Voted for you man!  Good luck!!

To all Eternal players:  A vote for Steve is a vote for Vintage and Legacy.  I know that The Magic Show is entertaining, but we need to pick the best representative of the format we love, and that is Steve.

Actually, Leyline doesn't hurt as much as you might think.  Sure, it shuts down the main combo in the deck, but the rest of my combo peices are still good without Crucible.  I can use a combo of Gush/Exploration (or Fastbond)/Horn of Greed to generate card advantage and win with either the Vinelasher Kudzu or the Tinker-Titan combo.  It works better than you might think.  Just remember: the good thing about this deck is that shutting off one or two combo peices doesn't hurt as much as it should, because these cards do things that are strong on their own.  (Except maybe Horn of Greed- without Crucibles or Exploration/Fastbond this card, well, sucks)
Nonetheless, I feel like I should include some bounce in the main, especially since I can fetch them with Merchant Scroll now.  I need to do a little more testing first, but I think I can safely remove Regrowth for bounce.  I was thinking Echoing Truth...

First, to Flying Men:  I would think that if the first thing you wanted to do in a game is fetch Ancestral with Scroll, you should include four Scrolls.  Did you just mulligan until you had scroll?  Or did you use another tutor to fetch Ancestral?

To all:  I think that the reaction to this deck is a little over the top.  The way everyone responds to this post like it is the most important thing ever is not just caused by Steven's arrogance, I think it is also because we have come to expect him to carry most of the major innovations in the format.  Maybe this is just me, but since Steven is the only consistent, good author of Vintage articles, it seems like he should turn the world upside down with each new decklist.  Sometimes he does, and sometimes the changes are more subtle.  That's what has happened here.

I don't think it is right to complain that this deck isn't different enough from xxxx (TPS, Rit Gifts, etc).  Most Vintage decks of this nature share at least 75% of the same cards.  You didn't hear anyone complain that Gifts was the same thing as Control Slaver, or that Long and TPS are similar.  It is because of the power level of these cards.  We are reaching an age where there are three possible deck configurations:

1. Decks that use the most powerful cards they can: Long, Gifts, Slaver, TPS, etc.
2. Hate decks: Fish, Stax, TMWA
3. Decks with insane engines and a lot of synergy, but don't quite fit #1: Ichorid (and new decks could possibly be added to this at any time).

I think that if you have a problem with Meandeck's "lack of originality," that means you have a problem with the above structure of the format.  If that is the case, maybe you should play Legacy.

StarOrc: Sorry, I missed Fastbond when I typed the list out the first time.  It has 59 cards.  Corrected.  As for the suggestions, Strip Mine is an obvious that I missed, that has now been added to the SB.  I like the idea of including Merchant Scroll.  I agree that two is a good number to start with: -1 Zuran Orb, -1 Island, +2 Merchant Scroll.  I'm not ready to give up Tinker as of yet, it is great at fetching a combo peice, and Titan acts as both a win condition and a mini-Armageddon (which is just awesome here). 

senpai: Living Wish is amazing, especially with the addition of Strip Mine.  I can fetch up either a win condition (B Ring), a clock (Kudzu), or disruption (Strip Mine).  I've played many decks with Wishes in them, but never have I been so excited about drawing one as with this deck.  As for the Kudzu's main deck, first, I get the Kudzu just about as often as I need it (which is not every game) with the Wishes, and have plenty of mana to play it.  The problem with including it main deck is that I would have to cut something, and I am already a little light on disruption and wouldn't want to remove any more combo peices.

I'll do some more testing, but listed above is the deck as I am currently playing it.  Glad you like it, and keep the comments coming!!  Has anyone else been testing this (or something similar)?  If so, what have you found?

Hello there!!  Once again it is time for me to come up with some crazy idea that might be sub-par as a tourney deck, but sure is fun.  You all have been really helpful so far (and some of my ideas weren't so good...), so here goes!!  (This is what I would call an early version of the deck, it has only had minor tweaks since my first idea).

TurboLand V1.0
4 Exploration
3 Horn of Greed
3 Crucible of Worlds
2 Zuran Orb
4 Gush
4 Brainstorm
3 Merchant Scroll
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Living Wish
1 Sundering Titan
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Tinker
1 Fastbond
1 Regrowth
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Sapphire
3 Polluted Delta
2 Flooded Strand
4 Tropical Island
1 Volcanic Island
6 Island

SB
4 Leyline of the Void
4 Vinelasher Kudzu
1 The Tabernacle at Pendril Vale
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Cephalid Coliseum
1 Academy Ruins
1 Urza's Factory
1 Barbarian Ring
1 Strip Mine

Before I get into the deck itself, I will admit that the only chance I have had to play with it have been about twenty games of goldfishing, so here is what I have found so far:
1.  This thing has TONS of mana!!  I could pretty easily use any mana dump in here, but was unable to find one that fits.
2.  Living Wish is awesome.  This was never a dead card.  It fetches win conditions and defense (mostly Glacial Chasm), and only costs 1G.  That means that on turn two on I can use this to fetch something and play it in the same turn.
3.  Vinelasher Kudzu functions much the same way in this deck that Quirion Dryad functions in GAT: it sits around, getting really huge and is a great win condition on its own.
4.  As a flipside to having a ton of mana, I find myself emptying my hand rather quickly.  It seems like I may need more draw but do not know quite where to take it.
5.  I have three of most of the combo peices because it really sucks having one in play and staring at another in your hand.

That is most of the non-obvious things that I want to say about the card choices specifically, but a couple of things in general:  First, I am not the best deck builder in the world, and obviously I am missing some vital things such as bounce and a way to beat Ichorid (I really doubt Leylines in the SB are good enough).  Second, I feel that this deck needs, by its nature, more land than most other vintage decks, but I still very well may have too much.  Third, this deck does have a lot of synergy, but that isn't all that is needed to win games.  And finally, this deck is really a blast to play!!!  You should try it!! 

Thanks for reading, and I am open to any and all suggestions!!

Staff of Domination

Is there anything it can't do with infinite mana?  I like it because it is disruption, life gain, and a win condition all in one.  Personally, I wouldn't make this deck without this card and some Tops.  Be sure to post the deck when you finish.  Sounds fun!!

The way I see it there are at least three good reasons to experiment:

1.   It helps determine what the actual optimal build is.  For example, I might find that every time I play Frantic Search, I win. That would be a good indication that Frantic Search should be included in GL.  The same would apply for the other cards as well.  Also, on the reverse applies here double.  It could be that there aren’t enough lands to support Crop Rotation.  This will help determine what the threshold is for things like that.
2.   If I understand correctly, the theory behind the original Long.dec was that you have more broken cards than your opponent, therefore have a better chance of winning.  This of course is merely theoretical.  It obviously depends on what build you are using and which deck you are against, but in general, this is taking that philosophy to the extreme.
3.   It is brain exercise!!  You sound like a college student who asks his teacher why he has to study (not to imply that anyone can learn from me- I’m no teacher, I’m still learning).  You enrolled in the class, you might as well.  Well, here, you post to TMD and care about Vintage, shouldn’t you take a look at all potential builds of a deck?

In addition to those, you might just have some fun trying to build with certain restrictions.  I thought it would be pretty clear that building decks, and having a purpose in doing so are both good things, but maybe not…

In the process of becoming a better deck designer, I have set challenges for myself along the way.  Whether that challenge is to build a deck around a reject rare (Quicksilver Fountain FTW!!), or make a deck that has fetch-able answers to everything, I find it a helpful way to visualize and organize during the deck building process.  As a part of this theory, I have always wanted to make a deck where at least half the cards in it are restricted.  When I first saw Grim Long, I knew I had found my starting point.

First, I will go over the deck as it is now, and then I’ll leave you with some discussion points.

Power Tools.dec:

4 City of Brass
4 Gemstone Mine
1 Glimmervoid
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Dark Ritual
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Brainstorm
3 Grim Tutor
3 Duress
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Empty the Warrens
Ancestral Recall
Black Lotus
Mana Crypt
Mana Vault
Sol Ring
Mox Emerald
Mox Jet
Mox Ruby
Mox Pearl
Mox Sapphire
Lion’s Eye Diamond
Lotus Petal
Timetwister
Necropotence
Yawgmoth’s Bargain
Yawgmoth’s Will
Wheel of Fortune
Mind’s Desire
Vampiric Tutor
Mystical Tutor
Demonic Tutor
Imperial Seal
Regrowth
Frantic Search
Tinker
Memory Jar
Windfall
Tolarian Academy
Crop Rotation
Chrome Mox

So, that was how this started.  When playtesting this deck, I notice that the lack of defense is at least slightly offset by the sheer power of the cards.  Notice how some restricted bombs did not make it into this list.  Some noticeable omissions are:  Fact or Fiction (perhaps a little too expensive), Gush (no Islands), Grim Monolith (this card is better overall than most people give it credit for, but isn’t better than the cards currently in here), and Enlightened Tutor (it just doesn’t quite do enough to make up for the card disadvantage).

The point of this post is not to show you what I think the most efficient or optimal build of GL is, the point is to explore a deck that HALF (or more I guess) restricted.  I think that my numbers are as good as they can be given my building restriction, but I am really interested in what you guys think.

Some discussion points:

With the current decline of Stax (and, for that matter DSC as a win condition), is Hurkyl’s Recall/Rebuild absolutely necessary main deck?
3x Duress is the only disruption I have.  Given that I have changed so much else, is there something that would work better with this build and still offer some defense?
Am I using the best restricted cards I can?  I am disappointed in Chrome Mox (though that doesn’t surprise me), but it seems like I need the extra mana because my deck has a higher mana curve than most Long lists.
Finally, this build seems a little shy on land.  What should I cut, and what land should I add?

Thank you in advance for taking a look at my experiment, and all of your help!!

P.S.  Remember, this is a deck-building experiment, and not a question of which build of GL is optimal.

Thanks again!!!

Have you tried Locket of Yesterdays yet?  It really is pretty amazing to use it to make your Seething Songs cheaper (and if you don't run Seething Song, you should consider it partially because of this combo).  Also, if someone counters your belcher the second will just be cheaper.  That combined with Xanitd Swarm could help you win even through the control of Slaver and Gifts (which seem like your worst matchups).  I didn't used to be a fan of that card, but a guy I know has a pretty solid build and he uses it, so I would at least give it a try.

Personally, I think Memnarch is a home-run here.  His artifact stealing ability is not only useful (and makes him played at least a little in every format), but it matches his flavor very well.  Also, let us not forget that this guy was pretty instrumental in Mirrodin Block, which changed much of how the game is played.

I definitley like the BR Stax list, but I think that there is some more work to be done here:

1.  I agree with Vroman, Cabal Pit is worse than pretty much any other land would be in it's place.  I would put in B Ring #2.
2.  Why Blood Crypt?  You stated in your initial post that Vault, Crypt, and Cities are not in the deck because of the life loss.  Obviously, you could just have the Crypts come into play tapped, but that seems to slow the deck down too much.  I suggest putting in Gemstone Mine instead.  You have 3 Crucibles that can recurr it if it runs out of counters and it would allow you to maindeck BALANCE, which is probably the only card that really feels like it is missing.

Jotun Grunt: COOL!!  Not the same deck though.  I'd like to stick with Tendrils if possible.  Got a link to the decklist?
Wow!  Seems like we have a lot of pretty good ideas here.  I agree totally with Cabal Therapy.

Oath Combo 2.0:

4 Oath of Druids
1 Eternal Witness

4 Mana Drain
4 Force of Will
4 Duress
2 Cabal Therapy

4 Brainstorm
1 Entomb
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Imperial Seal
1 Krosan Reclimation
1 Time Walk
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Tendrils of Agony

1 Black Lotus
1 Lion's Eye Diamond
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sol Ring

4 Forbidden Orchard
4 Polluted Delta
2 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
1 Island
1 Swamp
1 Tolarian Academy

Some issues-
1. Five color manabase- this doesn't seem like what I want.  I already hate Wasteland.  I don't want to loose fetches and basics just to support red and white (two colors that I don't think I need).
2.  I don't think I have enough Blue to support Misdirection.
3.  Entomb and Krosan Reclimation have both been working out well for me!!   Thanks!!  With these cards, it seems sub-otimal to include another Witness.
4.  So far I have not missed Dark Ritual, as playing and bouncing Moxen is usually enough for the win.

Thanks for the help, people!

I've been playing around with this deck recently because it really is a lot of fun when it works.  It seems like someone brings this up every once in a while, but it never seems to work out like intended.  Anyway, here is my list:

4 Oath of Druids
1 Eternal Witness

4 Mana Drain
4 Force of Will
4 Duress

4 Brainstorm
4 Dark Ritual
1 Cabal Ritual
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Imperial Seal
1 Windfall
1 Timetwister
1 Time Walk
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Tendrils of Agony

1 Black Lotus
1 Lion's Eye Diamond
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mana Crypt

4 Forbidden Orchard
4 Polluted Delta
4 Underground Sea
1 Island
1 Swamp
1 Tolarian Academy

In case someone can't tell, the object is to Oath up the only Eternal Witness, dumping most of you lib into your graveyard.  Hopefully, this includes Will, which you then return to your hand.
I've been running into the following problems:
1.  This deck ABSOLUTELY rolls to Fish.  I recently took out City of Brass for the basics, which does help the matchup, but Duress is pretty much worthless and M. Mage plus T. Believer wreck me.  Wasteland still sucks too... 
2.  Since I took out City, it seems like the deck is really slow.  If I have Oath (preferably with Force backup) I don't have Orchard or vise versa.  I do have the black tutors, but they don't seem to show up often enough or throw me off Drain Mana (as in Demonic and Imperial).
3.  Im not too impressed with Timetwister or Windfall, but I think I need more draw than Ancestral or Brainstorm.  Misdirection has been suggested here, but can anyone think of draw spells to put here?

I think I will have 1 Simic Sky Swallower and 1 Akroma in my SB, but other MD/SB suggestions?  I know this deck will not be as good as Long against most matchups, and it won't be as good as Oath against Fish, but come on people!  This is the home to Vintage pioneers!  Let's see what we can do to make it as good as possible!!  Thanks!

200 Black Lotus 200 Wheel of Fortune gets beat by RentDue.dec

LOL.  I like two things about the 30 Lotus/20 Ball Lightning/10 Timetwister deck is that you get to actually attack for the win!!!  Come on, are you going to have more than 120 life on the first turn?  Unlikely.
Secondly, I called the deck Black Balls.  Which reminds me of Chef...

http://www.starcitygames.com/php/news/article/13278.html

Outraged?  Sorry, it was a rhetorical question.

I know that Smennen isn't the most popular person here, but what did you think of this article?  Anyone outraged?

Actually, I would include Simic Sky Swallower since a lot of decks are packing Wipe Away.  Also, STP could be problematic for the DSC route since it is not a very good drain target, FOW has you -2 cards and -1 life to counter a 1 mana instant, and most likely there will be no other creature to Misdirect STP to.  SSS should avoid most of the commonly used cards that could wreck you.  Especially since you are talking about a transformational sideboard and (presumably) they won't predict needing to answer SSS.

Does anyone remember the old Microprose MTG computer game?  I got it when it first came out and this is the most powerful deck I could come up with at the time (of course it is totally illegal):

30 Black Lotus
20 Ball Lightning
10 Timetwister

I think I won almost every game on turn 1.  Requires proxies or MWS, obv.

Why Children of Korlis?  Are you worried about other tendrils decks?  If you are thinking about the interaction between Children and Necro/Bargain, I wouldn't- you should just win instead.  I think you really need some more draw sevens.  You should drop your pain lands for City of Brass and put in Windfall, Wheel of Fortune, Tinker and Memory Jar, and maybe even Time Spiral.  You say no power, however you could still include Mana Crypt, Mana Vault, Mox Diamond, and Chrome Mox.  If you put these artifacts in there, I would reccommed Tolarian Academy (plus Crop Rotation if you want to get it often).  I would also have no more than two tendrils in the deck as it is always a dead card in your opening seven.  I don't know if Cabal Therapy is such a good idea- if there will be no power or sideboards the decks will be much more unpredictable.  That means that Therapy will only be good after a Duress.

Here’s the best I could come up with that includes both the black tutors and Workshops.  After some playtesting this weekend, I have to agree with EnialisLiadon that the tutors make my deck faster and more consistant.  I do miss the Mana denial strategy with Chalice and Strip Mine, but I was probably overreaching- this is a combo deck, and should have just enough disruption to not loose before it goes off.  Believe it or not, this deck (especially with 4 Workshops) can race Grim Long often enough to not just outright loose.  Playtesting of this version has done well against Long, Stax, and Dragon, but I loose HORRIBLY to Fish.  All testing has been done pre-board (as I don’t have a sideboard yet.

4 Krark Clan Ironworks
4 Myr Retreiver
4 Disciple of the Vault
4 Chromatic Star
3 Terrarion
4 Duress
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Imperial Seal
2 Winter Orb
4 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Echoing Truth
2 Goblin Welder
1 Tinker
1 Memory Jar
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Yawgmoth’s Will
4 Mishra’s Workshop
4 Underground Sea
3 City of Brass
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Black Lotus
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault

Any more maindeck suggestions?  If not, how about a sideboard?

Sorry to double post, but it looks like you guys (and girls I guess) aren't too interested in this deck.  I think there is some potential for brokenness here, as long as we can work past the hate.  I think rainbow lands are a good call.  What about this list?

4 Krark Clan Ironworks
4 Myr Retreiver
4 Disciple of the Vault
4 Chromatic Star
4 Terrarion
4 Duress
2 Chalice of the Void
2 Winter Orb
4 Thirst for Knowledge
2 Echoing Truth
2 Goblin Welder
1 Tinker
1 Memory Jar
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Yawgmoth’s Will
4 Underground Sea
4 City of Brass
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Strip Mine
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Black Lotus
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Grim Monolith

Why would Ashnod's Altar be better?
1.  Creatures have less utility and are less likely for automatic inclusion in a Vintage deck.
2.  Creatures are even more succeptible to kill.
3.  As far as I know, Solemn Simulacrum is the only creature that draws me a card when killed.
4.  It would take more cards to go infinite.
5.  Besides Mana Drain, Ashnod's Altar gets hit just as hard by Meddling Mage, Null Rod, and Hurkyl's/Rebuild.

Crop Rotation- The nature of my deck is to make a TON of mana.  More often than not, I find myself needing something to do with that mana.  I don't really need an Academy #2.
Myr Incubator seems like a good sideboard choice, though.  I remember it from the Extended version of this deck.  I was thinking about Ensaring Bridge, though.  It can stem aggro even more quickly, and doesn't require activation.

I agree that Duress is a good option- it can remove Mana Drain, Hurkyl's/Rebuild, and Null Rod which are the scariest cards I face. -4 Cathodion +4 Duress
E. Truth should be good to remove Null Rod and things like Meddling Mage which can set me back.  -2 Thirst +2 E. Truth.
Workshop...  I have now removed four artifacts, meaning that there are now even more cards that Workshop does not work with.  Like I said, I have an abundance of mana from KCI, so I don't think I need this.  If I did put it in, what should I take out?

Hello!  As you all see by my post count, I am new to The Mana Drain, however, I have been following the site and Vintage as a format for a while.  I live in Kansas, and Vintage Magic is hard to come by here (we don’t have any support from cardshops in the area), but, I have group games at my house.  My metagame consists of Oath, Grim Long, Dragon, Bomberman, Fish, and random aggro.
I have never considered myself an innovator of any sorts, but here is my first attempt at a competitive deck that I created (at least I think I did):

Altar of fire.dec

4 Krark Clan Ironworks
4 Myr Retreiver
4 Disciple of the Vault
4 Chromatic Star
4 Terrarion
4 Cathodion
2 Chalice of the Void
2 Winter Orb
4 Thirst for Knowledge
2 Crucible of Worlds
2 Goblin Welder
1 Tinker
1 Memory Jar
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Yawgmoth’s Will
4 Vault of Whispers
4 Seat of the Synod
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Strip Mine
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Black Lotus
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Grim Monolith

The idea is to draw through most of your library using KCI and cantripping artifacts, while generating mana to play what you draw and kill with Disciple.  The minimal amount of control in this deck actually does more to hold back the onslaught than it may look.
This deck is mostly untested, so instead of explaining matchups, I will go over some of the card choices:

KCI, Retreiver, Disciple, Chromatic Star- This is the core of the deck, and is not really changeable as far as I see (I’m a pretty open minded guy, though).
Cathodion- Obviously, this generates me a lot of mana.  I don’t ever seem to run short of mana, so this could be taken out for something better if it presents itself.
Terrarion- Other than Chromatic Star and Solemn Simulacrum (which is too expensive), this is the only other artifact that draws me a card when sacrificed.  It is a terrible card, but I don’t seem to have enough draw without it.
Chalice/Winter Orb- This deck started off as a Stax variant.  This is all that remains.  Winter Orb is absolutely NUTZ in this deck, especially against fish.
Goblin Welder- These are KCI # 5 and 6.  They allow me to abuse Disciple if I don’t have KCI or just get back an artifact discarded with TFK.
Grim Monolith- Usually bad, but pretty good in here.

Cards that are not included:

Workshop:  I don’t seem to have too many mana issues, but I do miss the explosive starts.  If this is the direction I go, I may wish to remove some of the spells for more artifacts.
2sphere/3sphere:  Again, this used to be modified Stax, but these were moved to potential sideboard against Combo when I increased the amount of slots dedicated to the combo.

I’d love to make the deck stronger, and I think that it may need more mana denial, but every time I try to fit it in, my combo seems too diluted.

Any thoughts or suggestions are appreciated!!