Thanks Wild, sorry for the mis hap in protocol.  Its Damned if you Damned if you don't.  I normally just post "what do you think about this card for this deck?"  the response is normally what is the deck list, so I thought I would post the question, then immediately post the deck.

I don't disagree it screams for drains.

The deck is supposed to win    (LOL).  The deck is supposed to dominate control decks by being superior in the counter match up, and then able to deal with there threats; Tendrils - Stifle, DarkSteel Col - swords.  2nd it should be able to weather the weenie matchup - mostly with disk.  The deck counters, deals with threats efficiently and with wishes deals with all decks.

*edit*

to my decklist, I would like to add 3 teferi's response main and 1 board -2 Misdirections, -1 twin cast. 

Also if you notice with out drains I took out Fact or Fiction, is there another draw card to play if drains go in or should I with standstill's?

Thanks for a quick reply.

HOWDY!

I am trying to build a deck vs the MetaGame; Control Slaver, TPS, etc... (you can help define the meta if you wish).  Be patient in my deck construction, be critical but please be nice.
 
4 Counterspell (mana drain???)
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 TwinCast
4 StandStill
3 Cunning Wish
2 Misdirection
2 Stifle
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Mystical Tutor
 
4 Nev Disk
 
3 Swords
 
4 Mishra's Factory
2 Faerie Conclave (4 maybe?)
4 Flooded strand
4 Volcanic Islands
3 Tundra
2 Islands
1 Plains

1 Lotus Petal
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Ruby

BOARD

4 Red Elem Blast
1 Pyro Blast
1 Stifle
1 Swords
1 Misdirection
1 Orim Chant
3 Pyroclasm
1 Blue Elem
1 Hurkyls recall

There you go, tear it apart, thanks in advance for the help!

Wow, I had no idea that's how it got its name, thanks.  No the next question is if it is good, what is it bad against?  Like you said earlier landstill, but then I think that would be a bad matchup period.  I am afraid of black/red bloody suicide, unless I get an early angel.

Thanks again.

I know everybody is going eva, eba, or whatever they call it, 2 exalted angels and 2 decree of Justice in main.  Is this enough for keeper to 'fly' over the madness tech?  I believe so, 2 angels main should be more than enough to do it, however does it hurt the deck in other matchups?

I honestly don't know, which is why I am here to ask.  I play one angel in the board and the 2 decree's in the main with very little troubles except Madness.  Also with the food chain's goblin, it will definitely slow 'em down.  Let me know what you think.

Well what about mutilate, since it kills creatures and you will hardly ever have creatures.  Red is stronger than black, for sure, but it may work, I hate duress against my keeper deck so it will rock keeper.  Also you may want to try powder keg, again their creatures and not yours will go away.

Anyways good luck.

Should I assume this will effectively give me infinite mana?  Also if it does can I Stroke of Genius my opponent during my upkeep for the win?  And if not, can I cycle my decree of justice?  Thanks.

Wow, humility is some good.  If I actually put in humility, should I take out the morphling.  I am scared of mud and with the fore-mentioned info humility seems pretty good.  Especially if they 'kill' with Karn and friends.

How did the factories do for you?  Also what about the eternal dragon you used any good?

The final player with keeper, do you remember his kill?  Was there anything obvious he was playing?  Can you break down his deck basically.

Thanks and congrats on a well played (except for 1 hind sight play) tournament.  I will get to a tournament next wed. and hopefully will post my results.  Thanks again.

Yes I know a silly thread, but one that seemed to draw some attention, I just like to give people credit for it.  Congrats leviat.

And yes you can end this if you like, I was just curious, I would ask about Morphling but better I don't.

Thanks again guys.

I keep hearing this humility thing, I really don't disagree, but for some reason my deck stalls out against the rush and I really don't want to take 'ANY' damage.  However there is a local tourny I may have to try humility out.

Wow, trade routes, what in the world do I say to that, 'the card sucks'; nope it definitely rocks vs wasteland which everybody plays, 'it's mediocre'; nope it will either always save my land or draw a card, How about 'it rocks' but what do I take out for it?

I usually never have 'trouble' getting the combo off, I just usually kill with something else.  Some tog decks are packing the misdirections, that is why I haven't put an emphasis on 'combo' just more of a backup plan.  That is also why I haven't been putting Mind Twist in.

Nice Board also, you really thought that out, compost, I love that card, but I decided I wasn't playing green    .

On the prior post 'Maze of Ith' I love that card, should I play it main, or just board it.  I could simply remove a land (i have 29 mana sources), let me know what you think?

Nice avatar, also do you know when that might have been said, It would rock if I could find it, thanks.

I am not trying to get anyone to flame me or the forum, but I put up a post on Star City <a href="http://get-faster.com?go=games" onmouseover="window.status = 'goto: games';return 1" onmouseout="window.status=''">Games</a>...

Keeper Combo; Decree of Justice?
      #54699 - Sun Jul 27 2003 09:15 AM  
 
Is there anyone who thought of it before that or at least agreed with me then?

I agree w/too much mana, how about -1 fetchland, and add Vamp tutor, then add enlighten tutor to board.  That should help feed my combo.

I love humility, but I still play morphling and only 1 decree.  If I take out the kegs, what should I add?

Thanks for replying.

Quite honestly that is the best reply I have seen in awhile.  Thank you, thank you, thank you for 'decent' board choices.  I still think dis blow is technically better (I get a lot of land in play, so the 1 extra isn't too big of a deal) than disenchant.

Drawing; well I believe the 4xBrainstorms w/5xfetchlands is plenty to find answers, also I really hate removing cards from my graveyard, especially if there aren't any there.  But I agree I would like more drawing.  

Mind twist and Vamp Tutor.  I was hoping somebody would forget them actually, if I could make my deck 63....  I am indecisive, I want to take a fetchland out and add 'Mind twist', I also want to take a brainstorm out and add Vampiric Tutor, I totally agree it should go in Main, but it is hard to lose the drawing power.  What do you think, should I drop the fetch and brainstorm?  Thanks again for replying.

First off not to be 'too' hard nosed, but the main build is there, I know 2 skeletal scryings, 3 maindeck decrees, stifle main, who is 'morphling, etc... they are good and some not so good.  But what I need help with is the board, what really should I look out for? The next question you ask is what is the environment? This month it will be more casual type 2 players, and next month hard core type 1 players. So I need something for a bit of both, preferbly the hard core players.


Artifact (1)

1xZuran Orb

Black (2)

1xDemonic Tutor
1xYawgmoth's Will

Blue (22)

4xMana Drain
4xForce of Will
4xBrainstorm
2xCunning Wish
1xAncestral Recall
1xTimeWalk
1xMystical Tutor
1xFact or Fiction
1xMorphling
1xPower Artifact
1xBraingeyser
1xFuture Sight

Gold (1)

1xFire/Ice

Red (1)

1xViashino heretic

White (5)

2xSwords to Plowshares
1xBalance
1xMoat
1xDecree of Justice

'Mana' (29)

6xSoLoMo (no Emerald)
5xFetch Lands(3 flooded strand, 2 polluted delta)
4xTundra
3xVolcanic Island
3xUnderground Sea
3xWasteland (my favorite)
1xIsland
1xTolarian Academy
1xStrip Mine
1xLibrary of Alexandria
1xGrim Monolith

Board (HELP  )

3xRed Elemental Blast
1xShattering Pulse
1xRack and ruin
1xBlue elemental Blast
1xStifle
1xStroke of Genius (kill condition)
1xSwords to Plowshares
1xDismantling Blow
1xCircle of protection; Red
2xPowder Keg
1xVampiric Tutor
1xEbony Charm

The most common comment I get is the deck is too spread out, I should focus on decree's or the combo.  While I don't necessarily disagree this deck works to my skills (or lack thereof) and surprises pretty much everybody.  Besides its 'keeper', 'the deck', 'the restricted list', 'Combo Keeper' all rolled into one "ready for anything" deck.

Controversial choices;
1. Viashino Heretic.  3 casting cost, hits all artifacts, and deals damage.  Since it is keeper it is also a kill card and can block most weenie's.
2. Zuran orb.  Honestly I had; fastbond/future sight/zuran orb, that engine never really worked.  But the life gain is huge against Mono-Red and weenie beats, allowing me to set up control.
3. Moat.  Yes moat is counter productive with the decree, however Suicide black and mono-red (yes I fear this deck) is totally neutered.  I hear it helps against TOG.
4. No main deck Gorilla shaman.  Unless someone drops all moxes early (then I probably lose anyways) he knocks em out one by one.  Hey so does my Heretic.
5. Combo.  I like it, I can't explain it too much its just that I like knowing no matter what I have a chance.  This should also explain the main deck Braingeyser (for the kill), and Stroke of Genius in the board (for the kill).

Board; Except for the Stroke it is pretty straightforward, I really hate the kegs, but they seem to work fairly well.  In fact I actually copied the sideboard from another deck, adding stroke and stifle.  I also would like more rack and ruin's, and possibly graveyard hate.

   I appreciate 'ALL' comments on this deck, but I am really requesting help on the Board.  Let me know what you think.

First thank you for all your comments, I really thought I would get more support     oh well.  Here are some random answers, please find more questions,  you might actually change my mind.  Remember Bazaar of Baghdad = bob, and Mishra's Workshop = MW

1. Restrict Mana Drain? there is only one deck that uses mana drain, Mishra's at least 3 dominating decks.

2. Answer my own question?  No I am asking the forum.

3. Better decks? My humble opinion, there is no better deck than one that uses 4xMW.

4. Not distorting the meta/haven't won a tournament?  I don't know how hardcore type 1 people you must be to even say this?  follow this link  http://www.morphling.de/coverages/top8decks.php?id=92   1st place, 4xMW, 2nd place 4xbob, 4th place 4xbob

follow this link  http://www.morphling.de/coverages/top8decks.php?id=91
1st place, 4xMW, 2nd place, 4xMW, 3rd, 4xMW.

Not to beat a horse to death, but these are 'real' tourney's played with power against power, now add trinisphere, WOW!  Now I realize the links I provided show some keeper decks winning ( :lol: ) a few other tourney's, but not the most recent ones.  Is there a report that shows 4xMW missing from a top 3 tourney (recently)?  Thanks again for the input

  Honestly, Mishra's workshop make me sick.  I play keeper (aka, the deck, the restricted list, etc...) so any deck that uses the workshop(tnt, mud, etc...)gives me fits.  So my first answer would be yes, it is enough to restrict workshop.  

However it alone isn't enough to get the workshop restricted.  I think that trinisphere is the straw that broke the camels back.  How can anybody that works for DCI not agree that workshop is 'TOO' powerful.  1st turn sphere of resistance, tangle wire, smokestack (wow this card is amazing), metalworker, etc...the list goes on.  Now add trinisphere, it is time to restrict the ever powerful workshop.

Please don't   flame me saying that I want a more powerful deck than mine to get neutered so 'I' can win.  Workshop obviously hurts all deck types, parfait, suicide, mono-red (that deck kills me too....).  Come up with better argument please.

As a side note, the restriction of bazaar of baghdad is also needed.

In closing, what other arguments (for or against) can you think of to restrict 'MISHRA'S WORKSHOP' and 'BAZAAR OF BAGHDAD' ?

Thanks,

metabubbles

Type 1 TGG, 1st place report.

Finally a type 1 tourney locally, St Louis, MO. (By the way I don't write too many reports so don't flame me too much, thanks.) 'The Deck' literally and figuratively speaking;

Artifact

1xZuran Orb

Black

1xDemonic Tutor
1xYawgmoth's Will

Blue

4xMana Drain
4xForce of Will
3xBrainstorm
2xCunning Wish
1xAncestral Recall
1xTimeWalk
1xMystical Tutor
1xFact or Fiction
1xMorphling
1xPower Artifact
1xBraingeyser

Gold

1xFire/Ice

Green

1xFastbond

Red

1xViashino heretic

White

2xSwords to Plowshares
1xBalance
1xMoat
1xDecree of Justice

'Mana'

7xSoLoMo (solring, lotus, moxes)
4xTundra
4xFetch Lands(2 flooded strand, 2 polluted delta)
3xVolcanic Island
3xUnderground Sea
3xWasteland (my favorite)
1xTropical Island
1xIsland
1xTolarian Academy
1xStrip Mine
1xLibrary of Alexandria
1xGrim Monolith (win condition...)

Board

Red

3xRed Elemental Blast
1xShattering Pulse
1xRack and ruin
1xBlue elemental Blast
1xStifle
1xStroke of Genius (kill condition)
1xSwords to Plowshares
1xDismantling Blow
1xCircle of protection; Red
2xPowder Keg
1xVampiric Tutor
1xEbony Charm




The ideas are generated of many decks I have seen, keeper, combo keeper, 5-color, well you get the idea. Before I start in about the actual tourney I want to make a few comments about the deck itself.

I made a 'HUGE' mistake by forgetting future sight, the zuran orb, fastbond, future sight thing was supposed to be huge, but in fact I never played fastbond, because of the lack of Future Sight. Overall I like the deck, but would like some feedback, PLEASE.

1st Rd....Bye...crap, Hardees, and scouting, I see psychatog, underworld dreams, psychic venom, red/green elves, megrim, mono-red, worldgorger dragon, keeper, sliverqueen, and I forget the last
deck (11 total players, nice start).

2nd Rd...Leonard, I believe this to be the psychic venom, relic bane, Icy manipulator deck, first game was so close. I get Morphling out for 3 hits, but the enchantment damage was too much. Game 2, I beleive I board the blasts and kegs, no match, he gets wastelanded so much and in fact he was using the new 'artifact' lands, and city of brass land that you sack if you have no artifacts in play. I waste the artifact land, the other land leaves, and I slowing kill w/morphling....Game 3 Much more of a match, I drop the Heretic early and beat down, he even complains that if he loses to the 'Super' mox monkey....blah, blah, LOL. I dismantling blow, draw 2 cards and hold the counters, nice match. This guy was Awesome to play with by the way.

2-0 (bye, 2-1 game)

3rd Rd...Aaron (sp?) Leonard's friend with the keeper deck with serra angel, 4 birds, 4 bolts, 1 fireball. Not many notes on the first game, but it was quick, I got the combo (Grim monolith/power artifact infinite mana) and it was over. Game 2, unfortunately I get a timely mana drain into morphling early, he tries to swords it, I tap blue make him untargettable and see the frown. (note; before the match he told me I should play Serra, much more efficient, true, but I argued the untargetable ability, and to his dismay he found out what I meant). Guess what he is ready for him from here on out. He gets the underworld dreams out, and timetwister for the win, I luckily have a red elemental blast. He shows me the wheel of fortune in hand and asked if I could have stopped it, I had a force in hand so I could have, but I finally got to use my board against him. He bolts me and fireball's me a bit, but with morphling in control I win with 7 life left.

3-0 (bye, 2-1, & 2-0 <a href="http://get-certified.net?go=games" onmouseover="window.status = 'goto: games';return 1" onmouseout="window.status=''">games</a>)

Top 8...WHAT? You mean out of 11 people they have top 8. What this really means is that the only person in the tourney that usually beats me is if I am ranked 1 and he is 8 (or she). But hey, this is type 1, it is hard to find a match, and any game would be fun.

David...this was the deck I was so ready for, I thought. Worldgorger combo, instead of countering the all important buried alive I stop the dance of the dead enchantment. I lose to Duress and dance. OUCH! Game 2, now if a game is to be remembered it was this one. I board in the "3rd" swords, the ebony charm, stifle and stroke. Totally ready, he side's out the combo and gets the agressive negator etc...He dance of the dead my MORPHLING, I strip and waste all his blue to stop the untargetble stuff. I have 4 health after he swings, and then he drops NEGATOR. I draw power artifact, What!!! Now I have infinite mana, I almost swords the morphling, but after I realized what I had, I played the Power Artifact, and braingeyser for the win, WOW! Game 3...I leave most everything in, since swords hurts the agressive deck still. I go 2nd, I get library out and control all day long. He gets me to 9, but I hold for the win, go morphling. Tough match, no 'expensive' cards this kid can play, it doesn't matter what cards he has, hope I don't have to play him again.

4-0 (Bye, 2-1, 2-0, 2-1 <a href="http://get-certified.net?go=games" onmouseover="window.status = 'goto: games';return 1" onmouseout="window.status=''">games</a>)

Kevin...AKA...Baghdad (not sure why, I didn't ask) Mono-Red, signed up for type 2, and during our match was supposed to be playing david in the other tournament, no pressure on him, right? Game 1, mulligan, anytime a mono-red mulligans its all good and it was. Red got me to 16 first game, not much hope. Game 2 mulligan 2x, wow, I am lucky today, and in fact I get my COP; Rep and after a few turns he decides best to play type two, yea.

5-0 (Bye, 2-1, 2-0, 2-1, 2-0 <a href="http://go-all.com?go=games" onmouseover="window.status = 'goto: games';return 1" onmouseout="window.status=''">games</a>)

FINALS!!!

Aaron, the keeper guy, really fun to talk to and simply just loves to play. I offer the draw (even though I won in swiss, I know if I don't offer the draw the karma comes back to kick me in the butt). He is like no way, I am here to play not win an extra $8.00 guaranteed, or something like that. I am very happy, since I beat him earlier, and I had the bye, so I get to actually play the game.

Game 1...Library of Alexandria first turn for him, and I went 1st. I have 3 wastes, I am using my sac lands, brainstorms etc... but to no avail I could never draw one. Wow Card advantage wins, don't let anyone tell you otherwise. Shortly thereafter he throws down Underworld dreams. I get zuran orb out, and play balance he counters. I go for like 6 turns, and gets the yawgmoths will for the balance again, I sack all my lands and we go draw go, he drops land like he was holding them the whole time he finally timetwister's for the kill, AAaarrrrggggghhhhhh..!!!

Game 2...I go first again, whoops, gotta mulligan, CRAP! However I get to draw cards unmolested, he couldn't pay to get a counter spell, I finally get to see a wasteland 2 turns after the throws down Library again. Game breaks when I braingeyser for 8 cards after he hard casts a force of will on my 'cycling' part of the decree for 3 soldiers. We get a judge and explain not part of the casting cost, I draw and another tough lesson learned. Now he is in trouble, I have the heretic out and he cast's mirror universe (this dude had some $cards$)he is at 8 I am at 16, I say okay. I use the heretics ability to destroy the artifact mirror universe and also deal 6 damage to him, OUCH! I swing with 3 soldiers and we go to game 3.

Game 3...He finally mulligans, and gets mana screwed, I am drawing like crazy and wastelanding everything, I think at one point he had 1 tundra in play. I think I even yawgmoths willed for another wasteland, it was not a pretty sight, wow. Nice game, but I win 2-1.

6-0 (bye, 2-1, 2-0, 2-1, 2-0, 2-1 <a href="http://0-2u.com?go=games" onmouseover="window.status = 'goto: games';return 1" onmouseout="window.status=''">games</a>)


--------------------
Chad Daugherty
(Bubbles; Metagames, life in General)
(Metabubbles; TheManaDrain.com, Starcitygames, Ebay)