Well great Tan, but it is still not working here. And my grasp on knowledge concerning the internet allows me to say that if I cannot see it, no-one can. So dish out the pictures dude!  

Perhaps I wasn't clear enough. I know 4cControl > mybuild. (Big time I might add) I am a control player by heart and continued to play The Deck after it was out of grace.
I have my own build of 4cControl already. But have not been able to play yet (Still needed the angels and getting enough rest > playing magic, when you have a job   )

What I really want to know is, whether or not my approach and theory are in the right direction.

It would be ...eh.. stupid to even think I could build something better then people who put so much effort and time into building and playing.


So, for a noob, is this going anywhere or should I change my tactics.

Sorry for not beeing clear.

The list hasn’t seen the testing it should, before posting. Now I know this is about the closest thing to actually saying the list is crap, without using the same words and it is against the rules. Bear with me though, I simply haven’t got the resources to test it extensively (It is not like is completely untested either) and my private life just doesn’t allow me to spend entire days at tournaments to show some reliable results. Still I would really like some feedback, just to know if what I am doing is worth the trouble. I am very serious about this and after much deliberation I decided to post anyway. I hope this is alright. If not, it will get locked, and I will apologize for the trouble I caused right now.


The list

4 Mana Drain
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
2 Cunning Wish
1 Time Walk
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Tinker
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Mystical Tutor
3 Thirst for Knowledge

1 Balance
2 Swords to Plowshares
1 Decree of Justice

1 Gorilla Shaman

1 Demonic Tutor
1 Yawgmoth’s Will
1 Mind Twist

1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Isochron Scepter
1 Darksteel Colossus
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Emerald
1 Sol Ring

1 Library of Alexandria
1 Island
3 Underground Sea
2 Tundra
1 Tropical Island
3 Volcanic Island
2 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
4 Wasteland
1 Stripmine

SB

1 Blue Elemental
1 Stifle
1 Accumulated Knowledge
2 Damping Matrix
2 Coffin Purge
1 Skeletal Scrying
1 Vampiric Tutor
3 Red Elemental Blast
1 Berserk
1 Orim’s Chant
1 Disenchant

Background

The list is a bit unconventional. After the decent of Morphling I needed a solid kill. Roaming the boards led me to different approaches and I tested most of them, but I wasn’t satisfied. Decree of Justice came around but since I only owned one, it wasn’t enough. At first, I started of with Darksteel Colossus for fun, but discovered that it didn’t suck as much as people claimed. So I started to bend the deck a bit to fit it more properly and come up with this, trying to comply with the further rise of hybrid strategies.

Game plan

Darksteel Colossus has only one real job (since any kill would suffice once you have established control) and that is to be able to put pressure early on non-control decks.
Well actually, to completely destroy them.
Basically the idea is to just play control when you need your draws to compete and play Darksteel Colossus if you are up against little disruption.
Setting up with Cunning Wish for Berserk isn’t as hard as it seems. Even the direct kill with Time Walk is a lot easier then I initial thought it would be against non control decks. Off course, you must be very careful settings this up since it requires fetching Tinker, Time Walk or Cunning Wish over Ancestral Recall and screwing up is game almost al the time.  
Most people have mentioned how pointless indestructible is in Type 1. However not many decks run the right spot removal, to deal with The Big Guy. And if they do, it most likely is a deck you do not want to play The Big Guy against before having control any way.
There are small merits often overlooked though. It is a great blocker that simply doesn’t go away. In the rare situations where it has to compete with Tog himself it absorbs 11 points of damage which is still a lot to deal with for a Tog player. And after that it doesn’t go away either.
It also helps for when you overextend with a Berserk or your opponent has a small surprise since The Big Guy doesn’t die afterwards and you will still have your threat on the table.
The biggest problem with The Big Guy isn’t spot removal. Sometimes you have to gamble, but in general you only put him in play when needed or when it’s all clear anyway.(Read no counters or spot removal) Ditching him or putting him back in other situations. The problem is loosing Tinker. With the humongous casting cost of eleven, hard casting is virtually impossible. So without Tinker you loose a win condition, which means bad times and relying solely on the one Decree of Justice and Gorilla Shaman.


The cards

It is obviously a control core with some added odds and ends. I did not just smack it together though.
Since the biggest problem of the deck is the draw, (You need to at least be able to stand a change against Tog) I tried almost anything that at least made some sense and allows you to draw cards. Eventually I turned to Thirst for Knowledge.
To be able to use these to some effect I had to up the artifact count without compromising the core of the deck. I stepped over the line in one build and the deck became complete shit. Thirst for Knowledge is the best fit since it interacts well with Darksteel Colossus in the sense that you do not want The Big Guy in your hand and dropping him allows you to shuffle him back anyway.
Also other artifacts become dead cards against certain decks and dropping them for Thirst for Knowledge doesn’t hurt, adds the benefit of not having to drop another card and gaining some card quality in the process as well. You might consider this moot, since if I didn’t put in the suboptimal artifact in the first place you would not need to drop it. But the key is redundancy here. Cards dead against some decks are gold against others. This is a way to justify them without compromising the overall quality of the deck.
Adding Mox Emerald for instance adds another green source to the deck, is fodder for Thirst for Knowledge, can be a target for Tinker after tapping it for Berserk mana, or just adds that extra bit of speed.

The Thirst for Knowledge are not as solid as with Slaver. Lacking the option to recur with Goblin Welder means your artifacts are lost. (Adding Goblin Welder leads to Drain Slaver) For this reason the deck looses some overall synergy compared to decks like Drain Slaver.
Three is the optimal count, in this deck as far as I’m concerned. Add just two and the card shows up too random. Four it shows up too often to be able to ditch an artifact to it.

Crucible of Worlds is the most recent addition. Cutting a Gorilla Shaman earlier compromised the mana disruption ability of the deck. Tinkering out Crucible of Worlds solves some of that problem. (Or hard casting it if you have drawn it and the game allows it. Plus I wanted to test it as a mana fixer. I am not sure yet since I have not been able to test it much.

I switched the Tundra for a Volcanic Island and added a Tropical Island in the mana base. Obviously I want to be able to fetch green in some situations. The Tundra switch might proof not so smart, but I really want to have red early. Especially after boarding Red Elemental Blast. If I would have to play in a Blood Moon –less meta, I would switch the basic Island for a Tundra right away.

The Sideboard

The sideboard is pretty general. Most of it is obvious as well. I will have to put more thought into it once I do have time to go to a tournament.

The Accumulated Knowledge is there only for the Tog Match up.

Isochron Scepter is an obvious slot for Damping Matrix when sideboarding.

Orim’s Chant is there not only for a possible soft lock combined with Isochron Scepter, but also a means of forcing through the Darksteel Colossus as well. (With Tinker off course)


Since the deck still has a solid control core the addition of a 2 turn clock that can be played as early as turn two (Turn one is possible but only if you’re lucky) that, adds to some of the deck match-ups without compromising others.
The disruption of Force of Will and Mana Drain is not compromised. Adding Crucible of Worlds provides extra synergy with Thirst for Knowledge, helps fixing your mana and has synergy with Stripmine and Wasteland.

As I mentioned before my goal is not to prove I build a tier one deck. I would really like some feedback on this and perhaps some pointers for the future. Just to see if I am on the right track with my approach.
And please, at least try not to go like ‘WTF??? What kind of n00b are you?’. Not for my fragile ego but it’s not like anyone is going to benefit from that.

Again, if I am out of line I apologize

I would like to try CoW to protect myself against Strip/Waste. Problem there is you need fixing early on meaning 4 CoW main and that just will never work unless you play a Workshop deck and you might not need to fix that much and you really do not want to use the mana on CoW for fixing anyway.

And that is the problem. You want a Control deck with an Oath stuffed into it. IMHO your list has too much of both, so you'd need to dedicate more of your deck to either.

I do not understand why you would have to rely too much on Oath if you would runs just Colossus? If you would leave out things like Decree of Justice, than yes, but it is not what I suggested.

It is apples and oranges.

GenCon had no real admittence threshold and Type 1 is much, much less confined than Type II.

So it is comparing apples with oranges.

I think you should go dedicated with just the Colossus and another win, like Decree of Justice. This frees up slots and takes out the random factor of the creature. Two Colossus should be enough since it shuffles back. You could up the Cunning Wish count and put Berserk in the Sideboard and finish it off quite nicely once you get one into play.
Off course, if you go this route, you would probably want to take out City of Brass as well since they probably hurt too much combined with Skeletal Scrying and without Exalted Angel. But since you have no red anyway this should be much of a problem.

I like the strategy (I have somthing simular) but I think you'd want to play more like control in most non-aggro match ups and this might be difficult with your current list. Versus aggro it is a killer.

Good luck.

Play as much games against as many different decks and opponents as I can. (Which isn't much at the moment )

Off course I try and keep track of what happens as much as possible. As time goes a by I get the feel of the deck and what works in which match up.

Then I give it to some one else and play against it to find weaknesses.

Ben has very funny moments. This was not such a moment.

No, just kidding. Lighten up cssamerican, I am sure he's fooling around a bit as well.  

It was a nice read, nothing spectacular, but a nice read.

I know I am of no contribution to this thread but to be honest, I really have no idea what this guy wants! If I did I would be more ...wel...err.. of a contribution. Well that's it...the end.

...

In fact I want to add something about the deck although, and this is if I understand correctly, I will get no answer from Ben here since he is 'outside doing stuff'. But I really like to know more, so here goes:

Why did you put Tog in this deck? You have no draw besides Skullclamp and if I am not entirely wrong this would only work with some sort of 1/1 creature generator engine. Perhaps Thirst for Knowledge would be an addition?

Why Artifact lands? I know you'll think 'Are you stupid?' but I'll say; Artifact lands to get Frogmite in play? Second Sunrise to break Affinity... For...uh... Frogmite? Besides aren't you a bit light on white? Sunrise needs two.

Well Disciple will hurt your opponent and you can sacrifice all your artifact land to the Ravager.

What are the test results so far?

How does this deck play out?

Thanx

Are you sure? You can Slave a full turn earlier and you do not have to protect it a whole turn extra.
On the other hand you'd probably loose that turn getting the artifact in play.  :lol:

I'm not sure, but I doubt this card is complete crap. I will have to give it more thought. I believe the key lies in looking to cards that are not currently in decks.

I agree. That is, until some one has a deck that is too much with the cards included and rapes everything.



You could be right, but I think it is way too easy to claim there will not be any aggro or prison left after restricting Mishra's Workshop and Dark Ritual. Still, if above happens no one will be able to stop the restriction. And, I said it before, it is just a matter of time.

We can discuss this until we all turn blue but neither Mishra's Workshop nor Dark Ritual will go until they fuel a killer deck that rapes the meta.

So true. I cannot believe this is still not clear for all to see. Perhaps the toys are too nice to give up.

When Mirrodin just come out most type one players said affinity was crap. To play for fun I threw an artifact deck together and as it turned out it spat out permanents so fast that I wondered if this really didn't have any potential. (It won with Megatog ) True, the artifact lands helped a lot and are an easy target and thus a weakness. But what an artifact land can do for affinity, Workshop can do three times better. So it didn’t look hopeless to me. With Darksteel I added some cards, like Skullclamp and it became straight out annoying. No I know this doesn't proof affinity isn't crap. But it does proof potential. If something really has synergy and speed like that it has potential. Off course it could still be utter crap in the end. But then you have to proof that. Just like everybody wants proof if someone claims it does work.

I am sorry to say that, and the beginning of this thread is some proof of that, many Type1 players think they know it all. They seem to discard something as unplayable when:
a) It looks too casual or too much like something that was played in Type2
b) They have tried it and didn't come up with a solution for the problems they encountered within a month
c) It looks too much like a deck already around that is obviously better.

The kind of stuff you have to put up with in general for even suggesting an idea amazes me. I must be dealing with people who are all at least as good as Zherbus (I sure hope I spelled that right ) otherwise many of them just have a big mouth. And believe me I have seen my share of that kind of Magic player. Type1 or not. There are a lot of them. They learn from somebody else, master it further a bit and all of the sudden they are the God of Magic.
Sometimes everybody thinks some card or some combo or etc. is crap, but everybody is wrong. There are enough examples.

If you want proof that something works then wait until somebody claims they have something finished. If not either help or please just shut up.

@Greenmycon, keep up the good work! Even if things do not turn out the way you want it, you at least tried, (It is not easy working on something new, especially when you are somewhat isolated) held on and kept asking for help instead of claiming you already knew it all.

(If you think I am a whiner, save your breath I am too old to care)

Hi I am Peter Bokhorst 29 years old, married with the best and most beautiful woman in the world (No its not because I love her, she really is.) with two wonderful kids(11 and 5), work as an system administrator and live in the Netherlands. Close to Amsterdam. (Been there and the city sucks. Really)

I started in '94 just after legends in school where I tried to study computer sience. It didn't work out and the year before I dropped out I only came to school to play magic. I sold everything because I thought I would never find anyone to play Magic with outside school. After 6 months I found someone that played at work and I started buying cards again. Once your in you never get out.

I am not going to bore you more with my life, so to round things up:

I do not play tournaments because:
a) I'd rather stay home with my wife
b) I like the game more than winning
c) I do not play enough to be as good as I can

I'm close to owning the P9 after which I can spend normal amounts of cash again when buying cards.

First off, I am no expert on Parfait and I leave picking a deck to play up to you entirely.

I wonder though why splash green for so little gain. Swapping and selecting cards, plus card advantage can already be done with Land Tax/Scroll Rack. Using Sterling Grove seems a bit over the top since you already have Archivian Find and it would open 4 slots to leave it out.

Another question I have is, what are your problems? You mention it is not working as good as you would like. Judging form an aggro environment and your list I would say you'd probably get overrun. But it will not help to give advice an the basis of assumptions. So could you explain more about the difficulties you have?