8 diferent archetyoes but almost all of them had pyro/REB in the MAINDECK...

I just joined a game I had to copypaste:

<-------- New Game Started -------->
Serin's Security Code: 6A3E70D7 [???]
tripleghost's Security Code: 567E5E3C [Type 1.5]
It is now turn 1 (tripleghost)
It is now the Beginning Phase, Untap Step
<tripleghost> FUCK
<tripleghost> FUCK
<tripleghost> FUCK
<tripleghost> FUCK
<tripleghost> FUCK
<tripleghost> FUCK
<tripleghost> FUCK
<tripleghost> FUCK
<tripleghost> ASSHOLE
<tripleghost> ASSHOLE
<tripleghost> ASSHOLE
<tripleghost> ASSHOLE
<tripleghost> ASSHOLE
<tripleghost> ASSHOLE
<tripleghost> GO TO HELL
<tripleghost> GO TO HELL
<tripleghost> GO TO HELL
<tripleghost> GO TO HELL
<tripleghost> GO TO HELL
<tripleghost> FUCK
<tripleghost> FUCK
<tripleghost> ASSHOLE
<tripleghost> GO TO HELL
<tripleghost> FUCK
<tripleghost> FUCK
<tripleghost> ASSHOLE
<tripleghost> GO TO HELL
<tripleghost> GO TO HELL
<tripleghost> ASSHOLE
<tripleghost> FUCK
<tripleghost> ASSHOLE
<tripleghost> GO TO HELL
<tripleghost> GO TO HELL
<tripleghost> FUCK
<tripleghost> FUCK
<tripleghost> FUCK
<tripleghost> ASSHOLE
<tripleghost> ASSHOLE
<tripleghost> GO TO HELL
<tripleghost> ASSHOLE
<tripleghost> FUCK
<tripleghost> FUCK
<tripleghost> FUCK
<tripleghost> ASSHOLE
<tripleghost> ASSHOLE
<tripleghost> GO TO HELL
<tripleghost> FUCK
<tripleghost> FUCK
<tripleghost> ASSHOLE
<tripleghost> i'm sataaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan
<tripleghost> FUCK
<tripleghost> FUCK
<tripleghost> ASSHOLE
<tripleghost> GO TO HELL
<tripleghost> GO TO HELL
<tripleghost> ASSHOLE
<tripleghost> FUCK
<tripleghost> FUCK
<tripleghost> ASSHOLE
<tripleghost> GO TO HELL
<Serin> now can we begin playing?
<System> Player Lost


It has harsh words, but its from the very satan!

PS: Mods, if this has to be censored due to the F word, please do so..

@ sierra_gandalf: I only played this deck at Katan, so I dont know about the version of the Navalmoral player. This last sunday I talked with Raul (Stax/Mask) at the Katan tourney about Navalmoral, and he didnt tell me there was a similar deck running around, I have to do some research to compare decklists with that unknown player
Don't know about his deck but my version has a very good game versus control, I have played vs Fish, 4cc and Mono-U and I can quite ofter outmatch their answers/counters with somenthing of the like of: first turn walla/welder/xantid, second turn mongrel/SoTF, and a third turn threat.
I will consider MDing some bloodmoons, but without Brainstorm/tutoring, I will have to add at least 3 to see them soon enough. Dont know what to remove.

@ absolute: My problem versus Stax decks is that I cant start the SoTF engine as they cripple my mana with trinisphere/wire/smokestack, and cant get the SoTF going. If I add the artifact lands, with 4 welders I think I will be able to weld more often with just a mongrel to discard. Will test it out and tell you how did it go
I currently don't have many problems versus crappy aggro/T2 affinity, as I can block/soak up damage the first turns and once I get the SoTF or an active welder going, I take control of the game almost completly.


Too many things to add, and I dont know what to remove! it always happens. I will try the artifact lands/4 welder version, and one more controlish with MD fire/Ices and bloodmoon. Thanks for the input!

I thought on adding the artifact lands, but I think it would make my otherwise good mana base into a very unstable one. Maybe I will add 2 Trees of tales, just to try them out.

Xantids dont do anything versus combo, and I found myself switching them for the Fire/Ice in the SB really often. Im considering making it a permanent change, and leave the Xantids on the SB.
I cant add Null rod because of Skullclamp and Triskelion, and if I add the artifact lands it gets much worse.
I'll definetly change the chalices for pillars in the SB, much more effective vs combo.

My problem versus stacks is that they usually get a Workshop on turn 2-3, and start dropping Wires and Smokestacks that really hinder my gameplan, as I need a lot of green mana on the first turns to develop the board position, and when Im able to do anything they have already tinkered a colossus or are doing nasty welder tricks.
Im used to play with Blue,  so maybe its that Im just missing the FoWs heh

Thanks for your help, keep the ideas coming!

Hi, I have built a deck similar to the one in the Shopless Survival thread but its a budget version.

I have taken it to some "small" (20-30 players) tournaments here in Spain (woot, 3 monthly tournaments at just one shop), and really enjoy it, its effective, and damn fun to play, but I need some help to solve my worse match-ups: Stax & Combo.

Here's the decklist:

Lands/mana:
4 Mountain
9 Forest
4 Wooded Foothills
1 Taiga
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Elvish Spirit Guide

Draw/Search:
4 Skullclamp
4 Survival of the Fittest

Creature Toolbox:
1 Ornithopter
1 Quirion Ranger
1 Uktabi Orangutan
1 Gorilla Shaman
1 Sundering Titan
1 Duplicant
1 Platinum Angel
1 Anger
1 Triskelion
1 Squee, Goblin Nabob
4 Xantid Swarm
2 Goblin Welder

More threats/Alternate win condition:
4 Basking Rootwalla
4 Wild Mongrel



I run only one taiga because the environment is full of Wastelands, and I only need red mana to cast welders and to give haste with Anger. I havent found problems with the mana configuration, I always have the colors of mana I need thanks to Birds of Paradise and fetchlands.

Skullclamp is great as it is gives a draw engine to a R/G deck, is weldable, and with a 'thopter you can clamp, weld the 'thopter and draw cards while you bring a fattie or utility artifact creature (maybe this is just a win.more situation, as once you can weld freely, you have taken control of the game, but its great once you can do it ).

The creature toolbox is pretty standard, save for the ornithopter, but its there just in case I dont have an artifact in play and need to weld the big artifact creatures.

I have 4 MD Xantids because the metagame was heavy control in the past, but lately its turning into more combo, so I might consider cutting them. I find myself SBing them too much, even vs non-combo decks.

The Mongrels and their unseparable friends the Rootwallas (also good friends with Survival) are there as an alternative way to win, another discard outlet, and to soak up counters/creature removal before I drop the survival and start to weld things.

This is my current SB, and I would really appreciate any help you can give me, taking into account that the metagame is control/combo heavy with very few Workshop decks, although they really wreck me every time I have to play vs them as I cant develop my gameplan fast enough.

4 Artifact Mutation
4 Fire Ice
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Red Elemental Blast

I dont have much problems vs control, but I am thinking on changing the Chalices for Pyrostatic Pillar to fight combo.

The biggest problems I have found are:

-Chalice for 1: no welders, no skullclamp, no rootwallas, no shaman. My only answer is the random Uktabi oranguntan, and often is too slow.
-Chalice for 1, 2 (usually off Workshops): it utterly destroys me. And it happens more often than I would like.
-Combo: cant disrupt them much, aside from SB chalices, as it takes a lot of time to mount the SoTF engine.


Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance and excuse my bad english

Mine was a budget version and I ran 1 ornithopter. To block those curious faeries, because with shield sphere, if you block a juggy it still dies, and for blocking a titan its the same

Hi, I played a similar version of this deck some months ago. Though it was before sundering titan was released.

I had 4 mongrel, 4 rootwalla, they were quite nice as additional threats and could steal some games without dropping survival. Turn 2 mongrel, discard anger, drop rootwalla is a very aggresive startup (I ran 2 MD anger, wasn't so focused on survival).
They also draw counters/removal leaving the way free for welder/fat beats/swarms.

I also didn't run eternal witness, so maybe you don't have the problem of getting your welders nuked and only be able to use them once.

Have you tried during the testing including the madness creatures? even fiery temper to remove opposing welders could work... (haven't tested them).

No -- it does nothing.

Sorry, couldnt resist quoting the text .

I would never cut the MD rods as long as I play on a powered metagame, and I would never change Logics for Dazes, maybe add 2 Dazes, or even add 4 Dazes and remove 2 Logics because I think 12 counters on a aggro-control deck are too much. Thus far I've been loving 2 MD Dazes, mainly when I play one first game, then, my opponent plays more carefully, leaving 1 open mana. You can even SB them out for game 2 and they will still have to guess if you have them.

My deck is Unpowered, as here in Spain almost every tournament is sanctioned, so Im running Frantic Search in the place of Ancestral Recall.

So I think that posting a sub-optimal list isnt worth it, anyways here are my changes:

Im trying 2 Dazes in the places of Black Lotus and Timewalk, I had before 2 Were Bears and they were working quite nicely but I wanted to try the Dazes to protect my second turn plays. I'd like to try 4 for its maximun effectiveness, but dont know what to cut, maybe 2 logics, but I'm not sure.

I've read that JpMeyer tried Daze instead of Logic during the "creation" of the deck, but dismissed them, I think Daze is good in addition to FoW and Logic, but running 12 counters could be too much countermagic.

I've been playing with Frantic Search, and although people in TMD say its crap, it has been working nice for me, guaranteeing a Wurm third turn, even if they kill my madness outlet.

A good addition to protect your second turn play is Daze, have you tried it ?

I've been wondering if its any useful to put cards in your SB to hose cards that your opponens might SB.
For example, if you play a deck that gets totally hosed, for example, by Chalice of the Void or Null Rod (you could vary the casting costs of the cards and other things, but this is just an example for Anti-SB Sb's) should you include some artifact hate in your SB, because of the fear of your opponents playing with SB Chalice?

I think there's a low probability that, if your opponent is playing that certain card in their SB, that he will play it in the second game, and you will have your SB'd answer, but maybe its the only way to fight their SB.

PS: Its really hard for me to explain my thoughts in english, but I hope you understand me

This is most relevant for combo decks, where people can and will SB in cards that completely shut you down. For example, when Dragon was popular, people would run Tormod's Crypt, Ground Seal, and other hosers. Dragon responded by running Pernicious Deed and Chain of Vapor in the side--not because they were particularly useful against opposing maindeck spells, but because they were necessary to avoid just losing to SB hate.
Similarly, Long would run Hurkyl's Recall in the side, because it could bounce any number of Chalice of the Voids. Echoing Truth is another option for modern combo decks, because it can bounce all copies of any annoying SB card, whether it's root maze, chalice, null rod, or something else.
-Jacob

I assume you're referring to affinity decks being crushed by Rod/Shaman/both? If so, yeah, you need SOMETHING to combat Null Rod, especially if you won the first game. IT's just too common and too devastating to leave unaswered.
-Matt

I often pitch gush to FoW because of the low land count, making it hard to get 2 islands.
But, on the other side, it can act as a game finisher with an unblocked mongrel, and sometimes as a mana producer, when you only have a tropical and a island for example (albeit very narrow use).

What I dont understand is the lack of Frantic search, it acts as a digger, and a discard outlet.

Don't you have to sacrifice Standstill in order to draw the cards? So you played the lotus, your opponent triggered the standstill and sacrificed it, then you tried to stifle the triggered ability and he mana drained your stifle, but as he cant sacrifice the standstill again, (anyways, it is no longer in play, so wouldnt trigger with mana drain) you wouldnt draw the 3 cards.... am I right ?

I have played stasis back in the Necrodeck times, and recently I took back my stasis deck.

I go for the Chronatog+Root Maze+Stasis hard lock, with Forsaken city as backup (in case I cant find a parto of the lock, I can stall the game long enough). Here's my decklist (budget):

//NAME: ChronoStasis
Lands:
3 Island
4 Polluted Delta
4 Gemstone Mine  (Maybe City of Brass)
3 Forsaken City
3 Underground Sea
2 Tundra
3 Tropical Island

CounterMagic:
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
3 Counterspell

Tutor/Draw:
4 Brainstorm
4 Impulse
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Demonic Consultation
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor

Removal:
3 Pernicious Deed
1 Balance

Lock:
4 Stasis
4 Root Maze
4 Chronatog
1 Black Vise (the tech )      

I have added Balance and Pernicious Deed, because going "pure" combo can get you killed fast hehe

I am by no means trying to "hi-jack" your thread, just want to show you another way of going with the Stasis theme (and less boring,for you and your opponent )

Are the Meddling mages useful? once you drop Stasis your opponent should be tapped out, and only with double ESG + Naturalize could he break your lock.

If you are going with an old school kill card, why not use Serra Angel?

I thought maybe adapting to Manabond, and putting more Flashback cards a la Roar of the Wurm, so you could drop a first turn Arrogant + rootwalla and then flashback the cards in your graveyard next turns.  It would also enable the drop of 2-3 lands on first turn, to activate rootwallas/play flashback cards what I consider really useful.

If its drawn mid-game, its useless, but the deck is called Stompy, and what kind of stompy deck is good mid/late game? j/k

I'm not saying that Manabond should be included on Oshawa Stompy or any other Madness Deck, I just want to know why hasn't it been included as I think it allows really nasty things on first turn.
Has anybody tested it?

Manabond
Enchantment
At the end of your turn, you may reveal your hand and put all land cards from it into play. If you do, discard your hand.