Any changes you'd make to the deck for playing it on MTGO? I've played a lot of UR delver both online and in a live tourney this week, but I'd be interested in trying out this version.

Thanks for the helpful replies. I played a bit of Long when pitch long was new, so that's a possibility. How has Fish been doing lately? Is there a standard fish build? I saw DAve feinstein's list from waterbury but it's a bit old. The deck I've had the most success with has been the old non-bob bomberman. Also, the pitch long you posted looks pretty nice. Is UBr the standard for Long now? I guess more than anything I'll just pick what I should have the most fun with, and since I haven't played in a while, I can still have fun even if I don't do well

Would you care to elaborate on why fastbond isn't good in a deck that plays 4 gush?

I used to play a bit of vintage, but haven't kept up to date in around 9 months. I recognized all the decks from the January Waterbury, but I haven't played in the current metagame. I understand Flash Decks and Ichorid decks are pretty popular. What should I play if I have very little time to playtest, and there is a tourney 2 days away? I don't have any of the new cards, so the new ichorid and probably the flash decks are out,even with the 10 proxy rule. I have the power, but I don't feel like trading for the new rares to get my deck in 10-proxy range. I also probably can't build stax. I have all the cards for the old Slaver, Gifts, Oath, fish, long, Bomberman etc decks. Which of the more veteren decks would be best in the current meta, with not a lot of time for playtesting? My top three choices would be Oath, Bomberman, and bomberman with Bob and Jotun Grunt. Would these be okay choices? Thanks in advance.

I'm not much of a vintage player, as my much maligned Gifts thread proves, and I don't have a lot of time to devote to playtesting vintage. Because of that, how do these three fish decks compare? All 3 have done fine, but they have many different cards. I can see the manabase of the UW is very nice, the UWB (top 8 list from worlds) seems to have the best card power, and the URBana seems to have the best disruption. Which of these 3 decks do the best in an open field? Also, which might be best for a casual vintage player that doesn't know the ins and outs of the format? Or should I just play Oath? I realize there is no substitute for playtesting, and I have done some of that, but there is a tourney tommorow which I thought was a week away and that I'm going to play at. Any thoughts on these fish decks would be much appreciated, thanks
Kurt Fruth

   I am not an accomplished Vintage player. I'm a player with moderate PTQ success, in both Constructed and Limited, but I've never been a serious Vintage player. It is from that perspective that I write this. The question is this: Is Gifts Ungiven too skill-based to be un-restricted?
   I recently attended a Vintage Tournament at RIW in Detroit. A player I know, who is a very accomplished Fish player, but also maintains that he isn't a Vintage player, was piloting gifts for the first time at an important tourney. He struggled a bit with the deck, and although I assumed his 3-3 record was more a result of bad luck than play errors, he was commenting on how many mistakes he had made. After the tourney, he and I played some games, first with my Bomberman deck against gifts, then later he on Burning Slaver and me on Gifts. Each of us had an accomplished gifts player watch us play, and give us advice. Almost all the mistakes we made, and by mistake I mean when the accomplished player disagreed with our play, had to do with Gifts Ungiven. The myriad of options that are available with this card have been discussed many times elsewhere, so I won't go into that. My concern is that this card may be too skill-intensive to be healthy for the format.
   Magic has always been a game about both skill and luck. Skill will usually win out, but the reason people keep going to Grand Prixs, PTQs, State championships, and even prereleases, is that they feel they have the chance to win if they catch some lucky breaks. If magic were 100% skill, then normal players, even some pro-tour level players, would never beat Antoine Ruel. They need to get lucky to do so. But that is the beauty of the game. I know that I have a chance to win every tournament I go to if I can catch a few breaks. I wouldn't go if I knew I didn't have a chance to win. Very rarely, if ever, do I feel like I'm the best player at a tournament, but I always feel like I have a chance to win. This is the same reason people play poker. They know they aren't as good as Phil Hellmuth or Doyle Brunson, but they know that in poker, anyone has a chance to win if they catch a very lucky run of cards. Antoine Ruel doesn't win every pro tour, just like Phil Hellmuth doesn't win every poker tournament. No one would play poker if the best players always won. The same is true for Magic.
   That brings us to possibly the most skill-intensive card in Magic, and that is Gifts Ungiven. The reason I feel it is more skill-intensive that something like Brainstorm, Duress, Meddling Mage, or Cabal Therapy is that it involves both the player casting Gifts and his or her opponent. With no other card will the difference in skill be so apparent and exploitable as it is with this one. The greater burden of skill probably resides with the caster, but even someone that isn't a good Gifts player, and has chosen to pilot an easier deck, is faced with very tough decisions regarding this card. There is no escaping Gifts at a major Vintage tournament.
   I don't mean to cheapen skill in Vintage, or to say that the more prepared and more skilled players don't deserve to win the most, but in order for the format to expand its player base, we need it to be somewhat friendly to new and casual players. Vintage is by far the least friendly format when it comes to recruiting new players. If you take ten good players, and have them play a set of matches against good players from Vintage, Extended, limited, Standard, and Legacy, I'm willing to bet that almost across the board the players will have the worst record in Vintage. It is simply a monstrous and intimidating format. And Gifts Ungiven is one of the primary culprits.
   When making the decision the restrict gifts or not, we need to ask the question, "Is there such a thing as being too skill intensive when it comes to a Magic card?" For many the answer is no. They are the skilled Gifts pilots with hundreds of hours playing the deck, and playing against the deck. For some, the answer is yes. They are the players that haven't the aptitude with gifts, and can be found piloting Oath, Fish, or Goblins because they are easier for a new player to win with. I believe restricting the card would balance things out a bit. The skilled player would still be able to achieve an advantage with their single copy, but the less-experienced player wouldn't be blown out of the water by his superior opponent because of multiple gifts every game.
   I would like to hear the thoughts of players that play gifts and also those that don't. Does this card deserve restriction? Also, does my arguement of it being too skill-intensive have any merit, or is it better to be giving more advantage to the skilled player? Thanks for reading, and again, any feedback is appreciated.
Kurt Fruth

Nice report and good job at the tourney. It was fun watching you bash face with Negators all day, rather than doing stupid broken stuff like tendrils off Will. Hopefully we can play again soon at one of the Weekly Saturday tournies.

Hey Brian, I sent you an email about the mana drain. I checked my cards for any off color sleeves and didn't find any. It sucks that you are missing a card, I know what thats like. Hopefully someone found it in the play area, and can turn it in. As far as I know the people in there after the tourney were all regulars so I would like to think they would turn it in if they knew it was yours.

I'm building this as a semi-casual deck for a weekly tournament. The tourney is mostly average to less than average players in the area. I'm not building it as a high caliber deck for power tournaments. The metagame is usually a few few fish decks, maybe a stax deck here and there, a gifts deck or two, and of all things, two-land belcher. It is also ten-proxy. The idea actually started after a conversation I had with one of the top vintage players in the area. We were debating which creature was the most powerful of all time. He claimed it was Goblin Welder, because it's so good in Vintage, while I argued for Dark Confidant, because it's good in every format. I started to think about how I could build a deck that utilized both. I've play tested a bit, but I probably won't have the chance to get too many games in before the next weekly tourney. Let me know if this deck has any potential. I also realize that the better deck would just be to go the full Control Slaver route, but I want something different. Perhaps there is something like this out there already, but I haven't followed Vintage closely so I've missed any deck that hasn't been one of the main threats in the format. I haven't really developed a sideboard yet, but it will for sure have several red blasts, Energy Flux, some creature kill in the form of Darkblast, Dark, or Fire/ice, as well as possibly Chalice (not in the main deck because I have so many 0 cost artis). Any sideboard suggestions would be nice. If its a hopeless deck just let me know, or if you see any changes that would work. Thanks for looking

7 SoLoMoxen
1 Mana Crypt
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mana Vault
1 Memory Jar
1 Duplicant
2 Crucible of Worlds
1 Mindslaver
1 Triskelion
4 Thirst for Knowledge
4 Brainstorm
1 Tinker
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
4 Dark Confidant
4 Duress
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
2 Gorilla Shaman
4 Goblin Welder
3 Bloodstained Mire
2 Polluted Delta
3 Wasteland
1 Strip mine
2 Underground Sea
1 Badlands
1 Volcanic Island
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Mountain
1 Island
1 Swamp

   This was a very nice tournament. The skill level in vintage is by no means casual, but I don't feel the pressure to win in Vintage like I do if I'm at a PTQ, even if the prize is a Black Lotus.
   And I feel your pain on the tiebreaker thing. Finishing 9th at this tourney after finishing 9th at states the day before was a tough pill to swallow.