Was hoping to make this, but the car's still in the shop.  Hopefully I'll make the next one.

Gotta find my playset of Noble Panthers...

Seriously though, despite being in the 2 worst vintage colors I think this guy might find a viable slot somewhere, especially if Green and White keep getting the toys along the same power level they have been.

Enchant creatures are generally bad as they let your opponent 2 for 1 your creature, the only reason Strength of Lunacy was any good was because it had madness, and it wasn't good enough.

Unfortunately I don't have a reliable amount of test information as I have just switched to this build from the "cool things" build, which was swingy, inconsistent and win-more, but fun.

Compulsive Research could prove to be very interesting, though the sorcery speed is pretty lame.

This thread has been quite a read.

I playtest with Commandant, and while he was building and doing quite well with an Angel/IBCM Oath build, I was toying with various Tyrant builds as a sideproject, most of my attempts were trying to add more combo elements to the deck... falling into the category of deckbuilding mistakes labeled "the danger of cool things."  When you have Oathed out a creature you should be well on your way to winning, and I was using valuable card slots on abusing Tyrant instead of focusing on getting to that point.

The current list I'm toying with is fairly similar to h3x's.
-2 Platz
+2 Tyrant
I partially agree with Harlequin on Platz, she doesn't have any positive affect on the gamestate besides being a body.  Having said that her ability becomes very relevant in certain matchups. The Oath target to maindeck is primarily dependant on what you expect to show at a tourney, if you expect lots of Flash, Ichorid and/or Tendrils in your metagame, Platz should be in the main.

-1 Tinker
Goes hand in hand with Platz to the board for...
+1 Recoup
My favorite toy from the Tyrant experiments, for which I'm still holding out a little hope for haven't done enough testing with it & blessing together to see if it can prove it's worth.

-4 Chalice of the Void
As shown by this thread this slot can go either way, and I'm currently on the fence with fitting it in.

+3 Duress
The difference between Chalice / Duress, Chalice has a good chance shutting off several relevant cards, Duress snags a relevant card right now and gives a bonus of showing you the opponents hand. 

I play Stax a decent amount, and love Chalice in there.  The go-to number for Chalice is 2 with Stax, it shuts off all of 2 your own cards and gives a HUGE part of the field problems, and I will happily play multiples on one and zero.  Oath obviously doesn't like Chalices @ 2, my usual go-to number, so I'm going with Duress for now, but I don't think I'm all that far from being brought over to the dark side if shown some good results with it.

-3 Strip effects
+1 Island
+1 Volcanic Island
+1 Mana Crypt
With Recoup in there I need the Volc, the crypt gives me another chance to go infinite with Tyrant, and the basic keeps my manabase a bit safer.  Strip effects were the best point to switch them in.

-1 Wipe Away
Becomes redundant with Tyrant main.
+2 Daze
More Islands in the deck, having them around makes people play around them or pay. Great for those early counter-wars you often see vs. GAT & Flash.

-1 Thirst for Knowlege
+1 Gush
Less Chalice, more Islands, but don't want to have to support full Gush engine (might go to -/+ 2 if I feel it will run well enough off the manabase / mana drains).

EDIT: With the red splash I was really trying to fit in an REB or two... but I couldn't find the slots.

EDIT2: Oh yea, and Sundering Titan is terrible in here, you have a decent chance to hit your own lands, just get a Tyrant and bounce everything you need to.  And Nix? Seriously?  I'm upset I bought a playset when Future Sight came out thinking they would rule in Vintage... and came oh so close to buying a set of 'goyfs... and didn't.

My question is if Magus of the Moon (and Blood Moon for that matter) effects nonbasic lands not in play.
The relevant example is Riftstone Portal.

Magus of the Moon Oracle text: Nonbasic lands are Mountains.

Riftstone Portal Oracle text: T Add 1 to your mana pool.
As long as Riftstone Portal is in your graveyard, lands you control have "T Add G or W to your mana pool."

I'm thinking that Magus kills the portal as it doesn't specify in play, but I'd like to make sure.

Seems as if Mark would have had to have stolen the Shapeshifter rather than the Quanar to 'flip a Protean Hulk' unless I'm missing something there, none the less a rather amusing anecdote. 


The play by play of the Vintage Finals was a bit of a letdown compared to the epic struggle I had pictured in my mind.

Seems as if the die roll pretty much translated into a game one win, and the game 2 was sealed steve's on the draw first turn brokeness (buy 2 first turn duresses, get a second turn duress free!).  Such is Vintage I suppose.

dats me in the green w/ short hair!

rawked that flash deck round one... then sucked for most the rest of the tourney...

great job Feinstein, looking forward to Octobers

Vote for Vintage++

right @ the last minute 

Taylor here.

Running the Needle out on LED was a joke on my part, as I realized by that point the salvagers I had expected were never going to show up.  Poor sideboarding ftl.

And you forgot your own Needle tech on my Welder to protect your Dreadnaught.

Get the Hell Of A Hat Habit.

I'm going to make him a Hell of a Hat he can't refuse.
The Godfather (1972)

That Stax list brings a tear of joy to my eye.

Although I think it would be a huge misrepresentation to call that deck "Stax".

Despite my immense magic theorycrafting skills, this is my first actual Vintage tourney, and hence my first tourney report, be gentle.

It has been a couple months now since my friend John and I had came back into the game, right on the tail of the unrestriciton of Gush.  Grow decks had been on the rise as I had last left the game and someone in at R&D had apparently decided I needed a chance to play a deck with four Gushes having missed out on it the first time around.

GAT #7562
Draw More Cards:
1 Ancestral Recall
4 Brainstorm
3 Opt
4 Gush

Look for Cards:
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Demonic
1 Mystical Tutor
4 Merchant Scroll
1 Cunning Wish

Stop Your Cards:
4 Force of Will
1 Misdirection
4 Duress
3 Stifle

Swing:
4 Quirion
1 Psychatog

Other:
1 Fastbond
1 Fire/Ice
1 Echoing Truth
1 Regrowth
1 Time Walk
1 Yawg Will

1 Black Lotus
3 Mox (UBG)
2 Polluted Delta
3 Flooded Strand
1 Island
3 Trop Island
3 USea
1 Volcanic Island
1 Library of Alexandria

Sideboard:
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Trickbind
3 Oxidize
1 Rebuild
2 Pyroblast
1 Berserk
1 Submerge
1 Threads of Disloyalty
1 Fire/Ice

Rebuild was out of fear of Chalice @ 1 & 2, never an issue.
Trickbind was to try against Storm/Hulk tricks, never an issue.
The Fire/Ice came in last second for an Echoing Truth.  I wasn't expecting Empty the warrens with Flash being "strictly better", and F/I can take out two slivers, making them need to attack twice, or take out random Mindcensors, Bobs etc. This ended up being a big mistake.

Round 1: I get paired up against Andy, who I find out after our match is aka Brassman, playing Storm EtW.  We're sitting next to Rich, with whom I reminisce a bit about playing and drafting with the... unique characters of the now defunct Ground Zero during our Middle/High School days.
Game 1:
I open with Duress, seeing an opposing Duress, Volcanic, Brainstorm and 3(!) REBs.  I nab the Brainstorm to keep his hand entirely reactive.
He does nothing of consequence and I duress again taking one of the REBs.
We play draw-go for a couple turns, I trot out some good blue spells for him to hit with his REBS.
Then when he tries to go offensive I Force his set-up spells leaving him to manaburn two turns in a row. Then I throw down a dryad, he never recovers.

Side: 2 Pyroblast for F/I, Stifle?
 
Game 2:
We both walk a Merchant Scroll into opposing REBs, I Misdirection his Ancestral and then dominate for a while, countering everything he plays that matters.... and then proceed to draw lands, Gush into more lands, and then draw more land.  At this point have every dual, used 2/5 fetches and 1/3 moxen.  I'm bluffing with 3 land and a Mox in hand when he plays 8 goblins, a two turn clock.  I go into topdeck mode and draw... a fetchland... a mox... Cunning Wish!! I go to my sideboard and remembered I had switched the Echoing Truth for a F/I, I lose.

Game 3:
I didn't take notes this game outside of lifetotals, but it looks like he got himself to 13 on fetches, burn and a Vamp Tutor before playing 6 goblins and beating my face.

A rather frustrating first round loss that I thought I had in the bag, but I take my lumps and move on.

Round 2: I forgot to write down the name of my amiable opponents, who played a unique BR Stax build w/Confidants, Leyline and Blood Moons post board.
Game1:
He starts with a Leyline out and throws down a Tangle Wire.
I have no first turn play, but I topdeck a Duress that looks at a Welder, Confidant and Wasteland... oh well.
He topdecks a Crucible and goes to work with the wasteland.
I get a dryad out, but it doesn't get big enough to go the distance under the Smokestack he plays next turn.

Side in 3 Leyline, 3 Oxidize for an Opt, Echoing Truth, Misd, Cunning Wish and two other cards.  I never see the leylines, but that ends up being a good thing.

Game 2:
He mulls to 4 (ouch), I keep my opening grip.
I start off with a Fastbond (no brokeness to go with though).
He lays Workshop, Trinisphere, but I have the Force.
I throw down Dr. Teeth.
He plays a Crucible and tries to get a Wasteland softlock down, but I untap and Oxidize.
P-tog swings in 6 times before I have the resources to go leathal, including pitching another Oxidize I had waiting in the wings.
He says "that was the most broken 4 I could have had", without the opening Force he would have had me locked by second turn.

Game 3:
He mulls to 6, fetches out a Badlands and passes.
I Duress, he Vamp Tutors with it on the stack and I snag a Powder Keg leaving a Bloodmoon that I had a Force for.
He top decks another Powder Keg, which I Force, I topdeck a Duress to snag his Bloodmoon.
He puts down a Chalice for 1 and passes, I start to draw before I remember I had left a Fastbond on top with Brainstorm, oops.
He is unable to recover from my early disruption and I get a Dryad and a 'Tog which go the distance, this time ending the game with a Force in hand looking for a target.

I pull out the version of Stax I had almost played that day and we chat for a few minutes on various builds and strategies against GAT.
I'm feeling happier as when my deck doesn't completely hose me I can do well (although this was of course a notably tier 2 deck).

Round 3: Zack in a mirror match
The table consisted of my match, Brassman, Rich Shay and their opponents.  It was a rather jovial atmosphere.
Zach mulls to 6, I'm forces to mull to 5.  Brassman has taken a slice of paper to avoid writing lifetotals on a post-it note, he starts to use the extra space on the full sized sheet to draw a cartoon, slightly-unstable looking, version on his opponent.
Zach opens with Black Lotus and a land into a Demonic Tutor and a Merchant Scroll getting ancestral.
I play Mox Jet, fetchland, crack, and also Merchant Scroll for Ancestral.  Brassman has duressed Nix from his opponents hand, getting a laugh from the table and a "I like Nix!" speech bubble on his cartoon opponent.  Rich remarks that this has been Nix's greatest moment, sacrificing itself so that good cards may live on.
I tune out the tables shenanigans as our game gets serious.  Zack drops a land and runs out the Ancestral, I force, he Brainstorms with it on the stack but doesn't find a Force of his own.  "I didn't think your last two cards would be Force and a blue card other than your Ancestral."
We draw go for 4 turns, I get lands and a mox.
He plays Psychatog and gets a couple of swing for ones in.
I Gush into another Gush and send out a Duress that he Mana Drains.
He gets in one more swing for one before I get my own Pyschatog.  Due to the card advantage swing from mulligans to our Ancestrals, his unresolved and mine resolved, my graveyard and hand had more food to offer the 'Tog.  I grin and proclaim, "Mine's bigger."
My next turn I draw a Merchant scroll and cost myself the match.  It wasn't necessarily a play error in the fact that you can point at me resolving any particular one thing and say that's what I did wrong (although I'll do that in a moment as well), it was more of a mistake in how I approached the gamestate at this point.  I immediately thought of Merchant Scroll -> Cunning Wish -> Berserk, but my 'Tog wasn't bigger than his by a margin large enough to make this lethal, so I turned to thinking of how to keep the upper hand in the game.  I scrolled up a Force of Will for this purpose.  Instead of going into a mode of defensive thought I should have acted as the aggressor or the match.
I could have Cunning Wished for a Pyroblast, Submerge or even a Fire/Ice, if he was going to do something silly like trigger all of his 'Tog buffs at the same time.
I could have scrolled up the Force as I did but then attacked, anything to put pressure on, instead I just tried to keep the current state, me ahead but not winning.
Next turn I get Library of Alexandria, which would go active next turn, winning the war of attrition I had been hoping to draw out, this prompted Zack into action, he REBs my 'Tog with Force backup for my Force.  This prompts me into realizing "hurr Merchant Scroll -> Cunning Wish -> REB", which I do when I draw a Merchant Scroll next turn.
He chains a bunch of draw into a Dryad, while I think of how best to set up a huge Will (both of our graveyards were larger than our libraries by a sizable margin at this point).  Zack tries to beat me to the punch with Merchant Scroll -> Mystical Tutor -> Yawg Will.  I respond on my turn with eot Mystical Tutor -> Regrowth -> Yawg Will (he had Duressed it @ the begining of the game), but he has the Force and I don't.  I lose.

Sideboard: 2 REB, Submerge, Threads of Disloyalty for an Opt a Dryad and 2 Stifle?
Game one took 37 minutes(!!) and I had blown it, I was somewhat frazzled at this point.
Game 2:
My notes on this game aren't all that great but I opened with Volcanic.  He had something insane with Mox, Mox, BLotus (agian!) Dryad, 'Tog, go.
I offer up a pathetic Brainstorm, go.
He goes for Scroll into Recall with a Force for my Force, I REB his 'Tog, but he goes lethal with Dryad next turn.  I'm still thinking about where I went wrong game one.

I'm pretty firmly in the bottom half at 1-2 but I came to play.  My match notes suffer the consequences.

Round 4: Corey in another mirror
Game 1:
I Duress a Gush and Stifle a fetch early, but some action with Regrowth->Ancestral keeps me out of reach.

Game 2:
He Duresses my Demonic Tutor when I Vampiric in response.
He gets a Dr. Teeth and I get a pair of Dryads and we start trading swings, he makes a game breaking mistake when he pitches his hand to make 'Tog lethal and my one card is Echoing Truth (he thought I was tapped out for some reason).

Game 3:
He duresses me early and sees a Submerge while Duressing something else.
Late game he's swinging with a 'Tog but can't go lethal because of my Submerge, despite him not having a Tropical I have the mana to hardcast it and get off a couple duress.
I attempt to REB the 'Tog, he has Force.  If I could have topdecked anything that would start me on a spellchain I could have Time Walked and won, no such luck, we run out of time and draw.

Last round I'm paired up against my friend John and we joke about who's going to knock the other into last place.  I let his URBana Fish Strip Mine my lands and Control Magic my guys so he'll give me a ride home.     And you didn't knock me quite into last! Ha!

Overall I had a good time playing Magic against some good opponents.  It was nice to put some faces to names of people I've been reading here on the site.  I didn't too horrible for my first Vintage event, and like Arnold I'll be back.

A big thanks to ELD for putting a ton of effort into this event (and those Time Walk proxies, damn nice job there ELD) and to everyone else that showed up.


edit for clarity

Congratulations on your split!

I was your round 3 opponent.  That wasn't quite my play mistake our monstrous game one, I'll be typing up a scrub-out report later to help me think through my several play mistakes of the day.

most original report award

edit: was dumb with url tag

Great explanations, thanks.

I think the question was more to the effect of, does the player playing Word of Command make decisions for the storm copies, ie. their targets, not their inception.

There's 2 more people you can chalk up as "were supposed to show up to this and couldn't, but wish they had gone anyways".  Next TMDO I'll be there.

Wait now I'm confused.  Doesn't that mean that if you take a creature with Control Magic or the like that it will 'regain' summoning sickness?  (and wow, this is actually relevant as my friend uses those with URBana)

Interesting build, I have been running something very similar and have some questions on your take. 

I'm currently running only 3 Chalice on the thought that dropping one @ 2 is vicious, but dropping it @ 0 is only truly effective turn one while on the play.  Beyond that I don't really find myself wanting to play them all that often. Also CIP counter effects & welder tricks don't play well together (also why I've switched Keg for EE as i-boi mentioned).  Are you siding any of them out while on the draw?  Do you find the 4th copy worth the slot?

Do you really find Balance to be pulling it's weight?

I have also cut Plats on the feeling that she wasn't really winning games, she just puts off losing.  Sure she allows for the occasional pull-out-of-your-ass-about-to-lose wins.  I'm running Karn here, he actively changes the game state, if you have the lock all your pieces can immediately start swinging, usually ending the game in the next one or two turns.  He's easier to hardcast, making a wall agianst early game dryads (or Tarmogoyfs of any size).  At worst he comes in on his fat metal ass and blows up any jewelry thats leaked through.  I guess this one could just be my aggressive play nature coming through my deck choices.

The biggest difference in our artifact listings is probably lock mechanisms we use, I have Tangle Wire + Orb of Dreams in lieu of your Smokestack + Crucible (I do run Crucible, just as a supplementary plan with waste-effects rather than primary)

Lastly a sideboard question: What do you side in Juggernaut / Time Walk for?  If I had to guess I'd guess leylines come out for REB/ItEoC agianst blue instant laden decks like GAT and for these against fishy type decks.

That ended up being a good amount longer than I set out for, thanks for the mini-report!

Jack and coke (just about the only time I drink soda).

Congrats on your top 4, and thanks for the great report Dave, even if you did hack the pairings software.



I lol'd at both of these here in my cubicle.

Would you mind going a bit more in depth on "it's purpose" in the deck? (since it is something you did not understand and now do)  At first glance it looks like it would be painful in a deck with so many one ofs.

Does Duplicant copy get the counters copied off an opposing dryad?  If not it seems a rather expensive form of removal for the cost (although the ability to cut off any Regrowth/ Yawg's Will shennanigans is a small bonus).  Maybe Cruel Edict would be a good sideboard card? (don't want to see MidD's on Diabolic or Chainer's)

As far as Merchant Scroll goes, It seems like it is huge in decks like GaT and the various Tendrils decks as it pumps the Dryad or storm count AND grabs a bomb.  In CS you don't have either of those things to grow and the only great card to tutor to grab is Ancestral, the other possible targets seem rather subpar to put tutor mana and tempo into.

Hello folks, I'm Taylor, a Computer Engineering Tech student at Northeast University here in Boston.

I played Magic for years back in grade school through High School with a break or two.  My first dose of cardboard crack was a starter of Ice Age back in '96 and my major stint in the game was Saga through Masques; with an outbreak for the Apocalypse - Odyssey era and several smaller outbreaks at various prereleases between then and now.  I've now jumped back into the game after a several year break, when an old friend busted out his old decks.

I was never really all that into Vintage (or Type 1 as we all called it back then), the power cards all seemed threatening and way out of my price range.   Extended and limited were my major scenes, with the occasional Standard tourney.  But now with all my old favorites rotated out of everything else (and the constant cost of Standard), I've dove into the eternal formats and haven't looked back. 

After a few weeks of fastidious reading through all the current articles and threads here on the forums, and throughout the rest of the vast interweb.  And plenty of time scheming my little schemes here behind the scenes, I'd like to start posting myself!

Looking forward to my time here on the boards, cheers.   

Edit:  I forgot to throw it out that those of you in the New England Meta will most likely see me around the local (as local as you can get to Boston at least...) Vintage tourney's, Myriad's and ELD's at the end/beginning of the month! I'll be the one with the Sox hat and glasses with my shiny new GaT deck takin' names!