Is this that much better than first turn duress, second turn extirpate?

Your opponents hand would have to be nuts to search up and cast another oath before turn 2.

I am on the side that thinks it won't see play

I don't think this is true.  having a magus of the unseen on the board (and 2 mana available) prevents them from comboing out.

It just seems too likely to backfire...

I really like glacial chasm against Tezz, most lists don't run a main deck answer to it, so having a chasm in play guarantees you another turn (even if they go infinite with vault key).

You are underestimating thirst for knowledge.  A lot.

How do you figure?

I don't know how strong this deck is (or whether its strong at all), but I think you should at least try to explain why you think it bad.

I like this deck on paper because it has so many hidden synergies and engines, and that you could easily win without resolving oath (which is really helpful against some of the current fish decks running around (with meddling mage and qasali pridemage).  Im definitely going to try this on MWS some time.

I also like the pandemonium kill rather than some combination of card advantage enchantments.

Sam

About your creature choice:

I would run 1 Akroma and 1 Hellkite, as after two turns that is still 20 damage (no matter which comes into play first)

OR

I would run 1 Magister Sphinx and 1 Progenitus

Sam

I definitely think you need some cabal therapies.

Main phase you could remove the 7 counters from Rasp, then flashback cabal therapy to help clear the way, then recoup -> replenish.

Cabal therapy can be a solid turn one play as well (even if you end up going fishing).

Sam

This might be a little off topic, but I think one of the reason's ichorid is underperforming is because its just so boring to play.  I've stopped bringing ichorid to tournaments because all the games are so similar and lack any real decision making, and I think a lot of other players have done the same.

Its not that its not a powerful deck, its just that I play magic because its fun and mentally stimulating (and I like winning big, but that never happens) and playing with ichorid takes away from those two factors.

I think this deck is really cool.


The problem with Recoup -> Will is that will is restricted.  So there is a 50 50 chance that you won't flip up Will when Oathing up Rasputin.

How about:

Flash
Protean Hulk
Body Double
Reveillark
Mogg Fanatic

This works nicely with gush.  But I personally doubt it will be unrestricted after being restricted.  Twice.

Edit: Just realized I forgot carrion feeder.  So scratch that.

I disagree with running both.  I think you should run multiple copies of one or the other; because they both serve the same purpose (win), but handle winning in different ways.  Which target you run should be based on your metagame (and to a lesser extent–your preference).

Maybe this is just a personal thing, but I think you should stick to one type (multiple copies) of a "win if this guy comes into play" creature.  I just feel like one is better than the other, and if you play both there would be too many times where you'd have the one that you don't want in your graveyard and have the one you do want in your library.

Here is another way to look at it – whenever you resolve dread return during a game (testing or tournament), ask the question "which would I rather target, X or Y," regardless of which ones are (or are not) in your graveyard.  At the end of the day, I would play two copies of the creature that you wanted more.

Sam

Im happy that you are having success with the red splash!

I've just re-read the thread and a bunch of people suggested cutting tinker + man plan.

And I know you decided to keep it in your deck due to a meta game decision, but if you ever decide to remove it I would recommend playing burning wish as the second win condition/way to find tendrils or other helpful sorcery's.

I think the third drain and fact or fiction would be great additions for the two deep analysis.

Also, I (personally) would cut academy for a fifth fetch land.

Sam

I don't think you understand.  The attacking player chooses the line up for blockers.  So the attacking player can choose to put your creature first and your wall second, thereby killing the creature.  Having a wall doesn't "throw a bunch of extra toughness on him."

Sam

Hello

What do you folks think about running more than one tinker target?

I have recently been running both Inkwell and Sundering Titan in my lists with tinker, and I am quite happy with the games I've played so far.

Here are some of the pro's that I've come up with:
   I can happily pitch Inkwell Leviathan to Force of Will without neutering my plan B (tinker -> robot).
   Without 4 brainstorm, it is much harder to put a robot back on top of your deck when its in your hand.
   Gives you more options based on game state (if Sundering Titan can take out 3 of their lands, I usually choose him regardless of whether or not I think they are holding bounce)

Here are the con's:
   Takes up an extra slot.

I have considered DSC as one of the possible targets, but I like the both Inkwell and Sundering Titan better.

Any thoughts?

Sam

I too am working with intuition tendrils, but our lists are different.

Here is what I would try (not including extra p9):
- 1 swamp
- 1 chrome mox
- 2 lim dul's vault/beseech the queen

+ 1 volcanic island
+ 1 lotus petal
+ 1 recoup
+ 1 merchant scroll

If anything, I definitely think you should try the red splash for recoup.  Considering that the game plan for intuition tendrils is survive the early game, build a big graveyard, and yawgmoth's will for the win, I think you need a recoup.  Late game Intution for Yawg will, recoup, lotus is the nuts.

Recoup can also come in handy with tinker/time walk.

I am happy to see that someone else is working with I.T.

Good luck!

Sam

The update isn't uploaded yet, But the easiest way to do it is Tools -> Check MWS site for Updates.

Sam

Has anyone considered cutting Tog for an empty slot?

9/10 times I draw him he is a "win more" card, he costs 1UB, and he is only situationally effective.

Sam

I prefer the Sins + 1 copy of R/D + 1 copy of Wipe Away in the Board, because you can anything the Tidespout Tyrant combo can do +

- It works through chalice @ 0 (This is very helpful when playing against ichorid/fish)
- It goes infinite with only 3 initail desire/desiire copies.

- 3 Copies of Minds Desire on the stack
- Flip and Play R/D, search for 1 Sins of the Past, and the Other R/D.
- Flip both Sins and R/D up, play Sins targeting Desire.
- R/D for Yagmoth's Will and Sins
- Play Mind's Desire for a total of 6 copies.
- Flip both Sins and Will (4 Desire copies remaining)
- Play Yagmoth's Will
- Play Sins targeting R/D
- Play R/D, search for Sins.
- Sins the second R/D, and R/D for the first R/D + Desire
- Rinse, Wash, Repeat

Sam

Oops, my mistake on the ruling.

Dipopter's pile works, or:

Street Wraith
Gush
Black Lotus
Desire
R&D

Works as well.

Sam

With your current build True Believer, or Meddling Mage naming tendrils is game over.

I would do:
-1 Time Spiral
-1 Dream Halls
-4 Cloud of Faeries
-1 Bloodstained Mire
-1 Watery Grave
-1 Tinker
-1 Memory Jar
-1 Frantic Search

---

+4 Repeal (Better than Faeries as a storm generator.  With profusion you can target your own 0cc artifact, draw 3 cards, and add two to the storm count (all for zero net mana).  You can even bounce other annoying permanents while drawing two cards.
+1 Chain of Vapor
r+2 Polluted Delta (maybe basics if your meta is wasteland heavy)
+ 4 Dark Ritual

Edits: Accedentally pressed post a few times.

Where do we go to see the changes in the restricted/banned list?

That will be available tomorrow, correct?

Sam

I tested the deck for a couple times, and here is the pile I used when my opponent had a chalice @ one.

-Top-
Gush
Black Lotus
Minds Desire
R/D
-Bottom-

Note: Thats Only 4 Cards...You can do that with DoomsDay

This pile win you the game next turn If you have 2 untapped islands in play, as well as another mana source (cabal rit, mox, lotus petal, an untapped land etc)

This stack only yeilds 2 storm copies, which means it will resolve three times.

1st Copy --> R/D (the one in your deck). Play it and fetch Sins of the Past + another R/D
2nd Copy --> Reveal either Sins or R/D and do nothing
3rd Copy--> Reveal either Sins or R/D.  Play R/D for the win condition.  Play Sins targeting the Mind's Desire in your graveyard.  Play Mind's Desire.

Win

I am not a premium member, but I did look at the deck list and it is fairly similar to my own.  My one question is, how does LED work in this deck?  Do you just discard your hand and burn three?  Doesn't that seem relatively week to you?  Isn't Phantasmagorian a better choice?  Also, Smmenen you posted:

"As a general note, I said this already on the SCG forums, but I think you can keep a hand without Bazaar if it has LED and two Street Wraiths and or Baubles."

How do the Wraiths synergize with LED?

I agree with removing Aeon Chronicler.  The card quality provided by his suspend just makes games unfair.  Also, what do you folks think about errating certain cards?  (For examble, taking fire breathing off Akroma, Angel of Fury)

Sam