  Having Tendrils available is sometimes nice.  Burning Wish doesn't create card disadvantage and the selection it provides can be on par with Demonic Tutor.  

Myr Battlesphere: Blightsteel Colossus doesn't combo well with discard effects and can be particularly vulnerable to Phyrexian Metamorph and Swords to Plowshares, a card that seems to see increasing amounts of play every month.  It's a dream Tinker target against Shops as it handily defeats Tangle Wire and immediately changes the board dynamic.  It's also very strong against Fish.  Jace can't hope to bounce it and live another turn, either.  It does lack the speed Blightsteel provides against Dredge but the best way to beat Dredge isn't usually Tinker into Colossus anyway.  

I hope this sparks some discussion.  I look forward to seeing where you guys take the idea.

In an effort to get some activity going on the forums, I want to start brainstorming some ideas in public.  I want to see what the best Izzet Charm deck TMD can come up with is.  It hasn't been showing up in many top 8s so there should be plenty to talk about if it is a worthwhile card to build around.  Regardless, it should make for an interesting discussion.  Izzet Charm has three modes.  One, it can counter a non-creature spell unless that spell's controller pays two colorless mana; two, it deals two damage to target creature; three, draw two then discard two cards.  Is Izzet Charm worth building around? 

For starters, two of its modes are lackluster in Vintage.  The two damage is okay but it doesn't kill the number one target in Vintage right now, Lodestone Golem.  It does kill Dark Confidant, Snapcaster Mage, most fish creatures, Goblin Welder, Phyrexian Revoker, Mishra's Factory/Mutavault if there isn't an additional Mishra's Factory to pump it and so on.  The counter ability is pretty poor against everything but Dredge postboard to protect your graveyard hate.  Spell Pierce hasn't been very impressive since Workshops have essentially forced most decks in the format to load up on extra mana to combat them.  This is a slower Spell Pierce.

On the plus side, there's some synergy with Goblin Welder and making Goblin Welder work in the current format is very appealing since it allows you to combat Workshops very effectively.  What it doesn't do is potentially generate card advantage in blue mirrors like Thirst for Knowledge did in the past.  In most matchups, that's fine but being unable to maintain a full grip in blue mirrors can lead to a quick loss. 

Off the bat, I think we can conclude that we need to make the draw/discard ability powerful in order to make up for the deficiencies in the other two modes.  What they lack in efficiency, the other two modes may make up for in versatility if we can make the 'Looter' ability good.  We need to make Izzet Charm a must counter threat so, in the blue mirror, it's not just a spell they can let resolve.  We need to make Izzet Charm generate more value than the counter they would use on it is worth.

Does that mean we need to play 4 Goblin Welder?  How many artifacts are necessary to make this strategy robust?  What artifacts should we be playing to weld in?  Is a Goblin Welder strategy even the best?

Just to provide a starting point for this discussion, here's a list off the top of my head with some explanations afterwards:

1 Black Lotus
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sol Ring
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Tolarian Academy
3 Island
1 Mountain
4 Volcanic Island
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Polluted Delta
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Flooded Strand

4 Goblin Welder
4 Izzet Charm
1 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Gifts Ungiven
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Deep Analysis
1 Brainstorm
1 Ponder
2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Burning Wish
1 Tinker
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Time Walk

1 Myr Battlesphere
1 Time Vault
1 Voltaic Key

1 Nihil Spellbomb
4 Force of Will
4 Flusterstorm
1 Mana Drain